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Dubai, FDI destination of Choice: A comprehensive report conducted by the Foreign Investment Office, part of Dubai Department of Economic Development, that surveyed C-Level executives of fortune 1000 companies on their future investment plans.

The report shows confidence remaining high amongst potential future investors.

http://www.dubaided.gov.ae/FDIReport

I think too many people havebeen burned badly and the negative international bad press and huge debts also doesn't help. Dubai has a future but it seriously needs to overhaul its laws and regulations, scrap the pointless sponsorship system and get some proper investor protection in place.

Nothing will happen until even a CEO of big company can end up in the endless penal system for something so small as a 5000 dhs bounced cheque.

And what about all the people who have already invested here and have been delivered nothing but empty plots in the sea or half cooked towers with no resolve in sight.

I think anyone who invests here without taking any of these factors into consideration is just asking for trouble.

And the title of the report as presented by dubaided.gov is misleading at best. The report never claims Dubai, but UAE and I think Abu Dhabi has the biggest role to play in that, as Abu Dhabi is still swimming in the petro dollar surplus specially as most part of the last decade the high oil prices fattened up the coffers nicely.

Pushing through mega projects, schemes and companies. But I think if they are not carefull they could turn into another Dubai, although not as bad as backed up pretty well with oil money, I could be wrong on this but thats the way I see,

Also what happens once all of these projects are completed ? Then what, AFAIK there is still no freehold in Abu Dhabi or any sort of residency plan attached to these developments. And all of these are just out reach of the average expat living here anyway.

http://www.atkearney.com/index.php/publ ... index.html

Well put DD2 and spot on on your appraise.

desertdudeshj wrote:I think too many people havebeen burned badly and the negative international bad press and huge debts also doesn't help. Dubai has a future but it seriously needs to overhaul its laws and regulations, scrap the pointless sponsorship system and get some proper investor protection in place.

Nothing will happen until even a CEO of big company can end up in the endless penal system for something so small as a 5000 dhs bounced cheque.

And what about all the people who have already invested here and have been delivered nothing but empty plots in the sea or half cooked towers with no resolve in sight.

I think anyone who invests here without taking any of these factors into consideration is just asking for trouble.

And the title of the report as presented by dubaided.gov is misleading at best. The report never claims Dubai, but UAE and I think Abu Dhabi has the biggest role to play in that, as Abu Dhabi is still swimming in the petro dollar surplus specially as most part of the last decade the high oil prices fattened up the coffers nicely.

Pushing through mega projects, schemes and companies. But I think if they are not carefull they could turn into another Dubai, although not as bad as backed up pretty well with oil money, I could be wrong on this but thats the way I see,

Also what happens once all of these projects are completed ? Then what, AFAIK there is still no freehold in Abu Dhabi or any sort of residency plan attached to these developments. And all of these are just out reach of the average expat living here anyway.

http://www.atkearney.com/index.php/publ ... index.html

arniegang wrote:Well put DD2 and spot on on your appraise.

Well judging by both your comments, it’s patently obvious that neither of you have taken the time to read the actual report, the article has nothing to do with buying your next holiday home and is peppered with references from AT Kearney and in fact includes The Foreign Direct Investment Confidence Index you posted an additional link to DDS.

Dubai has a huge debt and many issues that need to be resolved and not only with it’s Real Estate industry, this I think you would have to be either irresponsible, negligent or blind not to recognise but the report I posted a link to was about the confidence, in Dubai, of level 3 executives within Fortune 1000 Companies. Yes, statistics can be manipulated, and I’m not suggesting by my post that the report is as positive as the presented statistics claim, I am a realist, but the overall essence of the report is positive and good for Dubai in particular, and the wider MENA region.

Regards

Yes I'll be honest I didn't read beyond the first paragraph and I usually don't bother with anything comming out of the big PR machine. The first line itself "Foreign Investment Office, part of Dubai Department of Economic Development" and there it loses all credibilty.

DD2 is correct

anyone who takes any noticed of any published the govenrment literature or statistic or any of its PR companies is pointless because everyone knows 90% of the content is liken to a Modern Fair Fables' but where the ends is based on fantasy and spin.

