UK Police: EDL Responsible For Islamic Etremism

Topic locked
  • Reply
UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Nov 20, 2010
Even though the article says the EDL formed only a year ago, the EDL are accused by a British counter-terrorism official of 'encouraging Islamic extremism'. You know, because British Islamic extremism wasn't a concern before the EDL over a year ago.

The reporter, however, never dared to ask if the EDL are a recruiting tool for Islamists, then have British Muslims, especially their behavior for the past decade, been a recruiting tool for the EDL? And what of Christian extremists?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Are British Muslims fueling Christian extremism in Britain?

If not, then why? Are the causes for religious extremism more complex than the counter-terrorism official would admit to?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11787839

Image



Outside Church service

event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Nov 20, 2010
I get really tired of seeing images like that - these sub-human beings are nothing but thugs, who deserve nothing better than to be booted out of the UK.
Chocoholic
Miss DubaiForums 2005
User avatar
Posts: 12829

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Nov 22, 2010
It makes you wonder what kind of recruiting tool British Muslims are for the EDL.
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Nov 27, 2010
Are the EDL a big deal in the UK? I saw a programme a while back (most of my information is based on 30minute documentaries) and the EDL looked like a fairly disorganised bunch of hooligans who didn't really know what they stood for. They had even recruited a british asian that was a speaker for them at gathering - their objection as I understood it (and I am probably wrong) was that they were not racist but didn't like the large amount of immigration that had occured. They didn't make much sense and their overall education level looked pretty low.

More generally however in Europe we will definitely see a swing towards more facist groups - as the social cuts bite and unemployment rises people will look to everyone that is different and blame them for their troubles.
JoeTGF
Dubai forums Addict
User avatar
Posts: 318
Location: Dubai

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Nov 27, 2010
We've discussed the EDL before here.

JihadWatch (an Islamophobic blog which most view with as much credibility as the National Enquirer and yet some believe it is gospel) has endorsed these guys:
dubai-politics-talk/edl-welcomed-jihadwatch-t42605.html

This thread shows the difference between what the EDL say they are about and what the reality is:
dubai-politics-talk/edl-views-violence-and-racism-t42611.html

Image

Image
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Nov 27, 2010
Are the EDL a big deal in the UK?


The police are blaming the EDL for Islamic extremism.

Some might say the authorities are looking for a scape goat.

They had even recruited a british asian that was a speaker for them at gathering


It's difficult to spin the EDL as racist when they are, as you say, a diverse movement.

There's no one EDL and each 'franchise' could be completely different from the other just town or two away.

Ultimately, the loon attempts to pin the racism plague to the EDL has failed miserably. The EDL's goals are quite straightforward and, IMO, quite sensible.

They have suffered getting their image across due to the smear merchants precisely because their movement is not centralized and an EDL rally is quite easy to infiltrate.

The group also has genuine grass roots support from all stratum of British society, driving the loons crazy. Many Hindus and Sikhs, for instance, either are members or are attracted to their core views and the EDL has no problem with having speakers of color speak at their demonstration. Why would they?

For most British people, the problem isn't the EDL but with political Islam, multiculturalism and desctructive immigration policies. I agree with the majority of British people.

-- Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:54 pm --

Thanks UK authorities, you just earned the EDL more recruits:

Anti-Allah outburst earns EDL supporter £200 fine after protest in Leicester

A man has been fined for making offensive comments about Allah during the English Defence League protest in Leicester.

Lee Whitby was found guilty of using racially aggravated abusive words during the protest in the city centre on Saturday, October 9.

During a trial at Leicester Magistrates' Court yesterday, the 27-year-old pleaded not guilty to chanting "threatening, abusive or insulting" words that were likely to cause "harassment, alarm or distress."

Although he admitted making comments, Whitby said he did not believe they would have been heard by anyone other than police officers or fellow EDL supporters.

However, magistrate Rick Moore ruled that officers were likely to have been alarmed by the defendant's words.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/n ... ticle.html

Really? This is the 21st century?

You arrest and fine citizens if they insult deities?

Really?
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Nov 28, 2010
I think its the law - using "racially aggravated abusive words " to encite racial hatred is against the law in the UK. I think you can say that you don't like, believe, follow a particular religion or make arguments about why its a bad religion, it doesn't work, etc but you can't just say allah stinks or jesus is a gay. As you can see I have a firm grip of the UK legal system.
JoeTGF
Dubai forums Addict
User avatar
Posts: 318
Location: Dubai

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Nov 28, 2010
I see what you're saying.

