Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!??

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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
^Putin or Stalin, I'd guess.

shafique
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
shafique wrote:^Putin or Stalin, I'd guess.

Second try is correct. I'm surprized your hesitation. :wink: 8)
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
:)

Hey, I wasn't sure whether the youngsters would remember Stalin! ;)

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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
You should be ashamed because you are a hypocrite liar!

So if u really believe that Ahmadinejad is popular among MAJORITY of Iranians why did u support last years movements against him?!!

As I said nobody has any objection against Mosadegh is popular ( before and after the revolution) So what s ur point?

And I agree with RC, such polls has no validity for anyone!

-- Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:39 pm --

btw, reagrding the ipod revolution! U must know sth, whenever ahmadinejad has a meeting, they brought some people from rural areas, feed them with potatoes and make them to cheers him!! They are known as potaote people!! so if u referring to them as majority of Iranians you are insulting me and my nation!

but that s so typical, I know ur type! :lol:
melika969
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
Calm down dear Mel.

I tend to support the underdogs when given a choice - so why would my support of the Government opposition mean that I don't believe the article above which states that Ahmadinejad is popular with the rural people?

I never said that I believed Mossadegh wasn't popular - quite the opposite, my point has always been that he WAS a popular politician who wanted to do the best for Iran but was deposed in a CIA organised coup (against the will of the people).

Chill dear lady, chill.

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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
U didnt say rural people! U said majority of Iranians! again u are changing ur words!
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
Yes, I said majority of people - read the article - it says that the majority of Iranians support Ahamdinejad, but his support is mainly in the rural areas, and less so in Urban areas (but even there he has support).

The article isn't written by a Muslim btw - but from a US think tank, as far as I can make out.

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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
So u believe in this article, u beleive majority of Iranians support Ahmadinejad, and then u support the movements against him, may I ask why?!
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
Mel, I have no idea whether the author is spinning a pack of lies or telling the gospel truth - I don't know him and the closest I've been to Iran is the Iranian hospital in Dubai..

I have no reason to doubt him though.

However, let me quote what he says about Ahmadinejad's popularity in full:

Some still charge that Ahmadinejad cheated. That is certainly a possibility, but it is difficult to see how he could have stolen the election by such a large margin. Doing so would have required the involvement of an incredible number of people, and would have risked creating numbers that quite plainly did not jibe with sentiment in each precinct. Widespread fraud would mean that Ahmadinejad manufactured numbers in Tehran without any regard for the vote. But he has many powerful enemies who would quickly have spotted this and would have called him on it. Mousavi still insists he was robbed, and we must remain open to the possibility that he was, although it is hard to see the mechanics of this.

Ahmadinejad’s Popularity

It also misses a crucial point: Ahmadinejad enjoys widespread popularity. He doesn’t speak to the issues that matter to the urban professionals, namely, the economy and liberalization. But Ahmadinejad speaks to three fundamental issues that accord with the rest of the country.

First, Ahmadinejad speaks of piety. Among vast swathes of Iranian society, the willingness to speak unaffectedly about religion is crucial. Though it may be difficult for Americans and Europeans to believe, there are people in the world to whom economic progress is not of the essence; people who want to maintain their communities as they are and live the way their grandparents lived. These are people who see modernization — whether from the shah or Mousavi — as unattractive. They forgive Ahmadinejad his economic failures.

Second, Ahmadinejad speaks of corruption. There is a sense in the countryside that the ayatollahs — who enjoy enormous wealth and power, and often have lifestyles that reflect this — have corrupted the Islamic Revolution. Ahmadinejad is disliked by many of the religious elite precisely because he has systematically raised the corruption issue, which resonates in the countryside.

Third, Ahmadinejad is a spokesman for Iranian national security, a tremendously popular stance. It must always be remembered that Iran fought a war with Iraq in the 1980s that lasted eight years, cost untold lives and suffering, and effectively ended in its defeat. Iranians, particularly the poor, experienced this war on an intimate level. They fought in the war, and lost husbands and sons in it. As in other countries, memories of a lost war don’t necessarily delegitimize the regime. Rather, they can generate hopes for a resurgent Iran, thus validating the sacrifices made in that war — something Ahmadinejad taps into. By arguing that Iran should not back down but become a major power, he speaks to the veterans and their families, who want something positive to emerge from all their sacrifices in the war.

