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It is heartening how ordinary Muslims have been lining up to condemn people like Hamza who called for people to kill, poison and inflict pain in the name of God. Thankfully the overwhelming majority just want to lead normal, peaceful lives and reject the lunatics who preach hatred and revenge. Those non-extremist Muslims who came into contact with Hamza are appalled by what he preached and have publicly said so. This is what will win through in the end. Those fantasy world, apocalyptic soap-box crazies with their fire and brimstone and death and destruction (and yes there is at least one on here) are just a tiny minority and seem to revel in stirring the pot but most thankfully want no part of it. I have faith in normal, decent people, both Muslim and non-Muslim, and they are the ones who will triumph in the end NOT the voices of hatred.

In the case of the cartoons I am astonished that some on here have said that burning down buildings and issuing threats is a reasonable response. Yes, these cartoons have caused offence to people whose religion governs major parts of their lives but the way to respond is to comdemn it, call for a retraction, seek the sacking of those who may have made a mistake in publishing and generally point out - in a reasonable and responsible way. - that is has genuinely caused offence. But to perpetrate violence and call for violence is way out of proportion despite the offence caused. And it's just paranoia to see this as part of some kind of global bid to destroy Islam.

Perhaps some people know about the Life Of Brian film about the life of Christ by the Monty Python team many moons ago? Well, it caused deep offence to some Christians with its hilarious satire on religion and the story of Jesus. But I don't think people called for John Cleese and Co to be slain in the name of Christ and film studios to be razed to the ground. I believe they made their protests known, got their point across in a proper way and then got on with their lives.....

PERHAPS IT'S TIME TO DO THE SAME.

I can remember people out the cinema's with placards etc asking people not to go in. They were very peaceful and dignified, and the same happened when the "Exorcist" was released.

This subject is now in overkill mode.

People seem to have dug opinion "trenches" and locked themselves in them. Those who keep saying they don't understand Muslim anger by now perplexes many Muslims.

Thread locked.

The thread is open.

hahahahhaa it's one of those rare lovely moments to see Liban pissed!

Rare?

kanelli wrote:Rare?

Yep rare - so pissed that he will swallow basket full of red chillis and wet hsi pants (loose motion).

kanelli wrote:Rare?

Very well done Andy......

gudbai,,,, when you compare those film which is unsulting for christians with the carrecatures ,, you are just mixing the cards ,,, films about the christ are being made in christian countries , and its own majority ppl are christians , so if they choose to insult their own religion ,, then its up to them ,,, but to start aiming other religions , it is just not the same .

ok i agree that teh response shouldnt have been through violance ,, but our protest is not only about showing that we dont agree ,, its about that it hurts Muslims and something should have been done about it . still i dont say that violance is the key ,,, but also ,, its not our aim just to show our protest .



and by the way,, guys , although i dont agree with the way that Liban post his comments here ( i mean the agressive way he uses ) ,,, i dont see any problem with his comment here now

This subject is now in overkill mode.

People seem to have dug opinion "trenches" and locked themselves in them. Those who keep saying they don't understand Muslim anger by now perplexes many Muslims.

Thread locked.

,, i mean his comment that you started a big thing about ,,, he is saying his own opinion ( speaking about freedom of speech ! ) and there is a point of view in what he said ,, ppl are still talking about the violance that happened ( despite all the violance from other regims ) just to distract the attention from the main subject which is the insult that has been brought on the Prophet pbuh .

so ,, hounestly i will tell my opinion here ,,, guys ,, do you enjoy the way that Liban starts being aggressive with you ? why do you need to comment on his comment in this way ??? dont you see that you are not being responssible for making him start something here now ? i mean i you dont like his way in posting , then you shouldnt urge him to do that . i dont mean that you should be affraid of him or whatever ,, but guys you made thread to speak about him . why do you need to start with him here now again ???? guys ,, being fair , really i wasnt commenting on what you have been posting about him coz simply he gave you a chance to show your side of aggression also , but now i can see another thing ,, that you are seeking for this kind environment here in the forum.

god bless .[/quote]

Castellano, Liban closed a thread because he didn't like the poster and the contents. That is abuse of moderating powers.

What you fail to note is that someone posted a thread also about the Danish cartoons on the same day and after Goodbai's thread - yet Liban was online and contributing to threads - and he did not close it. Why? Because he wasn't biased against the content or the poster, like he was in Goodbai's case.

Liban's comments and actions on this forum get the responses they deserve.

K

please do not be racist or troll threads

I'd like to address Liban's comments actually. I can understand the anger of Muslim people, just not its manifestation in actions like burning property, threatening to kill people, and actually killing people. It is only the radicals who are like this, of course, not the average moderate Muslims. I'm sure that they too don't understand violent words and violent actions of the extremists. Liban likes to speak for all Muslim people, when he really shouldn't - especially when his views are leaning towards or firmly in the radical side.

arniegang wrote:K

please do not be racist or troll threads

Castenello, I don't think it's mixing cards at all. It doesn't matter who does what to intentionally or not make insulting material. Goodbai's example of Monty Python is spot on, in fact should it not be found more offensive in the fact that it was made by people who may or may not be Christian in Christian countries making fun of it? The film was banned across the globe, up until 1999 it was still banned in some cities in the UK!

