EDL's Views Of Violence And Racism

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EDL's views of violence and racism Jul 19, 2010
It is worth posting this article written by the EDL, some people still seem to be laboring under the impression that the EDL is racist/Islamophobic or engages in violent protest against the police and counter-protesters.

Their words are pretty clear:

Years of inaction from our Government

The EDL was formed on the 27th of June, 2009 due to frustration at the lack of any significant action by the British Government against extremist Muslim preachers and organisations such as Islam4UK, Hizb ut Tahrir, the Islamic Forum of Europe, the Muslim Council of Britain - the list goes on.

Like many citizens of England, and indeed the United Kingdom, we have sat and waited for our Government to address these issues for many years, but they have done nothing of substance. Indeed, much of the funding that they have supposedly dedicated to the problem has actually gone to fund these preachers of hate, who are entitled to ‘anti-radicalisation’ funds as long as they do not explicitly advocate violence. This is unacceptable.

We have had enough of our Government ignoring both the problem itself and the cries for action from the majority of those in this country. Instead they promote a politically correct culture which panders to Jihadist preachers. Just a few examples from the many available will suffice to demonstrate the corrosive effect of this pandering on our lives. One of them, striking in a country which—although largely secular—is still officially Christian is that Nativity Plays have been banned at many schools so as not to offend Muslims. In addition, Halal meat, which many object to on grounds of animal cruelty, is served as an only option in many schools. A stark demonstration of how Englishness is marginalised in England itself is that St. George’s day is no longer recognised in many towns and cities, and the St. George flag is even banned by some councils, in case it offends. This capitulation to Muslim extremists is spreading across the country. We believe that it’s about time that people stood up for English culture against this Islamist assault and the political correctness that seeks to appease it. This is why, in addition to our other demonstrations, we will protest against any council or other local government organisation that seeks to tamper with traditional English celebrations, from Christmas to St. George’s day.

For years we have sat and watched these Jihadists threaten us with slogans such as "Behead those who insult Islam" and "UK, your 9/11 is coming" to name just two of the thousands of such threats made against our country and way of life in recent years.

The final straw came when the brave soldiers of the Royal Anglian Regiment returned to Luton from duty in Basra, Iraq. Many of them had lost friends serving their country, and of course a number of families have lost loved ones who served in the Regiment. When they arrived back in Luton, they were greeted by an absolutely disgusting display as Muslim extremists called them ‘child killers’ and ‘butchers’ and mocked their dead comrades. The police took more action against the patriotic people of Luton who confronted these vile specimens than they did against the extremists, who spew their hate against this country and our soldiers while living off benefits kindly provided for them by us, the taxpayers. This, then, led to the formation of the of the English Defence League.

We are ordinary, non-racist citizens of England and supporters who have had enough of being treated as second-class citizens to the Jihadis in our own country.

Are the English Defence League Racist?

Some organisations and media reports have branded the EDL as ‘racist,’ ‘fascist,’ ‘far-right,’ or even ‘Zionist.’ All of these accusations are flat out untrue. We take an actively anti-racist and anti-fascist stance. In addition, the EDL is non-political, taking no position on right-wing vs left-wing. We welcome members from all over the political spectrum, and with varying views on foreign policy, united against Islamic extremism and its influence on British life. Everyone from those whose ancestral roots are in pre-Roman Britain to immigrants just arrived yesterday will be welcomed into the EDL with open arms as long as they are willing to stand up with us for English values and against Islamist hate. Too many English are afraid to stand up and say "Enough!" because of the fear of being branded "racist.” We hope to change this.

So in short, we invite people of all races and faiths to join us in this campaign to awaken our sleeping Government to face up to and deal with the Jihad in our country, which threatens the very foundations of the freedoms won so dearly for us by past generations.

Organisation and Leadership of the English Defence League

The English Defence League is run by a network of organisers across England, and is partnered with the Welsh, Scottish, and Northern Irish Defense Leagues. Unfortunately, aside from a handful of named spokesmen, the names of these organisers cannot be published because of the threat to their lives and property from a colourful cast of characters including Islamic extremists, white supremacists, and misguided anti-fascists. Members of the English Defence League have received death threats from all three groups. This is also the reason why some members choose to cover their faces. We wish we lived in a society where that was not necessary, and hopefully one day we will.

