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Marrying immediate relatives(Sisters, aunts, nieces etc etc) are prohibited and immoral in our societies. Cousins don’t fall into that category, firstly because they are not "Mahram" in religion, so that means people cannot get into very close relationships with them ( religious practice) therefore they are not close as immediate family. I hope you all understand that religion plays a big role in cultures here, and it s a basis for all relationships.

If you don’t feel comfortable about marrying a cousin, you are entitled to your opinion and I dont care about what people in most countries do. It s not mandatory for all countries to have same raditions! Besides definitely I m not defending this practice and as I said it s not that common anymore in Iran. But u people as total strangers to the cultural practices, cannot just come out with arrogant comments like " It is immoral".



PS. Hey TJ, thanks for greetings, I was around , just didnt feel like posting!

Hey Hon. Missed you. Hope all is well.

Bora Bora wrote:Hey Hon. Missed you. Hope all is well.

Heyyyyy , everything is good, thanks

melika969 wrote:But u people as total strangers to the cultural practices, cannot just come out with arrogant comments like " It is immoral".

As in many instances the use of certains words are misinterpreted, or misused. It's not a question of being immoral, but more to what other cultures see as "just not right", as Middle Eastern countries see "cultural practices" in western countries as "just not right" - aren't westerners considered by Middle East countries as being "immoral" because of our freedoms??

It is what is instilled in us by our own cultures. Obviously you found it offensive when you say it's arrogant, it's not arrogance Mel, its an opinion. There are many things in western culture that were perceived as "immoral" years ago, but are a given now and we don't even blink an eye at, which came about through change of thinking. In fact, marrying cousins in the US was "acceptable" up until the 19th century. It was through research studies that showed the offspring of such marriages produced different medical problems in the children, which caused the decline and prohibition of such marriages. As Middle Eastern countries are advancing they are also learning the risks that come with such marriages.

Bora Bora wrote:

melika969 wrote:But u people as total strangers to the cultural practices, cannot just come out with arrogant comments like " It is immoral".

As in many instances the use of certains words are misinterpreted, or misused. It's not a question of being immoral, but more to what other cultures see as "just not right", as Middle Eastern countries see "cultural practices" in western countries as "just not right" - aren't westerners considered by Middle East countries as being "immoral" because of our freedoms??

It is what is instilled in us by our own cultures. Obviously you found it offensive when you say it's arrogant, it's not arrogance Mel, its an opinion. There are many things in western culture that were perceived as "immoral" years ago, but are a given now and we don't even blink an eye at, which came about through change of thinking. In fact, marrying cousins in the US was "acceptable" up until the 19th century. It was through research studies that showed the offspring of such marriages produced different medical problems in the children, which caused the decline and prohibition of such marriages. As Middle Eastern countries are advancing they are also learning the risks that come with such marriages.

Well as I said I dont defend this tradition.

My whole point was toward the attitude. calling something "immoral" which is actullay considered valuable in some countries is arrogance to me. Especially for people who live in those countries as expats and should be familiar with traditions. But apprently they dont even know what is the long distance between cousins comparing to immediate family (like sisters ...) in ME.

I m not debating on this on scinetific side, as I totally agree with you on that.

Bora Bora wrote:

melika969 wrote:But u people as total strangers to the cultural practices, cannot just come out with arrogant comments like " It is immoral".

As in many instances the use of certains words are misinterpreted, or misused. It's not a question of being immoral, but more to what other cultures see as "just not right", as Middle Eastern countries see "cultural practices" in western countries as "just not right" - aren't westerners considered by Middle East countries as being "immoral" because of our freedoms??

It is what is instilled in us by our own cultures. Obviously you found it offensive when you say it's arrogant, it's not arrogance Mel, its an opinion. There are many things in western culture that were perceived as "immoral" years ago, but are a given now and we don't even blink an eye at, which came about through change of thinking. In fact, marrying cousins in the US was "acceptable" up until the 19th century. It was through research studies that showed the offspring of such marriages produced different medical problems in the children, which caused the decline and prohibition of such marriages. As Middle Eastern countries are advancing they are also learning the risks that come with such marriages.

Bora, what a very well written post.

Bravo.

Drew, I'm going to take that as a sincere compliment coming from you.

Clearly you underestimated by abilities.

It would be nice if we can get things to turn around on DF where we can show a more intelligent exchange, but I'm getting discouraged. I know it it can happen but more than likely it won't.

Bora Bora wrote:Drew, I'm going to take that as a sincere compliment coming from you.