Perhaps the greatest factor in Ahmadinejad’s favor is that Mousavi spoke for the better districts of Tehran — something akin to running a U.S. presidential election as a spokesman for Georgetown and the Lower East Side. Such a base will get you hammered, and Mousavi got hammered. Fraud or not, Ahmadinejad won and he won significantly. That he won is not the mystery; the mystery is why others thought he wouldn’t win.

For a time on Friday, it seemed that Mousavi might be able to call for an uprising in Tehran. But the moment passed when Ahmadinejad’s security forces on motorcycles intervened. And that leaves the West with its worst-case scenario: a democratically elected anti-liberal.

Western democracies assume that publics will elect liberals who will protect their rights. In reality, it’s a more complicated world. Hitler is the classic example of someone who came to power constitutionally, and then preceded to gut the constitution. Similarly, Ahmadinejad’s victory is a triumph of both democracy and repression.


Note that the author is not a fan of Ahmadinejad - he's comparing him to Hitler in the last line above.

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Shafique
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
I m asking u abt ur opinion, they are hundreds of articles about this monkey on the website! u chose to find this one out of some garbage and put it here!

U have no reason to doubt him! So I repeat my question, He says majority of Iranians support Ahmadinejad, so why do u support the movement of ipod minority against him?
melika969
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
I supported the opposition because they were the underdogs (I didn't expect them to win the election).

I voted against Maggie Thatcher in the UK, for example, and lost every time. That doesn't change the fact she did indeed win a majority in the elections (but in the UK first-past-the-post system - this does not mean the majority of voters..)

So, no I don't have any reason to dispute what the article says - that the majority of Iranians support Ahmadinejad. In fact it ties in with other news reports that say the same thing - there is vocal and strong and significant opposition to him, but he also enjoys support amongst Iranians.

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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
U are entitled to your opinion, but u make no sense! If this is how u analyze and support the parties it s very obvious why u are defending Palestine too! simply because they are underdog! :lol: :lol:

Ur sources of news have nothing valid to say, like the other poll u posted. As I said his followers are just "potato people", not everyone who lives in rural area!

But as u always say, That s just you! :mrgreen:
melika969
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
You're quite right - the main reason I support the Palestinian cause is that they are an oppressed underclass - the same reason I supported the Kurds under Saddam, East Timoran freedom fighters etc etc.

However, I'm not sure what you are getting upset about - why is it strange for me to quote and believe an analysis that says the majority of Iranians support the president?

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Shafique
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
Ahhh stop it already!

Because it s not TRUE! and you know it! but u tryin to fool others with the pathetic articles and polls!

So Palestinians are not right, but u are defending them because they are weak!?? :lol: that says alot!
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
I never said the Palestinians weren't right - I wouldn't automatically support every underdog (eg Loons, or the KKK) - but will certainly support those who are underdogs, oppressed and right.

But, back to Iran - again I ask you why is it strange to quote the analysis above and believe it? It states that the opposition believes it was cheated out of an election, but he argues why this doesn't make sense and gives an explanation.

He's saying that the opposition lost the election.

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Shafique
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
So do u think the opposition is right that s why u suport them?

If so, how could majority of Iranians support ahmadinejad?

p.s. It's not strange that u qouted that article! it s very typical! :lol:
melika969
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
Yes, the side I supported lost the election because the majority of Iranians supported the President.

I'm English - losing comes naturally to me. ;)

But seriously Mel - you're fixating on my beliefs, but I've posted a reasoned article which analyses the election result. It argues that Ahmadinejad is President fair and square, and acknowledges that the opposition doesn't want to accept this fact. This is not my analysis - I just quoted the article.

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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
we ll get to the article later, now I m just confronting u with ur lies!

U sayin u are defending the opposition, because they are RIGHT and WEAK!

If they are RIGHT, so majority of Iranians can not support Ahmadinejad, because if they do then they would vote for him and he has no need to cheat! In that case the opposition would be wrong, so u should not defend them!

So??
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
I said I supported the opposition parties and they turned out to be the minority in the Iranian elections. When did I lie about this?

I also supported Gore to win in 2000 (and Kerry in 2004) - but they both lost.

I don't see the connection between who I support and assuming that they should then (automatically) be the majority.

Where we seem to disagree is whether the article is correct to say that the majority of Iranians support Ahmadinejad as the election showed, or whether the claims of cheating are correct. As I said, I have no reason to doubt the analysis.