Activities: Are the EDL Violent?

We have organised a series of peaceful protests across the country. Unfortunately, some of these have been disrupted by self-proclaimed yet clearly misguided anti-fascists and gangs of Muslim youth whipped up by the extremist preachers we oppose. These gangs have come armed and attacked our members, the police officers trying to protect us, and even random members of the public. We respect the police and the job they have to do, which is why we will not be returning to Birmingham for the foreseeable future. The Muslim gangs of the city are too violent, and we wish to avoid clashes and putting officers, our members and the public at risk.

We believe that most people in England, and indeed across the world, agree with our message, and that much of the opposition we have encountered is due to that message being distorted by the press and by organisations such as UAF.

We strongly protest at John Denham MP’s ignorant comparison of us to the British Union of Fascists. This is a complete distortion of both our message and our methods. Our response to John Denham can be found below.

If in any doubt, visit our forum and have a chat with some us, or come to one of our demonstrations and see for yourself ordinary English people standing up against preachers of hate.

http://www.englishdefenceleague.org/ind ... Itemid=131

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Re: EDL's views of violence and racism Jul 19, 2010
Wow, you are coming out in support of the far right group - well done - Bob will be proud. Next you'll be arguing that the Ku Klux Klan are just lovers of bedsheets and like bonfires made out of crosses. ;)

Ok, let's start with what the Jewish organisations in the UK say. Well, it appears they have more honour than Bob and his minions :

Jewish leaders condemn the English Defence League
Posted by Daniel Trilling - 03 June 2010 17:55

They accuse the far-right group of “bigotry” and “Islamophobia”.

The Jewish Chronicle reports that the English Defence League has established a Jewish division. The far right, anti-Islam protest group, whose violent nature was exposed by the Guardian last week (and covered by the NS here), has professed support for Israel in the past and is now urging British Jews to "lead the counter-jihad fight in England".

But its advances have been swiftly rebuffed by Jewish leaders. Mark Gardner, communications director for the Community Security Trust, told the Chronicle:

The EDL intimidate entire Muslim communities, causing tension and fear. Jews ought to remember that we have long experience of being on the receiving end of this kind of bigotry.

Jon Benjamin, chief executive of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, said:
The EDL's supposed "support" for Israel is empty and duplicitous. It is built on a foundation of Islamophobia and hatred which we reject entirely.

Sadly, we know only too well what hatred for hatred's sake can cause. The overwhelming majority will not be drawn in by this transparent attempt to manipulate a tense political conflict.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2010/06/jewish-bigotry-islamophobia

And here's what Haaretz had to say about the group that you and Bob are supporting (already posted in the other thread):

shafique wrote:
Diaspora Jews beware: Stay away from bigots, no matter how friendly they seem

By Miriam Shaviv

Israel needs friends in Europe, but there are some friends that it could do without.

In June, the English Defence League, a thuggish anti-Muslim group known for its raucous (and sometimes violent) street protests, launched a Jewish division, attracting at least a handful of Jews among the 500 fans on its “Jewish Division” Facebook page.
..

While the EDL may be a fringe group, its embrace of Israel activism is part of a growing trend. Over the past few years, a string of politicians and factions on Europe’s far right, particularly those with anti-Muslim agendas, have taken to expressing strong support for the Jewish state.

The most prominent example is Dutch politician Geert Wilders...

...

While more straight-talk about immigration and extremism would be welcome in both countries, Wilders and the EDL go much further. Though both claim otherwise, they seem unable (or unwilling) to distinguish between Islamists — radicals with a political agenda — and plain old Muslims. On a continent in which a large Muslim presence is now a fact of life, such sweeping antagonism does nothing to solve real problems and serves only to inflame interreligious and interethnic tensions.

... When it comes to the far-right, however, Jews have plenty of reasons to be wary.

For starters, it’s worth recalling that those on the far-right often have their own — usually far-from-admirable — motives for wrapping themselves in the Israeli flag.

...
Meanwhile, the EDL’s interest in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict seems to be mostly about goading its Muslim foes.