Clearly you underestimated by abilities.

It would be nice if we can get things to turn around on DF where we can show a more intelligent exchange, but I'm getting discouraged. I know it it can happen but more than likely it won't.

No need to be so self deprecating Bora! Keep taking the pills and I’m sure things will get better here for you on DF in the fullness of time.

Dillon wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:Drew, I'm going to take that as a sincere compliment coming from you.

Clearly you underestimated by abilities.

It would be nice if we can get things to turn around on DF where we can show a more intelligent exchange, but I'm getting discouraged. I know it it can happen but more than likely it won't.

No need to be so self deprecating Bora! Keep taking the pills and I’m sure things will get better here for you on DF in the fullness of time.

Are you a product of first cousins marrying??? Is that the reason you are so special??? It seems you want some restrictions/rules put on mods so that you can have a free hand at what you want to say. Well, it ain't going to happy funny bunny. As long as you chose to show your character, we shall show ours and reserve intelligent conversation for those who can hold one. Don't feel left out, you aren't alone.

Bora Bora wrote:

Dillon wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:Drew, I'm going to take that as a sincere compliment coming from you.

Clearly you underestimated by abilities.

It would be nice if we can get things to turn around on DF where we can show a more intelligent exchange, but I'm getting discouraged. I know it it can happen but more than likely it won't.

No need to be so self deprecating Bora! Keep taking the pills and I’m sure things will get better here for you on DF in the fullness of time.

Are you a product of first cousins marrying??? Is that the reason you are so special??? It seems you want some restrictions/rules put on mods so that you can have a free hand at what you want to say. Well, it ain't going to happy funny bunny. As long as you chose to show your character, we shall show ours and reserve intelligent conversation for those who can hold one. Don't feel left out, you aren't alone.

You’re incapable of holding an intelligent conversation Bora, you’re exactly like DDS in the manner you default to personal insults when someone presents a difference in opinion to the one you hold, or more often than not when your sense of humour takes another holiday, that’s why you’re in constant conflict with him and so many others here on the forum.

Anyway enough of that, back on topic, ‘East is East’ is a film that has reached Iconic status in the UK from 1971, A Manchester fish & chip shop owner George Khan played by Om Puri expects his family to follow his strict Pakistani Muslim ways. But his children, with an English mother and having been born and brought up in Britain, increasingly see themselves as British and start to reject their father's rules on marriage dress, food, religion, and living in general. Om Puri and Archie Panjabi are well worth a watch and there are a couple of storylines within the film that address the issue of arranged marriage, I recently read of the sequel to the Film ‘West is West’ I haven’t seen it yet but if the first is anything to go by it should be worth watching.

No not enough of that. Telling me that I am self deprecating and to take a pill is your idea of intelligent???? When you provide an intelligent opinion, I will respond accordingly. BM seems to think you are quite the intelligent chap, why don't you prove her right because I have yet to see it.

Oh, and you get along sooooooooooooooo well with people.

I'm starting to think that Dillon and DDS are one in the same.

Intelligent? no I never claimed that, but you have to admit it WAS funny

And the rest? well I rest my case

Can you bring your humor up a few levels so that other people can see/get it, not just you.

You can't educate pork

Dillon wrote:You can't educate pork

Now that was funny.

Dillon wrote:You can't educate pork

Guess that explains why no one can get through to you. Didn't realize you were such a pig.

You mean YOU can’t get through to me and as predicted and expected you’ve resorted to unnecessary personal insults again true to form.

Oink Oink.

Dillon wrote:You mean YOU can’t get through to me and as predicted and expected you’ve resorted to unnecessary personal insults again true to form.

Oink Oink.

Oh, Dillon, your are another hopeless case. You can't see what you deliver, only what you receive.

I gave your earlier comment to me about DDS, and others, more thought. May I remind you that there is someone else, near and dear to you, that the same could be said for? BM has had a go with just about everyone on DF - including people I get along with. YOU have a go with most of the DF members as well. It can't be either/or Dillon. So open your little peepers and see the whole picture!!!

Personal insults. Yeah, right. So I guess the battle continues based on your imaginary you-insulted-me-first mentality. Man up and be that little soldier that mommy always told you you were. It seems to me that you are are your happiest when you can act like a child and throw your toys out of the pram. Oink Oink?? How old are you? Carry on......................

