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To avoid, cluttering up the thread in the general chat area, I am opening this thread to talk about capital punishment. So this is obviously an ongoing debate that still has no conclusive arguments.

So here is my take on the subject. As I mentioned in the other thread that the reason for the existence of capital punishment IMO are as follows.

1. To bring justice to the victim (Justice as being defined as the "quality of being just or fair") - However justice is a more subjective idea in the eyes of the victim or the victim's associates (meaning that the victim not necessarily agrees with the courts decision) , Religion clearly defines how justice is supposed to be implemented, but the modern justice system is far from it.

2. To serve as a deterrent - if people see the head of the criminal roll around the floor after it is being chopped off, safe to say it would be a traumatic experience for the one who witnesses that. So in this context I define it as a deterrent

3. To control the prison population - Sounds harsh, But this point I am just speculating

Well thats how I see it, so feel free to counter my views in an objective fashion

zubber wrote:To bring justice to the victim(Justice as being defined as the "quality of being just or fair") - However justice is a more subjective idea in the eyes of the victim or the victim's associates (meaning that the victim not necessarily agrees with the courts decision) ,

Very strange reasoning

zubber wrote:Religion clearly defines how justice is supposed to be implemented

Extremely scary!

Flying Dutchman wrote:Very strange reasoning

OK what I meant was, It seems that perhaps the criminal not necessarily gets the sentence which he deserved (based on the victims (or their associates) perception. For example (i will look for the link of this story), There was case of this guy in latin america whose son was brutally murdered infront of his eyes, But the murderers walked away free with only a light sentence. So the victims dad in order to hunt them down joined a criminal gang to hunt them down. This story was going on for more than 15 years but he was unable to find the murders.

I know I am citing only one case, but I am sure there are many victims who are not happy with sentence of the criminals. I assume rather.

Flying Dutchman wrote:Extremely scary!

Well that would be how one would view the guidelines, For example the eye for an eye principle IMHO does sound pretty fair.. no ?

zubber wrote:It seems that perhaps the criminal not necessarily gets the sentence which he deserved (based on the victims (or their associates) perception.

Or the other way around. Its a very slippery road to let victims decide the punishment.

zubber wrote:Well that would be how one would view the guidelines

Which guidelines? Religious ones?

zubber wrote:For example the eye for an eye principle IMHO does sound pretty fair.. no ?

Not literally, no.

Flying Dutchman wrote:Or the other way around. Its a very slippery road to let victims decide the punishment.

True it would require a professional to properly interpret the laws and then administer the right punishment, but if the current legislative systems around the world if based on ethical guidelines, should account for the satisfaction of the victim

Flying Dutchman wrote:Which guidelines? Religious ones?

Yes, if someone is not familiar the guidelines provided by religions (whatever they maybe), then it would be a shock to the one who learns of them , the strange thing is that the legislative systems all derive their core guidelines from religions, yet they seem to be ineffective

Flying Dutchman wrote:Not literally, no.

Well the eye for an eye principle is an attempt at fairness , perhaps before the existence of the modern day legislative systems, that was the principle , perhaps

Watch this

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/kill-human-being/

Also watch National Geographics. Inside Texas Death Row

desertdudeshj wrote:Watch this

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/kill-human-being/

Also watch National Geographics. Inside Texas Death Row

I stopped watching after his statement that he thinks that killing people as humanely as possible and most people would agree on that. The fact that they are less than human is reason enough for them to feel some kind of pain when executed. Kill them with kindness?? What about the families and loved ones who will live with the pain of the deliberate death of someone they loved?

Those who were found guilty of murder either through solid evidence or admission/confess to the act(s), certainly weren't thinking about killing their victim(s) "as humanely as possible".

They should find a way to inject these animals with something that will burn them from inside, make their ears bleed, make their eyes bleed and pop out, make their brain feel like its being squeezed in a vice, until they die. Why do they deserve mercy when their victims weren't given any?? There is a reason to kill them, and there is no excuse or reasoning in the world that could justify them killing someone.

Bora Bora wrote:Those who were found guilty of murder either through solid evidence or admission/confess to the act(s), certainly weren't thinking about killing their victim(s) "as humanely as possible".

They should find a way to inject these animals with something that will burn them from inside, make their ears bleed, make their eyes bleed and pop out, make their brain feel like its being squeezed in a vice, until they die. Why do they deserve mercy when their victims weren't given any?? There is a reason to kill them, and there is no excuse or reasoning in the world that could justify them killing someone.

Darling,
Have you watched "The Life of David Gail" with beloved Kevin Spacey or may be remember the recent case of one black guy who proved not guilty according to genetic test after spending about 30 years in prison?

I should have added that watch till the end, where some of those exact sentiments are voiced.

Red Chief wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:Those who were found guilty of murder either through solid evidence or admission/confess to the act(s), certainly weren't thinking about killing their victim(s) "as humanely as possible".