...
Israel simply cannot afford to be linked to real bigots, no matter how friendly they appear to be.


http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/diaspora-jews-beware-stay-away-from-bigots-no-matter-how-friendly-they-seem-1.299009



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Shafique
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Re: EDL's views of violence and racism Jul 19, 2010
But hey, let's also see what really happens when undercover teams visit the EDL

The EDL claims it is a peaceful and non-racist organisation only concerned with protesting against "militant Islam". However, over the last four months the Guardian has attended its demonstrations and witnessed racism, violence and virulent Islamophobia.


English Defence League: Inside the violent world of Britain's new far right

Undercover Guardian investigation reveals plan by English Defence League to hit racially sensitive areas in attempt to provoke disorder over summer
Matthew Taylor
guardian.co.uk, Friday 28 May 2010 23.22 BST


The English Defence League is planning a series of demonstrations this summer. Warning: video contains very strong language Link to this video

MPs expressed concern tonight after it emerged that far-right activists are planning to step up their provocative street campaign by targeting some of the UK's highest-profile Muslim communities, raising fears of widespread unrest this summer.

Undercover footage shot by the Guardian reveals the English Defence League, which has staged a number of violent protests in towns and cities across the country this year, is planning to "hit" Bradford and the London borough of Tower Hamlets as it intensifies its street protests.

Senior figures in the coalition government were briefed on the threat posed by EDL marches this week. Tomorrow up to 2,000 EDL supporters are expected to descend on Newcastle for its latest protest.

MPs said the group's decision to target some of the UK's most prominent Muslim communities was a blatant attempt to provoke mayhem and disorder. "This group has no positive agenda," said the Bradford South MP, Gerry Sutcliffe. "It is an agenda of hate that is designed to divide people and communities. We support legitimate protest but this is not legitimate, it is designed to stir up trouble. The people of Bradford will want no part of it."

The English Defence League, which started in Luton last year, has become the most significant far-right street movement in the UK since the National Front in the 1970s. A Guardian investigation has identified a number of known rightwing extremists who are taking an interest in the movement – from convicted football hooligans to members of violent rightwing splinter groups.

Thousands of people have attended its protests – many of which have descended into violence and racist and Islamophobic chanting. Supporters are split into "divisions" spread across the UK and as many as 3,000 people are attracted to its protests.

The group also appears to be drawing support from the armed forces. Its online armed forces division has 842 members and the EDL says many serving soldiers have attended its demonstrations. A spokeswoman for the EDL, whose husband is a serving soldier, said: "The soldiers are fighting Islamic extremism in Afghanistan and Iraq and the EDL are fighting it here … Not all the armed forces support the English Defence League but a majority do."

Following the British National party's poor showing in this month's local and national elections anti-racist campaigners say some far-right activists may be turning away from the ballot box and returning to violent street demonstrations for the first time in three decades.

Nick Lowles, from Searchlight, said: "What we are seeing now is the most serious, most dangerous, political phenomenon that we have had in Britain for a number of years. With EDL protests that are growing week in, week out there is a chance for major disorder and a major political shift to the right in this country."

In undercover footage shot by Guardian Films, EDL spokesman Guramit Singh says its Bradford demonstration "will be huge". He adds: "The problem with Bradford is the security threat, it is a highly populated Muslim area. They are very militant as well. Bradford is a place that has got to be hit."

Singh, who was speaking during an EDL demonstration in Dudley in April, said the organisation would also be targeting Tower Hamlets.

A spokesman for the EDL confirmed it would hold a demonstration in Bradford on 28 August because the city was "on course to be one of the first places to become a no-go area for non-Muslims". The EDL has already announced demonstrations in Cardiff and Dudley.

The former Home Office minister Phil Woolas said: "This is a deliberate attempt by the EDL at division and provocation, to try and push young Muslims into the hands of extremists, in order to perpetuate the divide. It is dangerous."

The EDL claims it is a peaceful and non-racist organisation only concerned with protesting against "militant Islam". However, over the last four months the Guardian has attended its demonstrations and witnessed racism, violence and virulent Islamophobia.

During the election campaign David Cameron described the EDL as "dreadful people" and said the organisation would "always be under review".

A spokesman for the Home Office said that although the government was committed to restoring the right to "non-violent protest … violence and intimidation are wholly unacceptable and the police have powers to deal with individuals who commit such acts. The government condemns those who seek to spread hatred."

