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Talk about things getting out of hand.

http://www.peopleforum.cn/viewthread.php?tid=42386

Canadian troops are being forced to pull out of a military base in the United Arab Emirates that supports their mission in Afghanistan amid an ongoing dispute over airline landing rights, officials said Monday.

The facility, known as Camp Mirage, is widely believed to be located at al-Minhad Air Base outside Dubai, though in the past neither the Emirates nor Canada has definitively acknowledged its location there.

Canada and other U.S. allies use the base as a logistical and supply site for operations in and out of Afghanistan, where Canada has about 2,900 troops as part of the NATO-led mission. Canada has said its mission in Afganistan will end in 2011.

The departure of the Canadians from Camp Mirage follows years of wrangling over requests from the Arab Gulf nation to boost the number of long-haul routes its fast-growing state carriers can operate into Canadian airports.

Canada says the base pullout won't hurt its contribution to NATO's mission in Afghanistan. However, the facility was expected to play an important role in the withdrawal of Canadian troops and equipment from Afghanistan. Losing access to Dubai could complicate those plans.

Canada had a years-old right to operate out of Camp Mirage under an agreement that expired in June, according to an Emirati official familiar with the negotiations.

The official, who insisted on anonymity as a condition for speaking about the matter, said the agreement was extended through the end of September "in a show of goodwill" as the two countries worked to hammer out a deal that included landing right concessions.

"That show of goodwill was not reciprocated on the Canadian side," the official said.

A Canadian government official, who wasn't authorized to discuss the matter with the media and also spoke on condition of anonymity, confirmed the pullout and said Canadian troops are working on a contingency plan to relocate military assets stationed at the base.

Canadian Defense Minister Peter MacKay said the military was assessing "various options" as alternatives, The Canadian Press reported.

"We'll find other ways to support this mission through other hubs in the region," MacKay said during a two-day tour of Kandahar, where Canadian troops are concentrated.

UAE airlines Emirates and Etihad each run three flights a week to Canada. The two carriers are growing rapidly in large part by launching long-haul routes to cities across the globe that funnel travelers to their hubs in Dubai and Abu Dhabi for connecting flights.

The UAE says more flights should be allowed into Canada to keep up with demand.

But Air Canada has argued against increasing the flights, saying there is very little passenger traffic originating from the UAE and that the airlines are merely taking Canadians to third countries with stopovers in the Gulf.

Both Emirates and Etihad declined to comment on the dispute Monday. Air Canada didn't respond to requests for comment.

The UAE's ambassador to Ottawa, Mohammed Abdullah al-Ghafli, said it was unfortunate negotiations over landing rights had become "so protracted and frustrating." In an e-mailed statement, he said 25,000 Canadians live in the UAE, and that the country is Canada's largest trading partner in the Middle East.

"The UAE entered negotiations in good faith on the understanding that a solution would be reached and that constructive ideas would be brought to the negotiating table. The fact that this has not come about undoubtedly affects the bilateral relationship," he said.

Word of the Canadian pullout comes just days after the UAE dropped its threat to ban key data features on BlackBerrys, the popular handsets made by Research in Motion Ltd., one of Canada's most prominent technology companies.

AP

LOOOL Its old news but worth a laugh any day, you should see the moaning and crying going on in the Canadian press about it. With "threats" like fine now we will pull out our soilders and see who will protect the UAE, We should cut all trade with UAE and then we will see where they get their metals and grain from. Deny all UAE citizens Canadian immigration !? WTF !

Also UAE lobbied against Canada for the seat on the UN securoty council and it lost. That really pissed them off.

I for once am in favour of what UAE did. Canada was resorting to unwarranted protectionism about the landing rights, yeah like there was ever going to be direct flights from Canada to UAE by the Canadian domestic airlines.

UAE played out a well thought out diplomatic move, used all its leverage and won. Now its just ticking them off that get got outsmarted. This time sorry Canada you loose. Next time gadget

desertdudeshj wrote:UAE played out a well thought out diplomatic move, used all its leverage and won. Now its just ticking them off that get got outsmarted. This time sorry Canada you loose. Next time gadget

I fail to see how they "won"

Also, will Canadian telecom firms be allowed to operate in the UAE? Why should protectionism be bad when it comes to airlines but good when it comes to telecom ?

The blackberry fiasco didn't have anything to do with protectionsim. UAE wasn't claiming that BB cutting into local markets. They phrased it as a secuirty issue.

They won in the sense. Canada's ass got kicked. The lost the UN seat aswell as the base. Which is going to/or has moved to Cyprus. Read extra logistic expenditure.

