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I am all for returning back to good, moral values, But do you really have to be a Moslem, to be a good moral person.

Unfortunately many of the Moslems of today cannot be described as moral, decent people. When I was in the Middle East, I have to admit that I had more problems with Moslems than non-Moslems!!! For example, I can tell you that I had more Moslems lie to me than non-Moslems.

But on the other hand, and to be fair, I also got to know a lot of wonderful, decent Moslems. One actually is still a very close, dear friend of nine

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... Islam.html

Interesting article. The journalist was born a Muslim and decided not to follow Islam - so her analysis is quite interesting.

The ladies all are saying that it is not just about dressing modestly that convinced them to change their faith, but all seem to be talking about the spiritual aspects of Islam.

Whilst there are some teenagers that may convert out of a sense of rebellion (just like many girls/young women become vegetarian for a period of their lives) - this article highlights the fact that educated women who are 'deep thinkers' are converting out of an attraction to the teachings of Islam.

According to Kevin Brice from Swansea University, who has specialised in studying white conversion to Islam, these women are part of an intriguing trend.
He explains: ‘They seek spirituality, a higher meaning, and tend to be deep thinkers. The other type of women who turn to Islam are what I call “converts of convenience”. They’ll assume the trappings of the religion to please their Muslim husband and his family, but won’t necessarily attend mosque, pray or fast.’
I spoke to a diverse selection of white Western converts in a bid to re-examine the faith I had rejected.
Women like Kristiane Backer, 43, a London-based former MTV presenter who had led the kind of liberal Western-style life that I yearned for as a teenager, yet who turned her back on it and embraced Islam instead. Her reason? The ‘anything goes’ permissive society that I coveted had proved to be a superficial void.

I saw Lauren Booth on a political programme 'This Week' explaining why she converted - and she was emphasising the moral and spiritual attraction, as well as the aspect of dressing that little bit more modestly than before. She also recounted how a university student in the North of England doing Engineering and top of her class decided to wear the Burqa and found she got more respect from her colleagues and lecturers - she had dressed in tshirts and jeans before, apparently. (Burqa here does not mean the full face veil, just the outer dress and covered hair - face still showing).

I think these women make a refreshing advertisement against some of the misinformation about Islam we read from certain quarters of society.

Cheers,
Shafique

Do women need a religion to tell them to dress modestly if they feel they are judged better in society that way? (If the woman wore a blouse and dress pants should would likely have received more respect than if she wore jeans and a t-shirt. After all, why do men wear business suits?) If one has lead a promiscuous or deviant life, can one not change one's behaviour and make amends to those one has hurt and feel a better person instead of signing up to some kind of religion? I don't think Islam is any more moral than other religions or even atheism. Spiritual? Well, that is a personal matter for everyone.

More well-educated middle to upper class white women are rejecting modern science and medicine in favour of things natural like homeopathy, acupuncture and other forms of alternative medicine. This group has higher levels of vaccine rejectionism too. And the majority of homebirthers in the Western world also fit in that category.

So perhaps one could conclude in general that well-educated middle to upper class white women are searching for many types of meaning in their lives...

kanelli wrote:So perhaps one could conclude in general that well-educated middle to upper class white women are searching for many types of meaning in their lives...

True, people in general have a very hard time accepting that after death there is just a big nothing and all is quite meaningless (except of course the legacy you leave behind, and thats where people should focus on).

people who convert to islam do a better job being muslims compared to most who are born as muslims thats why "Unfortunately many of the Moslems of today cannot be described as moral, decent people".

WHereas these converts will know exactly what islam is all about because they would have sat down read the quran and understood what the quran tells you..

And there are some in the muslim world, who have names such as Ahmed, Mohammed and they will have white gfs, go clubbing, drink etc and end up in a mosque on friday! is that really a muslim??

This is what one "MUSLIM" said in the comments section of dailymail " I think I was very fortunate to br brought up in a non religious muslim household, and my parents never barred me from watching anything on tv, socialise,listen to any music, partying, drinking (but getting caught, but good times) and girlfriends. Being a muslim, doesnt mean dressing up traditionally, eat halal, live halal and praying five times a day. All that matters is if your a good, decent person".

Reading this makes you realise that this guy is not really a muslim. muslim is someone who actually prays to god. this guy doesnt.

whats the different between ahmed and david when ahmed doesnt pray to god?? The only difference between ahmed and david is that ahmed will have a muslim name but he will probably do the same things what david does like clubbing, drinking, gfs etc.

Whats wrong with white girlfriends?

Flying Dutchman wrote:Whats wrong with white girlfriends?

dont think islam allows a person to have a girlfriend at all let alone a white one

rudeboy wrote:dont think islam allows a person to have a girlfriend at all

I thought courtship with a mahram is encouraged in Islam.

rudeboy wrote:let alone a white one

Interesting again. Have you seen the title of this thread?

kanelli wrote:So perhaps one could conclude in general that well-educated middle to upper class white women are searching for many types of meaning in their lives...

Can we also conclude that they are single well-educated middle to upper class white women?, which would explain why they are searching for something.

?

Well, the media often states that Islam is the fastest growing religion due to conversions (haven't seen the definitive proof myself) - so perhaps educated British women aren't abnormally representative of the converts to Islam in the UK?