But now people just take it as it was meant to be taken as a piece of slap-stick comedy and it's one of the highest grossing films ever constantly winning awards and accolades. It's tongue in cheek and that's how it was meant to be seen.

What you're basically saying is that if a muslim in a muslim country drew a caricature of the Prophet than that would be OK? Plus you keep neglecting the fact that the Imams who took the drawings to the Middle East, many of which weren't even printed, are accountable for much of the outcry. Had they not thrust it under the nose of people you wouldn't even know about it.

Chocoholic wrote:What you're basically saying is that if a muslim in a muslim country drew a caricature of the Prophet than that would be OK? Plus you keep neglecting the fact that the Imams who took the drawings to the Middle East, many of which weren't even printed, are accountable for much of the outcry. Had they not thrust it under the nose of people you wouldn't even know about it.

Ah that shows u didnt do ur homework. I strongly disagree to ur last statement it happened in Sep 2005 and they tried their level best to meet with journalist and minister but they totally refused to meet with em. What was their next step? protest and spread the protest which was their right cos they had the right to protest. This was the reason why it took so long to materialize.

Take it this way- if somebody insults ur mom , u warn em and try to solve the issue by talk but it the person closes ears and refuses to obey what do u do? Sit there like a fool and bear the insult or call backup?

I was posing a question to Castenallo, not you Sniper. And that's not what I read anyway.

The cartoons were publish well before Sept 2005. Either way many of the ones the Imams had in their possession still weren't the ones printed, but much worse - so they're still responsible in part for inflaming things.

Chocoholic wrote:I was posing a question to Castenallo, not you Sniper. And that's not what I read anyway.

The cartoons were publish well before Sept 2005. Either way many of the ones the Imams had in their possession still weren't the ones printed, but much worse - so they're still responsible in part for inflaming things.

Ah no wonder u get ur info by reading tabloids ......radadada

It's been published in all the press. You just don't read at all.

Hi all,

I have been quite distressed by the response of the Muslims around the world. Good friends of mine who I have discussed this with feel that the publishing of these cartoons are especially offensive in light of recent events in the EU where people were punished for denying the holocaust.

Publishing cartoons may have offended the Muslim world, but what a missed opportunity to respond in a mature and diplomatic manner! Burning flags and embassies, making death threats, and random violence- elements of the Islamic community seem to be working overtime to give the whole religion a bad name.

I think one of the key reasons is that Muslims are not able to separate religion from state, even in their minds. This is why no one in the Muslim world understands that the Danish PM cannot apologise for the actions of one newspaper. Separation of religion and state is something that most countries have even fought hard to attain, and this should be even more popular in this part of the world. Simply put, caricaturing a religious figure is not really insulting the sentiments of a large number of nations!

Something else I feel is, what makes Muslims think that their feelings especially looked after? If my God, His teachings, and representatives can be made fun of, why not yours?

Coming to boycotting all the nations that have caricatured the Prophet (PBUH) and the allegation that the Imperial West and Zionist lobbies are working overtime to find ways to demean Islam, lets start with boycotting Egypt & Jordan, where papers have also published the cartoons.

Here's to peace..

avkurian wrote:Hi all,

I have been quite distressed by the response of the Muslims around the world. Good friends of mine who I have discussed this with feel that the publishing of these cartoons are especially offensive in light of recent events in the EU where people were punished for denying the holocaust.

Publishing cartoons may have offended the Muslim world, but what a missed opportunity to respond in a mature and diplomatic manner! Burning flags and embassies, making death threats, and random violence- elements of the Islamic community seem to be working overtime to give the whole religion a bad name.

I think one of the key reasons is that Muslims are not able to separate religion from state, even in their minds. This is why no one in the Muslim world understands that the Danish PM cannot apologise for the actions of one newspaper. Separation of religion and state is something that most countries have even fought hard to attain, and this should be even more popular in this part of the world. Simply put, caricaturing a religious figure is not really insulting the sentiments of a large number of nations!

Something else I feel is, what makes Muslims think that their feelings especially looked after? If my God, His teachings, and representatives can be made fun of, why not yours?

Coming to boycotting all the nations that have caricatured the Prophet (PBUH) and the allegation that the Imperial West and Zionist lobbies are working overtime to find ways to demean Islam, lets start with boycotting Egypt & Jordan, where papers have also published the cartoons.

Here's to peace..

1-hi there , can you explain what you exactly mean by this : Something else I feel is, what makes Muslims think that their feelings especially looked after? If my God, His teachings, and representatives can be made fun of, why not yours?



2- Coming to boycotting all the nations that have caricatured the Prophet (PBUH) and the allegation that the Imperial West and Zionist lobbies are working overtime to find ways to demean Islam, lets start with boycotting Egypt & Jordan, where papers have also published the cartoons.

well ,,do you think that those papers are not being punnished for such an act in an islamic country ???? so what do you mean by this again? the people of those countries which you are suggesting to boycott are also the people who are protesting against the cartoons !!!!!!!!!!!