I really think it a shame that people can't give an unbiased opinion on Dubai.

An unbaised opinion is from someone who has lived here all his life and see all aspects and corner of this country and its society from all angles.

A biased opinion is from someone who just vists occasionaly and stays in a glitzy tower in an isolated and what was supposed to be the posh part of town.

desertdudeshj wrote:An unbaised opinion is from someone who has lived here all his life and see all aspects and corner of this country and its society from all angles.

A biased opinion is from someone who just vists occasionaly and stays in a glitzy tower in an isolated and what was supposed to be the posh part of town.

So, when a tourist on a 3 days stay at the Meridien says that the water at the beach is a soup of salty sludge contaminated hot water it is a biased opinion.
But the guy who lived there all his life, who knows that the water was not like that before the developments and the desalination plant, says otherwise it is an unbiased opinion.

Thats funny, I hadn't realised I'd chosen to share my opinion, but rest assured DDS, if I did venture an opinion, I would have made sure I had read the article I was commenting on and not launched into a load of blah blah just for the hell of it. That's what I mean about an unbiased opinion, you see, you hadn't even bothered to read it.
As for me and where I choose to buy property, isn't that a personal comment? What's it got to do with this topic?

herve wrote:

desertdudeshj wrote:An unbaised opinion is from someone who has lived here all his life and see all aspects and corner of this country and its society from all angles.

A biased opinion is from someone who just vists occasionaly and stays in a glitzy tower in an isolated and what was supposed to be the posh part of town.

So, when a tourist on a 3 days stay at the Meridien says that the water at the beach is a soup of salty sludge contaminated hot water it is a biased opinion.
But the guy who lived there all his life, who knows that the water was not like that before the developments and the desalination plant, says otherwise it is an unbiased opinion.

No herve you got me all wrong mate. I was saying exactly the opposite, like when someones comes to visit just sees the glitzy exterior facade and then wonders why people are saying all these negative things, when to him it just seems to be a fine and dandy place.

desertdudeshj wrote:

herve wrote:

desertdudeshj wrote:An unbaised opinion is from someone who has lived here all his life and see all aspects and corner of this country and its society from all angles.

A biased opinion is from someone who just vists occasionaly and stays in a glitzy tower in an isolated and what was supposed to be the posh part of town.

So, when a tourist on a 3 days stay at the Meridien says that the water at the beach is a soup of salty sludge contaminated hot water it is a biased opinion.
But the guy who lived there all his life, who knows that the water was not like that before the developments and the desalination plant, says otherwise it is an unbiased opinion.

No herve you got me all wrong mate. I was saying exactly the opposite, like when someones comes to visit just sees the glitzy exterior facade and then wonders why people are saying all these negative things, when to him it just seems to be a fine and dandy place.

oh ok, got you DD,
to me, those who say Dubai is great are either in denial or have an interest to say so.

Cheers bud !

=

Bethsmum wrote:Thats funny, I hadn't realised I'd chosen to share my opinion, but rest assured DDS, if I did venture an opinion, I would have made sure I had read the article I was commenting on and not launched into a load of blah blah just for the hell of it. That's what I mean about an unbiased opinion, you see, you hadn't even bothered to read it.
As for me and where I choose to buy property, isn't that a personal comment? What's it got to do with this topic?

According to our in-house Professor, it appears that you actually can't form an opinion - biased or unbiased. Based on his logic, you haven't lived here all your life and you don't visit - hence you don't qualify to render an opinion. The fact that you made an investment and call it home puts you somewhere in between. Oh, a tweenie!!!!

Everyone has an opinion. But I think our in-house Professor has two.

Two points to make. First one to DDS, I see you choose not to respond to my post asking what my choice of property purchase has to do with this topic. You still keep slipping back to the personal slights, you just can't maintain your cool can you?
If Dubai is so bad just why do you stay? From past discussions it would seem that your main beef is that no matter how long you stay here you will never be granted citizenship. I wonder if the rules were different and you were to apply for your naturalisation, would you speak differently?
I can understand Herve's hatred of this place but he got out. It's the people who stay and slag the place off that makes me wonder, why bother?
My second point is to Herve. You say that people who don't hate Dubai, must be in denial or have something to promote. I don't have anything to promote. I can't say that I've had a bad experience here, I must be lucky because my life hasn't always been plain sailing.