I was pointing out that the UK is not a free speech nation.

Really, I couldn't imagine only a few years ago that Western nations, in the 20th and 21st century, actually had active laws where citizens were punished for 'blasphemy'.
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Nov 28, 2010
I didn't think nations (or in this case a nation) would create a seperate prison where people could be held for years without charge...guantanamo bay if it wasn't obvious. Under the terrorism act the UK has pretty wide ranging powers as well where they can side step the burden of proof for a ridiculous amount of time - when the icelandic bank thing happened the UK was considering using some of the powers under the terrorism act to take action. Completely crazy.
JoeTGF
Dubai forums Addict
User avatar
Posts: 318
Location: Dubai

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Nov 28, 2010
JoeTGF wrote: you can't just say allah stinks or jesus is a gay.


Seriously? Saying "Jesus is gay" is illegal in the UK?
Flying Dutchman
Dubai Forums Zealot
Posts: 3792
Location: Dubai

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Nov 28, 2010
Will Elton John be fined then?

(I seem to recall that someone else said that in Britain a few years ago and received death threats for it, but the death threats didn't come from Christians, so perhaps it now is illegal to say that Jesus is gay)

Edit, here you go:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/493436.stm

It's amazing to see all those Christian fundamentalists clamoring for the playwright's death. No, wait......
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Nov 28, 2010
Terrence McNally was sentenced to death by the Shari'ah Court of the UK as his play

The religious edict was signed by Sheik Omar Bakri Muhammad, judge of the Shari'ah Court of the UK.

If he travels to an Islamic state, then he would risk arrest and execution.

The sheik added: "We do not believe in political assassination, but obviously he would face capital punishment.

"He will be arrested and there will be capital punishment."


...and this is legal in the UK? Issuing a captial sentence by a British sharia court judge for portraying Jesus as gay?
Flying Dutchman
Dubai Forums Zealot
Posts: 3792
Location: Dubai

  • Reply
Re: UK Police: EDL Responsible For Islamic Etremism Nov 28, 2010
Joe - I feel you mate.

The 'dream team' are tag teaming you - you'll soon be asked to provide legal evidence and such like, all in an attempt to throw up a smokescreen to hide the fact that the EDL are fascist thugs that are welcomed (and indeed championed) by Islamophobes such as Bob Spencer of Jihad Watch.

Jewish people in the UK have rejected the EDL as racist thugs:
The "Not in our name" group's founding pledge states: "The Jewish community has always been at the forefront of anti-fascism. From Cable Street to defeating the BNP at the ballot box, we have been unafraid to speak out against those who seek to spread fear and hatred in our communities.

"Now our community faces a new threat. The EDL claims to be our allies in the fight against extremism. In reality, they are violent racists with BNP members and Nazi sympathisers among their ranks.

"It is time for the Jewish community to come together as one to expose the EDL as the racist thugs they are."

Edie Friedman, director of the Jewish Council for Racial Equality, which is backing the initiative, said: "It's terribly important for different sections of the community, as well as individuals, to stand up and say categorically, 'not in our name'. It's unbelievable that such an organisation can appropriate Jewish support."

Karen Pollock, chief executive of the Holocaust Educational Trust, said: "At the HET we educate about the dangers of racism and discrimination and it is vital that we stand up against groups such as the EDL who preach hatred and division in our communities."

Ms Moore responded: "We are not bothered by their futile threats and attempts to silence us. We, and much of the Jewish community, know they lack the courage to address the issues we highlight. They have not been doing their job for a long time, and seem to have not only abandoned but betrayed the Jewish community in general."

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/arti ... nity-voice
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Nov 29, 2010
Wonder how British Jews feel about the 37% of British Muslims who view them as 'legitimate' targets:

A majority regard the Jewish community and its links to Israel with suspicion. More than half both think that it is right to boycott Holocaust Memorial Day and believe that the Jewish community has no interest in the plight of the Palestinians and has too much influence over British foreign policy.

Nearly two fifths (37 per cent) believe that the Jewish community in Britain is a legitimate target “as part of the ongoing struggle for justice in the Middle East”.


