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The Israeli Military Occupation of the West Bank claimed it's latest civilian casualty when a 67 year old civilian was shot dead in his bed in a bungled raid in Hebron.

In one of the understatements of the year, the IDF say it was a mistake.

Reports say he was shot 7 times in the upper body. Some mistake.

Of course, we'll hear the usual excuses how the 'most moral army' in the world doesn't mean to kill the civilians living under Military Occupation, or how it is all the fault of the 'Arabs' - or we'll get some more selective quotes and rhetoric about why the Mooslims are evil. In the meantime, real civilians are really killed by real bullets.

Imagine if the headline was 'Israeli pensioner shot dead in bed' - we all know what the headlines and bloggers will be saying then.

West Bank civilian dies in Israeli army raid in Hebron


The scene of the killing of Amr Qawasme

Israeli troops have shot dead a 67-year-old Palestinian man by mistake in an operation to arrest members of the Islamist militant organisation, Hamas.

The pre-dawn raid happened in Hebron, in the West Bank, a day after six supporters of Hamas had been released from jail by the Palestinian Authority.

The man who died was a neighbour of one of the Hamas men.

Hamas has said it holds the Palestinian Authority and Israel responsible.

Reports from the scene of the shooting said it took place in a bedroom on the building's first floor.

The Reuters news agency has reported that the man, Amr Qawasme, was shot and killed in his bed when soldiers broke into his home before dawn.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12133918

The IDF aren't the only army to make mistakes Shaf. You should know that. Why don't you balance your post with some mistaked made by the PLO or whoever else is flavour of the month. The IDF do a mighty fine job of trying to protect their people, as do the British Army. The Americans have numerous acts of 'friendly fire'. These unfortunates are causulties of war. Their wouldn't need to be an IDF if the Isrealis weren't being attacked.

The IDF aren't the only army to make mistakes Shaf.

Mistakes? LOL...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/ ... ontentBody

Berrin wrote:

The IDF aren't the only army to make mistakes Shaf.

Mistakes? LOL...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/ ... ontentBody

Yes Berrin, mistakes. They happen all the time in war situations unfortunately. Why single out the IDF? I'm sure, if I could be bothered, I could give you many accounts of unlawful killings of Isrealis by the other side. The IDF is a respected military force. I know they are well respected by the British Army. They wear a uniform and are well trained. Unlike those Palestinian cowboys riding round, faces covered, firing off shots into the air.

Nothing new here form the worlds most moral army and people who run it

Israel deliberately choked Gaza economy: WikiLeaks

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 4d9b6d.9b1

Shaf feel to split the thread if you see the need.

Why single out the IDF?

Becouse IDF soldires serve the interests of worldwide jewry (political zionists) and not the interests of historical jews, christians and palestinian Arabs who were living there peacefully side by side before zionists moved in confiscating lands that belonged to those people in the first place..

So yes every little injury they give to the historical locals are simply crime against humanity no matter who they are!..

Looks as though you may need to read more about the history of palestine before zionists moved in..
Here this site will show you the awful history of them and blood shed ever since....

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/maps.html

.

desertdudeshj wrote:Nothing new here form the worlds most moral army and people who run it

Israel deliberately choked Gaza economy: WikiLeaks

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 4d9b6d.9b1

Shaf feel to split the thread if you see the need.

Why would the thread need to be split DDS. This is all related to the IDF is it not? Do you mean you have gone of topic with your Isreal choked the Gazza economy link?

BM - the Israeli Military Occupation is definitely not the only military in the world to make mistakes - but they sure make a hell of a lot of them against unarmed civilians living under occupation (and also on boats sometimes too).

The other military co.ck-ups also don't tend to be carried out by a self-styled 'Most Moral (occupying) Army in the world' either!

But you're completely right BM - if any other military types went to the wrong apartment and put 7 bullets into a pensioner in his own bed - I would not hesitate to condemn this murder either. When this happens be sure to let me know and I'll join you in the condemnation.

Cheers,
Shafique

More "mistakes" from the most immoral Army in the world

Israeli troops shoot Palestinian man 'holding pipe bomb'. Which turned out to be a glass bottle

http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwid ... -pipe-bomb

shafique wrote:BM - the Israeli Military Occupation is definitely not the only military in the world to make mistakes - but they sure make a hell of a lot of them against unarmed civilians living under occupation (and also on boats sometimes too).

The other military co.ck-ups also don't tend to be carried out by a self-styled 'Most Moral (occupying) Army in the world' either!

But you're completely right BM - if any other military types went to the wrong apartment and put 7 bullets into a pensioner in his own bed - I would not hesitate to condemn this murder either. When this happens be sure to let me know and I'll join you in the condemnation.

Cheers,
Shafique

LOL Shaf you never fail to amuse BM!! I don't consider the IDF to be a military occupation, but a defender of their homelands! What you portray as a pensioner in his bed, I'm sure could be portrayed as a potential terrorist by the IDF!

^Well, at least the Ottawa police aren't as trigger happy as the IDF!

BM - the Military Occupation by Israel is a fact acknowledged by the State of Israel, so your 'belief' that they are just occupying their homeland is no different from extremists who believe Israel should be above the law - even their own laws.

