Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk

JABALIYA, Palestinian Territories (AFP) – A senior Hamas leader on Thursday accused Israel of carrying out "countless holocausts" against the Palestinians while saying the Nazi genocide was a "lie."

Mahmud Zahar made the remarks during a memorial ceremony for 43 Palestinians who were killed at a UN school in the Jabaliya refugee camp during Israel's 22-day war on Gaza that began in December 2008.

"The lie according to which they were a victim of a holocaust and the (Jewish) people are a victim -- this lie has crumbled with the holocaust of Beit Hanun, the holocaust of Al-Fakhura and the other countless holocausts ... committed by the Zionist enemy," he said.

The real experts on this subject are – in jail, so maybe you will put up with hearing my view instead? Europe needs, more than anything else, a truth and reconciliation forum to get to the bottom of these matters, and to try and exorcise the demonic hate-images. Ever more nations are passing laws that prohibit citizens from expressing doubt – Germany, France, Austria, Poland, Romania, Belgium, Switzerland, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Collectively, we need to work trough our despair, rage, and ideas of blame, to try and access the real historical record.

But it should be made clear that neither Hamas nor the Palestinian government in Gaza denies the Nazi Holocaust. The Holocaust was not only a crime against humanity but one of the most abhorrent crimes in modern history. We condemn it as we condemn every abuse of humanity and all forms of discrimination on the basis of religion, race, gender or nationality.

symmetric wrote:For those naïve ones, believe me as I'm honest to the max. 98% of Eastern societies men/women/kids and even animals carry huge hatred towards those Israelis and would wish them death day and night.

gertrude wrote:Shaf, can you post a direct link to a hamas statement and not an article quoting hamas (snippet) , you are doing exactly what you accuse Herve of.
Who is Bassem Naeem the author of your article, is he a member of hamas or he is quoting hamas?

Bassem Naeem is the minister of health and information in the Hamas-led Palestinian administration in Gaza.

symmetric wrote:I dislike denying historical facts, and seeing today's horrible tragedy of the Palestineans who were humilated for more than 70 years being forced by the God of all evil (aka UK) to move away from their land and brutally massacred & smashed by the alien compilation of Europe's garbage (aka Jews), I just believe its a pity Hitler didn't accomplish his mission properly. Nothing can ever justify the tragedy of Palestine.

This matter has nothing to do with religion btw, its totally political. I hate injustice, and its expected to see more of a humanatarian sense from an ex-victim, but to see that ex-victim only learnt how to practise more brutality, then I have full right to wish the death of all zionist Jews.

For those naïve ones, believe me as I'm honest to the max. 98% of Eastern societies men/women/kids and even animals carry huge hatred towards those Israelis and would wish them death day and night.

If the West really felt guilty for their crimes against the european Jews, then why didn't they just donate any piece of land for them rather than raping a whole nation (Palestine)..? Or did the Europeans back then still hated those Jews and just wanted to get rid of their garbage by throwing it to the other side of the world for other nations to complete the mission?? I live to see that day.

gertrude wrote:Shaf, can you post a direct link to a hamas statement and not an article quoting hamas (snippet) , you are doing exactly what you accuse Herve of.
Who is Bassem Naeem the author of your article, is he a member of hamas or he is quoting hamas?

shafique wrote:
Fair point.. Bassam Naeem is a Hamas politician and Minister of Information (and Health) and was speaking on behalf of Hamas - the paper gave this as his profile:

Bassem Naeem is the minister of health and information in the Hamas-led Palestinian administration in Gaza.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... eholocaust
The headline is pretty clear 'Hamas condemns the Holocaust' but the article is more detailed and categoric.
As I said, if presented with snippets which appear to contradict this clear stance, the onus is on those producing the snippets to show that they aren't being fooled by wilful spin.

Cheers,
Shafique

Palestineans who were humilated for more than 70 years being forced by the God of all evil (aka UK) to move away from their land and brutally massacred & smashed by the alien compilation of Europe's garbage (aka Jews)

The article, of course, was a PR ploy for the soft minded in the Western world to believe. Not only is the opinion piece not representative of Hamas - there are no signatures from other Hamas officials or quotes given by them - the paper was written in English and there are no complementary articles in Arabic from Hamas acknowledging the article or the Holocaust.

In fact, if you take a look on the other thread, you'll see numerous instances of Hamas denying the historical reality of the Holocaust in print or speech.

