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Well said BB

From personal experience (and I know DD1 also has his own nightmare story) I can confirm that the UAE legal and judicial system is as much use as a chocolate teapot.

From the police right through to the judges there is no due process, no objective investigation, total bias and a complete lack of interest in the 'Rule of Law'. You are guilty until proven innocent. Halas.



Knight

Now DK, come on, you must have been guilty! There is no way that police and judges wouldn't follow due process, investigate objectively, be free of bias or follow the rule of law. Only corrupt expats who don't get away with their crimes would say such a thing! (Note my sarcasm )

I suppose I must have been guilty then!

Dammit!



Knight

Dubai Knight wrote:From personal experience (and I know DD1 also has his own nightmare story) I can confirm that the UAE legal and judicial system is as much use as a chocolate teapot.

From the police right through to the judges there is no due process, no objective investigation, total bias and a complete lack of interest in the 'Rule of Law'. You are guilty until proven innocent. Halas.



Knight

That would all depend on what passport your hold.

I hold one of the 'good ones' but that made absolutely no difference to the Public Prosecutor or the Judge who simply refused to read any of the defense evidence, even though it had been officially translated into Arabic and authenticated.

As the person bringing the case maliciously had absconded on the day of filing, guilt was immediately assumed based on who was left here.

The Judge actually said in court "We ask him when he come back!" Needless to say he has never 'come back' and never will as there are quite a few warrants out for his arrest from banks, government institutions and private individuals. Me included!



Knight

Dubai Knight wrote:I hold one of the 'good ones' but that made absolutely no difference to the Public Prosecutor or the Judge who simply refused to read any of the defense evidence, even though it had been officially translated into Arabic and authenticated.

As the person bringing the case maliciously had absconded on the day of filing, guilt was immediately assumed based on who was left here.

The Judge actually said in court "We ask him when he come back!" Needless to say he has never 'come back' and never will as there are quite a few warrants out for his arrest from banks, government institutions and private individuals. Me included!



Knight

"Good passport", wrong place.

Bora Bora wrote:

uaekid wrote:

kanelli wrote:I find it so amusing that anyone could defend the UAE legal system. There is tons of evidence that it is not fair - the judgments are as reliable as the wind.

thats the problem of ppl like you kanelli ! you are as bad as the legal system here they steal ,commit frauds escape from their responsibilities and financial dues, and blame the system why its being fair to them. well it shouldn't in my opinion at least bcz those have not been fair to the business and society they were among.. they broke the codes of ethics and principles.

this is not intended to herve but to ppl who do wrong and expects rights.

Kid, in all honesty, weren't/aren't there a number of Emiratis who spent some time at the all expenses paid facility provided by the government? And I'm not talking about the drug users/dealers. I'm talking about the businessmen who were either responsible or involved in the very fraud and thief you refer to? They were striped of their positions and if not, were given limited,if any, authority to act on behalf of the company. Also might add that the majority worked for government-owned companies. Even upon being released passports were confiscated to ensure that they did not leave the country. The difference is, their trials and investigations are very behind the scene and kept hush-hush because how would that look to the outside world?

Let's take a look at a privately-held company. Damas - owned by 3 Emirati brothers. Their crime was a non-violent one by they were found guilty of theft and fraud. They got caught because they were listed with DIFC and traded. Didn't they know that they would be subject to be audited, especially when they had shareholders that they had to be accountable to? Had they not registered with DIFC their fraud and theft would never have been found out. You can't register with an authority, sells shares, trade shares and operate "business as usual". Why do you think private local companies do not want to go public? Going public means accountability and transparency. Answering to people who invested in the company.

Dubai Financial Services Authority has issued a landmark ruling that fined the three brothers who ran the Nasdaq-listed Damas jewelry company more than $3 million and requires them to repay $99 million in cash and almost two tonnes of gold ‘borrowed’ from the group.