For once just glad to see someone in the region grow a pair for a change. Instead of being obidient little gutless pawns.

DD2, the only moaning and crying that I saw on the Canuck News was regarding the Security Council. Canada was not even close to getting that seat compared to Portugal, and the UAE's snub was incidental. Obviously it was not meant to be this round.

The loss has nothing to do with the UAE (except that one vote).

It is no secret that Canada's military is useless and our airlines even more useless. It is not Canada that is resorting to protectionism, it is the UAE, and the chief of Emirates made that quite clear that it is not his fault that the UAE government supports them and protects their interests here. The UAE carriers fly into Canada, but not the other way around. It is also of note that Qantas does not fly here, yet the 2 big UAE carriers fly everywhere in Australia.

I think other airlines do not fly here because they cannot compete due to governmental support. For that I applaud the government here. Canada, Australia, the USA and others have seen airlines fail miserably, while the two major carriers here prosper and expand.

The UAE does not have any leverage. Their airlines fly to Canada. not vice-versa. As far as the UN diplomatic move, it was one vote of hundreds, Canada was never getting that seat.

I like that you follow Canadian news, I am assuming there is a pending residency application? Be nice to my country, they can offer you citizenship, the place that you currently call home will certainly not and will boot your butt back home the second you turn 60.

-- Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:19 am --

desertdudeshj wrote:The blackberry fiasco didn't have anything to do with protectionsim. UAE wasn't claiming that BB cutting into local markets. They phrased it as a secuirty issue.

They won in the sense. Canada's peach got kicked. The lost the UN seat aswell as the base. Which is going to/or has moved to Cyprus. Read extra logistic expenditure.

For once just glad to see someone in the region grow a pair for a change. Instead of being obidient little gutless pawns.

Ok, DD2, you and me at the bike racks after school. The fewer troops we have out here, the better. The UN seat, see above post. The UAE's vote counted jack squat. Canada already keeps a shedload of troops in Cyprus and has paid their UN dues in peacekeepers there for years. It will be of minimal financial/logistical difficulties.

You see I'm quite active on some Cabadian forums aswell and there is a HUGE cry going on about this. The UAE did lobby against Canada for the UN seat it even admits this in the local rags. Wheter it made any difference or not, hard to tell. As the Canadian themselves blame Iggy and Harper. Canada's pro Israeli policy and cutting funding for the Pal's lost them the muslim and arab bloc. On the other hand the ticked off Russia too with the sabre rattling over the artic. USA left them hanging too this time round from what I hear. Most probably it would have lost the seat anyways, but does tick off the Canadians to no end that the UAE lobbied against them, I would be too if I was Canadian.

As for the landing rights AFAIK UAE was only talking about direct flights from Canada to UAE. Emirates already does this from Toronto. And my mate is very happy about this as he won't have to stop over in Europe specially since they have a little one this year with them.

And don't get me wrong, I think Canada's a brilliant country. After I finally succumed to the realisation that after having a spent lifetime here the rules might change was only a figment of my imagination. So I scoured the globe as to which would be a good place to call home. I have many mates spread across the globe. So after extensive discussion the US was crossed out, so was Australia, UK, New Zealand etc etc and out of them all the best was Canada.

So I went into a year long R&D study about Canada. Got a school friend there who moved from teh US and now is a Canadian citizen living in Kitchner. trying to get as much info as possible. Hooked up on a few active forums to talk to the natives and not I don't mean the first nations kind and learn as much as I can about that wonderfull country of yours.

And as soon as I'm able to tie up a few more loose ends which the last years recession brought on us. I'm putting in my papers ! And the day the visa arrives its adios muchachos UAE.

-- Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:42 am --

BTW I somehow always thought you were an Ozzie ? bah my bad I guess

desertdudeshj wrote:
BTW I somehow always thought you were an Ozzie ? bah my bad I guess

Jesus Christo. Kanelli and myself are the Canadian banner-wavers around here. Not too sure about Canadian forums, are they any good? Are they just like DF, a bunch of wannabe immigrants whining? I respect the fact that you are doing your research , you don't want to go back to Peshawar?

H.A H.A very funny. I've never been to peshawar in my life or must have stayed a combined total of six months of life in Pakistan and an absolute stranger there. I think the closet description would be a stateless person at the moment. Pakitani citizenship holder, but thats not home by any stretch of the imagination. Home has always been here, but sadly it will not last so have to think of contigency plans.