EDL's fault

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p ... 727952.ece
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: UK Police: EDL Responsible For Islamic Etremism Nov 29, 2010
Image

Thankfully, there's no need to speculate how the Jewish community views the EDL thugs. ;)
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Dec 02, 2010
No need to speculate:

...Rabbi Rosen, the director of inter-religious affairs at the Washington-based American Jewish Congress, said that a predominantly secular and liberal Western European society is under threat from the rapid growth of Islamic communities which do not want to integrate with their neighbours.

"I am against building walls. My humanity is my most important component. But Western society very clearly doesn't have a strong identity. I would like Christians in Europe to become more Christian ... those who do not have a strong identity are easily overrun by those who do," the rabbi warned.


http://euobserver.com/9/31386

Image

Rabbi David Rosen
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: UK Police: EDL Responsible For Islamic Etremism Dec 04, 2010
Loonwatch has a piece on this and asks:

The question we must ask of Rabbi Rosen and others who share his views or forward similar views is, how can they believe the character, foundation and beliefs of Europe are so fickle that a minority population (that all indications show is integrated) will so dramatically alter Europe? It exposes a profound lack of confidence in Europe.


Indeed. :roll:

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/12/rabbi- ... -by-islam/

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Dec 04, 2010
Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Were you expecting a Leftist/Islamist website to agree with the Rabbi?

It clearly does show that the European Left are working against what most Europeans want.

There's no doubt that there are assimilation problems in Europe, even where Europeans (British) have bent over backwards to integrate their immigrants.

I'm sure any non-Muslim European on this forum will agree that Europe is headed in the wrong direction.
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: UK Police: EDL Responsible For Islamic Etremism Dec 07, 2010
Looks like the Rabbi is dis-associating himself from the article eh quoted:

Dear Loonwatch.com,

The article that you reproduced from EUobserver.com grossly misrepresented me. The headline and the first paragraph are entirely the reporter’s tendentious fabrication. The quotes are correct, but connecting mine with the others in the piece even distorts the quotes. I was addressing a group of journalists on the subject of Religion and Identity in the M.E. In question time they asked me about Europe and the prognosis of an eventual Muslim majority. I said that I didn’t think one needed to be afraid of such a prospect, if the Muslim population was appropriately integrated in Europe as it sought to be. However if the prospect causes them concern, then the only appropriate and valid response is to strengthen their own identities and this is unlikely to succeed without a religious basis. I would be grateful if you would put this clarification upon your site.

Thankyou,
Rabbi David Rosen

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/12/rabbi- ... nd-europe/

As loonwatch says:
A poor choice of words from the Rabbi initially but his clarification spells out his repudiation of the Muslim demographic take over conspiracy, though in reality all indicators reveal that Muslims in Europe are in a post-integration phase and have already been integrated into society.


Indeed.
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Dec 08, 2010
Good. We can now look at the article instead of focusing on the person who was quoted.

It's my belief, as well as the majority of views expressed coming from European members on this forum, is that Muslim immigration populations are not assimilating and that we are seeing a Europe in its death throes as a result of increasingly large Muslim populations.

As it stands, the only sure method of staving off an untimely death of the Europe as we know it is to curb immigration from most (if not all) Muslim countries.
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: UK Police: EDL Responsible For Islamic Etremism Dec 08, 2010
I agree with the person you quoted (and posted a photo of) - Rabbi Rosen and his repudiation of the Muslim take-over conspiracy.

Note also, that I quoted the Jewish community in the UK who denounced the EDL as racist thugs. Your attempt to counter this fact seems to have come back and bitten you on the posterior - but that's nothing new.

I therefore thank you for quoting him and demonstrating how someone's views can be misrepresented with a bit of spin. Now that he's clarified that he doesn't agree with you - don't you feel a little bit silly for quoting him and making such a fuss that he was agreeing with you?

But then again, perhaps you thought he was/is one of those who advocates racism and uses the Torah to justify it?

However, to be fair, the fault lies not with you, but with the journalist who misrepresented the Rabbi to the extent he had to issue the repudiation quoted above.

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: UK police: EDL responsible for Islamic etremism Dec 09, 2010
Note also, that I quoted the Jewish community in the UK who denounced the EDL as racist thugs.


How so?

Why not compare any 'views' of the EDL you think are representative of the movement to polls taken of Britain's Muslim community.
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

posting in Dubai Politics TalkForum Rules

Return to Dubai Politics Talk