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I say this lunatic pastor in Florida, who plans to burn the Quran on Saturday, is just a publicity seeker, and he will not actually go ahead and do it. He will say, on Sat morning, "there will be no Quran burning today. God just told me not to do it."

I bet (vote) that he will not burn the Quran on Saturday. I'm sure he does not want to live the rest of his life in constant fear of getting killed (any moment) by the Muslims.

What do you think?

Will he or will he not?????

With any luck he will be arrested and sent to some detention camp in Cuba.

Bethsmum wrote:With any luck he will be arrested and sent to some detention camp in Cuba.

Under the US constitution, he will not be violating any laws by burning the Quran (part of the freedom of expression as guaranteed under the First Amendment). So he will not be arrested for that. He might be arrested, however, for starting a bonfire out in the open without a permit from the city’s fire department (he requested a permit but it was declined!).

So far, just about every responsible American statesman and woman and celebrity, along with their Uncles and Aunties, have condemned Pastor Terry Jones’ proposal, so I believe that if the combined forces of the local plod, State Police, Highway Patrol, FBI, CIA, Washington’s special advisors, US Marshals, Texas Rangers, National Guard, Coast Guard, Ness, Chuck, Sylvester, Segal, Batman and Obama, cannot conspire to find the wherewithal to permanently silence this fool and his followers, Well …

They should live to expect the worldwide backlash already spoken of and experienced in the past. It will further compromise the security of American and other NATO troops in Afghanistan and Iraq and inspire retaliatory attacks against U.S. facilities, domestic and overseas.

Will he? Yes if left unchecked, I hope the Authorities have the common sense to stop him.

I bet he'll do it.

This is a good example of how the minority can incite hate - he has a "church" membership of 50!!!

He, like those who want to build a mosque/center near the 9/11 site, don't stop to think about the repercussions of their actions/words. Insensitive, thoughtless fools. Now the Iman who wants the mosque/center built is claiming that NOT to allow it to be built, or building it somewhere else, puts America in more danger, less safe, as it will fuel more hate. I guess he doesn't get how the families who lost loved ones and the presence of a mosque/center impacts those families and Americans in general, and that to proceed would be hurtful and insensitive. He also said that when he considered building the mosque/center would cause such controversy he would not have gone through with it. Well, back out and build it somewhere else!!!! That would be the decent thing to do. People aren't saying don't build the mosque/center, just build it somewhere else.

Bora - I think that those behind Park 51 did indeed stop and think about the wisdom of building a cultural centre in an abandoned coat factory in a side street of Manhattan that no one else wanted to buy and develop. A center which will not advocate hate and be open to all and have a gym and a prayer area.. I mean all indications are that they weren't being provocative. 2 blocks away from there is a mosque that's been there since before WTC towers were built - no harm/objections have been raised.

I also think Pastor Jones knows exactly what he is doing (he is attention seeker - and was formerly in Germany where there the congregation sacked him for his views!)

As for Park 51, it didn't cause any fuss until some people decided to call it an Islamic supremacist mega-mosque and tell people it was on Ground Zero.

In reality, there is no 'Ground Zero Mosque'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Mux ... r_embedded

But the full reality doesn't hit you until you see exactly what is presented as a Mosque at Ground Zero, and what is actually around the area:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11070481

I too would have objected to a mega-mosque at Ground zero (or even overlooking ground zero). However this isn't even close.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Bora - I think that those behind Park 51 did indeed stop and think about the wisdom of building a cultural centre in an abandoned coat factory in a side street of Manhattan that no one else wanted to buy and develop. A center which will not advocate hate and be open to all and have a gym and a prayer area.. I mean all indications are that they weren't being provocative. 2 blocks away from there is a mosque that's been there since before WTC towers were built - no harm/objections have been raised.

I also think Pastor Jones knows exactly what he is doing (he is attention seeker - and was formerly in Germany where there the congregation sacked him for his views!)

As for Park 51, it didn't cause any fuss until some people decided to call it an Islamic supremacist mega-mosque and tell people it was on Ground Zero.

In reality, there is no 'Ground Zero Mosque'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Mux ... r_embedded

But the full reality doesn't hit you until you see exactly what is presented as a Mosque at Ground Zero, and what is actually around the area:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11070481

I too would have objected to a mega-mosque at Ground zero (or even overlooking ground zero). However this isn't even close.

Cheers,
Shafique

On the one hand I agree witih the views expressed in the videos, but on the other hand, I have to say that the location is wrong. If it was, say, 20 blocks away I don't think it would have even been newsworthy. One center is not going to change those who have been brainwashed to believe that Islam translates to terrorists. It is not as if there was a large Muslim community in that area. As for the churches that were noted in the clips, they were there long before 9/11, as was the small Islamic center established in 1970 (I believe that was the year mentioned).