As for the forums, quite the opposite really. Canadians always moaning about how they don't need immigration and all the brown people need to leave and how they are a drain on the social system, Ban muslim immigration, stop sharia, ban the burqa. Quebecios want to become independent or ban English. The usual.

desertdudeshj wrote:As for the forums, quite the opposite really. Canadians always moaning about how they don't need immigration and all the brown people need to leave and how they are a drain on the social system, Ban muslim immigration, stop sharia, ban the burqa. Quebecios want to become independent or ban English. The usual.

Well, Canada is built on immigration. I am all for people that want to contribute to the country and call it home, but there is a great deal of people that are just after the passport. I support the Canadian immigration laws, ESPECIALLY the one that says that a child born to naturalized parents is not automatically a citizen. I think that law is great. I am sick of people going to Canada, doing "their time"..getting a passport then returning to their home country and pump out kids that are auto-canuck. Bollocks.

They ARE a drain on the social system. I think the sponges should be booted out.

As far as banning Muslims, I disagree. My hometown just elected a Muslim Mayor! Sharia has no place in Canada, and if you have done your homework, that is very clear in the documentation now. They make it quite clear that the laws of Canada apply, not those of Sharia.

As far as banning the Burqaa. Wearing one in downtown (insert city here) would draw stares and attention. It would be the same as a western girl wearing a bikini in the spice souk here. Utterly ridiculous. I say go ahead and wear it, but you will draw all the attention that the Burqaa is supposed to deflect.

Quebeckers have been whining about separation for decades now. It will never end. I say let them go, put up a big wall, then invade them and take back the land. And I am a French Canadian. So there you go.

dubaidog wrote:

desertdudeshj wrote:As for the forums, quite the opposite really. Canadians always moaning about how they don't need immigration and all the brown people need to leave and how they are a drain on the social system, Ban muslim immigration, stop sharia, ban the burqa. Quebecios want to become independent or ban English. The usual.

Well, Canada is built on immigration. I am all for people that want to contribute to the country and call it home, but there is a great deal of people that are just after the passport. I support the Canadian immigration laws, ESPECIALLY the one that says that a child born to naturalized parents is not automatically a citizen. I think that law is great. I am sick of people going to Canada, doing "their time"..getting a passport then returning to their home country and pump out kids that are auto-canuck. Bollocks.

They ARE a drain on the social system. I think the sponges should be booted out.

As far as banning Muslims, I disagree. My hometown just elected a Muslim Mayor! Sharia has no place in Canada, and if you have done your homework, that is very clear in the documentation now. They make it quite clear that the laws of Canada apply, not those of Sharia.

As far as banning the Burqaa. Wearing one in downtown (insert city here) would draw stares and attention. It would be the same as a western girl wearing a bikini in the spice souk here. Utterly ridiculous. I say go ahead and wear it, but you will draw all the attention that the Burqaa is supposed to deflect.

Quebeckers have been whining about separation for decades now. It will never end. I say let them go, put up a big wall, then invade them and take back the land. And I am a French Canadian. So there you go.

Hey, now your starting to sound familiar. The line between DF and the cannuck forums just blurred there for a second. I know, I know this is all exaggerated online schinzzel. Its a very decent place. Like I said a good buddy of mine been living there for 6/7 years now and the average Canadian couldn't give a rats ass if your brown. black or yellow. As long as your a good human being its all good. Just about the same in almost every other place in this world.

As for immigration, I've come to the view majority of "home grown" canadians think its a walk in the park all ya gotta do is sign the dotted line and they roll out the red carpet for you. As for illegal immigration like the recent Tamil ships that I agree gots to stop.

And interesting, your from Calgary I see, Naheed Nenshi has already started to give some 'phobes nightmares.

DD2 said, "Canadians always moaning about how they don't need immigration and all the brown people need to leave and how they are a drain on the social system, Ban muslim immigration, stop sharia, ban the burqa. Quebecios want to become independent or ban English. The usual. "

I rarely hear any Canadians under the age of 60 saying Canada doesn't need immigration. Canadians princess about anyone being a drain on the social system, whether they are brown, immigrant or not! Hello, welfare mothers get quite the fair share of tongue lashing. It may be very true that Canadian authorities are being stricter about granting landed immigrant status to Muslims - doing more background checking. My friends trying to sponsor Muslim husbands have to wait over a year to get permission to reside in Canada. Others with non-Muslim husbands, around 6 months. I'm about to sponsor my non-Muslim husband soon, so I'll keep you posted. Are Canadians supposed to like not seeing the face of those in public? It isn't in our collective meshed tradition to be comfortable interacting with people with covered faces. Also, we have tolerance for two legal systems in Canada - common law in the rest of Canada, civil law in Quebec. Sorry if we don't want separate religious laws for every religion present in Canada. Canada has taken hundreds of years to create legal systems that are increasingly becoming fair to all citizens whether they are male, female, young, old, of any race, colour, religion or sexual orientation. Pardon Canadians for not being interested in allowing any other legal systems to operate that would conflict or over-ride that. Countries like Canada always try to accommodate but ultimately it has to come down to a compromise. Some people are not happy with compromise, and they are welcome to live in countries that have the legal/religious/cultural customs they prefer.