He added: "Individual members of EDL – like all members of the public – are of course subject to the law, and all suspected criminal offences will be robustly investigated and dealt with by the police."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/2 ... estigation

Oh dear, loons coming to the defence of loons - birds of a feather do flock together!
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Re: EDL's views of violence and racism Jul 19, 2010
And this from the Daily Mail (right wing paper!) - it shows that the EDL are loons indeed, no wonder eh supports them!

This is England: Masked like terrorists, members of Britain's newest and fastest - growing protest group intimidate a Muslim woman on a train en route to a violent demo
By BILLY BRIGGS
Last updated at 11:01 PM on 2nd January 2010

Image
Their aim? To drive out Islamic extremism. Their weapon? The thugs of Britain's most violent football gangs

Some of the most violent football hooligans in Britain head towards Manchester to support a march by the burgeoning English Defence League (EDL), while a woman dressed in a black hijab appears intimidated
On Platform One at Bolton station a mob of around 100 men punch the air in unison. The chant goes up: 'Muslim bombers, off our streets, Muslim bombers off our streets...'
Their voices echo loudly and more men suddenly appear; startled passengers move aside. The group march forward waving St George Cross flags and holding up placards. The throng of men around me applaud. A train heading for Glasgow draws up on the opposite platform and the men turn as one, bursting into song: 'Engelaand, Engelaand, Engelaand.'
Some of the men hide behind balaclavas, others wear black hoodies. A few speak on mobile phones, their hands pressed against their ears to block out the cacophony.
'It's already kicking off in Manchester. This could be tasty,' shouts one. These are some of the most violent football hooligans in Britain and today they have joined together in an unprecedented show of strength. Standing shoulder to shoulder are notorious gangs - or 'firms' as they are known - such as Cardiff City's Soul Crew, Bolton Wanderers' Cuckoo Boys and Luton Town's Men In Gear.
The gathering is remarkable, as on a match day these men would be fighting each other. But it is politics that has drawn them together. They are headed for Manchester to support a march by the burgeoning English Defence League.
The police are here in force, too. 'Take that mask off,' barks a sergeant to one young man. He does so immediately but protests: 'Why are they allowed to wear burkas in public but we're not allowed to cover our faces?'
'Just do what you're told,' the policeman snaps back.

An EDL demonstrator is arrested at Piccadilly Gardens in Manchester in October
'It's always the same these days. One rule for them and another for us. I'm sick of this country,' a man standing next to me says in a West Country accent.
He draws on a cigarette then flicks it to the ground in disgust. He starts to complain again but when the tannoy announces the arrival of the train to Manchester Piccadilly he raises his hands above his head and starts another favourite.
'Rule Britannia, Britannia rule the waves... Britons never, never, never...' His companions join in. As the train comes to a halt the crowd surges forward.
The carriages are almost full so the men pack themselves into the aisles followed by policemen speaking into radios. A group of lads drinking beer at a table eye the new contingent warily.
One man wearing a baseball cap clocks their fear and reassures them.
'It's all right lads, nothing to worry about. We're protesting against radical Islam. Come and join us.'
Further up the carriage another bursts into song.
'We had joy, we had fun, we had Muslims on the run,' he starts up. Nobody joins in and a couple of his mates tell him to 'shut up' as they point to a woman dressed in a black hijab sitting at a table.
A man standing close to her is masked and holds a placard. It has a picture of a Muslim woman crying with red blood streaming down her face. 'Sharia law oppresses women!' the slogan reads.
The rise of the English Defence League has been rapid. Since its formation at the start of the summer the group has organised nearly 20 major protests in Britain's cities, including London, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Luton, Nottingham, Glasgow and Swansea.
Its leaders are professional and articulate and they claim that the EDL is a peaceful, non-racist organisation.

But having spent time with them, there is evidence that this movement has a more disturbing side. There is talk of the need for a 'street army', and there are links with football hooligans and evidence that violent neo-Nazi groups including Combat 18, Blood and Honour and the British Freedom Fighters have been attending demos.