No matter how they spin it or justify it, it's the wrong location. To say that the objections and not to build it will make America more unsafe is like planting seeds in evil minds. Build it, but just do it somewhere else. As I said, even the Imam acknowledges the issues brought about the construction of the center at that particular location. Hindsight is wonderful, but now that he sees that "possibly" poor judgment was used and the response brought on by it, there is still time to find another location.

When you speak of full reality, have you been to the site? I have. To this day, people who don't see the site on a daily basis become emotional. Those people who walk past it everyday have become desensitized to what took place. If they had to think about what happened every time they walked past it, at least twice a day, they would go crazy. It's like everything else, see/hear enough of something and eventually it doesn't register on an emotional level.

Anyway, I apologize for going off topic, so back on topic. This pastor and his followers should take the Jim Jones route.

So would you close down the mosque that is 4 blocks away from Ground zero, and has been there since the 70's?

But you at least have answered the question that I haven't seen answered anywhere else - how many blocks away would be ok to open a mosque (even though this centre isn't a mosque).

And yes, I have been to Ground Zero - I've stayed in Manhattan not too far from there (since 9/11).

But, you're right - a bit off topic - I share your sentiments about the good Pastor.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:So would you close down the mosque that is 4 blocks away from Ground zero, and has been there since the 70's?

Never said that. What I did say is that the mosque was established before 9/11, as were the churches. The mosque in the basement was opened probably based on the fact that many stores and vendors in that area were owned/worked by Muslims and someone rightfully saw the need for the mosque to accommodate those Muslims for prayer.

Fair enough.

Let's see whether the cultural centre project goes ahead and what real offence it does give.

As for the Pastor, we'll know in a couple of days..

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon wrote:So far, just about every responsible American statesman and woman and celebrity, along with their Uncles and Aunties, have condemned Pastor Terry Jones’ proposal, so I believe that if the combined forces of the local plod, State Police, Highway Patrol, FBI, CIA, Washington’s special advisors, US Marshals, Texas Rangers, National Guard, Coast Guard, Ness, Chuck, Sylvester, Segal, Batman and Obama, cannot conspire to find the wherewithal to permanently silence this fool and his followers, Well …

They should live to expect the worldwide backlash already spoken of and experienced in the past. It will further compromise the security of American and other NATO troops in Afghanistan and Iraq and inspire retaliatory attacks against U.S. facilities, domestic and overseas.

Will he? Yes if left unchecked, I hope the Authorities have the common sense to stop him.

Free speech is a popularity contest.

If celebrities and 'statesmen' say they don't like your speech, it shouldn't be allowed.

Good point.

Bora Bora wrote: I have to say that the location is wrong.

Why ? Or are you also buying into the sensitivities crap. Why should I or you take blame or considered guilty for anything that went down on 9/11 ? If people are sensitive about it, they are sensitive about it for the wrong reasons. By saying its the wrong location your saying yes, Islam IS to blame for the terrorist attacks of 9/11

desertdudeshj wrote:

Bora Bora wrote: I have to say that the location is wrong.

Why ? Or are you also buying into the sensitivities crap. Why should I or you take blame or considered guilty for anything that went down on 9/11 ? If people are sensitive about it, they are sensitive about it for the wrong reasons. By saying its the wrong location your saying yes, Islam IS to blame for the terrorist attacks of 9/11

Please don't put words in my mouth DD and tell me what I am "saying". Have you read the exchanges between Sharif and myself?

It's not about taking or putting blame on anyone, or a question of who is guilty or not. I'm looking at both sides of the coin DD. I'm curious, if you think that people are being sensitive for the wrong reasons, please tell me what you think they should be "sensitive" about (the "right" reasons)?

event horizon wrote:

Dillon wrote:So far, just about every responsible American statesman and woman and celebrity, along with their Uncles and Aunties ...

Free speech is a popularity contest.

If celebrities and 'statesmen' say they don't like your speech, it shouldn't be allowed.

Good point.

Well, I can understand your sarcasm regarding the content above.

Dillon wrote:Will he? Yes if left unchecked, I hope the Authorities have the common sense to stop him.

What I never understand is that a whole nation including its citizens can be hold responsible for the actions of one man. Thats just ridiculous.

Sad, but true!

Speech everyone agrees with doesn't need protecting.

That's why I find it amazing when people claim they support free speech, as long as they don't find it offensive.

Thats right, NOBODY has the RIGHT not to be offended.

A sick man and he wants to be famous at any price ,and by any way !!
he will do any thing for that >>> !
The best way to deal with him is ignored his action, completely ignored.

^FD - I'm glad your now speaking out against those objecting to Park 51 - because they are 'offended' by a 'mosque' being built.

That was what you meant, right?