It may be just a natural journalistic piece in reaction to Lauren Booth converting.

That said, The Times ran a piece earlier this year about British lady converts - and focussed on the educated, university graduates:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 135026.ece

(It also estimated the number of converts in the UK at 50,000)


But, applying Ocram's razor, isn't the reason they are all converting simply an attraction to the teachings of Islam? (Duh?)

Cheers,
Shafique

kanelli wrote:Do women need a religion to tell them to dress modestly if they feel they are judged better in society that way? (If the woman wore a blouse and dress pants should would likely have received more respect than if she wore jeans and a t-shirt. After all, why do men wear business suits?) If one has lead a promiscuous or deviant life, can one not change one's behaviour and make amends to those one has hurt and feel a better person instead of signing up to some kind of religion? I don't think Islam is any more moral than other religions or even atheism. Spiritual? Well, that is a personal matter for everyone.

More well-educated middle to upper class white women are rejecting modern science and medicine in favour of things natural like homeopathy, acupuncture and other forms of alternative medicine. This group has higher levels of vaccine rejectionism too. And the majority of homebirthers in the Western world also fit in that category.

So perhaps one could conclude in general that well-educated middle to upper class white women are searching for many types of meaning in their lives...

The simple concept of gratefulness is so missing in today's world. Be grateful for what you have and appreciate it. That will negate any feeling of confusion one may have. I dnt understand why western societies like to complicate things so much.

Personally, I'm far more attracted to Buddhism compared to Islam, Christianity or Judaism.

I've got to say, Buddhism does get a much better press - and the Dalai Llama and other Buddhists are great ambassadors.

The Tibetan cause does attract a lot of supporters.

But sometimes I wonder whether the bad press (and efforts of Islamophobes) to present Islam in a bad light are contributing factors to the increasing number of conversions. I mean for people who are interested in spirituality and value truth over spin, will naturally be curious to investigate which of the two views of Islam is correct (Muslim view vs Islamophobic view). I wonder how many of these conversions started with these types of investigations?

My belief is that all organised religions were originally from God and have a kernel of truth that is the same across all religions. All faiths have 'reformers' who try to get back to this kernel (including Islam). Thus anyone studying any faith would be attracted to the kernel and will benefit from following these aspects - a pious Jew, Christian, Hindu, Zoroastrian, Taoist or Muslim (etc) would pretty much be a great neighbour and citizen - they'd all be peaceful, tolerant and law-abiding - and would mediate/pray and generally be a good egg, as they say.

Of course, it is also valid to compare and contrast the various teachings - but I think it should be done from firstly examining the commonality first, rather than concentrating on the differences. But human nature is such that a disagreement always attracts more attention than agreement.

Cheers,
Shafique

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/5minbud.htm A philosophy not really a religion, not worshiping a god, a sound moral code, compatibility with science and other faiths - Sounds pretty good to me! The spiritual texts also treat men and women equally.

kanelli wrote: The spiritual texts also treat men and women equally.

As far as I remember Jesus Christ treated equaly not only men and women who dressed modestly but also counted prostitute as a human being. Unfortunately a church after St. Paul has emphasizes mostly on the Jew's book.

I doubt that Islam can attract a lot of white women except ones who married for Muzlim men. I have not seen any digit about conversion.

Red Chief wrote:

kanelli wrote: The spiritual texts also treat men and women equally.

As far as I remember Jesus Christ treated equaly not only men and women who dressed modestly but also counted prostitute as a human being. Unfortunately a church after St. Paul has emphasizes mostly on the Jew's book.

I doubt that Islam can attract a lot of white women except ones who married for Muzlim men. I have not seen any digit about conversion.

Here are some lovely quotes from the Bible about women - http://www.religioustolerance.org/fem_bibl.htm

kanelli wrote:

Red Chief wrote:

kanelli wrote: The spiritual texts also treat men and women equally.

As far as I remember Jesus Christ treated equaly not only men and women who dressed modestly but also counted prostitute as a human being. Unfortunately a church after St. Paul has emphasizes mostly on the Jew's book.

I doubt that Islam can attract a lot of white women except ones who married for Muzlim men. I have not seen any digit about conversion.

Here are some lovely quotes from the Bible about women - http://www.religioustolerance.org/fem_bibl.htm

You obviously did not read what I wrote. I have to agree to Shafique about priority the initial text against loony sites.

Once more I wrote what Christ had said, not Jew's brethren.

Misery Called Life wrote:Be grateful for what you have and appreciate it.

Thats my main critizism of Buddism p.e. It takes away ambition. I dont think the worlds big inventors were/are grateful and appreciative of their current situation. They were/are restless, full with ambition and extremely motivated to discover something new. They were/are not sitting in their chair smoking a pipe thinking how good everything is now.

^We have a Buddhist monk who has posted a couple of times in the religion forum - I'm sure he can shed some light on this aspect of Buddhism.

The 'fatalistic' criticism you describe is not limited to Buddhism but also found amongst ascetics in other religions too (Islam has it's Sufis who just meditate, the Hindus have their Sadhu and monks exist in Christianity as well as eastern religions) - but I've found that the philosophy of each is deeper than outsider observers initially see.

But on the 'Fatalism' vs going out and making things happen - I totally agree with your sentiment.

Cheers,
Shafique