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Shafique
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
ok ok, it seems like u like to pretend u dont get my question!

You said u would support minorities as long as they are right, like palestinians, right?
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
Yes, I will support minorities - I did support the Government opposition, and I am always in favour of people's rights to protest.

This does not change the analysis that the majority of Iranians support the President.

Are you arguing that everyone in opposition believes that they are in the majority? If the reality is different (as the elections showed) then it doesn't mean that the 'belief' is correct and should be shared by all who supported the opposition?

(I've stated before that there are a number of issues which I disagree with Ahmadinejad on - but I've also been clear to point out where I see he's been unfairly demonised as well.)

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Shafique
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
lloooollllll

now u are changing ur words! u said u would support minorities as long as they are right. now u are saying u support the minorities in favor of people's right to protest!

If we believed we are in minority, why should we protest??? If we believed our votes were less than Ahmadinejad supporters, why we should even start the opposition?

There are many many arguements supporting our beleifs, which I m telling u the simple ones:
- They were 10 million people who were not participated in elections after the revolution, in last 30 years. Becasue they totally were disagree with the islamic government, The estimation says 10 million of election participants were this people, because they could not stand the stupidity of the monkey anymore. So they broke their principles and voted! This 10 million were called "First time voters", which definitely would not vote for Ahmadinejad! Where is that 10 million vote?

- Mr.Karroubi another candidate's votes were 300,000. Even if nobody voted for him but just his party people, it would be more than 500,000. Besides he is from one ethnicity in Iran (lor people) they are supporting each other so much, and it is not sensible that tehy would vote for anyone else, this is a cultural issue. Where are those votes?

- If u look at the statistcs of votes in different cities, they stupidly follow a linear pattern, which has been analysed by scientists, and it is fake!
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
Mel - please re-read what I wrote. I said 'and I always support the right of protest'. The key word is 'and' - so I'm not sure what you think I am changing my mind on.

As I said, the article acknowledges your beliefs and then lays out arguments why Ahmadinejad actually won the election. The guy doesn't like the President (he compares him to Hitler), and he acknowledges that the opposition does not accept that they are in a minority.

But you have hit the nail on the head:
"There are many arguments supporting our beliefs"

-and the article gives the opposing arguments supporting the election results.

And, given that the article is not written by the Iranian government, or Hizbollah, or Hamas or some other Muslim organisation, I have no reason to not consider and believe what is presented.

He lists the areas and issues where the President enjoys support, and this analysis ties in with other news reports on Iran that I've read.

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Shafique
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
Please dont tell me u believe this person has wrote this from his heart and there was no external support form Iran govt, hizbollah etc etc there.

I gave u the reasons why we believe he did not win the election! Did u read them?

U can consider whatever u want, u just cant force it to others, and please tell me what other news u got from Iran cupporting this. As I said they are thousands of reports and analysis abt Iran and its president. It's just ur choice to pick and believe which of them!
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
Yes, I read and understood your explanations. I have no doubt that there were voting irregularities, but I do have doubts that the overall election results is invalid. This is just based on what I've read - reading both sides of the argument.

I gave the link to the article - and you are free to show that this guy is a pro-Ahmadinejad person (which would be weird, given he compares him to Hitler).

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Shafique
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
ok, good.

I ll give u more resources to read, but unfortunately they are all in Farsi, I sould find them in English.
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
Sure thing - but also read what the opposing view is and comment on those too.

Wikipedia has a good coverage of articles on the election fraud, crackdown on the protests etc - and I haven't changed my view, I still am in favour of the demonstrators - even though I may not share all their beliefs.

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Shafique
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 16, 2010
ok!
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 17, 2010
Melika debating with Shafique is very akin to this -- Once there was a mathematics professor who had this steadfast belief in averages. He argued averages were enough and no other evidence was necessary, to augment an argument. Anyways one fine day he died. He drowned infact. And the lake he drowned in had an average depth of 2 inches!
Shafique is like that. He'll quote a million and two articles inherently from a country where there is no freedom of speech. He'd much rather choose to believe propaganda as opposed to facts. Or maybe he'd much rather choose to spread propaganda as opposed to facts. Get the point Mel? :wink: :wink:
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Re: Everything You Think You Know About Iran Is Wrong!!?? Sep 17, 2010
I doubt it very much :lol:
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