For their part the Damas bosses – Tawfique, Tawhid and Tamjid Abdullah – have previously promised to pay back all the monies taken from Damas and are now under court order to fulfill this promise.

The regulator discovered some 2,200 debit transactions between July 2008 and October 2009 ranging from petrol bills to 50 property deals, including twin 49-storey towers on the Sheikh Zayed Road. The two tonnes of gold, which has not yet been paid back was used to make ‘certain personal investments’ reported the DFSA.

I'm sure you are going to want a link to the above, so here it is: http://www.arabianmoney.net/gold-silver ... l-missing/

No time served in jail, just a promise to payback what they "borrowed". Do they get to keep the property? In the US it's called white collar crime, and generally the sentencing requires payback, confiscating of all properties through ill-gotten gains, and a prison term. Highly unlikely they are going to lose the property or serve time in jail.

Fraud, corruption, thief is how too many Emiratis have gained their wealth. And, yes, expats have played a part in it as well, and just to add: many expats were used as scapegoats by Emiratis.

I would find it hard to believe that the "average" Emirati who is thankful for what they have, or are knee deep in debt, doesn't resent the actions of some of their fellow countrymen. Not because they didn't have the opportunity to commit the same crimes, but because of the shame that is brought about due to their devious ways. There are by far more good Emiratis than there are bad, as there are by far more good expats than there are bad.

thats why I said "you are as bad as the legal system here" and bora I'm not about to start pointing fingers here and there or discuses who is the best nation or country, we have enough of these threads on DF...

you named 1 case and I can name a dozen but its not the case here , the one responsible in this case simply left... guilty or not.. he left... and yes ppl buy there way out with money and power, isn't that the real world we live in ? that include emaraties , they are not angels you know . the point is ,if you respect your self and the law then you wont have to worry about how bad or good the system is dear.

uaekid, that post was utter nonsense. Especially this gem, "the point is ,if you respect your self and the law then you wont have to worry about how bad or good the system is dear."

you named 1 case and I can name a dozen but its not the case here , the one responsible in this case simply left... guilty or not.. he left....

What does guilt or not have to do with leaving the country?? We are not imprisoned here (well some are) and we choose to come to the region, and we choose to leave (well most of us do).

the point is ,if you respect your self and the law then you wont have to worry about how bad or good the system is dear.

It's not the law that is the issue Kid, it's the justice system. There are people imprisoned who had no problems with the laws, it is the justice system that they are having problems with.

How's this for a law: if I'm driving on SZR at 100 km/h and someone has chosen my car to jump in front of, I am arrested for murder, because that's the law. I then become responsible for paying blood money to his family in spite of the fact that he committed suicide with the intent that his family would financially benefit from it. (I have also paid extra to have that as part of my car insurance.) So there is an investigation and it's determined that I didn't actually commit murder, but I'm still responsible for the blood money because I am the person who "caused his death". I was driving within the allowed speed limit and had no control over the situation. Did I disrespect the law? No. But I do have to worry about the justice system and how they handle it. I end up paying blood money because someone commits suicide in an Islamic country, where suicide is not acceptable in Islam. This would play out completely different in developed countries.

Another one: there is a car accident and I am present. The car is on fire and there is a person in the car struggling to get out, clearly injured. I go over and help that person but he dies from his injuries. I am arrested for murder because I was the last one who "touched" him, because that's the law. Again, this would be played out different in developed countries.

Bora Bora wrote:

you named 1 case and I can name a dozen but its not the case here , the one responsible in this case simply left... guilty or not.. he left....

What does guilt or not have to do with leaving the country?? We are not imprisoned here (well some are) and we choose to come to the region, and we choose to leave (well most of us do).

the point is ,if you respect your self and the law then you wont have to worry about how bad or good the system is dear.

It's not the law that is the issue Kid, it's the justice system. There are people imprisoned who had no problems with the laws, it is the justice system that they are having problems with.