(And yes, Pastor is a media hog, but one that eh can't quite bring himself to condemn - fascinating that).

Cheers,
Shafique

Touche mon ami

event horizon wrote:Speech everyone agrees with doesn't need protecting.

That's why I find it amazing when people claim they support free speech, as long as they don't find it offensive.

The freedoms we enjoy should be exercised wisely not foolishly. For example, it is totally stupid for a white man to stand at a street corner in Harlem, NY, holding a big sign that says, “I Hate Nigg*rs!”

We have the right to eat anything we want but we usually don’t. We to try to avoid foods that may bring harm to us or to others (as in the case of a pregnant woman!)

The Pastor knows damn well, in advance, that what he plans to do on Saturday will most likely cause innocent people to be harmed and/or killed, including his own fellow Americans.

Rights should be exercised sensibly and judiciously not irrationally and recklessly!!!

I think you also have to place blame on the press/television for giving this person his "moment". If the press and television had ignored him, who would have known about it?

He has gotten over 100 threats and he has 50 people in his church and he now has to carry a gun.

Bora Bora wrote:I think you also have to place blame on the press/television for giving this person his "moment". If the press and television had ignored him, who would have known about it?

He has gotten over 100 threats and he has 50 people in his church and he now has to carry a gun.

Over 200 international news organizations (not including the local and national news) have descended on Gainesville, Fl to cover this event. Many plan to carry it live on Saturday. All the hotels in the area have been fully booked for the 3 past weeks!!

Well, he is certainly getting the publicity he was hoping for!!!!

Tom Jones wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:I think you also have to place blame on the press/television for giving this person his "moment". If the press and television had ignored him, who would have known about it?

He has gotten over 100 threats and he has 50 people in his church and he now has to carry a gun.

Over 200 international news organizations (not including the local and national news) have descended on Gainesville, Fl to cover this event. Many plan to carry it live on Saturday. All the hotels in the area have been fully booked for the 3 past weeks!!

Well, he is certainly getting the publicity he was hoping for!!!!

Well news travels fast doesn't it. I'm talking about those that were there for the initial announcement. By giving him the press coverage, they gave him credibility. Sad that news like this can spread so far and so quickly and things that are considered "good press" - not "newsworthy" gets pushed to the back page.

GAINESVILLE, Fla. – The leader of a small Florida church that espouses anti-Islam philosophy says he is canceling plans to burn copies of the Quran on Sept. 11.

Pastor Terry Jones said Thursday that he decided to cancel his protest because the leader of a planned Islamic Center near ground zero has agreed to move its controversial location. The agreement couldn't be immediately confirmed.

Jones' plans to burn Islam's holiest text Saturday sparked an international outcry.

President Barack Obama, the top U.S. general in Afghanistan and several Christian leaders had urged Jones to reconsider his plans. They said his actions would endanger U.S. soldiers and provide a strong recruitment tool for Islamic extremists. Jones' protest also drew criticism from religious and political leaders from across the Muslim world.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

GAINESVILLE, Fla. (AP) — A Christian minister in Florida is canceling plans to burn Qurans on Sept. 11, heeding an international outcry that drew criticism from President Barack Obama and religious and political leaders across the Muslim world.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100909/ap_ ... an_burning

Remember that outcry from liberals when an 'artist' submerged a crucifix in a jar of urine and the 'art' piece went on to win a visual arts competition ?

Err, no......

So those kind of protests actually do help after all.

On a side note. I personally feel all the things as described in eh post above in the name of art are simply ing and have nothing to with art. Just more attention whores, who could not actually do any art and resorted to cheap sensationlism for their 15 mins of fame, Just like Rev Jones.

if he dares burn it, either in life or after life, he will recieve punishment(unless he will convert to a muslim and be a good one!!)

shafique wrote:^FD - I'm glad your now speaking out against those objecting to Park 51 - because they are 'offended' by a 'mosque' being built.

That was what you meant, right?

What made you think otherwise?

-- Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:59 am --

Tom Jones wrote:The freedoms we enjoy should be exercised wisely not foolishly. For example, it is totally stupid for a white man to stand at a street corner in Harlem, NY, holding a big sign that says, “I Hate Nigg*rs!”

We have the right to eat anything we want but we usually don’t. We to try to avoid foods that may bring harm to us or to others (as in the case of a pregnant woman!)

What we eat shouldn't be legislated though, same applies for stupidity.

Tom Jones wrote:The Pastor knows damn well, in advance, that what he plans to do on Saturday will most likely cause innocent people to be harmed and/or killed, including his own fellow Americans.

The whole incident is similar to Wilders' clip fitna. The Dutch government held him responsible for violent backlashes against Dutch intrests worldwide. Reminds me of this mother that blames her drinking problem on the crying of her baby.