They should find a way to inject these animals with something that will burn them from inside, make their ears bleed, make their eyes bleed and pop out, make their brain feel like its being squeezed in a vice, until they die. Why do they deserve mercy when their victims weren't given any?? There is a reason to kill them, and there is no excuse or reasoning in the world that could justify them killing someone.

Darling,
Have you watched "The Life of David Gail" with beloved Kevin Spacey or may be remember the recent case of one black guy who proved not guilty according to genetic test after spending about 30 years in prison?

Hi Cupcake. I will certainly watch the movie. Looooooove Kevin Spacey.

I recall the case you refer to. If you notice I said solid evidence or admission/confession. There was no solid evidence against that man and thanks to geneic testing it proved his innocence. Fact is 30 years ago blacks were railroaded and didn't get a proper defense. Back then it was always "cut and dry". If black, has to be guilty.

The American justice system is all about what you can afford. This guy probably got some kid right out of law school or couldn't get a job as a lawyer in the corporate world, and as a result the guy got a lousy defense. May of the public defenders are overworked and overloaded. Probably had the same justice served to him upon his appeal(s). Thank God someone believed him. Rights groups definitely serve a purpose for those who cannot afford proper representation.

Have stated this on the other thread before but I don't agree with capital punishment. I don't think it will act as a deterrent and there are just too many ways that the justice system can get it wrong as they have done in the past. I think its ludicrous to try and use capital punishment to lower prison populations - prisons are full of criminals and not just murderers.

^^^
Majority of people on death row are still blacks.

Watch The other documentry I listed, Inside death row texas

desertdudeshj wrote:^^^
Majority of people on death row are still blacks.

Watch The other documentry I listed, Inside death row texas

Once a black, always a black

desertdudeshj wrote:Watch this

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/kill-human-being/

Excellent documentary DDS, Goes over all the standard execution methods as well as cites the discovery of a Hypoxia Induced Death via a nonlethal gas, I can see how victims in of the crime would not consider it fair if the the criminal dies in a painless manner in a state of euphoria.

It also interesting to note that this capital punishment issue is divided over the "humane" aspect of the execution, but what I dont get is , the sentiments of the victims is not taken into consideration to sway the debate in favor or execution ...

-- Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:21 pm --

Bethsmum wrote:Once a black, always a black

Well the color of the skin is defined by a substance called melanin, the more the substance the darker the skin, melanin is also responsible for protection from the harmful radiation of the sun, maybe u could elaborate on your statement ?

-- Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:23 pm --

JoeTGF wrote:Have stated this on the other thread before but I don't agree with capital punishment. I don't think it will act as a deterrent and there are just too many ways that the justice system can get it wrong as they have done in the past. I think its ludicrous to try and use capital punishment to lower prison populations - prisons are full of criminals and not just murderers.

Yes I see your point, but the application of execution is also to pacify the victims, who undoubtedly would kill the criminal if the justice system do anything about it ?

-- Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:24 pm --

desertdudeshj wrote:^^^
Majority of people on death row are still blacks.

Watch The other documentry I listed, Inside death row texas

from my understanding, it appears that the southern states are very racist actually, their have been more than one instance of racially induced tensions in those states, Let me see what I can find to debate over

-- Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:26 pm --

Bora Bora wrote:The American justice system is all about what you can afford.

Indeed, this is a problem with the american justice system, but I am not sure if other developed nations also have this same problem ?

The emotional person in me says they should be made to suffer as much as possible while they gasp their last breath but the rational person in me says it should be done humanely and as painlessly as possible, as the condemned is paying the ultimate price for his crimes.

desertdudeshj wrote:The emotional person in me says they should be made to suffer as much as possible while they gasp their last breath but the rational person in me says it should be done humanely and as painlessly as possible, as the condemned is paying the ultimate price for his crimes.

The difference between going out in pain or going out humanely has the same result (ultimate price) - death. So why not inflict a bit of pain, or a heap of pain, to give them a taste of what their victim went through, as well as the survivors??? Dead is dead.

I still disagree, for me knowing your exact time of death and most probably being on death row for years on end is punishment enough.

Dead is dead is not a convincing enough argument for me. What if the convicted shot someone in the back of the head and the victim died instantly and din't even see it comming. Then what do you do.

Revenge really does not solve anything other than temporary relief and cloursure, there are many cases where the familes have even forgiven the convicted and even petition for theor sentences to be overturned.

The whole point is for justice to be served. Taking someones life away is punishment enough let alone bring cruelty into it which has no judicial merit at all.

Here is a classic example of how the relations of the victims would not be satisfied

S.African serial killer gets 13 life sentences

JOHANNESBURG – South Africa's "sugar cane killer" has received the maximum 13 life sentences for the murder of 13 women.
.
.
Thozamile Taki, 36, was convicted Dec. 23 on 13 counts of murder and robbery..... he was also sentenced to 208 years for the robbery charges.....
.
.
This nation ...the world's highest crime rates, with about 50 murders per day.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110119/ap_ ... Fuc2VyaQ--

First of there is something wrong with the judicial system to give "Consecutive Life Sentences" , Does the law consider humans to outlive their 60 to 70 year period ? Are they hoping that the convicted might be allowed to defer his sentencing due to good behavior ? What about the relations of the victims who want to see this DEVIL mutilated?

desertdudeshj wrote:I still disagree, for me knowing your exact time of death and most probably being on death row for years on end is punishment enough.

