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Clearly this terror operation must be blamed on occupation.

Or religious oppression.

Or, uh, poverty.

Come on people, use your imaginations!

Danish and Swedish authorities have arrested five people suspected of planning an "imminent" attack in Copenhagen against a newspaper that printed controversial cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

Whose prophet?

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europ ... 74274.html

That does not count EH, for Al Shafique it is a just a minority incident that only fuels islamophobia,

herve wrote:... incident that only fuels islamophobia,

Yes, excellent point , it indeed does exactly that.

This one does look like a bona-fide religously motivated terrorist attempt - good on the Danes for foiling this one. They had real guns and ammo from the initial reports.

As herve rightly points out though, the Europol stats do show that religously motivated terrorist attacks by Muslims are less than 1% in Europe. But this one and the one in Sweden are matched by the two (small) bombs in Rome this month.

I'm starting to believe that the film 'Four Lions' is either based on life or is inspiring numpties (I'm sure arguments can be made either way). But it is a bit concerning if numpties are getting their hands on machine guns and ammo before being caught!

Edit: perhaps it wasn't a machine gun as I thought. BBC says it was one automatic weapon with some ammo. Still numpties with one gun can be dangerous.

Cheers,
Shafique

I was being sarcastic al Shafique. You manipulate statistics that are been designed by authorities to calm masses, to keep order and to prevent citizens (by Descent) who already think they are being invaded by Muslims in their own countries and armed to the teeth, to tilt over the edge and go on a mass and deadly islamophobia rampage.
As an imported citizen yourself, I would like to see what side you would take in case of a civil unrest.
for what I understand you carry a british passport as of convenience, but continuously bash against the country who gave you a passport.
You spend all day reading Haaretz looking for something to pull against the free world and you flood this forum with desinformation, but I doubt you convince anyone. News are always to remind people how dark ages is the Mulsim religion and that the biggest threat remains islamist.
you continuously refuse to accept the difference between Islamic attacks which are designed to mass killing people, women and children included, and anarchist attacks which are against specific and limited targets, mostly empty buildings, mail boxes and door knobs.
Name me one anarchist attack against an commercial passenger plane.

In what way did I manipulate the Europol statistics?

But you are right, people should not just take my summary or views - after all, I'm just someone who posts on a forum and expresses his views.

I suggest, though, that Europol's (i.e. EU wide police organisation) own conclusion should carry some weight:

On p.7, the 2009 Europol report concludes:

Islamist terrorism is still perceived as being the biggest threat worldwide, despite the fact that the EU only faced one Islamist terrorist attack in 2008. This bomb attack took place in the UK…Separatist terrorism remains the terrorism area which affects the EU most. This includes Basque separatist terrorism in Spain and France, and Corsican terrorism in France…Past contacts between ETA and the FARC illustrate the fact that also separatist terrorist organizations seek cooperation partners outside the EU on the basis of common interests. In the UK, dissident Irish republican groups, principally the RIRA and the CIRA, and other paramilitary groups may continue to engage in crime and violence.

Perception is not reality, the report showed:
dubai-politics-talk/terrorism-the-facts-t41918.html#p336917

Cheers,
Shafique

you keep posting the distorded statistics. I can post again if you want the wikileak cable in which Europeean officials said the number one terrorist threat was Islamist. They said, I experienced it and it is the truth.
If Islamists are the number one threat , it means everything else is not.
Again give me one person responsible for a terrorist attack on a commercial passenger plane that is not Islamic. Give me one name of a suicide terrorits that is not Islamic

How are they distorted?

The Europol report's conclusion is based on the stats in their report - they say that the perception that Islamist terrorism is the main threat is not supported by evidence. That is their conclusion (and I highlighted it in red for you).

Have Europol published new stats that say this conclusion was wrong?