Back on subject, this has previously been discussed on another thread, herewith is a link, originally posted by VW, to an article detailing how Emirates and Etihad receive financial support, ironically from the Governments of the countries to which they fly.

http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a7ftMWxaoMlg

I am familiar with the Export Guarantee Loans available from foreign Governments, one of the requirements to qualify for such a loan is that it is made to a Government body, so Emirates and Etihad qualify as such and are using cheap foreign finance to buy foreign products and services, in this case, aircraft, who wouldn’t? European and American Airlines now want their respective Governments to make available similar cheap finance deals so they can buy the same aircraft at a similar cost, sounds good in principal but financial subsidy to a domestic company comes under a different set of financial subsidy rules and thereby lies a huge problem!

The discussion on protectionism, i.e. further denied routes for Emirates and/or Etihad into Canada, will eat into Canada’s domestic market as the proposal is for direct routes to other Canadian Cities and not to increase the traffic on existing hub routes, as the EK business model has done in the UK and other European Countries, in the UK alone, Glasgow, Newcastle, Manchester and Birmingham area residents can fly direct to those airports from the Middle East, they don’t need to fly via London for a domestic connection as you would have to with BA for example, it’s a winning model for Emirates and they’re now attempting to roll out the same model into Canada, and Canada want to protect their domestic market, who wouldn’t?

desertdudeshj wrote:The blackberry fiasco didn't have anything to do with protectionsim. UAE wasn't claiming that BB cutting into local markets. They phrased it as a secuirty issue.

They won in the sense. Canada's peach got kicked. The lost the UN seat aswell as the base. Which is going to/or has moved to Cyprus. Read extra logistic expenditure.

For once just glad to see someone in the region grow a pair for a change. Instead of being obidient little gutless pawns.

I am not talking about BB.

I am talking about whether any Canadian telecom firm will be able to compete with DU/etisalat.

The Canadians are protecting their crappy airline, while here its telecom firms which are being protected....

kanelli wrote:DD2 said, "Canadians always moaning about how they don't need immigration and all the brown people need to leave and how they are a drain on the social system, Ban muslim immigration, stop sharia, ban the burqa. Quebecios want to become independent or ban English. The usual. "

I rarely hear any Canadians under the age of 60 saying Canada doesn't need immigration. Canadians princess about anyone being a drain on the social system, whether they are brown, immigrant or not! Hello, welfare mothers get quite the fair share of tongue lashing. It may be very true that Canadian authorities are being stricter about granting landed immigrant status to Muslims - doing more background checking. My friends trying to sponsor Muslim husbands have to wait over a year to get permission to reside in Canada. Others with non-Muslim husbands, around 6 months. I'm about to sponsor my non-Muslim husband soon, so I'll keep you posted. Are Canadians supposed to like not seeing the face of those in public? It isn't in our collective meshed tradition to be comfortable interacting with people with covered faces. Also, we have tolerance for two legal systems in Canada - common law in the rest of Canada, civil law in Quebec. Sorry if we don't want separate religious laws for every religion present in Canada. Canada has taken hundreds of years to create legal systems that are increasingly becoming fair to all citizens whether they are male, female, young, old, of any race, colour, religion or sexual orientation. Pardon Canadians for not being interested in allowing any other legal systems to operate that would conflict or over-ride that. Countries like Canada always try to accommodate but ultimately it has to come down to a compromise. Some people are not happy with compromise, and they are welcome to live in countries that have the legal/religious/cultural customs they prefer.

Hmmm..I think Canadians are way too touchy about this sharia thing than anyone else. My intial comment was sarcastic in the sense, there is aboslutely no way that would happen in Canada . I was stating that there is the usual myth that every brown man is secretly planing/rooting for it to happen. I think there was some talk about it in some city and was quickly shot down.

So please don't get knickers in a twist over something that really isn't there. My My two whole sermons over nothing !