Violence has erupted at most of the EDL's demonstrations. In total, nearly 200 people have been arrested and an array of weapons has been seized, including knuckledusters, a hammer, a chisel and a bottle of bleach.
As the EDL gains support across the UK, Muslims have already been targeted in unprovoked attacks. In the worst incident, a mob of 30 white and black youths is said to have surrounded Asian students near City University in central London and attacked them with metal poles, bricks and sticks while shouting racist abuse. Three people - two students and a passer-by who tried to intervene - were stabbed.
Following the Manchester protest, when 48 people were arrested during street violence, the Bolton Interfaith Council Executive issued a stark warning that race relations were under threat and Communities Secretary John Denham compared the EDL to Oswald Mosley's Union of British Fascists, who ran amok in the Thirties. In response to these fears, the National Extremism Tactical Coordination Unit, a countrywide police team set up to combat domestic extremism, has been investigating the EDL.
'The concern to me is how groups like this, either willingly or unwillingly, allow themselves to be exploited by very extreme right-wing groups like the National Front and the British Freedom Fighters,' Metropolitan Police chief Sir Paul Stephenson has said.


I had met the English Defence League for the first time in Luton three weeks before the Manchester demonstration. After several calls, key members agreed to talk on the condition that I did not identify them. We met at a derelict building close to Luton town centre. Eleven men turned up. All wore balaclavas, as they often do to hide their identities, and most had black EDL hoodies with 'Luton Division' written on the back. They'd made placards bearing slogans such as 'Ban the Burka'.

The group's self-proclaimed leader, who goes by the pseudonym Tommy Robinson, did most of the talking. A father of two, Robinson explained the background to the rise of the movement.

'For more than a decade now there's been tension in Luton between Muslim youths and whites. We all get on fine - black, white, Indian, Chinese... Everyone does, in fact, apart from these Muslim youths who've become extremely radicalised since the first Gulf War. This is because preachers of hate live in Luton and have been recruiting for radical Islamist groups for years. Our Government does nothing about them so we decided that we'd start protesting.'

Image
EDL demonstrators in Birmingham in September

Robinson could barely conceal his anger as he explained that the spark for him had been the sight of radical Muslims protesting when soldiers paraded through the town on their regiment's return from Afghanistan in May.

Following the incident Robinson set up a group called United People of Luton and, after linking up with a Birmingham-based organisation called British Citizens Against Muslim Extremists and another called Casuals United (largely made up of former football hooligans), they realised there was potential for a national movement.

'We have nothing against Muslims, only those who preach hatred. They are traitors who should be hanged and we'll keep taking to the streets until the Government kicks them out.'

More than 100 divisions have been set up across Britain and a careful co-ordination means the EDL is becoming efficient and a potential catch-all for every far-right organisation in Britain.

Robinson admits that he has attended BNP meetings in the past. Another prominent member and administrator of Luton EDL's Facebook group is Davy Cooling, a BNP member. Sean Walsh, an activist for the

EDL in Luton, is a member of the BNP's Bedfordshire Facebook group.

Even within the EDL there are concerns over links to extremists. A former member called Paul Ray recently claimed that the group had been hijacked by BNP activists, including a man from Weston-super-Mare, Chris Renton, who helped set up the EDL website. Ironically, Ray himself has extremist contacts, including a German former neo-Nazi who is friends with Northern Ireland Loyalist Johnny 'Mad Dog' Adair.

Casuals United was the brainchild of Jeff Marsh, a convicted football hooligan from Cardiff City's Soul Crew, one of the most feared gangs in Britain. Marsh operates behind the scenes, orchestrating activities with both Casuals United and the Welsh Defence League, a sister group of the EDL.

The public face of Casuals United is another Welshman called Mickey Smith. An avowed football hooligan, he is banned from Cardiff City's football ground. Together, Marsh and Smith organise the 50 or so gangs actively recruiting members across the UK.

The EDL insists it is separate from Casuals United, but dig a little and it becomes clear they operate hand-in-hand. Joel Titus is a cocky but politically naive 18-year-old Arsenal fan of mixed race. He tells me that the EDL youth division he runs has over 300 members across the UK.

'We want to hit every town and city in Britain,' he says.

Titus became involved with the movement through Casuals United. And according to anti-fascism magazine Searchlight, his role is to recruit football hooligans.

