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Formed under the guidance of United States and Israeli intelligence officers in 1957, SAVAK developed into an effective secret agency. Bakhtiar was appointed its first director, only to be dismissed in 1961, allegedly for organizing a coup; he was assassinated in 1970 under mysterious circumstances, probably on the shah's direct order. His successor, General Hosain Pakravan, was dismissed in 1966, allegedly for having failed to crush the clerical opposition in the early 1960s. The shah turned to his childhood friend and classmate, General Nematollah Nassiri, to rebuild SAVAK and properly "serve" the monarch. Mansur Rafizadeh, the SAVAK director in the United States throughout the 1970s, claimed that General Nassiri's telephone was tapped by SAVAK agents reporting directly to the shah, an example of the level of mistrust pervading the government on the eve of the Revolution.

SAVAK increasingly to symbolized the Shah's rule from 1963-79, a period of corruption in the royal family, one-party rule, the torture and execution of thousands of political prisoners, suppression of dissent, and alienation of the religious masses. The United States reinforced its position as the Shah's protector and supporter, sowing the seeds of the anti-Americanism that later manifested itself in the revolution against the monarchy.

Flying Dutchman wrote:My wife lived and grew up in Iran during Reza Pahlavi. She escaped during the revolution, and is still happy every day for it. Sadly, she will be killed when she wants to go down to memory lane in her beloved Tehran.

Tom Jones wrote:He said, yes, the Shah was an absolute dictator, and his SAVAK was brutal and they did torture whoever was opposing the Shah, but the country was generally prospering, and the Iranian people lived a much happier life under his rule.

shafique wrote:I totally agree with your last sentence FD - that is why I highlighted the issues with foreign interference in Iranian affairs and the fact that the Shah was overthrown by a popular revolution.

shafique wrote:Those who were on the gravy train before the revolution are the ones who are complaining the loudest.

shafique wrote:I think that the fact that Israel and the US were associated with SAVAK has contributed to the anti-US and anti-Israel rhetoric

shafique wrote:Israel also supported the Apartheid regime - as you know)

shafique wrote:and still (in hushed terms) they do point out that law and order was better.

shafique wrote:As for the argument that a little bit of torture is ok as long as we're not tortured - I guess that is an opinion that we should get from those threatened with - or at risk of - torture.

shafique wrote:So, a little bit of torture is ok - hmm.

shafique wrote:I'm just amused that the argument is that the Shah was a bad man, but Ahmadinejad/the Mullahs are worse.

Real Life: Ten very surprising things about Iran
By Angus McDowall

Most TV news reports about Iran depict religious revolutionaries who promote militancy abroad and suppress human rights at home. But this is only part of the story:

1 Art-house Iranian films by such directors as Abbas Kiarostami and Mohsen Makhmalbaf wow foreign audiences. But the domestic film industry also churns out hundreds of more popular pictures. Last year's big hit The Lizard, drew the clerics' wrath for depicting a convict escaping prison disguised as a mullah. This year's hit was Girls' Dormitory, about a psychotic killer terrorising students.

2 In the form of Shia Islam practised in Iran, Muslims are allowed to enter into temporary marriages with each other, sometimes lasting only a few hours. Critics say this in effect legalises prostitution, and women who enter into these sigheh contracts are often ostracised. But the practice is defended as a legal loophole to provide inheritance rights for children who would otherwise be born out of wedlock. Sigheh websites have been set up to offer advice to prospective brides and grooms.

3 More than 3,600 Iranians have been killed in the past 25 years fighting heroin smugglers, whose main trade route to the West passes through the Islamic republic. Iran itself has a major drug problem, with more than two million addicts. The government has permitted radical measures to tackle the problem, including methadone programmes and syringe hand-outs to prevent the spread of disease.

4 Transsexuals are permitted to have sex-change operations in Iran by the decree of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini himself. The founder of the Islamic republic passed a fatwa allowing one transsexual woman to have the operation because sexual ambiguity made it impossible for her to carry out her religious duties properly. Iran now has dozens of people who have had a sex change.

5 According to the UNHCR, Iran hosts more than one million foreign refugees - more than any other country on earth. Most of these are Afghans and Iraqi Kurds, who fled their countries during the 1980s and '90s. Iran has in the past spent millions providing them with social security but in return it has acquired a huge workforce prepared to do manual labour for rock-bottom wages.

