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Ok my first post in politics. I hate to be the guy that posts the link, but I would be curious what our resident Muslims think of this? The death sentence was upheld moments ago. Personally, I think this is the last thing Pakistan or Islam needs. No where in the Holy Book does it say that a death sentence is a suitable punishment. These wacko clerics need to get in check. The last 5 lines is what shocks me. Discuss.....

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiap ... tml?hpt=T1

Itan Wali, Pakistan (CNN) -- In this village in Pakistan's Punjab province a tearful 12-year-old girl ponders if the Pakistani government will soon hang her mother.

"Whenever I see her picture I cry," Isham Masih told CNN. "I want my mother back. That's what I'm praying for."

This month a Pakistani court sentenced Isham's mother, 45-year-old Asia Bibi, to death, not because she killed, injured or stole, but simply because she said something.

Prosecutors say Bibi, who is a Christian, broke Pakistan's strict blasphemy law by insulting Islam and the prophet Muhammad, a crime punishable by death or life imprisonment according to Pakistan's penal code.

The alleged incident happened in June 2009 when Bibi, a field worker, was picking fruit in a village two hours west of Lahore. Prosecutors say when Bibi dipped her cup into a bucket of drinking water during a lunch break, her co-workers complained the water had been contaminated by a non-Muslim.

Court records show the women got into a heated argument.

Magia Satar said she was there and heard Bibi's insults.

"She said your Muhammad had worms in his mouth before he died," Satar told CNN, a crude way of saying Muhammad was no prophet.

The town cleric, Qari Muhammad Salim, reported the incident to police who arrested Bibi. After nearly 15 months in prison came her conviction and the death sentence.

"When I heard the decision my heart ached," Bibi's husband Ashiq Masih told CNN.

Masih denies his wife ever insulted Muhammad. He said death threats forced him and his daughters, one of them disabled, to flee their village.

Neither the Koran nor the prophet Muhammad's teachings in the Hadith call for the execution of blasphemers, but Islamic scholars and jurists from generations past included the death sentence when drafting Islamic law.

Human rights groups have long blamed Pakistan's blasphemy laws for persecution and violence against religious minorities like last year's attack on a Christian village in Punjab Province and recent bombings of minority Muslim mosques.

Activists say the government has refused to amend the law for fear of backlash from Islamist groups and their followers who deem scrapping the law as un-Islamic.

At the time this report was filed, Pakistan's law minister had not responded to CNN's request for an interview.

Bibi has appealed her death sentence and asked for bail, the chief prosecutor of Punjab province told CNN.

The prosecutor, Chaudhry Muhammad Jahangir, said the appeal will be heard by the Lahore High court and a decision could be months away.

Pakistan has never executed someone convicted of blasphemy but in Bibi's village public opinion was unanimous.

"Yes, she should be hanged," a group of villagers cried out.

The town cleric, who made the initial complaint against Bibi, called her death sentence one of the happiest moments of his life.

"Tears of joy poured from my eyes," Qari Salim told CNN.

The clerics tears are in stark contrast to those shed by Bibi's daughter Isha, who wants her mother to live.

Blimey DD

Great post for your first one in here mate. It is a really interesting subject, and i also look to hear comments from our more knowledgeable members what they have to say on this.

nice one DD

Pakistan is a failed state on so many levels its not even funny. What really is sad is that woman is accused of blasphemy. Now afaik a Muslim can only be blasphemous against Islam and Christian against Christianity. So how does this even apply

It is quite fugged up isn't it. Sadly this kind of crap is not uncommon. I hope this isn't actually carried out and someone steps in. The funny thing is there is no such "Islamic law" of anykind. And as already said how can this be considered blasphemy when she is Christian ?

Mostly its the doing of illitrate tribals seeking vengence or plain and simple intolerance.
Just to give you an example of the amount of dumbassery that goes on there. A number of people were killed in a village over who would conduct Eid prayers this wednesday One group said theri man would another said no theirs would, heated words are exchanged and very soon weapons drawn. And before you know you it. You have people dead !

Pakistan is basicaly is mostly lawless and a country mostly filled with ignorance. Trust me I know ! In the old days when there were still refundable coke bottles here, I saw fresh off the boat people refusing to drink bottled coke ?! When asked why, they said some Hindu or Christian might have drank from it before !

It is sad fact and some might not like to hear it even, that in Pakistan most Christians are considered second class citizens and very rarely one not doing the dirtiest of jobs. Mostly the poor illiterate are confined to jobs like picking up trash and cleaning sewers and this I have seen with my own eyes and mostly considerd "untouchable" by the ignorants.

