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The Mideast peace process is again under fire, with fresh attacks on Israel. But Hamas may not be to blame. Reza Aslan on the new breed of militant swarming the Gaza Strip.

A spokesman for Jaish al-Umma says his group’s purpose is “to awaken the Islamic nation from the backwardness and the ignorance the tyrant regimes in Islamic countries have caused, and to free the Muslims from the despots.” according to a spokesman for Jaish al-Umma.

The groups' rank and file members tend to fit the same profile as Hamas militants, but they are usually led by more educated types, like doctors and university professors, who see al Qaeda as their true leaders, rather than Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and- ... wdB8UvAI73

One good point from this all. The educated agree with me that Islam is backward in its current state.
So sad, they are indoctrinated by an ideology that is inherently backwards. But I can understand that its tough to drop your conviction suddenly when you are confronted by opposing forces. People tend to go into defence (of conviction), especially close minded ones, regardless how educated they may be.

Dangerous intellectuals in society. Right, Shafique?

what I gathered from searching is that Islam is one of the fastest if not the fastest crowing religion in the world, how do you explain that? keep in mind ,I'm talking about Americans and Europeans just like you ,and in Europe especially where governments are fighting its spreading and threaten by it as you know.

so to answer your question robbyg, I can't see that it is tough to convert , especially to Islam,right ?
or could it be possible that you know better than all of those who actually studied and learned the real current Islam and believed in it ?

-- Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:50 pm --

you know coming to think of it, it is amazing the trillions of dollars in wars ,media and human lives spent by the west to fight Islam spreading world wide under the umbrella of fighting Terrorism but it still kept growing non stop.

RobbyG wrote: Islam is backward in its current state.
So sad, they are indoctrinated by an ideology that is inherently backwards.:

RobbyG wrote:2. Islam is the youngest one and remains in the Middle Ages. I keep repeating that, cause it uses a backward learning curve IMO. If it tried a forward learning curve, I might improve my stance for once. I haven't seen it yet. But if your happy with it, fine. Just respect my opinion and I do yours.

3. Its comparatively young and indeed, its laws are from the dark ages compared to Western values and laws.

Yawn ...Once again nothing new said, just rephrasing the old. Should have taken my advice and pasted the points in your sig and saved us a lot of trouble.

Keep it on topic boys!

Israel, intellectual terror groups and US interventionism. Oh and a mere confirmation of what I've been saying all along... hahaha

Let me also cut and paste.

Repeating a lie over and over again doesn’t make it true; but it certainly results in people believing the lie. That’s what the Islam-haters are counting on. That, and the ignorance about Islamic tenets.

So the best thing to do is find out what Islam really is about. Talk to a Muslim in person. Read an introduction to Islam (try a fun one like mine). Read Loonwatch to read about the holes in the anti-Islamic rhetoric. Or take a look at the University of Georgia’s informational website on Islam, for some quick answers and further reading. If you read the anti-Islam fear-mongering websites, all you’ll learn will be tall tales.

shafique wrote:

http://www.123muslim.com/muslim-today/1 ... uslim.html

Fatah and Hamas torture us in their prisons. There is not a man that is arrested by them that is not tortured

But it doesn't stop there, Hamas also raids mosques and kills worshippers:

Hamas security forces stormed the mosque in which he was hiding. A deadly firefight ensued in which twenty-four people, including Moussa, were killed.

FD, you're not a happy chappy these days - whats the matter?

Your countryman was trying to argue that Al Qaeda is targeting Israel now - and you couldn't resist reeling out your usual unreferenced snippets about those baad Palestinian politicians!

So, your first unreferenced snippet says that EVERY ONE arrested by Fatah or by Hamas is tortured. Hmm. Pretty strong statement. Everyone? wow - I'd condemn them if they tortured just one person each - unconditionally. But your quote says they torture every man arrested - so they must be really, really evil! oooh.

And your second snippet (again unreferenced) implies you condemn the killing of worshippers - bravo, perhaps you can convince eh to finally condemn the religious terrorist Baruch Goldstein who did exactly this (but as he is a white American dude - and Dude, he HAS not morals- he can't bring himself to condemn him).