Cheers,
Shafique

In this wikileak cable, counter terrorist experts and diplomats state that the number ONE terrorist threat is Islamic.
http://wikileaks.ch/cable/2006/11/06PARIS7579.html
I could not find in the europol report any suicide bombings or commercial passenger planes terrorist attacks or attemped attacks that were NOT from Islamists

Herve - you made an allegation that the Europol statistics I quoted were 'distorted'. I quoted their conclusions based on the same statistics (which I quoted without manipulation in any way).

I'm asking whether you have any evidence that the statistical evidence which shows that the PERCEPTION of Islamic terrorism being the number 1 threat is correct?

Europol's conclusion that the number one threat is from separatists is there in black (well red, now I highlighted it) and white.

The fact you desperately want to believe that this conclusion is wrong, but don't have any statistics to back this up is not really my problem, is it?

And let's not forget, this month we've had two successful terrorist bomb attacks - in Rome, and one unsuccessful one in Sweden. The two successful ones weren't carried out by Muslims.

The 4 numpties with a gun in Denmark are a worry - but it's hardly the start of a Global Mooslim take-over is it? (Unless you believe the hype from bloggers who would have us believe a brown guy farting in a lift is actually a Muslim chemical attack!)

Perception vs Reality - I choose reality. You're free to ignore it - but please don't dismiss Europol's conclusions with a wikileaks cable, only one of them is based on actual evidence.

Cheers,
Shafique

I based my opinion on secret conversations between experts and high officials, and on my experience.
They for sure have the real statisitics to say In this wikileak cable, that the number ONE terrorist threat is Islamic, and that a number of imams should be expelled ASAP.
http://wikileaks.ch/cable/2006/11/06PARIS7579.html
I could not find in the europol report any suicide bombings or commercial passenger planes terrorist attacks or attemped attacks that were NOT from Islamists.
Again you are ignoring on purpose, the difference between a bomb mailed to a po box that can barely kill anyone, and islamic nut bag on his way to blow up a plane with 200 passengers

Ok - I'm just quoting the EU wide police report's conclusions based on the evidence they published.

You'll excuse me if I put more reliance on actual statistics (backed up by what has happened this month in terms of terrorist attacks - Islamist vs non-Islamist), than on hear say.

Europol's conclusions and statistics are based on ALL terrorist attacks - which is what you'd expect, isn't it? Why should they distort the survey to come up with a conclusion that suits your perception?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote: Why should they distort the survey to come up with a conclusion that suits your perception?

Cheers,
Shafique

It is the other way around, they distorded stats Because they dont want people getting justice by themselves and start shooting all Mulsims on sight, just because they share the same religion than these nutbags.
Remember last month in the US, a guy threw a molotov coktail in a moske in retribution of an islamist terrorits attempted terrorist attack.
There are a LOT, of guys out there, UK, US, France, upset, trigger happy, with stock piles of ammos and waiting. Trust me , nobody wants alarming statistics to inflamme these guys.
then May be Muslims should get special protection after all, which would make everything worse.

What you seem to be saying Herve is that counting ALL terrorist attacks distorts the statistics. ??

This quite a strange argument - but at least we are now clear that I have just quoted what the EU police force has reported and have concluded.

We see that they say separatist terrorists are the main threat and they provide the statistical basis for this conclusion.

You choose to believe the 'perception' that they say is wrong, statistically.

I see absolutely no evidence (I repeat, no evidence) that the EuroPol authorities invented, distorted or otherwise manipulated the terrorist acts listed to underplay the threat from Muslims because they didn't want to upset Islamophobes further. That is one of the most creative excuses I've heard in a while. Bravo.

Perhaps it is because I tend to look for evidence, I'll continue to believe the evidence and conclusions until it is shown to be wrong:

Islamist terrorism is still perceived as being the biggest threat worldwide, despite the fact that the EU only faced one Islamist terrorist attack in 2008. This bomb attack took place in the UK…Separatist terrorism remains the terrorism area which affects the EU most.

2 terrorist bombs by anarchists this month show that the trend isn't changing. QED.

Cheers,
Shafique

What you seem to be saying Herve is that counting ALL terrorist attacks distorts the statistics.

