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Chocoholic wrote:

symmetric wrote:A women can never be a king, nor the man can be a queen
(Verse number 1, Sym's holy book)

I beg to differ, there are many male 'queens'!

LMAO!!!

melika969 wrote:No, you are mistaken! Religious rules are quite clear, and they are very different from cultures. at least from persian culture!

I hope you don't mind me sharing this bit with you

It's advisable not to mix between religion and culture when comparing liberlism.
In terms of culture, I totally agree with you that we Persians (as well as Turks) are more liberal than Arabs.
But on the other hand every single Muslim nation has it's unique blended mixture of it's own culture and religion. It applys to Arabs, Persians, Turks, Indians, etc.

For instance, in our Persian culture we have the Nourooz celebration (resembles Persian culture), in which we prepare the Sofreye Haft Sin which we place The Quran (resembles our Religion) in the middle of it. Some would place book of Hafez or Saadi's poems (which also has a very significant religious influence itself).

During "Kashfe Hijab" when Hijab was banned by Reza Shah the vast majority of people were disappointed and offended, mainly the conservative ones, and specially those who live in the countryside and suburbs.

When Khomaini forced the Hijab, again people were offended & disappointed, as there are people in Iran who are very liberal Muslims who prefer to keep religion for occaisions only.

Islam, perhaps like Jeudaism does not praise the art of music much, and although majority of Muslim scholars were Persians, but Persians were the masters of music and art in the middle east!

It's an example of how Persians were very flexable and multi-functional

I'm a moderate Persian, and you're a liberal Persian, and I'm sure we both agree that we seek moderation, right? Greetings to my hamshehri friend

zubber wrote:Yes really , and thank you , I wish you well in you unbiased review of the religion !

Good Luck !

CHECK - MATE

hehe I see you are editing your posts too much Zubber! Are you intimidated?

How check-mate?? Was it written in a "scripture"?

lesson 2: One of the cultures present in ME is Persian, which belongs to Iran. ( If you remember the last lesson, Iran is one of the countries in ME.)

melika969 wrote:

zubber wrote:Yes really , and thank you , I wish you well in you unbiased review of the religion !

Good Luck !

CHECK - MATE

hehe I see you are editing your posts too much Zubber! Are you intimidated?

How check-mate?? Was it written in a "scripture"?

lesson 2: One of the cultures present in ME is Persian, which belongs to Iran. ( If you remember the last lesson, Iran is one of the countries in ME.)

haha You're also a comedian ?

zubber wrote:
Lesson 2 - They are shia , with a completely different government and a starkly different society

In what sense you think the Iranian society is different? Is it because of the Shia regime?

Shiasm is resembled in the current regime/government which does not resemble the people at all.
Majority of Iranians are Muslims (true), but they're not practising much, just like Muslims in Turkey or Lebanon. Actually MANY Iranians are fed up of all the illogic non-sense forced on them by the extreme Shia-government.
Shiasm was transfered to Iran by Arabs & Turks. Many of the Shia leaders of the current dictatorship regime are acually from Arabia and not Iranians.

It took 300 years to mutate most of the nation in organized brutal massacres to force it accept Shiasm.
The Iranian people were victimized ever since. Give them a break please. However, Iran is very diverse in terms of demography and sect. There are still many Sunni Muslims in Iran, as well as Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians. I'm a Sunni Persian for instance.

Someday (soon hopefully), the Iranian people will get rid of all this non-sense forced by extremists and will have its own proper elected regime.

Thanks sym for sharing the information.

I totally agree that culture and religion is different. My point was, the unfair rules towards women is not cutural but religious.

melika969 wrote:My point was, the unfair rules towards women is not cutural but religious.

And my point was , They appear to be "unfair" because of the improper understanding of the religion.

melika969 wrote:Thanks sym for sharing the information.

I totally agree that culture and religion is different. My point was, the unfair rules towards women is not cutural but religious.

I totally hear you and understand your point

zubber wrote:

melika969 wrote:My point was, the unfair rules towards women is not cutural but religious.

And my point was , They appear to be "unfair" because of the improper understanding of the religion.

aha so are you one of those who bring up new version of religion?

for example in your new version, having 4 wives for men is not allowed? or men can not beat their wives anymore? or "blood money" for women is not half men? or hijab is not mandatory? (you might need to google hijab,as I understood you are very knowledgeable person), or women can get divorce as easy as men can?

and if yes, how did you manage to contradict your holy book? are you bringing a new book for us?

^^ I have succinctly pointed out to you how to derive answers to your burning questions (refer to previous posts) , try them. No DUDE or DUDET on some forum will give YOU a satisfactory answer, mel.

zubber wrote:^^ I have succinctly pointed out to you how to derive answers to your burning questions (refer to previous posts) , try them. No DUDE or DUDET on some forum will give YOU a satisfactory answer, mel.

LOL. I dont have a question!

I dont mean to shut you down , but from what i see , sometimes you loose objectivity and engage in subtle ad hominem attacks , and then have emotionally charged statements which defeat whatever logic you were trying to build, But the floor is open to whoever wants to continue the discussion

LOL.

Bub-bye!!!

p.s. you learned sth new today, Iran is in middle east! yay!

indeed , and a lot of other things too

Good for you! Use google more and there are lots of interesting things to learn.

but still I didnt see any of proper understanding of religion and how did you reach to it all by urself!

And so should you , Google is a good tool no doubt

I told you the PROPER way is to follow the METHOD, Employing any other means will lead to results that are useless

zubber wrote:^^ My point is that at the current moment in time is that all intimate relationships outside the bounds of marriage are illegal. NO men cannot have sexual relations outside marriage under any circumstance. Are you able to comprehend this simple point ?

I'm glad you understood my point, as Icenic did first time around.

And about slavery not existing in the current time, that's a point to be contended with.

^^ True, slavery does exist but not in the most traditional sense, closest thing to it would be the debt that results in indentured servitude to the financial institutions. And perhaps the slaves as a result of the flesh trade.

On the contrary slavery does exists to this day and I mean in the traditional sense.

Agreed, But those instances seem to be forced and is generally accounted as illegal, I was referring to the existence of slavery as a generally accepted practice as it was in the past.

Pfff what happened to the discussions about boning, all this religious malarky is bogging things down.

Chocoholic wrote:Pfff what happened to the discussions about boning, all this religious malarky is bogging things down.

Excellent!!! Rarely do we see a female asking for a change back to what clearly is a superior topic.

Just on slavery point of view ----- there is a joke/saying that goes something like this ---- when a pharaoh was resurrected from his tomb by scientists one of his first questions was why slavery had been abolished. The answer given to him was that slavery still existed but in these times the slaves were made to wear ties.

Chocoholic wrote:Pfff what happened to the discussions about boning, all this religious malarky is bogging things down.

Huh ... this is a valid -theoretical, for some - discussion, Chocoholic. Men are allowed to have sex outside of marriage, legally.

Yeah but severly OFF topic

brucebanner wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:Pfff what happened to the discussions about boning, all this religious malarky is bogging things down.

Huh ... this is a valid -theoretical, for some - discussion, Chocoholic. Men are allowed to have love outside of marriage, legally.

NO - they're not!

brucebanner wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:Pfff what happened to the discussions about boning, all this religious malarky is bogging things down.

Huh ... this is a valid -theoretical, for some - discussion, Chocoholic. Men are allowed to have love outside of marriage, legally.

Read all the posts in the thread properly, your facts are all mixed up.