How's this for a law: if I'm driving on SZR at 100 km/h and someone has chosen my car to jump in front of, I am arrested for murder, because that's the law. I then become responsible for paying blood money to his family in spite of the fact that he committed suicide with the intent that his family would financially benefit from it. (I have also paid extra to have that as part of my car insurance.) So there is an investigation and it's determined that I didn't actually commit murder, but I'm still responsible for the blood money because I am the person who "caused his death". I was driving within the allowed speed limit and had no control over the situation. Did I disrespect the law? No. But I do have to worry about the justice system and how they handle it. I end up paying blood money because someone commits suicide in an Islamic country, where suicide is not acceptable in Islam. This would play out completely different in developed countries.

Another one: there is a car accident and I am present. The car is on fire and there is a person in the car struggling to get out, clearly injured. I go over and help that person but he dies from his injuries. I am arrested for murder because I was the last one who "touched" him, because that's the law. Again, this would be played out different in developed countries.

I thought this thread is about herve and his situation but let hijack it

I cant see how would you determine if a "dead guy" was trying to commit suicide or was a "pedestrian", not unless he had a suicide note in his pocket ...but in any how its the insurance that pays it not you, I think.

and I my self asked about helping an injured driver, yes will be guilty if for example had a broken neck you are not suppose to move him unless you stabilize his head. there are many ways that you could end up making matters worse by helping an injured person if you are not qualified .. even paramedics asks a couple of questions before helping him or physically moving him .

I would guess there is a country with flawless laws some where but it aint yours hon, the US has the worst one ever so leave it those with the perfects laws to brag about it. your is as bad as ours .but again yes the law here need many improvements no question about it. but you, me, we and they have to live with it or the other option of moving to a "developed countries" bcz changing all laws to suit every one will take a long time.

however, AD is now making some changes to develop new Specialized courts bcz the main problem was a one judge one court system that handles all kind of crimes or disputes .. hopefully this help us to a developed country and you running over a pedestrian

Thats a very reasonable response from Kid, who admits his country isn't perfect. But as he says, where is? Yes, he is also right when he said this topic was about Herve and giving him the opportunity to debate his book and answer his critics. I must spend some time reading further this weekend. It is proving to be a very entertaining read.

Bethsmum wrote:Thats a very reasonable response from Kid, who admits his country isn't perfect. But as he says, where is? Yes, he is also right when he said this topic was about Herve and giving him the opportunity to debate his book and answer his critics. I must spend some time reading further this weekend. It is proving to be a very entertaining read.

Maybe for those who have a thing for Frenchies, and james bond impersonators to boot, ms moneypenny BM.

BM Licensed to thrill

Hello, Bora. What other books?

Bora Bora wrote:Let me get it back on topic.

Herve, I once said somewhere along the line that when you came out with your story it was probably bad timing - Dubai was great, people still making tons of money, all was great. Had you revealed your story when Dubai started to crash and the stories were flying, people probably would have been hungry to read your book, which had yet to be published.

When I went back to the states I tried to get it in a couple of stores, without success. Knowing what I know now, I would certainly be interested in reading it, especially since I have read other books that were allowed to reveal certain activies and got past the censors.

Waiting for BM's review. I still plan on getting it.

Whatever you do Bora, don't make him angry.
Welcome BB2.

brucebanner wrote:Hello, Bora. What other books?

Bora Bora wrote:Let me get it back on topic.

Herve, I once said somewhere along the line that when you came out with your story it was probably bad timing - Dubai was great, people still making tons of money, all was great. Had you revealed your story when Dubai started to crash and the stories were flying, people probably would have been hungry to read your book, which had yet to be published.

When I went back to the states I tried to get it in a couple of stores, without success. Knowing what I know now, I would certainly be interested in reading it, especially since I have read other books that were allowed to reveal certain activies and got past the censors.

Waiting for BM's review. I still plan on getting it.