Cheers,
Shafique

Quotes are from the article of the OP. Torture of political opponents is common in the Arab/Muslim world, so I wouldn't be surprised that members of the Jund Ansar Allah are indeed tortured on a wide scale.

It is not surprising that Hamas attacking mosques is ignored. After all Muslims killing Muslims are of no concern for Muslims.

A reminder:

The leader of a radical Islamist group involved in a shootout with Hamas in Gaza is one of at least 24 people killed in the raid, reports say.

On Friday Hamas, which controls Gaza, launched a bloody crackdown on the group, Jund Ansar Allah, after it declared an "Islamic emirate".

Scores were injured in the attack, on a mosque in Rafah, near the Egypt border.

Hamas fighters on Friday fired rocket-propelled grenades at Ibn-Taymiyah mosque, where at least 100 Jund Ansar Allah supporters were holed up.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8202746.stm

Flying Dutchman wrote:After all Muslims killing Muslims are of no concern for Muslims.

Ah, the hatred is never far from the surface is it FD? De-humanising, exaggeration and general looniness seems to come so naturally.

So, you took the quote from al-Ghazi about how Hamas treats 'his people' when they arrest them, then you try to spin it as if Hamas attacks worshippers - hmm, thanks to the BBC article reference we can compare your spin with the actual event from last year, I'll give 8.5/10 for effort...

It reminds me of the thread you started:
philosophy-dubai/the-only-time-muslims-seek-peace-when-they-need-reload-t42509.html#p341838

shafique wrote:

event horizon wrote:Peace with Islam and Muslims is impossible. The only time Muslims seek peace is when they need to reload.

And when I asked FD whether he agreed with eh's quote, the question was not rhetorical.

That question still hasn't been answered.

shafique wrote:

Flying Dutchman wrote:After all Muslims killing Muslims are of no concern for Muslims.

Ah, the hatred is never far from the surface is it FD? De-humanising, exaggeration and general looniness seems to come so naturally.

Did I miss the power of condemnation of Hamas' attack on the mosque during above foaming rant of personal attacks?

shafique wrote:So, you took the quote from al-Ghazi about how Hamas treats 'his people' when they arrest them, then you try to spin it as if Hamas attacks worshippers - hmm, thanks to the BBC article reference we can compare your spin with the actual event from last year.

Hamas' attack on the mosque took place during the Friday prayers.

The Salafi's claim to be living as close as possible to the first generation of Muslims. Hamas opposses them and attacks their mosque.

Hamas didn't just attack the mosque (reports are that Hamas monitors mosques in Gaza to determine if the sermons are speaking out against Hamas, Islamophobia anyone?) but one source I'm aware of said that Hamas shot activists of the mosque as they were being transported to the hospital by ambulance.

This is just one crime against many that Hamas has committed during their tenure of Gaza - others include widespread torture of political opponents from Fath or from the Islamist groups, corruption on the level of the PA, the closing of human rights offices and charities, an attack on another mosque that heavily damaged the mosque and the censuring of the press and arbitrary detainment and often times torture of Gazan journalists and reporters.

It's no surprise that some in Gaza are pushing back against these war crimes and I can't say I very much blame them. Internal reports from Hamas reveal the group is worried that their hold on power could crumble as a result of the bombing campaign of Islamists against the Hamas terror movement. Hamas dug their own grave and now they should have to lie in it.

Fanbois and their spin - it is impressive.

The article is about attacks not being carried out by Hamas, and yet they can't help themselves ...

I have to say, I understand the frustration - because of Israel's bungling, Hamas has emerged stronger politically, and has comprehensively beaten Israel in the PR stakes in relation to Gaza (until this latest round of violence - in which Israel is still killing many more Palestinians than vice versa - including the grand-dad the IDF thought was a terrorist!). No wonder you guys are fuming.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Let me also cut and paste.

It doesn't matter whether one cuts or pastes. Its better to be humble than take credit for other people insights. Hence my quote.