He sticks to the 'peaceful movement' mantra but a text I later receive from him ahead of an EDL demo in London reveals his involvement with the hooligans. It reads: 'Right lads, the "unofficial" meet for the 31st (London) is going to be 12 o'clock at The Hole In The Wall pub just outside Waterloo Station. I will be there just before that. Remember lads were (sic) going as Casuals Utd and if you could obtain a poppy to wear it would make us look good even if we are kicking off. lol. Cheers lads. Joel "Arsenal" Titus.'

EDL members meet at a rendezvous pub before travelling to Manchester

Alarmingly, the EDL is becoming more sophisticated and those orchestrating its activities at the top are far more astute than its foot soldiers. I meet two of the EDL's key figures in a Covent Garden pub - a respectable looking man called Alan Lake, and a man who goes by the moniker 'Kinana'.

Lake is a 45-year-old computer expert from Highgate, north London who runs a far-right website called Four Freedoms. This summer he contacted the EDL and offered to both fund and advise the movement.
'Our leaders in this country no longer represent us,' he says.

Lake's aim is to unite the 'thinkers' and those prepared to take to the streets. He describes this marriage as 'the perfect storm coming together'. Lake says that street violence is not desirable but sometimes inevitable.
'There are issues when you are dealing with football thugs but what can we do?'

He criticises fascist organisations, however, and says he will only support the EDL so long as it doesn't associate with the BNP. When I ask about extremists hijacking the movement, he says: 'There are different groups infiltrating and trying to cause rifts by one means or another, or trying to waylay the organisation to different agendas. The intention is to exclude those groups and individuals.'

These men are outwardly intelligent and their political nous combined with the brawn of the casuals makes them a quasi-political force.

Britain's neo-Nazis realise this. For Kevin Watmough, leader of the neo-Nazi British People's Party and a former member of the National Front, the rise of the EDL is reminiscent of the Seventies.
'The protests remind me of the National Front marches, but I wouldn't march with the EDL because they have blacks as supporters,' he told me.
But other neo-Nazis have joined EDL demos. These include members of Combat 18 and the British Freedom Fighters, who later posted videos of themselves on the internet.

Watmough lives in Bradford and can recall the 2001 riots, which came about as a result of tensions between whites and Muslims. Bradford, along with Oldham, another tinderbox northern city that witnessed riots in 2001, is a stated target for the EDL and Casuals United in 2010. Tension is likely here and in other towns where the EDL is also promoting spontaneous flash demos and the occupation of building sites for new mosques.

Professor Matthew Goodwin, an expert on far-right organisations who has advised the Home Office, says that the police are right to monitor the EDL and to take them seriously.
'(The EDL) is now well-organised and not just a minor irritant. It has become a rallying point for a number of different groups and to have them marching through sensitive areas is a major concern.'
Communities Minister John Denham has also condemned the rise of the EDL: 'If you look at the types of demonstrations they have organised, the language used and the targets chosen, it looks clear that it's a tactic designed to provoke, to get a response. It's designed to create violence. And we must all make sure this doesn't happen.'

[url]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive ... eague.html[/url]
shafique
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Re: EDL's views of violence and racism Jul 19, 2010
Oh the irony

dubai-politics-talk/hamas-view-holocaust-t41923.html

What did Desert say about the myopia of some posters ?

LoL.

Interestingly, you said this about Hamas' history of holocaust denial:

Well, I agree that it is easy to get quotes that contradict what Hamas says above. The point is why should we believe the quotes you believe and not believe what the Minister states categorically?


Suddenly you resort to posting 'snippets' yourself.

Oh well, I (seriously) didn't expect you to see the irony of my thread.
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Re: EDL's Views Of Violence And Racism Jul 19, 2010
Ah, good come back - not.

What's the matter - a bit embarrassed that Jews in the UK rebuffed the bigots that your Guru and you are embracing and 'applauding'?

Surely you don't really think loon-central knows more about these racists than the Jewish Chronicle, Daily Mail etc etc?

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Re: EDL's views of violence and racism Jul 19, 2010
So far, you've only posted snippets.

But I'm happy to show that the EDL's official website categorically contradicts your belief.
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Re: EDL's Views Of Violence And Racism Jul 19, 2010
Huh?

