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and this is how you buy a property in Israel.. just drink a cub of tea !
which is NOT a threat like stealing water....lets watch .... or for some ,just look the other way.



it is sad calling those people civilized humans

uaekid wrote:and this is how you buy a property in Israel.. just drink a cub of tea !
which is NOT a threat like stealing water....lets watch .... or for some ,just look the other way.

it is sad calling those people civilized humans

This the second video I've seen where non-Jews are being called Nazis by Jews. I find it ironic how the Jews, in subtle ways, do to the Palestinians what was done to them by Nazis. For instance, killing of women and children to stop procreation and the future generation of Palestinians. Oh, wait. What are these women and children called by Jews? Oh, yeah, collateral damage. They just happened to be in the way when the Jews were trying to kill the men. Oh, yeah, also, they were in the way when the Jews were destroying the Palestinians homes because the Palestinians were..........where?.....oh, yeah, on land that belongs to Jews - in Palestine.

Bora Bora wrote:For instance, killing of women and children to stop procreation and the future generation of Palestinians.

And yet the growth rate of Arabs in Israel is higher than that of Jews.

Since they suffered a holocaust they get one free genocide of their own

Now the secular and democratic nation of Israel wants to be exclusively jewish and and send all Israeli arabs away to palestine.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-d ... p-1.314596

desertdudeshj wrote:Now the secular and democratic nation of Israel wants to be exclusively jewish and and send all Israeli arabs away to palestine.

Huh?

I am no fan of Lieberman, I think he is scary. His ideas though I find very pragmatic though:
-forget about the green line
-Israel, the jewish state, will consist of areas (including those outside the green line) that are predominatly jewish now
-Palestine, will consist of areas (including those within the green line) that are predominatly arab now
-All people in future Israel (including arabs) should pledge loyalty to the jewish state, if not they can go to Palestine
-All people in future Palestine (including jews) should pledge loyalty to the Palestinian state, if not they should move to Israel.

Sounds good to me. Sounds bad for those not wanting Israel to be a jewish state and those that want a jew-free Palestine.

Flying Dutchman wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:For instance, killing of women and children to stop procreation and the future generation of Palestinians.

And yet the growth rate of Arabs in Israel is higher than that of Jews.

Not according to this:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/139547
or
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/138245

to this I say to you:

Its not just liberman, read the link again and liberman is the foriegn minister and his words so carry weight

Recognizing Israel as uniquely Jewish is one of the key demands by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in the latest peace talks with the Palestinians

Bora Bora wrote:

Flying Dutchman wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:For instance, killing of women and children to stop procreation and the future generation of Palestinians.

And yet the growth rate of Arabs in Israel is higher than that of Jews.

Not according to this:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/139547
or
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/138245

to this I say to you:

From your links:

For one thing, the fertility gap between Arab and Jewish women dropped from six births per woman in 1969 to 0.7 in 2009.

Arab fertility is 3,5, jewish fertility is 2,8 in 2009.

My statement:

the growth rate of Arabs in Israel is higher than that of Jews.

still stands.

-- Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:17 pm --

desertdudeshj wrote:Its not just liberman, read the link again and liberman is the foriegn minister and his words so carry weight

Recognizing Israel as uniquely Jewish is one of the key demands by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in the latest peace talks with the Palestinians

I am aware that Netanyahu wants Abbas to recognize Israel as a jewish state, not as a uniquely (in the sense of only consisting of jews) jewish state

kanelli wrote:Sorry, but even if I had been near some bombing it wouldn't make me blind to the suffering of those on the other side as well. Even with negative personal experience one should strive for more objectivity, though I know it can be difficult.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

K while i appreciate this is your view, I wonder if you would feel the same way if your family had been on the receiving end of an indiscriminate rocket attack? I'm afraid your post smacks of a great deal of naivety. if, after you had been through the experience and felt the same way, then I would say you are a far better person that I could ever claim to be. I can say to you that if anyone attempted to do serious harm to my family I am capable of causing serious injury to them without a moments hesitation or a second thought.

BM, I can see where you are coming from. It seems to me that you were at the wrong place at the wrong time and you were not involved in the politics of either side. You said for certain reasons you could not go into detail, which leaves questions to those reading. But try to step outside of the box and see it for what it is. People on both sides are suffering in many ways at the hands of the leaders of Israel and Palestine. That's the bottom line.

There are Jews who work towards better relations with Palestinians, but it is those people that doesn't find their way into the news. While in the States, I worked for someone whose brother, sister-in-law, niece and nephew (duel passports (American and Israeli)) lived in Israel, and the parents worked with other Jews with Palestinians towards better relations. Eventually they left Israel because the mother and father didn't want their son to go into the military, which is madatory. They didn't want their son to be part of something that they totally did not agree with and were, in the eyes of hardliner Jews (who, in their opinion were lead blindly to support the government) outcasts. These were people who lived every day wondering, as well as having to deal with their own who found them to be "traitors". These were genuinely good people who did not harbor hatred, but set out to work towards something better.