^^^

Keep fishing until you catch something

I'm not fishing, it's just a simple question. You're banging on and now you are just trying to body swerve the question by turning it on me. If you remember it's you who has done the fishing on me by searching the web for anything I've written. You can't deny it, you were on a fishing trip to JBR community. Now you think you are in the know by being able to post that I'm a visitor. So what? If you can't answer that's fair enough but why not just say so?

Again , lemme know when you have a bite.

Bethsmum wrote:Two points to make. First one to DDS, I see you choose not to respond to my post asking what my choice of property purchase has to do with this topic. You still keep slipping back to the personal slights, you just can't maintain your cool can you?
If Dubai is so bad just why do you stay? From past discussions it would seem that your main beef is that no matter how long you stay here you will never be granted citizenship. I wonder if the rules were different and you were to apply for your naturalisation, would you speak differently?
I can understand Herve's hatred of this place but he got out. It's the people who stay and slag the place off that makes me wonder, why bother?
My second point is to Herve. You say that people who don't hate Dubai, must be in denial or have something to promote. I don't have anything to promote. I can't say that I've had a bad experience here, I must be lucky because my life hasn't always been plain sailing.

BM, I traveled to more than 30 countries. To those who say they like Dubai, I say travel a little more, there are far , I mean far much better places to be.
You have something to promote BM, if Dubai goes down the drain, the value of your property goes with it.

Herve, I have travelled far and wide. My father was in the RAF and my first husband, the British Army. It doesn't really bother me if my property loses value. I paid dhs449,000. It wasn't a fortune. I sold a property in the UK to finance it in 2003, I made a fortune on that deal, unrealistic property prices in the UK at that time. To me it's easy come easy go. As I said I have been lucky this time, not so lucky others. You know what I mean.

Dillon wrote:Well judging by both your comments, it’s patently obvious that neither of you have taken the time to read the actual report, the article has nothing to do with buying your next holiday home and is peppered with references from AT Kearney and in fact includes The Foreign Direct Investment Confidence Index you posted an additional link to DDS.

Dubai has a huge debt and many issues that need to be resolved and not only with it’s Real Estate industry, this I think you would have to be either irresponsible, negligent or blind not to recognise but the report I posted a link to was about the confidence, in Dubai, of level 3 executives within Fortune 1000 Companies. Yes, statistics can be manipulated, and I’m not suggesting by my post that the report is as positive as the presented statistics claim, I am a realist, but the overall essence of the report is positive and good for Dubai in particular, and the wider MENA region.

Regards

Dillon this to you looks like a well conceived intelligent bit of unbiased journalism?

someone needs to get checkeddd...

Firstly who the hell is AT Kearns? How does one attach any validity to his firm?

Secondly the argument put forth is probably the very same fundamentals one has always associated with Dubai. If one turned back the dates and instead of 2010 put 2000, the arguments would be the very same. The article does not take into account current trends whatsoeva...And who on earth are these so called investors?

The numbers state that FDI peaked at 21 billion in 2008 Errr we're nearly in 2011 mate. Now compare that with $316 billion USA received in 2008. The point I'm making is when differences in FDI between countries are so huge how does it matter who figures outside the Top 10 list?
And let's face it the word is going through some what of a recession. After Investors are done with the top 10 destinations which include China, Brazil, India, USA, Germany, Australia... what's left for other countries?

It's almost like saying I ran in a race and came 2nd. The catch being there were only two participants.

Now check this out, the article states that FDI in 2009 was 50% lower than in 2008. So USD 21 billion now becomes 11.5 billion. In 2010 the figure was probably another few percent lower. So do you think a couple billion dollars of FDI is worthy mention Dillon?
Now balance that figure with remittances leaving UAE.

Significantly though Dubai ranks higher than Japan and Hong Kong..wow isn't Japan in a pickle?

desertdudeshj wrote:Again , lemme know when you have a bite.

LOL @ DDS!

Hook, line and sinker.