The State of Israel has indeed tried to officially steal two of the pieces of land - by annexing Golan and parts of the West Bank it re-named 'East Jerusalem' after 1967 (along with East Jerusalem proper) - but again, the whole world including US (and FD here) are agreed this is illegal.

But we'll always have extremists who support criminals and criminal actions. Usually they aren't as proud as you to express their support of illegal actions though.

Cheers,
Shafique

Offcourse it was a mistake, everything from Israel is a mistake anyways! Killing the handikapped godfather of Hamas, Ahmad Yasin was also a mistake, right? An old man who can't walk and move and talk properly was also a mistake. Assasinating old men on bed are also a mistake. There are plenty of mistakes. Shooting kids and ignoring the tragedies of medicial needs on check points are also mistakes. The attack on humanatarian groups are also a mistake? That poor American humanatarian activist that was smashed to ground by an Israeli bouldozer was a mistake? Burning the ancient olive trees gardens are also a mistake.

Wow toomuch mistakes.

I look forward to the day when those mistaken jews will be brunt alive to death and then we'll all just call it a mistake.

Perhaps it is worth pointing out (again) that the shooting of the guy in bed took place in Hebron.

Hebron is not in Israel but is under Israeli military occupation.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf, I find it very disturbing that not once have you critised Symm for his posts. It just goes to reinforce my opinion that most Muslims are nutters. There is no reasoning with you people.

Shaf, I find it very disturbing that not once have you critised Symm for his posts. It just goes to reinforce my opinion that most Muslims are nutters.

The truth in what he writes is one thing, but the attitude he puts on while he is expressing his toughts is another thing. The two shouldn't be mixed..

Bethsmum wrote:Shaf, I find it very disturbing that not once have you critised Symm for his posts.

QFT!

BM - I've recently actually deleted a post by Sym when he crossed the line - to date, I haven't deleted any posts by you or herve.

When posts get personal, rather than just expressing one's general view - then we step in as mods. Whilst your views about 'most Muslims' and Roma etc are clearly Islamophobic and admitedly racist - these aren't grounds for me to put my Mod hat on. If I've missed a post from Sym that should have been moderated - let me know.

If you want me to be critical of him as a non-Mod - again, you can ask me directly for my opinion on anything you disagree with Sym about, I'll happily give you my opinion.

Did you confirm the fact that Hebron is not in Israel and is under a military occupation?

Cheers,
Shafique

OMG! I can't believe you think that this is acceptable!!

I dislike denying historical facts, and seeing today's horrible tragedy of the Palestineans who were humilated for more than 70 years being forced by the God of all evil (aka UK) to move away from their land and brutally massacred & smashed by the alien compilation of Europe's garbage (aka Jews), I just believe its a pity Hitler didn't accomplish his mission properly. Nothing can ever justify the tragedy of Palestine.

This matter has nothing to do with religion btw, its totally political. I hate injustice, and its expected to see more of a humanatarian sense from an ex-victim, but to see that ex-victim only learnt how to practise more brutality, then I have full right to wish the death of all zionist Jews.

For those naïve ones, believe me as I'm honest to the max. 98% of Eastern societies men/women/kids and even animals carry huge hatred towards those Israelis and would wish them death day and night.

Death to all Jews???? Hitler didn't accomplish his mission???????
I'm a believer in free speech, I'm not going to complain about what he or anyone else writes. You are the moderator around here not me. It doesn't stop me thinking you should have pulled him up on it. I can't believe I got a ban for calling someone fat! BTW you say I'm racist, yes I admit I am, but never ever ever would I wish all Muslims dead, not in a million years! Never. I only want what I think is best for my country and that's to stop us giving passports to anybody and their aunty.

BTW i couldn't give a flying F where Hebron is.

[mod hat on]

I disagree with sympathetics view about Jews and wishing for the death of all zionist jews - but he is expressing his view.

As distasteful as it is, others have openly expressed their hatred of other races/religions - and not had their posts edited or been banned. Personal insults are not tolerated, and as I said, I have recently deleted a post of Sympathetic when he crossed the line.

ok - I'll now take off mod hat.


BM - if you can't give a flying f for where the pensioner was gunned down in his bed, may I suggest you reserve your comments about the Israeli Occupation not being a Military Occupation in a thread discussing a shooting in Hebron.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:[mod hat on]

I disagree with sympathetics view about Jews and wishing for the death of all zionist jews - but he is expressing his view.

As distasteful as it is, others have openly expressed their hatred of other races/religions - and not had their posts edited or been banned. Personal insults are not tolerated, and as I said, I have recently deleted a post of Sympathetic when he crossed the line.

ok - I'll now take off mod hat.


BM - if you can't give a flying f for where the pensioner was gunned down in his bed, may I suggest you reserve your comments about the Israeli Occupation not being a Military Occupation in a thread discussing a shooting in Hebron.