New Statesman article, in full, Guardian undercover report - in full, Daily Mail investigation - in full. Haaretz article I snipped, but linked to full article.

You need to look up what 'snippets' means young one.

The EDL website invites people to join their marches etc - that is what the journalists did and reported back. Fail. (Getting to be a habit of yours).


Edit - and as for Hamas' categoric, clear and complete statement about their stance about the Holocaust and the quotes you presented in response - this has been dealt with here:
dubai-politics-talk/hamas-view-holocaust-t41923.html#p337098

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Re: EDL's views of violence and racism Jul 19, 2010
Yes, snippets vs the official stance of the EDL.

What's the matter ?

I quote reuters (in full) saying that Hamas officials in Gaza deny the holocaust and you call that snippets.

LoL.

Now you're claiming that some articles you posted which contradict the official line of the EDL aren't really snippets - but media articles which contradict what one Hamas official says are snippets.

(Again, don't worry - I don't expect you to understand the irony if it's spelled out to you......in crayon)

I figured you for a jack-boot type, not a flip-flopper.
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Re: EDL's Views Of Violence And Racism Feb 06, 2011
Bump - for those who actually want to believe the EDL and ignore the evidence (notably the Guardian's piece above).

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Re: EDL's views of violence and racism Feb 06, 2011
Well, if you have any clear statements from EDL members which contradict the EDL's mission statement, I'd be happy to condemn their comments and refer them to the EDL's official stance.
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Re: EDL's views of violence and racism Feb 07, 2011
Image

"I see absolutely no evidence that the Jewish Council, the Guardian, Daily Mail and David Cameron etc are correct. I only believe what the EDL spin machine tells me"
:mrgreen:
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Re: EDL's views of violence and racism Feb 07, 2011
Holocaust Denier.gif
The disbeliever
Holocaust Denier.gif (41.34 KiB) Viewed 2520 times


“I see absolutely no evidence that the internet footage of the Hamas leadership declaring themselves Holocaust Deniers is in fact believable! I only believe what their Propagandist tells me on the last Friday of the Month and only if he’s wearing his hat of sincerity.”

"Ooh and I also choose to ignore the difference between a statement from a Propagandist and a published Mission Statement on the official website of a Human Rights Organisation, because it suits my argument to do so”

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: EDL's Views Of Violence And Racism Feb 07, 2011
Fail.

(But a nice attempt at smoke and mirrors, though)

Yes, let us please compare Memri specials and snippets about supposed Holocaust denials by Hamas with the evidence provided here about the EDL thugs.

When it comes to Hamas, I have no problem in condemning them when they carry out violent acts, or if they actually deny the Holocaust. You guys seem to have major problems in accepting the evidence about what the EDL actually are and do. When it comes to Hamas, I'm just quoting what they actually SAY with what you believe they SAY. Here were are comparing what the EDL say vs what they actually do/ARE. Spot the difference? ;)

I'll welcome any evidence you can produce that the EDL aren't the thugs the reports say they are - i.e. that they can live up to what their spin machine tells you to believe. Please reconcile the spin with the footage of EDL facists fighting with police etc and giving Nazi salutes. Then tell me with a straight face why we should believe what they say regarding violence and racism?

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
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Re: EDL's views of violence and racism Feb 07, 2011
No Shaf, you should write FAIL, in uppercase like your lapdog does, you see it has more of a dramatic effect!

:lol: :lol:
Dillon
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Re: EDL's Views Of Violence And Racism Feb 07, 2011
Thanks for the advice. Glad we're both laughing. :)

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
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Re: EDL's views of violence and racism Feb 07, 2011
Here were are comparing what the EDL say vs what they actually do/ARE. Spot the difference?


Prohibiting UN run schools in Gaza from teaching the Holocaust of course wouldn't be a part of your challenge.

And shafique, if you don't like Memri, why don't you insist on us using a Muslim website that tracks incitement in the Muslim/Arab media?

Surely there are these Muslim groups which do the job of Memri without any of the 'specials', right?

Oh, and I wonder if your objection to Memri isn't the small percentage of videos with translation errors, but the 90+% which accurately record hate and bigotry in the Arab/Muslim world?

'Moderates' for change, indeed.
event horizon
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