Misery Called Life wrote:

Dillon wrote:Well judging by both your comments, it’s patently obvious that neither of you have taken the time to read the actual report, the article has nothing to do with buying your next holiday home and is peppered with references from AT Kearney and in fact includes The Foreign Direct Investment Confidence Index you posted an additional link to DDS.

Dubai has a huge debt and many issues that need to be resolved and not only with it’s Real Estate industry, this I think you would have to be either irresponsible, negligent or blind not to recognise but the report I posted a link to was about the confidence, in Dubai, of level 3 executives within Fortune 1000 Companies. Yes, statistics can be manipulated, and I’m not suggesting by my post that the report is as positive as the presented statistics claim, I am a realist, but the overall essence of the report is positive and good for Dubai in particular, and the wider MENA region.

Regards

Dillon this to you looks like a well conceived intelligent bit of unbiased journalism?

someone needs to get checkeddd...

Firstly who the hell is AT Kearns? How does one attach any validity to his firm?

Secondly the argument put forth is probably the very same fundamentals one has always associated with Dubai. If one turned back the dates and instead of 2010 put 2000, the arguments would be the very same. The article does not take into account current trends whatsoeva...And who on earth are these so called investors?

The numbers state that FDI peaked at 21 billion in 2008 Errr we're nearly in 2011 mate. Now compare that with $316 billion USA received in 2008. The point I'm making is when differences in FDI between countries are so huge how does it matter who figures outside the Top 10 list?
And let's face it the word is going through some what of a recession. After Investors are done with the top 10 destinations which include China, Brazil, India, USA, Germany, Australia... what's left for other countries?

It's almost like saying I ran in a race and came 2nd. The catch being there were only two participants.

Now check this out, the article states that FDI in 2009 was 50% lower than in 2008. So USD 21 billion now becomes 11.5 billion. In 2010 the figure was probably another few percent lower. So do you think a couple billion dollars of FDI is worthy mention Dillon?
Now balance that figure with remittances leaving UAE.

Significantly though Dubai ranks higher than Japan and Hong Kong..wow isn't Japan in a pickle?

Hi MCL, Since you ask? No I don’t think the it even resembles ‘a well conceived intelligent bit of unbiased journalism’ What it is, is a factual report on the results of a survey, commissioned by the Foreign Investment Office of the DED and provided by AT Kearney, Global Management Consultants.

(As I’m sure you’re more than aware, the Emiratisation programme in the UAE has gathered momentum since the Financial crisis, it would appear that, in my considered opinion, the current trend of policies within public sector companies, is to employ the services of the relative industries reputed consultants to do the work traditionally executed by an Ex-Pat workforce, hence the report by ATK)

AT Kearney, are leading Global Management Consultants and in my opinion have a lot more to lose in credibility and reputation within their industry by publishing flawed and misleading information rather than information based on fact, notwithstanding my earlier comment of;
‘Yes, statistics can be manipulated, and I’m not suggesting by my post that the report is as positive as the presented statistics claim, I am a realist, but the overall essence of the report is positive and good for Dubai in particular, and the wider MENA region.’

You Say ‘the argument put forth is probably the very same fundamentals one has always associated with Dubai. If one turned back the dates and instead of 2010 put 2000, the arguments would be the very same.’ OK then look at the Growth since 2000!

You say ‘The article does not take into account current trends whatsoeva...And who on earth are these so called investors?'

The report was compiled from statistics gathered from October to December 2009 so at that time, would take into account current trends and the respondents were 3rd level executives of the largest Fortune 1000 Companies with businesses in emerging markets and regional & business heads, 3rd level Executives are targeted, as board recommendations are their responsibility.

Now all of the above is listed in the report, had you read and understood it, there would have been no need to ask the questions? I don’t take kindly to being treated as a research assistant

The rest of your post is semantics and statistics, you can’t compare, like for like between one economy which is over 50 times the size in GDP than another.

The report is simply an indicator of the confidence level of targeted potential investors, existing and new, in Dubai and the wider MENA region, nothing more, nothing less, no-one is claiming it is going to be Dubai’s saviour, or an answer to Dubai’s National Debt, it’s clearly not! I think people should take these reports at face value, it’s an indicator, a positive one, and just because there’s so much negative spin about Dubai out there, doesn’t necessarily mean that any positive spin articles are false!