6 While official dress codes are very strict, many young Iranians delight in pushing back the boundaries of what is acceptable. Teenage girls in Tehran wear the most vestigial of see-through headscarves and tight overcoats that barely cover the bottom. This season gypsy-style scarves are in, featuring traditional Turkmen floral designs. Cosmetic surgery is all the rage, with girls proudly displaying a plaster to show their nose has recently been "fixed".

7 Skiing is a major pastime in mountainous parts of Iran, with pistes that rival those in Alpine resorts. Every winter young Iranians flock to the main slopes near Tehran, where social mores are less tightly enforced. Iran also has cricket, baseball and women's rugby teams, but football remains the most popular sport.

8 Iran has one of the only condom factories in the Middle East, and actively encourages contraception as a means of family planning. Sex education for married couples and major advertising campaigns helped Iran to slow its booming population growth.

9 Satellite television is banned in Iran, but receiver dishes sit in plain view on top of many houses. The most popular channels are run by Iranians based in Los Angeles, who broadcast Iranian pop music and a steady stream of anti-regime propaganda - though many Iranians also scoff at the radical tone taken by the stations.

10 Iran is one of the world's biggest producers of luxury foods. The country has rights to fish more sturgeon - the source of caviar - than any other Caspian Sea nation because of its extensive restocking programmes. It is also the world's biggest producer of pistachios, as well as saffron.

FREEDOM OF SPEECH

Many Iranians remember the Shah's secret police, Savak.

"Under the Shah we could not even think about criticizing the system publicly, because of the Savak," said Iraj Nemati, 60, owner of a carpet shop.

"But wherever you go now, people are criticizing the system, the government's economic policies and so on," he said. "Today Iranians enjoy much more freedom of expression than 30 years ago.

"Iranians turned against the Shah because there was no freedom in the country," he said.

Rights groups and Western diplomats say the Islamic Republic has escalated a crackdown on dissenting voices since Ahmadinejad came to power, possibly in response to Western pressure on Tehran over its disputed nuclear work. Iran denies the claim.

shafique wrote:As I said, I'm surprised that anyone excuses/condones the torture of political opponents of a dictator.

Flying Dutchman wrote:Seriously, I haven't met any Iranian prefering the mullahs over the shah. Torture in UAE prisons exists, still the government is very popular amongst its population.

melika969 wrote:SAVAK,was a domestic security organization! every country has an organization for this purpose. Other jibberish abt tortures makes no sense!

melika969 wrote:Risk of tortue is much more now! There is no Savak, but there is basij, revolutionary guard, police, etc etc It can be because of hijab, or being a children activist, apart from the political opponents!

1 Art-house Iranian films by such directors as Abbas Kiarostami and Mohsen Makhmalbaf wow foreign audiences. But the domestic film industry also churns out hundreds of more popular pictures. Last year's big hit The Lizard, drew the clerics' wrath for depicting a convict escaping prison disguised as a mullah. This year's hit was Girls' Dormitory, about a psychotic killer terrorising students.

2 In the form of Shia Islam practised in Iran, Muslims are allowed to enter into temporary marriages with each other, sometimes lasting only a few hours. Critics say this in effect legalises prostitution, and women who enter into these sigheh contracts are often ostracised. But the practice is defended as a legal loophole to provide inheritance rights for children who would otherwise be born out of wedlock. Sigheh websites have been set up to offer advice to prospective brides and grooms.

6 While official dress codes are very strict, many young Iranians delight in pushing back the boundaries of what is acceptable. Teenage girls in Tehran wear the most vestigial of see-through headscarves and tight overcoats that barely cover the bottom. This season gypsy-style scarves are in, featuring traditional Turkmen floral designs. Cosmetic surgery is all the rage, with girls proudly displaying a plaster to show their nose has recently been "fixed".

9 Satellite television is banned in Iran, but receiver dishes sit in plain view on top of many houses. The most popular channels are run by Iranians based in Los Angeles, who broadcast Iranian pop music and a steady stream of anti-regime propaganda - though many Iranians also scoff at the radical tone taken by the stations.