Dead is dead is not a convincing enough argument for me. What if the convicted shot someone in the back of the head and the victim died instantly and din't even see it comming. Then what do you do.

Revenge really does not solve anything other than temporary relief and cloursure, there are many cases where the familes have even forgiven the convicted and even petition for theor sentences to be overturned.

The whole point is for justice to be served. Taking someones life away is punishment enough let alone bring cruelty into it which has no judicial merit at all.

I'm not convincing you of anything. It's called: my opinion!!! Or am I not allow to have one???

Do you really believe that a parent whose child was murdered will "forget" the person who did it over time?? I guess they can also "forget" the child they lost. Makes alot of sense to me.

OK, so if dead was instantaneous, that should be a consideration.

And yes, keep them in jail at the expense of the taxpayer. If that's the case, then castrate them and let them become a "prison bicycle". Everyone who isn't castrated can take a ride on them.

LOL, yes so your in favour of bringing back the hung, drawn and quartered method of execution.

desertdudeshj wrote:LOL, yes so your in favour of bringing back the hung, drawn and quartered method of execution.

I would like to think that is the Chivas that is clouding your thinking process, but its probably more likely that you are off your medication. Stop putting it off and take your meds!!

Ah ok I see its back to being your regular self again, I knew you couldn't take more than a few hours of being normal, LOL.

Anyways

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_dr ... _quartered

Here is an example of why the death penalty should not exist. A 20 yr old Taiwanese soldier was charged and convicted of killing a 5 year old girl and executed in 2007. Now the Taiwanese authorities have a man in custody who says he did it and even confessed to doing it two months before they arrested the guy they accused and killed. Sloppy and biased police work happens far too often and that is why ultimately it is dangerous and unethical to have the death penalty.

http://focustaiwan.tw/ShowNews/WebNews_ ... &Type=aTOD

And here are two reasons why the death penalty should exist.



The Moors murders were a series of crimes that shocked Britain when they first came to light.
Ian Brady and Myra Hindley murdered four children during 1963 and 1964 and buried their bodies on Saddleworth Moor, near Manchester in northern England.

Lesley Ann Downey, 10, John Kilbride, 12, Keith Bennett, 12, and Pauline Reade, 16, were all sexually assaulted before their deaths at the hands of the couple.

^^^I thought those were "before" and "after" photos.

I agree with Dillon on this.

I support Capital Punishment as the ultimate punishment available to society, but within a context of just judicial system with all the requisite checks and balances. Not-withstanding that some errors will occure in any human system, my view is that the benefits do outweigh the potential harm.

Cheers,
Shafique

I'm tempted to accept the idea of capital punishment in cases like serial killers who are total psychopaths, proven by psychologists, lots of forensic evidence, eyewitness confirmation, confession. If it is a completely proven case then it seems like a logical punishment so that those psychopaths don't take up space in prison. It is just that having capital punishment allowed at all does result in wrongful death. I don't agree that those wrongful deaths are acceptable, especially when the alternative is that the public is equally safe by having the criminal locked away for life in jail.

There are many arguments for, and against, capital punishment, Retribution I find is the most compelling argument for the death penalty and in its simplicity and root level ethics, overrides any possible argument against;

1. All guilty people deserve to be punished.
2. Only guilty people deserve to be punished.
3. Guilty people deserve to be punished in proportion to the severity of their crime.

“The argument states that real justice requires individuals to suffer for their wrongdoing, and to suffer in a way appropriate for their crime. Each criminal should get what their crime warrants and in the case of a murderer what their crime deserves is death.

The measure of punishment in a given case must depend upon the atrocity of that crime, the conduct of the perpetrator and the defenceless and unprotected state of the victim.

Imposition of appropriate punishment is the manner in which the courts respond to society's cry for justice against the criminals found guilty of the crimes as charged.

Justice demands that the courts should impose punishment befitting the crime so that the courts reflect public abhorrence of the crime.”

The quotation above and variations have been attributed to many sources.

If we are to believe the statistics presented to us in the numerous straw polls held in the UK since abolition of the death penalty in the late 1960’s, whether to re-introduce the death penalty and were to hold a referendum on that decision, the death penalty would be reintroduced with a resounding majority, but our elected governments, who are now hiding behind EU resolution on the subject forbidding such a referendum, have refused and continue to refuse to put this decision to a National Referendum.

Regards

Dillon, can you please give the source link to the info you posted above? Thanks.

kanelli wrote:Dillon, can you please give the source link to the info you posted above? Thanks.

The above is my considered opinion, compiled from many different sources, and unless you’re referring to a specific statement I made on which you are requesting further information, there’s a plethora of subject matter out there should you personally wish to research the subject any further.

Regards