Having re-read my post I guess I jumped the gun on say the books got past the censors. Actually I bought them in Dubai, so I'm sure the weren't very revealing.

And well BB2. Don't ever forget that I am the original BB!!!

One book was called "Rigged". Not well written, but the story itself was interesting about how Dubai NASDAQ came about.

Its refreshing to see UAEKid actually accept that something here is not 'perfect' however the one major difference between here and the rest of the civilised world is that, once someone points out a flaw in a point of law or there is a test case to see how it is fully interpreted, then they generally change the law for the greater good.

The blood money clause even if the dead person clearly committed suicide and holding someone responsible for the consequential death of another, despite the fact that they would certainly have died on the spot without any assistance, have been in place for years and years and have never been modified.



Knight

Dubai Knight wrote:Its refreshing to see UAEKid actually accept that something here is not 'perfect' however the one major difference between here and the rest of the civilised world is that, once someone points out a flaw in a point of law or there is a test case to see how it is fully interpreted, then they generally change the law for the greater good.

The blood money clause even if the dead person clearly committed suicide and holding someone responsible for the consequential death of another, despite the fact that they would certainly have died on the spot without any assistance, have been in place for years and years and have never been modified.



Knight

I still can't see how would you determine that he "clearly committed suicide" unless there are witnesses or cctv some where . blood money is like any accident claims but with a diff name.

aaaah check out what the civilized world think of their own laws including the UK, use youtube.. when you'll find a perfect one,let me know so we'll benchmark it

Yes Kid you couldn't be more correct about the laws in the UK. Take Abu Hamza, he hates us all, and is in prison in Belmarsh. Do we boot him out? No. We let him keep his UK passport, because we can't make the poor man stateless as the Egyptians got in first. Instead we pay to have his cell more comfortable and pay to house his wifey and 8 children in a modernised house somewhere near Central London. Would that happen in the UAE, no, he'd be out on his ear. Who's the daftest?

OK, here is a specific instance in which I was a material witness:

Al Khail Road at Ras Al Khor industrial area heading back towards Dubai. The traffic is moving consistently between 110 and 120kmph. There is a concrete wall barrier in the central reservation. A pale blue boiler suited labourer is standing on top of the concrete wall watching the traffic. When there is a suitable gap, he jumps down into the fast lane and stands, eyes closed with his hands by his side, directly in the path of an oncoming Totota Echo. The driver has no chance and, despite slamming on the brakes and trying to avoid, hits the guy.

I am 2 lanes over and witness the whole thing.

I am not sure if you have seen the damage a car travelling at that speed does to a human body? Its not pretty. Bits get ripped off.

The body is flung in the air and lands in the next lane. Cars swerving everywhere to avoid, nearly causing multiple accidents. We all stop, but there is nothing to be done for the labourer. He is dead at the scene.

The poor Syrian businessman who is driving the Echo is in total shock, his car is virtually a write off with the whole front end wiped out, the windscreen and roof pillar destroyed where the victim's head impacted. The police and an ambulance arrive, details and statements taken, the various part of car and person removed however the police spend more time trying to disperse the massive crowd of rubber neckers who have gathered at the side of the road than trying to control traffic.

2 days later, I get a call to come to the police station to give a further statement, which I am very happy to do. During the interview, it turns out that they have arrested the Syrian driver as the labourer's family have insisted on blood money as his insurance did not cover it but he was a successful businessman and comparatively wealthy! It also turns out the labourer owed several thousand dirhams to an agent in India who got him the job in Dubai as well as gambling debts run up in the labour camp. Even though I, and several other witnesses, confirmed that the man made no attempt to cross the road or avoid the oncoming vehicle, the Syrian ended up in court. 6 witnesses turned up at the court, including me, to testify on behalf of the Syrian. It made absolutely no difference.