Nonetheless, you know I touched the core of the issue. You and I are not far apart in understanding. You just don't want to see the reality, even though I trim down the nuance a bit, to get to the core of the issue, which is a tough pill for most people who believe in an ideology.

Your silence says it all.

Why does Shafique refer to everyone who doesn't agree with him as a 'loon'. It's a description he uses alot. I'm afraid there's no reasoning with a religious fanatic. The wheel's still spinning but the hamster's dead.

Bethsmum wrote:Why does Shafique refer to everyone who doesn't agree with him as a 'loon'. It's a description he uses alot. I'm afraid there's no reasoning with a religious fanatic. The wheel's still spinning but the hamster's dead.

I happen to think of Shafique to be a very reasonable man. But when it comes to his religious ideology, he's a bit close minded per my opinion. This close mindedness, combined with his convincing intellect and communication style, makes him a dangerous intellectual in society.

From my humble view, he's a respectable guy. A bit too left to see the reality. He should drop the loon stickers on people. It doesn't suit his credibility. I agree.

Religion 24/7 makes you fanatical. There's more to life than banging on about Islam.

Then you would also agree, someone banging on about being Anti religious/Islam 24/7 also should be labled a fanatic. Only fair I think.

Haha, we call that a critic. An outspoken one. I understand your issue,...after all, they are rare in the Islamic world.

About time an outsider came hammering your head with sanity.

So one set of rules and logic applied to one = Fanatic
Same set of rules and logic applied to other = Critic.

Another one of your tricks, when called upon and made to look like a fool, claim to be playing the devils advocate to save face.

I actual agree with BM on that one, I can't stand people like that myself, trust me I've met a few in my lifetime aswell. Doesn't matter if that person is religious,agnostic or atheist.

You should in fact make the distinction that I do not have an opposing religion and I happen to comment on a whole range of global issues, with one just happening to be here on this forum. Thats a critic. Perhaps with a hard bite...

Get a life mate. My post in repsonse to BM wasn't directed towards you, it was in general. Contary to your belief my life does not revolve around you.

But since your desperate about my opinion about you, the here go. Yes your a critic and a very strong one at that about Islam, but really don't know much about the subject.
But your a fanatic when it comes to atheism and anti religion.

Happy now !

Why does Shafique refer to everyone who doesn't agree with him as a 'loon'. It's a description he uses alot.

Loon is a specific term, and is not used for critics of Islam in general..

shafique wrote:Loon is a term that is now being used more and more to describe the actions of Islamophobes and their 'beliefs'. There is a website dedicated to exposing loons:


Loonwatch.com is a blogzine run by a motley group of hate-allergic bloggers to monitor and expose the web’s plethora of anti-Muslim loons, wackos, and conspiracy theorists.

While we find the sheer stupidity and outrageousness of the loons to be a source of invaluable comedy, we also recognize the seriousness of the danger they represent as dedicated hatemongers. And so, while our style reflects our bemusement, our content is fact checked and our sources well vetted making sure loonwatch.com is a reliable educational – if entertaining – resource on the rambunctious underworld of Muslim-bashing.

Loon noun

1. a worthless lazy fellow
2. a person with confused ideas; incapable of serious thought [syn: addle-head]
3. large somewhat primitive fish-eating diving bird of the northern hemisphere having webbed feet placed far back; related to the grebes
Source: WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.

And so, grab a cup of coffee and join us, won’t you, as we expose the trials and travails of the hatemongers in our midst: loons in the mist.

http://www.loonwatch.com/about/


Well worth an occasional read, and I will continue to link/post the more interesting articles.

desertdudeshj wrote:Get a life mate. My post in repsonse to BM wasn't directed towards you, it was in general. Contary to your belief my life does not revolve around you.

But since your desperate about my opinion about you, the here go. Yes your a critic and a very strong one at that about Islam, but really don't know much about the subject.
But your a fanatic when it comes to atheism and anti religion.

Happy now !

No, you're my pisspole as long as you appear in my timeline of topics. You know that.

You'll never win it on substance fella. Except for dune-bashing perhaps. You always 'lose out' on the personal attacks. Weakness!

OOh I'm going to stick around, I can learn some lessons here!