Now Bora, what's all this? I see you have brought me into this so only fair I should have my say. I think you'll find in the past, that I have stated that when I have entered into an altercation with anyone on DF I don't believe I have started it, although I do admit to keeping it going, somewhat. Do you remember when I told a light hearted story about a time in Germany when I came across some Kurdish boys? Well I was bombarded with what I can only describe as hate posts by many (and that includes you, Herve!) Bloody hell I would have got off lighter if I had admitted to rape and murder! If you feel inclinded please point me to a post where I have had a go at someone for no apparant reason, and if I have then I stand corrected as will always admit to my mistakes. And very rarely do i descend into name calling, it isn't my style, even though I have been called precious names here in the past. Don't take things so much to heart, it's only an internet forum and most people here are just here for a few laughs. Why not apreciate that yours and Dillons exchanges are giving people a few laughs. well they are to me and certainly DDS. Carry on your good work Bora, and nurture Dillon, he really is a sweetie (and yes, intelligent too)

If the OP is still relevant (after the past few posts of arguing)...my opinion is that it is wrong. Call it Western morals/values, whatever. I think marriage on this level is way more of a moral and scientific consequence than drinking booze, smokin' dope or stealing. If I am not mistaken, the whole point of cousin-marriage is to keep the gene pool "clean"? Well, clean it is, as every defective/recessive gene seems to come to the surface.

My ex LL was from a large local family. He kept one of his wives in the mansion in the compound....and to see those kids was just heart breaking. The eldest was about 12 and morbidly obese to the point he could not tie his own shoes, the middle one (I'd say about had some sort of hip/joint issue and could not speak, and the youngest (about 5-6 years old) was by far the sweetest, knew how to speak English, but had a problem with his eyes where one was looking at you and the other looking for you, they also protruded from his head. He also looked to weigh about 40 pounds and was thin as a rail. These are all brothers (same mum and dad). No wonder we only saw them twice in five years. The wife was never seen either...only servants.

Which begs the question...how many of these cases are actually documented and reported? Who knows what else my LL is hiding in there? We all know you never see disabled kids and youth here, never mind those in wheel chairs!

Bora Bora wrote:

Dillon wrote:You mean YOU can’t get through to me and as predicted and expected you’ve resorted to unnecessary personal insults again true to form.

Oink Oink.

Oh, Dillon, your are another hopeless case. You can't see what you deliver, only what you receive.

I gave your earlier comment to me about DDS, and others, more thought. May I remind you that there is someone else, near and dear to you, that the same could be said for? BM has had a go with just about everyone on DF - including people I get along with. YOU have a go with most of the DF members as well. It can't be either/or Dillon. So open your little peepers and see the whole picture!!!

Personal insults. Yeah, right. So I guess the battle continues based on your imaginary you-insulted-me-first mentality. Man up and be that little soldier that mommy always told you you were. It seems to me that you are are your happiest when you can act like a child and throw your toys out of the pram. Oink Oink?? How old are you? Carry on......................

Tell me, what’s it like living in your little parallel dream world where you meet all our alter ego’s? can you design Everybody’s characters to your own personal specifications? because the person you’re describing doesn’t bear any resemblance to me!

Personal insults? Show me on this thread where I’ve personally insulted you?

Dudes, we actually have a decent dialog going on a decent subject. Can we leave the pettiness on the pettiness thread?

dubaidog wrote:Dudes, we actually have a decent dialog going on a decent subject. Can we leave the pettiness on the pettiness thread?

Thank you!!! This is what I was talking about in the Moderation thread I started. How a good thread gets derailed by someone who has to take it south.

Back on topic........................

-- Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:23 pm --

Bethsmum wrote:Now Bora, what's all this? I see you have brought me into this so only fair I should have my say. I think you'll find in the past, that I have stated that when I have entered into an altercation with anyone on DF I don't believe I have started it, although I do admit to keeping it going, somewhat. Do you remember when I told a light hearted story about a time in Germany when I came across some Kurdish boys? Well I was bombarded with what I can only describe as hate posts by many (and that includes you, Herve!) Bloody hell I would have got off lighter if I had admitted to rape and murder! If you feel inclinded please point me to a post where I have had a go at someone for no apparant reason, and if I have then I stand corrected as will always admit to my mistakes. And very rarely do i descend into name calling, it isn't my style, even though I have been called precious names here in the past. Don't take things so much to heart, it's only an internet forum and most people here are just here for a few laughs. Why not apreciate that yours and Dillons exchanges are giving people a few laughs. well they are to me and certainly DDS. Carry on your good work Bora, and nurture Dillon, he really is a sweetie (and yes, intelligent too)

Hate to interrupt this thread again!!! When I say having a go - I mean two people going at it. It's not about who starts it. But if you are going to go there, there was a constant barge at Mel by you, Dillon and at times Drew. Dillon is constantly crying about being the victim. It is really boring when it is clear he is an antagonist.