And a small FYI Pakistan although Muslim majority was originaly created to be a secular state, the founder of Pakistan Jinnah was very adament about that. It was only during the late 70's and early 80's Zia brought in his own brand of Islamic law into the country.

I think it is the only country in the world now that requires you denouce a certian sect when applying for a passport and also the only one I think that has your religion printed along with ones personal details on ones passport .

Sick.

The problem is with some Mullahs who have distorted Islam for their own benefit. There is no punishment in the Quran, Sunnah or Hadith for those who commit blasphemy - God is pretty clear about that.

What applies to Salman Rushdie applies here too:

Editorial: Blasphemy and Apostasy

The fair name of Islam has recently been darkened by the murderous directive issued by certain Muslim leaders and endorsed by their supporters that Salman Rusdhie must be assassinated as a result of his making blasphemous remarks about the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) in his book Satanic Verses.

No doubt Salman Rushdie has been guilty of blasphemy but this is not an offence for which the death penalty is prescribed by Islam. Not at all. No such instruction is contained in the holy Quran and it is a significant point to bear in mind that not one protagonist demanding his assassination has quoted a single verse from the Holy Quran as a basis of authority.

No Prophet of God was more blasphemed, maligned, insulted and abused during his life-time than the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. He and his faithful followers were subjected to every kind of verbal invective and physical harrassment. He was forced to migrate from Mecca to Medina due to the severity of persecution by the Meccans. Ten years later he returned to Mecca with ten thousand followers who could have taken the town by storm but the Holy Prophetsaw forbade any bloodshed. Much to the amazement of the Meccans he forgave them their cruel enormities and this was his general attitude throughout his life towards his enemies and blasphemous opponents. All Muslims look upon the Holy Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, as a perfect exemplar for mankind and they would do well to be moved and guided by his noble example.

...
Human rights are laid own in the Holy Quran which guarantee man the right of perfect freedom of faith and conscience. In such matters God is the Judge - not man. Our constant prayer is Guide us on the Right Path. (1:6) - Amen.

http://www.alislam.org/library/links/apostate.html

Cheers,
Shafique

It is just shocking to me that country in such a state of disrepair does not quash this radical tribal law. Obviously, it makes front page news globally and it just hurts the innocents even more.

It's actually a sign of a weak government - IMO. The politicians need the rabble-rousing mullahs on their side - that is why Bhutto etc did not revoke the laws imposed by Zia when they had a chance.

I mean, you have people actually convinced that blowing up Shia or Ahmadi worshippers in mosques is somehow Islamic (and actually an act of piety).. and it is the mullahs who are inciting these acts of hatred.



Cheers,
Shafique

The problem is wide spread corruption from the very bottom right up to the top. And anyone with a beard is considered a Mullah. There are no checks and balances etc etc.

It is truly the wild west. I had the misfortune of staying in that country for 4 months at the end of 1997 and there wasn't a day that went by there wasn't a serious or violent crime and this is only in the street where I was staying ! And this is Karachi one of its biggest cities. I cannot even phatom what goes on in the tribal northwest and rural areas.

I think they should just give it back to the British. Even they wouldn't want it now !

Here's a good thread on Islam's ruling on blasphemy:

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809

As usual, one must choose to believe the google scholars or actual scholars.

A lack of education and lack of regard for human life seem to be crucial factors here. Too much poverty and conflict perpetuates ignorance and a low level of human ethics. I am thinking of the Human Scale Development of Max-Neef which identifies fundamental human needs as subsistence, protection, affection, understanding, participation, leisure, creation, identity, and freedom. Deficiencies in any of these can impact the others.

Some people claim that religion is the answer to everything, but in the end the religion is corrupted and used as a weapon to inflict more suffering.

^kanelli - I totally agree. This is indeed the case in Pakistan - as dds describes. All religions have been corrupted.

I would just counter that religion is the worst way of choosing to live one's life - except for all the other ways.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote: All religions have been corrupted.

I don't think there are many radical Buddhists.

[Apologies dd - I hit edit when I meant to hit quote - and accidentally deleted your post... sorry , shafique]

I would say they act like cult leaders because they are making their own brand of "religion" and brainwashing those around them. Clearly there isn't much tolerance for anyone not believing...

There is a scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail where the villagers are claiming Connie Booth is a witch.

Sounds exactly like Pakistan?



Knight

LOL

That and the stoning scene in Life of Brian with the women in beards!

Cheers,
Shafique

dubaidog wrote:

shafique wrote: All religions have been corrupted.

I don't think there are many radical Buddhists.

Even they have their extremist fringe (3 monks were killed over a controversy in the 90s by other monks - so killing in the name of religion!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorje_Shugden_controversy

Thankfully they are indeed quite rare - but certainly it is mind boggling to think that a peaceful philosophy like Buddhism - which teaches detatchment even from religious teachings - can be used as an excuse to kill another human over a point of theology, but there you have it.. it can.