No, Herve is saying that it's misleading to compare suicide bombers, shooting rampages, bus/train and aircraft bombings to rubbish bin fires or the rare mail bomb.

Clearly Herve isn't the only one to think that way, either. People with common sense, such as those counter terrorism officials who had their views recently disclosed, are also more worried over Islamic terrorism than any other form of terrorism in Europe.

Good grief. How many unnecessarily lengthy posts did you have to write to not understand the obvious?

I see absolutely no evidence (I repeat, no evidence) that the EuroPol authorities invented, distorted or otherwise manipulated the terrorist acts listed to underplay the threat from Muslims because they didn't

Pray to Allah for a brain.

So, Europol's conclusion based on actual terrorist attacks is 'misleading' because they rightly point out that the perception and reality are different?

Hmm.

Let's re-read what the experts (not bloggers) concluded:

Islamist terrorism is still perceived as being the biggest threat worldwide, despite the fact that the EU only faced one Islamist terrorist attack in 2008. This bomb attack took place in the UK…Separatist terrorism remains the terrorism area which affects the EU most.

Did you notice the word 'fact' in there. It followed the word 'perceived'.

Now, for the $64,000 question. What remains the terrorism are which affects the EU the most??

LOL

Cheers,
Shafique

Separatists



Islamists

Both count as one act of terrorism.

Don't know why anyone would see a difference between the two.

Facts? Statistics?

vs

Perception?

. Of course, the reality is that there are other groups that engage in terrorism on a much larger scale, yet these terrorist incidents are minimized. Acts of terrorism committed by Muslims are purposefully sensationalized and focused upon, culminating in the idea that “(nearly) all terrorists are Muslims.”

Terrorism from Islamic extremists is certainly a cause for concern, but it need not be an issue that creates mass hysteria. Nor should it be allowed to be such a critical issue that we are willing to sacrifice our ideals or civil rights for fear of it. Neither should we be reduced to a status of absolute sissitude. We have analyzed data from America and Europe (a good portion of the entire Western world), and the threat from Islamic terrorism is much more minimal than commonly assumed; in the U.S., it accounts for 6% of terrorist attacks, and in Europe not even half of a percent.

It is only through sensationalism and fear mongering that the topic of Islamic terrorism is allowed to be used to demonize a religious community that happens to be a minority in the West. When confronted by such lunacy, we ought to respond with the facts and the truth.

Perhaps you'll read this and understand it this time?

Cheers,
Shafique

Perception:

event horizon wrote:

Separatists

Reality:


ETA bomb in July 2009:

The blast at the rear of the civil guard barracks in Burgos, northern Spain, caused significant damage to the 14-storey building and surrounding dwellings.

Around 120 people were sleeping in the building, at least a third of them children, when the bomb hidden in a van exploded shortly before 4 am. Most of the injuries were from flying glass, and 38 of the wounded were treated in a hospital before being released.

Authorities believe the blast was designed to kill and expressed surprise that no-one died in the attack, which came without any warning.

"The attack aimed to cause deaths," Alfredo Perez Rubalcaba, Spain's interior minister, told reporters at the scene. "Forty-one girls and boys were sleeping and could simply have been killed in what was a major car bomb.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ng-60.html

Spot the difference?

The next day 2 were killed in Majorca in a car bomb explosion:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/trave ... jorca.html



Cheers,
Shafique

So you're comparing an insurgency to homegrown Muslim terrorists.

Jeez, can you get any more desperate?

No, I'm comparing your cartoon for separatist attacks vs the reality of the separatist attacks in Spain (to match the photo of a terror attack in Spain).

Separatists remain the main threat in Europe. Their bombs kill - and are aimed to kill - not dustbin fires.

Epic fail on your part. Again.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shafique ....what do you make of the secret cables between counter terrorist experts and diplomats exposed by wikileaks in which they state that the number one terrorist threat is Islamic:
http://wikileaks.ch/cable/2006/11/06PARIS7579.html
Do you think they also have a distorded perception