3- I think one of the key reasons is that Muslims are not able to separate religion from state, even in their minds

well,,, Muslims are able to accept the idea that the west seperate its religion from its government ,, BUT WHAT DOES THAT HAS TO DO WITH INSULTING OUR RELIGION ???!!!! WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH IT ?????!!!!!! THE SEPERATION IS IN THEIR COUNTRY ,, NOT IN OURS !!! AND BY THOSE CARTOONS THEY DIDNT ONLY INSULT OUR PROPHET PBUH ( WHOM OF CURSE THEY DONT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT ) BUT THEY ARE RUINING THEIR RELATIONSHIPS WITH THOSE ISLAMIC COUNTRIES ( WHICH I AM SURE THEY CARE A LOT OF , AT LEAST ECONOMICALLY !!!!!!!!!)

Castenallo, Please don't put words in my mouth, I never at any point said the cartoons were acceptable - they were not! That's clear. But you took my comment the wrong way, what I meant was many other people do things that upset or offend, but do you see others reacting in such a way? No you don't, that was the point I was making.

You still don't accpet the fact that the Imams took cartoons not printed in the Danish paper! Therefor they deliberately provoked a reaction by showing things that were untrue! This is a terrible thing and they should take responsibility for their actions.

You're too closed minded to look at or accept other peoples view points, many of which are justified, logical and sensical.

So I'll just say this, yes the paper were wrong for publishing the cartoons, but you cannot punish and entire nation for a few peoples mistakes, and the violent reactions are a disgrace, as has been said many muslims missed the chance to deal with it in a proper manner - so you condon the guy in Pakistan putting a bounty on the cartoonists head? Way to go to reinforce bad opinions about muslims and Islam! Plus the boycotts have put the jobs of 1000 Muslims in the region in jepordy, so they're being punished too! Way to go to look after your own!

Plus why should the PM apologise for something he had nothing to do with? Are you going to apologise for all the horrible things insurgents and terrorists have done to others? No, didn't think so.

Chocoholic wrote:Castenallo, Please don't put words in my mouth, I never at any point said the cartoons were acceptable - they were not! That's clear. But you took my comment the wrong way, what I meant was many other people do things that upset or offend, but do you see others reacting in such a way? No you don't, that was the point I was making.

You still don't accpet the fact that the Imams took cartoons not printed in the Danish paper! Therefor they deliberately provoked a reaction by showing things that were untrue! This is a terrible thing and they should take responsibility for their actions.

You're too closed minded to look at or accept other peoples view points, many of which are justified, logical and sensical.

So I'll just say this, yes the paper were wrong for publishing the cartoons, but you cannot punish and entire nation for a few peoples mistakes, and the violent reactions are a disgrace, as has been said many muslims missed the chance to deal with it in a proper manner - so you condon the guy in Pakistan putting a bounty on the cartoonists head? Way to go to reinforce bad opinions about muslims and Islam! Plus the boycotts have put the jobs of 1000 Muslims in the region in jepordy, so they're being punished too! Way to go to look after your own!

Plus why should the PM apologise for something he had nothing to do with? Are you going to apologise for all the horrible things insurgents and terrorists have done to others? No, didn't think so.

Ahh I dont understand if the imams showed the Danish or non- Danish both insulted the Prophet. I dont accept burning of embassies but I dont even accept the fact the Danish minister saying it not my business while some yrs ago apologized for Holocaust denial by some other Dane. Isn't it hypocrisy? I dont accept the fact that whole Denmark suffer the burnt but the leader is a fool and not shrewd they will have to suffer the burnt along with him cos he is their elected leader. If I were the Danish leader I would assess the situation and think whom am I pissing off? Wha will be the consequences? But he was bold and led whole nation to suffer. Now the ppl will think 10 times b4 villifying a religion which they have no business with.

Sniper that means you think the violence is justifiable. Under no circumstances was it warranted and it was only fodder for racists.

Now the ppl will think 10 times b4 villifying a religion which they have no business with.

GAB wrote:Sniper that means you think the violence is justifiable. Under no circumstances was it warranted and it was only fodder for racists.

Now the ppl will think 10 times b4 villifying a religion which they have no business with.

ah this shows u clearly didnt read my post and ur eyes are biased.

No, fact is I did read it but you contradict yourself. On the one hand we concur- burning emabassies is not on, but you end you post with the "they'll think twice" comment. Read what I wrote and proof read your own posts first. Nothing biased-just reading what you typed.

Sniper stop replying to my posts, they're not directed at you. And you just miss the point everytime.

Chocoholic wrote:Sniper stop replying to my posts, they're not directed at you. And you just miss the point everytime.

I wont if u stop pozting here and go to mashup. cos ur points are just beating around the bush

GAB wrote:No, fact is I did read it but you contradict yourself. On the one hand we concur- burning emabassies is not on, but you end you post with the "they'll think twice" comment. Read what I wrote and proof read your own posts first. Nothing biased-just reading what you typed.

well think twice cos there will b repercussions like protest and boycott....not burning embassies.