10 Iran is one of the world's biggest producers of luxury foods. The country has rights to fish more sturgeon - the source of caviar - than any other Caspian Sea nation because of its extensive restocking programmes. It is also the world's biggest producer of pistachios, as well as saffron.

shafique wrote:

Flying Dutchman wrote:Seriously, I haven't met any Iranian prefering the mullahs over the shah. Torture in UAE prisons exists, still the government is very popular amongst its population.

melika969 wrote:SAVAK,was a domestic security organization! every country has an organization for this purpose. Other jibberish abt tortures makes no sense!

and

melika969 wrote:Risk of tortue is much more now! There is no Savak, but there is basij, revolutionary guard, police, etc etc It can be because of hijab, or being a children activist, apart from the political opponents!

shafique wrote:And then there is this article from last year (before the elections):
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE55A44X20090611

It does say that the economic and travel restrictions are now much worse, as Islamic dress, but it ends with:

FREEDOM OF SPEECH

Many Iranians remember the Shah's secret police, Savak.

"Under the Shah we could not even think about criticizing the system publicly, because of the Savak," said Iraj Nemati, 60, owner of a carpet shop.

"But wherever you go now, people are criticizing the system, the government's economic policies and so on," he said. "Today Iranians enjoy much more freedom of expression than 30 years ago.

"Iranians turned against the Shah because there was no freedom in the country," he said.

Rights groups and Western diplomats say the Islamic Republic has escalated a crackdown on dissenting voices since Ahmadinejad came to power, possibly in response to Western pressure on Tehran over its disputed nuclear work. Iran denies the claim.

Undoubtedly, the views against the government have hardened since the elections.. but still, the contrast with Savak is there.

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman wrote:Seriously, I haven't met any Iranian prefering the mullahs over the shah. Torture in UAE prisons exists, still the government is very popular amongst its population.

Flying Dutchman wrote:Last poll I read about Iraq, was that by far Iraqi's prefer the current situation over Saddam. Comparing a small white minority in SA being nostalgic about the apartheid rule is so far away from the situation in Iran it actually doesn't need any comment.

Seriously, I haven't met any Iranian prefering the mullahs over the shah. Torture in UAE prisons exists, still the government is very popular amongst its population. I pretty much think outsiders shouldnt tell local populations what to think and want.

[in 1979]
The first group of Iran experts argued that the Shah of Iran would certainly survive, that the unrest was simply a cyclical event readily manageable..
..
The second group of Iran experts regarded the shah as a repressive brute, and saw the revolution as aimed at liberalizing the country. Their sources were the professionals and academics who supported the uprising — Iranians who knew what former Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ruholla Khomeini believed, but didn’t think he had much popular support.
..
Americans and Europeans have been misreading Iran for 30 years. Even after the shah fell, the myth has survived that a mass movement of people exists demanding liberalization — a movement that if encouraged by the West eventually would form a majority and rule the country. We call this outlook “iPod liberalism,” the idea that anyone who listens to rock ‘n’ roll on an iPod, writes blogs and knows what it means to Twitter must be an enthusiastic supporter of Western liberalism. Even more significantly, this outlook fails to recognize that iPod owners represent a small minority in Iran — a country that is poor, pious and content on the whole with the revolution forged 30 years ago.
...
And these people give Westerners a wildly distorted view of Iran. They can create the impression that a fantastic liberalization is at hand — but not when you realize that iPod-owning Anglophones are not exactly the majority in Iran.
...
Some still charge that Ahmadinejad cheated. That is certainly a possibility, but it is difficult to see how he could have stolen the election by such a large margin. Doing so would have required the involvement of an incredible number of people, and would have risked creating numbers that quite plainly did not jibe with sentiment in each precinct. Widespread fraud would mean that Ahmadinejad manufactured numbers in Tehran without any regard for the vote. But he has many powerful enemies who would quickly have spotted this and would have called him on it. Mousavi still insists he was robbed, and we must remain open to the possibility that he was, although it is hard to see the mechanics of this.

Ahmadinejad’s Popularity

It also misses a crucial point: Ahmadinejad enjoys widespread popularity. He doesn’t speak to the issues that matter to the urban professionals, namely, the economy and liberalization. But Ahmadinejad speaks to three fundamental issues that accord with the rest of the country.
...

It also misses a crucial point: Ahmadinejad enjoys widespread popularity. He doesn’t speak to the issues that matter to the urban professionals, namely, the economy and liberalization. But Ahmadinejad speaks to three fundamental issues that accord with the rest of the country.

shafique wrote:And, interestingly:

Any guesses who came out top in a poll for 'Iranian of the Century' carried out in 2000?

http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2000/Jan ... adegh.html