Here's the view of an Israeli mom who lost a child to a suicide bomber:

http://thejourneyofhope.blogspot.com/20 ... s-for.html

She is pretty much agreeing with Kanelli. It is also worth googling what her husband's views are too.


Cheers
Shafique

And no doubt if I could be ar$ed to google it I could find 1001 people who say they hope they rot in hell.

Cheers
BM

Bethsmum wrote:

kanelli wrote:Sorry, but even if I had been near some bombing it wouldn't make me blind to the suffering of those on the other side as well. Even with negative personal experience one should strive for more objectivity, though I know it can be difficult.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

K while i appreciate this is your view, I wonder if you would feel the same way if your family had been on the receiving end of an indiscriminate rocket attack? I'm afraid your post smacks of a great deal of naivety. if, after you had been through the experience and felt the same way, then I would say you are a far better person that I could ever claim to be. I can say to you that if anyone attempted to do serious harm to my family I am capable of causing serious injury to them without a moments hesitation or a second thought.

Bethsmum, why do you think some Palestinians are sending rockets into Israel? Do you think it is because they were displaced from their land, and they live packed like sardines in areas and kept literally as prisoners in "camps". They live daily with destroyed infrastructure and little money coming in to make the situation better. They cannot work easily and kids cannot always get to school. Does that sound like a place you'd like to live? I suppose they are just a bunch of whiners though, it could be worse (like they could all be rounded up and slaughtered) right? I'm not saying that Palestinians are justified in bombing Israel and killing citizens. However, I'm not saying that Israel has the right to commit the injustices and atrocities it does to the Palestinians. So, I still stand by my comment that being on the receiving end of an attack, while extremely frightening, should not blind people to the root of the cause. All citizens are pawns in the larger game, and they need to exert pressure for their governments to stop the madness and come up with a solution for peace so that everyone can relax and not worry about rocket attacks or suicide bombings.

And by the way, my husband could have been blown to bits at our local shopping mall in 2002. The perpetrator? A mentally ill 19 year old. Seven people were killed, 166 people injured from the shotgun pellets in the bomb that were blasted from one end of the mall to the other. The bomber set the bomb off on a Friday night when many people do their shopping for the weekend, and the bomb went off where kids had finished watching a clown show. We were certainly naive that something like that could happen, but realistically attacks can happen any time in any public place or even in a person's own private home.

Have you considered that the Isrealis are just protecting their people? I'm afraid none of your arguments will change my view If the Palestinians stopped kicking off every so often things would calm down and the Isrealis would loosen their grip. And I also stand by my statement that if someone purposely set out to hurt my family and if it was in my capability they would be history. We aren't talking about mentally ill people here but people intent on murder of innocent civilians going about their business in Isreal.

Protecting their people is one thing and effectively turning an entire nation into a prison camp is another. How exactly does Israel protect its people by stealing land, destroying houses for use by their own settlers. And that is not going about their normal bussiness.

You said it yourself you will defend your family tooth and nail, so what would you do if one day bulldozers turned up at your door step and gave an hour to evacuate or face the possibilty to being flattened alive.

Its not about chaging views but thinking rationally.

As far as I am concerned I am thinking rationally.

Fair enough, but then I gotta ask, so do you think all that the Israeli govt and IDF are doing " to protect its citizens" is justified, reasonable and fair.

Absolutely they have my total respect. I'm not the only person who thinks like this y'now!

Yeah I know and thats whats truely frightening. On one side person claims to be rationale and then on the other is so blantantly baised.

In my experience you will never get an unbiased opinion from a blind Israeli govt and IDF supporter. I don't mean that in an insulting way. I have both Muslim friends and Jewish ones too, I love them all. Just my opinion.

This is certainly not rational nor unbiased:

desertdudeshj wrote:Since they suffered a holocaust they get one free genocide of their own

Au contraire, its the view of an extremist.

You skipped school the day the were teaching about sarcasm right ?

DD I have never claimed to be anything but in total support of the Isrealis, I think it is perfectly rational. Just because I am not of the same opinion as you, why does that make you right and me wrong? That is also very frightening. As I say you will never get an unbiased view from a muslim on Arab/Isreali conflict. You are biased towards the Palestinians for what ever reason whilst I am biased towards the Jews. So what? You are no cleverer or better than me.

Bethsmum wrote:DD I have never claimed to be anything but in total support of the Isrealis, I think it is perfectly rational. Just because I am not of the same opinion as you, why does that make you right and me wrong? That is also very frightening. As I say you will never get an unbiased view from a muslim on Arab/Isreali conflict. You are biased towards the Palestinians for what ever reason whilst I am biased towards the Jews. So what? You are no cleverer or better than me.

BM, the reason you find Muslims with the view that they have towards Jews is that they see things just the opposite of you. I would like to add that you will never get an unbiased view from 99% of Jews on Israeli/Arab conflict.