Even though the police provided all the circumstantial evidence about the labourers financial situation, this fell on deaf ears. Our witness statements were ignored and not even permitted to be read in court. Despite us being there in person, we were not allowed to testify. the judge obviously had another engagement to go to. The only question he asked the Syrian defendant was "Were you the driver of the car?" The answer was obviously yes. He was fined 1,500dhs, had black points added to his license and then made to pay 10,000dhs blood money!!

Tell me, where is the impartiality here?

In the UK, the job of a 'Judge' is to look at all the evidence and then make an objective and unbiased ruling based upon firmly defined legal precedents. In more serious cases, there is a further impartial body of 12 randomly selected jurors who have to make a decision based purely on the facts of the case. In this instance, it is the judges job to brief them and guide them on the facts of the law and then pronounce sentence if the accused is found to be guilty. There are defined rules for this also.

This called the 'Rule of Law'.



Knight

@DK.

Did they check the laborer's pockets for a suicide note? According to Kid that would be all the evidence needed.

@ Kid.

This business of jumping in front of a car had become a "trend" along SZR where it has happening a couple of times a week. A girl I worked with was involved in one of these situations. The laborer jumped off the divide and his shoe got caught in the fencing. This "helped" the police to determine it was suicide. She spent the night in jail, much shorter time because her sister had wasta, had to pay blood money, was never able to get behind the wheel of a car, and to this day carry's the image of than man throwing himself in front of her car and her hitting him.

Ever since hearing this story I drive in the middle lane thinking that it would be quite a leap for a laborer to find himself in front of my car.

There was no suicide note. He was illiterate.



Knight

Do you know that blood money is half when the deceased is a woman.......

Without having read the book, I can honestly say that Herve did the smartest thing he could. There is a picture of Herve with the MD of a certain island development, and I have to say that I have done business with him as well. Not sure why a (then) 28 year old was running that show. Regardless of the facts, Herve would have been found guilty here, no question. Before I even set foot in court here, my lawyer said if the party I was suing came up with any "evidence" or anything with my signature, we would take it to the central labs, as forged documents are common here. He also knows people in forensics, so we would be assured the result would be accurate.

The other party asked for a court "specialist" to examine the documents and case. When I went to this "expert's" office, it was a ing, non-air conditioned office in Deira. I was told I would be called to submit my papers at a later date. I was never called, but the other party was. Court of first instance threw this "expert testimony" out. I won in court of first instance.

It took nearly 2 years for a chance to call witnesses, and at the Appeals Court level (they appealed) the judge asked my parade of witnesses all the right questions, and I asked the opposing parties' "witnesses" all the right questions (I even made one guy cry!) The appeals court awarded me 150% of the lower court's judgement.

In two weeks, I am addressing the Supreme Court. My case is very slam-dunk, so I am not that worried, and in fact, it gives me a chance to ask for 9% interest per annum (ker-ching). The thing is, the people I am suing have millions behind them, have an army of lawyers and can just delay as long as they like. My lawyer is so shocked, as it would now have cost them as much in legal fees as it would have to pay me! Other people that got screwed by the people I am suing were just grateful to get a ticket home.

Keep in mind, mine is a labour case NOT a criminal case, but goes to show you how people can bastardize the system here if they have money. And just an FYI, there is a very easy way to leave the country undetected, I did it by accident last year, apparently, as coming "back" was a real pain. If I was ever in Herve's spot, I would know how to do it again and the opportunity only presents itself about 4 months a year!

You are to receive a lot of PMs for that information dubaidog, I get a couple of emails every week for help to an easy way out.

herve wrote:You are to receive a lot of PMs for that information dubaidog, I get a couple of emails every week for help to an easy way out.

None yet...will keep you posted.

uaekid, now you understand why I escaped..........
How long do you think Dubai will be able to prevent the truth to come out, to survive the fraud, the lies, the cover ups, the debts.
How does it feel to belong to country that everybody calls a sand pit, we all can see on DF, that you are very poor in arguments to prove otherwise.

After that, they won't let him write letters from the prison.