This is where the thread went south:

Quote from Dillon's post:

No need to be so self deprecating Bora! Keep taking the pills and I’m sure things will get better here for you on DF in the fullness of time.



But note that there was no personal insult towards me, according to him. I can use the argument "he/she started it", as Dillon does, but it isn't going to get anywhere is it? Because someone "starts" something doesn't mean that one has to highjack a thread to return an insult. Get over it and move on, but he's still chewing on the same bone since day one.

Aah silly me, and there's me thinking that you had just grown up and started acting like an adult again!



Where's Katy with her advice when you need her?

Dillon wrote:Aah silly me, and there's me thinking that you had just grown up and started acting like an adult again!



Where's Katy with her advice when you need her?

You may be happy, or not, to learn that DDS has agreed to better moderation. So, enjoy yourself for the time being, because hopefully we will have more mods in General for closer moderation, and this kind of post will no longer have a life. The mods, hopefully, will practice what they preach!!!

Bub Bye.

Truth hurts Eeh Bora?

Katy?

On a previous occasion when Bora spat her dummy out, one of many I know someone called Katy (I think it was Katy) came online and suggested thet Bora needed either a Kick or a good shag

dubaidog wrote:If the OP is still relevant (after the past few posts of arguing)...my opinion is that it is wrong. Call it Western morals/values, whatever. I think marriage on this level is way more of a moral and scientific consequence than drinking booze, smokin' dope or stealing. If I am not mistaken, the whole point of cousin-marriage is to keep the gene pool "clean"? Well, clean it is, as every defective/recessive gene seems to come to the surface.

My ex LL was from a large local family. He kept one of his wives in the mansion in the compound....and to see those kids was just heart breaking. The eldest was about 12 and morbidly obese to the point he could not tie his own shoes, the middle one (I'd say about had some sort of hip/joint issue and could not speak, and the youngest (about 5-6 years old) was by far the sweetest, knew how to speak English, but had a problem with his eyes where one was looking at you and the other looking for you, they also protruded from his head. He also looked to weigh about 40 pounds and was thin as a rail. These are all brothers (same mum and dad). No wonder we only saw them twice in five years. The wife was never seen either...only servants.

Which begs the question...how many of these cases are actually documented and reported? Who knows what else my LL is hiding in there? We all know you never see disabled kids and youth here, never mind those in wheel chairs!

True indeed and truly is a cultral thing and things get exacerbated when the gene pool is really so small like just around a million Emaratis ( could be wrong in the size ) I've seen similar things in Pakistan. In the Bhora community where outside marriage is strictly frowned upon and the amount of deaf children was frightning and this is what I only saw from the outside, god knows what else was going on inside.

But its mostly a cultral thing, as people like to keep their blood lines pure. European royalty is mostly inter family marriages and it is legal in juadism as well as many US states and many other countries of th eworld allow it, although Islam does not forbid it and but gives a general guideline as who you can and cannot marry, but doesn't say one must marry within only these. Infact it encourages people to marry outside the family as a hadith says if you keep marrying with in your family your blood will keep getting thinner and thinner.

Also its is becomming common practise for people to have medcial checks done to see of any genetic disorders and I'm not talking Emaratis here. Just because your not related does not mean either one or both are not carrying anything in their DNA.

I see no harm with marrying cousins but not when thats the only option allowed in your culture and family and has been going on for generations, then your almost certainly asking for trouble. And as far as morality of the issue goes that has already been discussed so I wont touch upon that.

The reasons why marriages between 1 st cousins were accepted in Europe or the US were not cultural or religious, rather opportunities or convenience, and never socially encouraged. After it was proven that it carries the risk of degenerecence it became rejected, most countries did not have to make it illegal because people understood it was immoral, ing and against nature, and because it kills as a species.
In the Middle East, as Tom pointed it out, it is to maintian the cash flow and titles in the family and it is socially encouraged. So Emiratis have a tough call here, either change their society or become extinct in the long run.
Because with 1 marriage out of 2 with similar pool of genes it is inevitable. Already the UAE has abnormal high rates of deseases amoung the (young) population. Heart failures, diabetes, cancers, plus what is not reported and hidden behind the family walls.