(Again sorry for inadvertantly deleting the rest of your excellent post. Bad mod, bad mod... )

Cheers,
Shafique

Man gunned down in Pakistan after being granted bail for blasphemy:

A man accused of blasphemy was shot and killed near his home in the eastern Pakistani city of Lahore shortly after being granted bail by a court, according to a media report.

Imran Latif, 22, was accused of burning pages of the Quran in a case registered at Sherakot police station in Lahore and spent five months in jail.

He was released on bail on November 3 after the man who filed the complaint of blasphemy told the court he was not sure that Latif was guilty.

Latif was shot by armed men near his home on November 11 but police learnt only later that he had been accused of blasphemy, the Express Tribune newspaper reported.

Inspector Rafique Ahmed, who is investigating the murder, said Latif's killing was likely linked to the blasphemy case. "No Muslim tolerates a man who commits blasphemous acts," he said.

Latif's family had not mentioned the blasphemy case when they reported the murder, he said.

Latif's 60-year-old mother Sharifan said two men armed with pistols had knocked at the door of their house near Pir Makki shrine on November 11 and asked Latif to accompany them.

"A few yards from the house, they suddenly opened fire," she said. She said her son was shot five times and the attackers fled on a motorcycle.

Even they have their extremist fringe (3 monks were killed over a controversy in the 90s by other monks - so killing in the name of religion!)

Don't think we need to go to the mid-90's to find adherents of the religion of peace shooting at each other over a religious dispute:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 57,00.html

It's a religion of peace thing, you wouldn't understand

dubaidog wrote:

shafique wrote: All religions have been corrupted.

I don't think there are many radical Buddhists.

[Apologies dd - I hit edit when I meant to hit quote - and accidentally deleted your post... sorry , shafique]

Too witty a post for you, Shaf? Accidents happen.

I think this is truly a tragic story. But sadly what can we expect from such a place, where everything is so messed up, people are uneducated and will believe everything they hear/see.

These hardcore Mullahs should be ashamed of themselves and the global community really needs to do something about it.

dubaidog wrote:It is just shocking to me that country in such a state of disrepair does not quash this radical tribal law. Obviously, it makes front page news globally and it just hurts the innocents even more.

if you are referring to this case that no it wasnt a radical tribal law! this "crime" occured in punjab not the tribal belt of Pakistan/Afghanistan.

this is what Pakistan is ALL about! This is not Islam. You think they are muslim because they have beard, a muslim name and dress even like a muslim but they will not act like a muslim i.e pray 5 times etc!

These guys have built shrines across pakistan and the things that go on at these shrines are not islamic!

makes you think that all conspiracies of Israel/India trying to destroy Pakistan could be true when you come across such guys! makes you think twice are these guys really muslims and really Pakistani!

-- Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:33 pm --

Chocoholic wrote:I think this is truly a tragic story. But sadly what can we expect from such a place, where everything is so messed up, people are uneducated and will believe everything they hear/see.

These hardcore Mullahs should be ashamed of themselves and the global community really needs to do something about it.

dont think the global community should do anything as its just going to make more mess! pakistanis have created this mess for themselves and they should grow up and sort out their own mess!

-- Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:45 pm --

Pakistan is a lawless country because of corruption like DD said. Its a nuclear state but its police doesnt even have a forensic set-up and your local police dont even carry weapons, they carry sticks made of wood!

And when people say that we should invest in your internall security like the police, the army would barge in and go oh we dont need to invest in our police, we need to invest more in aeroplanes, more in tanks and more in the army to protect Pakistans borders. And we all know who ends up supplying the aeroplanes and tanks to pakistan dont we now

http://misl.org/aviation/index.php?opti ... icle&id=35

makes you think that with $495 million you could have sorted out the the countries internal security, education and even set up a power plant! but i guess the USA doesnt give a toss about that they only care about business and money, thats why USA is an inc!

Do you think that USA wants peace between Pakistan and India. Think again especially when they just got $495 million in their kitty!!!

Everyone should watch the movie Four Lions...serious topic, seriously funny film!



Knight

^I second that - v funny, and yet treats the subject head on.



(A word of advice- don't watch the trailer, I saw it before I saw the trailer and I'm glad I did - the trailer is a bit too revealing IMO)

"I just took a photo of my face, and it definitely isn't my confused face" LMAO

Cheers,
Shafique

" How about we blow up Boots...cos they sell condoms an' that, what makes us want to shag white women!"

"I know, let's blow up the internet!"

Priceless!!



Knight