Regards

Dillon wrote:You Say [i]‘the argument put forth is probably the very same fundamentals one has always associated with Dubai. If one turned back the dates and instead of 2010 put 2000, the arguments would be the very same.’ OK then look at the Growth since 2000![/i]

Agreed, but I believe in saturation point too. One can't keep spending on and on and on. After a point the dynamics change and a new game plan is the order of the day.
Your argument sounds sometin like this, if they built two man made islands then, then they should build two more now. If it was good then it must be good now!!!

Dillon wrote:The report was compiled from statistics gathered from October to December 2009 so at that time, would take into account current trends and the respondents were 3rd level executives of the largest Fortune 1000 Companies with businesses in emerging markets and regional & business heads, 3rd level Executives are targeted, as board recommendations are their responsibility.

Now all of the above is listed in the report, had you read and understood it, there would have been no need to ask the questions? I don’t take kindly to being treated as a research assistant

No I disagree! The respondents were selected from the largest corporations in emerging countries. No-where is it mentioned as to weather these corporations are private of state funded. So for all you know they could've surveyed execs from Sovereign funds, and other major cos like Etisalat maybe?
The reason for my inference is that if you've read the report you might have noticed that on Pg 7 it's noted that Telecom is a major investment avenue for investors. Errr? I dnt see any private players participating in that sector? Do you?

So would you appreciate then such a survey to be valid ?

Out with it Dillon, Fortune 500 or Fortune 1000 is a figment of ur imagination. No where is it implicitly stated that respondents were from those companies.

Dillon wrote:[i]‘Yes, statistics can be manipulated, and I’m not suggesting by my post that the report is as positive as the presented statistics claim, I am a realist, but the overall essence of the report is positive and good for Dubai in particular, and the wider MENA region.’[/i]

Dude I appreciate the attempt at realism. But ultimately what validity does an FDI confidence index have if it fails to bring in FDI?
It almost like how the Brits seem to think they have the best football team in the world, but without any silverware to show for it..the inference is void!!!

My bone with it is that the report is highly inaccurate in more ways than one,
For instance the report forecasts Middle East GDP 2010 to be 5.5%, the IMF forecast put's 3%...which is far less than inflation. So what then is the real GDP?
This is just one inaccuracy, there are numerous others, like when the report states that offshore banking in Switzerland , Singapore and Bahrain is now trailing DIFC !! (really?)

At the end of the day as a realist I can stomach a few flaws here and there, but when it get's one to many I'm afraid the report is best chucked out.

So much for AT Kearns and they're reputation eh?

Just to finish I agree with certain aspects of the FDI index. That the Middle East as a whole definitely beats more established centers like Japan, Russia etc. But the reasoning is entirely ridiculous.

You said ‘Your argument sounds sometin like this, if they built two man made islands then, then they should build two more now. If it was good then it must be good now!!!

I disagree, going back in time was your analogy, not mine.

You said ‘The respondents were selected from the largest corporations in emerging countries. No-where is it mentioned as to weather these corporations are private of state funded. So for all you know they could've surveyed execs from Sovereign funds, and other major cos like Etisalat maybe?

Maybe, maybe not, your argument is hypothetical, you need to keep your arguments in the real world.

You say ‘The reason for my inference is that if you've read the report you might have noticed that on Pg 7 it's noted that Telecom is a major investment avenue for investors. Errr? I dnt see any private players participating in that sector? Do you? So would you appreciate then such a survey to be valid ?’

Yes and again Yes, although telecommunications aren’t my line of business and the list herewith is by no means exhaustive, Ericsson, Cisco, Linksys, Avaya, Motorola, AMD and Brand Rex come to mind, all of which have a presence at varying levels in Dubai and the wider UAE.

You say ‘Out with it Dillon, Fortune 500 or Fortune 1000 is a figment of ur imagination. No where is it implicitly stated that respondents were from those companies.’

It is implicitly stated on the opening DED web page in the link from my OP and again within the opening statement on Page 1 (Blue Text) of the PDF Report!