Cheers,
Shafique

Ok Shaf, I'm going to answer your post in order of the points you have made.
Personally I have not seen anyone openly express their hatred of other races or religions in this manner. To wish death to all Jews on an open forum and not be chastised for it is bizarre to say the least! God knows what he said in the post that was deleted as I can't think of anything worse than this!
Personal insults will not be tolerated? Are you referring to me calling DDS fat? Can I remind you that he called me 'Chubs' for weeks, but I received a ban for calling him fat. He also called me a whore, again, no chastisment for that either. I dared to suggest DDS wanted to be a westener and received a warning. There is something fishy about the moderation of this site. Can I suggest a retraining day where you all get together and sing from the same song sheet? If I was at all sensative I could think I was being victimised for my race/religion/views.

As for the Hebron thing, this topic is about the IDF killing some man in his bed. I replied that it wasn't only the IDF that made mistakes in war situations. What's Hebron got to do with it? They killed him and it was a mistake. Why do you have to make a song and dance about everything negative to do with the Isrealis and Jews? Repeat, repeat, repeat. You are a bit like Beth with her Usher CD. 'Turn that bloody record off!'

BM - this is what you said in this thread:

Bethsmum wrote: I don't consider the IDF to be a military occupation, but a defender of their homelands! What you portray as a pensioner in his bed, I'm sure could be portrayed as a potential terrorist by the IDF!

And yet, the fact is that the pensioner in his bed was in Hebron, living under Military Occupation.

As for symapthetic - yes, his views are totally abhorrent to me - wishing all zionist Jews dead etc. Those are his views. Others may view your statements about those killed by Israelis in the same light - abhorent and callous. Your statements weren't deleted, and neither were his. Herve thinks that all the Egyptian Muslims offering themselves as human shields are hypocrites - again distasteful and almost definitely not factual, but as they are his views, they weren't censored.

Where sym does cross the line and personally insult people - or if goes on a gadfly-like rant about Zionist this or that, then he'll be dealt with like gadfly was.

Cheers,
Shafique

I see you have conveniently ignored my remarks that you can not put a spin on.

BTW why do you keep saying Zionist Jews? What are you trying to say here? I wish you would just say what you mean at the end of the day. I hope you're not implying it is ok to kill Jews that are not Zionists.

I was referring to Sympathetics actual quote about having the right to want to kill all zionist Jews. His comment about Hitler did not refer to zionist or otherwise other jews.

And no, the abhorence is not lessened by the use of Zionist Jews or not - the same would apply.

The blanket stereotyping of people (be they Jews, Muslims, Pakistanis, Blacks, White, Emirati) is abhorent to me - but there are examples of people making their views known and they are not censored.

Cheers,
Shafique

Notice that this from symmetric was left without any consequence:

symmetric wrote:FD is a scumbag, we must kill him while being unarmed, and then let's justify that with GOOD reasons such as he had hostile thoughts towards our nations, so we have to protect ourselves in advance and just kill him .. See what concept this scumbag got?

Flying Dutchman wrote:Notice that this from symmetric was left without any consequence:

symmetric wrote:FD is a scumbag, we must kill him while being unarmed, and then let's justify that with GOOD reasons such as he had hostile thoughts towards our nations, so we have to protect ourselves in advance and just kill him .. See what concept this scumbag got?

I thought personal attacks would not be tolerated? Or is it just personal attacks against Muslims?

BM - always be wary of quotes without references.

symmetric wrote:I just feel so sorry for those millions of Americans that are being manipulated by their regime that's backboned by the Jewish Zionist lobby. And I swear it's EQUAL to Al Qaeda, in fact Al Qaeda is American made after all, so it all makes sense after all.

FD is a scumbag, we must kill him while being unarmed, and then let's justify that with GOOD reasons such as he had hostile thoughts towards our nations, so we have to protect ourselves in advance and just kill him .. See what concept this scumbag got?

dubai-politics-talk/sea-stupidity-t42097-120.html#p338861

I trust that the sarcasm and smileys aren't lost on you - but take out the smileys and the context, and you can spin it like Sym was calling for FD to be killed, rather than showing him that his logic for Palestinians doesn't look so nice when applied to him.

Whilst I may not approve of the way he expressed this point - the point in context is quite clear. (And indeed, in that same thread, the mods did indeed step in and caution sympathetic on other posts.. so it is not that he is given a free reign - just that he sails close to the wind).

[/mod]

Moral - ask for refs for quotes when they are noticeably absent!

Cheers,
Shafique

Bethsmum wrote:

Flying Dutchman wrote:Notice that this from symmetric was left without any consequence:

symmetric wrote:FD is a scumbag, we must kill him while being unarmed, and then let's justify that with GOOD reasons such as he had hostile thoughts towards our nations, so we have to protect ourselves in advance and just kill him .. See what concept this scumbag got?

I thought personal attacks would not be tolerated? Or is it just personal attacks against Muslims?

Obviously. See above post from Shafique.

When I called DDS a fat f--ker it was followed by a smiley face just like this one It made not the slightest difference, it got me a ban. What say you to this shaf, can you spin it?

FD you must have really trawled the forum to come up with that one mate. A (not so)clever attempt to spin it too. By leaving out the smileys or the little warning he got for it earlier on