Putting Jews and Muslims to the side, why do the majority of non-Jews see Israel as being the aggressor? Why do other governments see Israel as the aggressor? Palestine has no support in this conflict while Israel has the support of the US, and has lost the support of many countries as recently as the asassination that was carried out by Moussad in Dubai.

Bethsmum wrote:DD I have never claimed to be anything but in total support of the Isrealis, I think it is perfectly rational. Just because I am not of the same opinion as you, why does that make you right and me wrong? That is also very frightening. As I say you will never get an unbiased view from a muslim on Arab/Isreali conflict. You are biased towards the Palestinians for what ever reason whilst I am biased towards the Jews. So what? You are no cleverer or better than me.

I'm not taking sides on this issue, I have no reason to take sides on this as I've already stated here I am no fan of the palestenians, Hamas, the PLO or the leaders of that country or baised towards them for any reason at all.

And I accept and condemn the violent acts of terrorism done against the people of Israel but what I am saying is it does not give them any right to try to squeeze the life out of the entire palestenian population. Which is wrong on a humanitarian, political, legal and what ever criteria or level you choose to use.

Also you didn't answer my question in my earlier post, what would you do if bulldozers showed up at your doorstep one day more than willing to flatten you along with your house if you dont move out ? I've already said your entitled to your opinion but as long as its based on half truths and spin I will not respect it.

If you can prove to me that what ever actions being taken or have been taken by the Israeli goverment and the IDF against the civilian population of palestine is justified, I will be more than happy to eat humble pie and publicy state I am with the Israelis on this one.

Look, I am not trying to influence you at all, and therefore don't have to prove anything. It is my view, nothing else. As for not answering your earlier question about the bulldozers, well I could have asked you how you would feel if your house was hit by 'incoming' but as it's all hypothetical, a bit pointless really.
If we carry on like this you may gain a mention in BM's forthcoming publication 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' LOL. I'm afraid we may have to agree to disagree on this one.

And good evening Bora,
I have to say when I heard of the assassination of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in Dubai, my reaction as 'nice one', it couldn't have happened to a nicer man. Well done lads.

I'm just glad more and more people including many within Israel are starting to disagree with your kind of biased views and opinions and starting to see the broader picture and seeing Israel for the rogue state that it is.

God bless rationality.

Rogue state to you, but not to me. Isreal is a state that is protecting their own people by any means possible. More power to them.

No, rogue state not according to me but Avi Shlaim ex officer in the IDF and a professor at Oxford

This brief review of Israel's record over the past four decades makes it difficult to resist the conclusion that it has become a rogue state with "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". A rogue state habitually violates international law, possesses weapons of mass destruction and practises terrorism - the use of violence against civilians for political purposes. Israel fulfils all of these three criteria; the cap fits and it must wear it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ja ... -palestine

well, first I would like to agree with Bora Bora on most of her points..

Second it is all about "U" AND "US"
You believe what you have in your media, and We believe what we see in our media...
for example most foreign channels won't really show what is happening on Palestinian side, and Arabs media won't focus on what happens in Israel's cafe of bars.

I have been following both sides and believe me they even present the same news in two different ways... that is normal, it is their job i guess. so for you people if you want to see things clear you must see both parties...

But my point is history, forget about what is happening on the ground these days, history will explain it:
By the way Muslims believe in Moses, 1/3 Quran is about him and Jewish people, but anyway.

Of course some people will start saying I am bias, i don't care I am taking about history..and please don't take me to argument that it is their land from 3000 years (why did they leave it then)
I am taking about last 100 years, by the way non of us was alive from 100 years, and non of us will be in 100.

-before 1948 the land was belonging to Palestinian, and Jews were only migrants, but they wanted more
-in and after 1948 the land has been divided into two countries, which was not accepted by Arabs (think if ur home land is getting separated for whatever reason, how will u feel?)

-after that and relation between Israel and its neighbors has be really bad (not surprised)

-in 1956 Israel joined a war on Egypt
-in 1967 Israel attacked its neighbor and occupied (West Bank, Gaza Strip, Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights. Jerusalem's boundaries were enlarged, incorporating East Jerusalem)....was it for Israel security?

-in 1973 Arab countries (Egypt, and Syria) had a war with Israel and captured some of their lands, and Egypt got it all after negotiation, and Syria got some of it I believe
-Since then Palestine is asking Israel to return to the boarders of before 1967, they aren't not asking the whole country back....

With all that, and without looking to what ever happens on the ground, I believe every Palestinian has the right to have a country, and I can't blame them for asking for their basic rights, I know Israel wants their security, but can they just giver the Palestinian their land back?

regardless of the number of times USA used the Veto to prevent penalties on Israel, I think this can turn many Arabs and Muslims and any normal Human being a bit angry,

so how do u think of someone who has no chance to get decent education? someone who is easily brain washed and accept the fact of killing himself just to make Israel night bad?

Terrorists are Human made bombs, they weren't born terrorists....

Whatever Trevor