You say ‘Dude I appreciate the attempt at realism. But ultimately what validity does an FDI confidence index have if it fails to bring in FDI?
It almost like how the Brits seem to think they have the best football team in the world, but without any silverware to show for it..the inference is void!!!'

I agree, the report is a forecast, a part of Due Diligence by the Foreign Investment Office in their assessment of Dubai’s current and future competitiveness and lets face it, EVERYBODY thinks they have the best football team in the world

You say, ‘My bone with it is that the report is highly inaccurate in more ways than one,
For instance the report forecasts Middle East GDP 2010 to be 5.5%, the IMF forecast put's 3%...which is far less than inflation. So what then is the real GDP?
This is just one inaccuracy, there are numerous others, like when the report states that offshore banking in Switzerland , Singapore and Bahrain is now trailing DIFC !! (really?)’

Semantics again MCL, as at Dec 2009 the report quotes the IMF figure at 5.5%, I don’t know from where you got your figure of 3%? The World Bank says something completely different, take your pick, it’s a forecast!

And I can not find any reference to Offshore banking in the report, neither can I find any reference to DIFC, I’ll stand corrected if you could point them out to me.

You say ‘At the end of the day as a realist I can stomach a few flaws here and there, but when it get's one to many I'm afraid the report is best chucked out.

So much for AT Kearns and they're reputation eh?

Just to finish I agree with certain aspects of the FDI index. That the Middle East as a whole definitely beats more established centers like Japan, Russia etc. But the reasoning is entirely ridiculous.

Well again, I think I’ve addressed the flaws you talk of and I only read the report the same as you, I didn’t compile it. it’s AT Kearney not Kearns as you keep quoting, and in my opinion, their reputation still remains intact.

Whether you choose to “Chuck out” the report, wrap your Fish and Chips or light your fire in the morning with it, it doesn’t matter, all that really matters is whether the consulted executives put their money where their mouths are and invest further in an existing business or bring new business to Dubai, time alone will tell, no matter what is claimed, understood or interpreted on this forum.

Can we just put this one to bed now, I think people are getting bored with it

yawn

Dillon wrote: lets face it, EVERYBODY thinks they have the best football team in the world

If you say so!!

Dillon wrote:And I can not find any reference to Offshore banking in the report, neither can I find any reference to DIFC, I’ll stand corrected if you could point them out to me.

Pg 7, they did'nt use DIFC. But they did state that the financial services sector is higher ranked than Switzerland and Singapore. Now I haven't seen too much investment banking activity in these parts , so I'd wager that the implication was offshore banking.

Dillon wrote:Whether you choose to “Chuck out” the report, wrap your Fish and Chips or light your fire in the morning with it, it doesn’t matter, all that really matters is whether the consulted executives put their money where their mouths are and invest further in an existing business or bring new business to Dubai, time alone will tell, no matter what is claimed, understood or interpreted on this forum.

Naa I fancy myself a brilliant strategist with an innate ability to spot trends well before they actually occur. If I have to to keep waiting for "time to tell" just like everybody else, how will ever become the millionaire investor I aspire to be ?

Dillon wrote: it’s AT Kearney not Kearns as you keep quoting,

Oy stop being so pedantic. I'm already looking nerdy enough engaging in this debate

Dillon wrote:It is implicitly stated on the opening DED web page in the link from my OP and again within the opening statement on Page 1 (Blue Text) of the PDF Report!

Fine!!! I stand corrected. Stupid of me to have not noticed it eh? Although I do have serious concerns regarding the validity of that statement.
I also stand corrected on another issue, I think the AT Kearns FDI Index report is actually quite sometin. I had incorrectly assumed that the DED had commissioned AT Kearns to come up with something on Dubai. But now I realize that the two reports are definitely not related.
In retrospect it does make sense, cos with the DED report I just couldn't subscribe to their logic.

Dillon wrote:Can we just put this one to bed now, I think people are getting bored with it

You mean the dumbded-down masses on this forum?

But I'm bored too...This is the third time I'm going through it and the charm's just not there anymore.

Yep, Drew was right...Yawn