The Arithmetic of Annihilation

The primary argument put forward by Professor Arthur Butz in his classic text, The Hoax of the 20th Century was demographic: the Jews of Europe were still there after the war and therefore had not been exterminated. They had generally moved eastwards, and once the Iron curtain came down in 1948 it became difficult to count them. Some two million emigrated from Europe, both to Palestine and America. Between 3 ½ and 4 million Jews had lived in all the lands controlled by Adolf Hitler[12], of which an upper limit of one million died in WW2: the figure of a million dead, ‘while possible, seems rather high to me’, concluded Butz[13],[14] – a figure to be contrasted with ten million Germans who died during and just after that war[15]. If somewhere around fifty million people died during WW2, that Jewish mortality comprised some 2% of this total: which is about the average for Europe, i.e. no great excess of Jews died in WW2. Almost half a million Jews dwelt in Germany around 1930 (around 1% of the population), and by 1939 many had emigrated, some 270,000 remaining[16].

The figure of six million dead is given in the ‘Holocaust’ section in Wikipedia, with three million having died in Poland. Its high ‘extermination’ figures are given in counties well to the East of Germany. East Europe was then the epicentre of world Jewry, and in the years around WWII a vast diaspora of Jews took place, mainly into what became the Soviet Union, but also Palestine and America. Poland had 10% of its total population Jewish in the 1930s and the Polish premier had ‘stated repeatedly that there were a million too many Jews in Poland’[17] –so the pressure on them to emigrate was not solely due to German policies. British rule in Palestine disintegrated in 1938, which meant that its strict immigration quotas ceased to apply. A very careful estimate of East Europe’s Jewish population ascertained that there were 2.6 million in Poland at the outbreak of the war - less than the total Polish ‘deaths’ given by Wikipedia. It put total worldwide mortality of Jews through WWII at 1 ¼ million, of which most was due to ‘Soviet barbarism’ rather than German labour-camps[18]. That seems quite comparable to the figure given above. Within the Nazi labour-camps, around four hundred and fifty thousand Jews died.[19]

There will never be peace in the middle east with people like him around.

According to the DCI report, some 700 children are convicted in Israel’s military courts each year, with children older than 12 denied access to lawyers in interrogation.

It adds that interrogators routinely blindfold and handcuff child detainees during questioning and use techniques including slaps and kicks, sleep deprivation, solitary confinement, threats to the child and his family, and tying the child up for long periods.

Such practices were banned by Israel’s Supreme Court in 1999 but are still widely documented by Israeli human rights groups.

gertrude wrote:Then, explain why Hamas spiritual leader contradicts Hamas minister of information, and not just once, when you google "Hamas and holocaust" you get dozens of links showing Hamas denies the holocaust and only one showing that Hamas condemns it.

herve wrote:Great find EH, it confirms, again, that Hamas denies the holocaust.

Bethsmum wrote:There will never be peace in the middle east with people like him around.

Followers of Islam have been intolerant of free thought, scathing criticism, rational discussion (just look at this forum!!!) and open critique. In fact, any true dialogue is non-existent. What we get instead is a monologue.

symmetric wrote:

herve wrote:Great find EH, it confirms, again, that Hamas denies the holocaust.

Who gives a damn anyways? Ppl here don't feel guilty like you, & we couldn't careless.
You killed, you take the shame and feel the guilt!

We got nothing to do with it, why does it bother you what others here think whethere they believe in it or deny it??!!

Its like me complaning "Oh, G.W. Bush denys the fact that a Jew lady poisoned prophet Mohammad" and then make a big deal of it. Too cheesy.

-- Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:57 am --

Bethsmum wrote:There will never be peace in the middle east with people like him around.

I told you this piece of fact previously already, and I'll just repeat i again ..

The vast majority of people in the Eastern societies, 98% surely hate Israelis (mainly zionists) and would wish to kick them all out of Palestine. Even those among us who don't adore the Palestineans much (count me), we still want that, and we pray to the destruction of those Israeli government & settlers. Even those who want peace, they just want it temporarily. This is based on political thoughts.

As per religion, lets not fool ourselves as we all believe in the Harmegeddon. The holy war!

Get these facts installed in your mind. If you don't appreciate my honesty, then I'll sing you Persian lullabies like my grandma used to do for me when I was a kid, and then keep dreaming and never wake up