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uaekid · Aug 31, 2010

This is amazing, they guy is scared that Islam is spreading in his country and its community and he intend to stop it so his culture won’t change !! well daa , doesn’t he know that it is spreading bcz of his culture believes of Islam and not being shoveled to their brains ? why fight your ppl or anyone thoughts and believes ? so in another way ,he is choosing for his community what religious they should follow ? this is really odd to a western, you can even get the feeling of question marks of the reporter of his extremism of his thoughts.

Here is the clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tAE0ZIb--I&feature=fvst

Flying Dutchman · Aug 31, 2010

Absolutely fascinating. OP holds a guy from a small rainy far away country to higher values than his own country (if s/he is not just another wannabe somewhere in the world) or him/herself for that matter.

shafique · Aug 31, 2010

^Smells a bit like a 'what aboutery' argument to me... nope, on closer inspection, it IS a 'what about the values in your country' argument! Precious.

dubai-politics-talk/what-about-ery-t42765.html#p343727
This is what is called "what about-ery." What about this other country, or that one. I think it's the least attractive form of defense. To say "Well, yes, maybe I did do this and this, but over there, they did worse." Well, this creates a playground defense when you are resisting a punishment from the teacher, but I don't think it has any real moral weight to it. Criticisms have to be addressed in their own terms, .. :mrgreen:

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman · Aug 31, 2010

A proposal in regard to the laws that regulate the marriage of Emirati men to foreign women has been prepared, although it has not yet been approved. The law will include obtaining a special permission to marry from the Ministry of Interiors. Permission will only be granted if the marriage meets criteria such as:
1. The wife must be Arab and Muslim.
2. The husband must not be married to any other woman at the time.
3. The age difference should not exceed 25 years.
4. The husband must be financially capable of supporting the woman.
5. The couple must be free of any hereditary or sexually transmitted diseases.
6. The wife must not be banned from entering the country for any reason

uaekid wrote:hill, call me what you want ! I would say "kill the jew's" and wear its t-shirt. power to the NAZI's.

uaekid wrote:
gafoorgk wrote:
naruto wrote:i loved Hitler for one thing...

killing those pigs

it's very pity that u can only think of that.

why gafoogk ? I agree with him. Hitler said I could've killed all of them but I left a small number for the world to know why I did what I did to them..

the world could've been better without them I would say.. no Hammas no hezballah no war no religious conflicts no threats to the Arab world that made them speed up any major missiles programs, it would've been a more flowery world

I would say kill the pigs too

chevaliers-de-sion · Aug 31, 2010

Wilders is totally right. If all european politicians were as honest.
Most of them just pander to the moonbats

shafique · Aug 31, 2010

FD - I get that uaekid has acted like Geert in the quotes you give.

I just want to clarify that you're not in anyway defending Geert's racism and Islamophobia by using a 'what about-ery' argument? Are you just saying that Geert is as bad as uaekid (or vice versa) or are you saying that uaekid shouldn't criticise Geert's views?
(And btw - if you could take an extra second and post the references/links to what you post, I wouldn't have to keep asking you for the links!? Thanks)

Chev: short and sweet, keep up the good work. You're exhibit A when anyone denies Islamophobia exists or wants to discuss the failings of the UK education system.

Cheers,
Shafique

chevaliers-de-sion · Aug 31, 2010

uaekid wrote:hill, call me what you want ! I would say "kill the jew's" and wear its t-shirt. power to the NAZI's.

uaekid wrote:
gafoorgk wrote:
naruto wrote:i loved Hitler for one thing...

killing those pigs

it's very pity that u can only think of that.

You dumb a ss rag head ...........after Hitler had finished with the chosen ones. Who do you think were to be the next group on the sub human list?

shafique · Aug 31, 2010

Well, I found the first quote by kid - it was in a thread about a guy wearing a swastica t-shirt. I didn't see FD contribute to that thread, so I can only assume he's up to his old tricks again of trying to search for info to discredit people - and even then resorting to selective quotes (out of context).

FD if you are honest, link to the quote and quote it in full and show what the context was.
I'll help you out, the thread is here:
dubai-chat/nazi-dubai-t33598.html

(And I'm beginning to think that you deliberately don't give links when you know you are being selective and want to engage in a bit of 'what aboutery' instead of discussing the issue- in this case your countryman's views. It would have been more honest to either say you disagree with Geert, or to defend his views.)

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Aug 31, 2010

The second quote is, however, inexcusable and is from here and the context is clear an unambiguous:
dubai-politics-talk/zionist-jews-godfathers-terrorism-t32871.html

But I still don't get what the argument is about in relation to Geert - is it that kid is as bad as Geert or vice versa? or is it something else?

Cheers,
Shafique

Red Chief · Aug 31, 2010

I agree with the most what this guy said and the kid should be the last one who can critisize him. As far as I know UAE granted citizenship only to foreign's wives of lokals after 12 years in marriage.

I don't know what the problem with the protection of self-identity and protestant values.

The ban of emmigration (obvious or hidden) from the certain countries is common practice of many countries in the past and now. Take discriminatory policy in lottery of green cards now or dependance of emmigration on internal ethnic structure in 20s-30s in US.

uaekid · Aug 31, 2010

and I always stand for it.

my problem is not this guy religious behavior more than his behavior toward his own people and community and him wanting to interfere to what HE think is a better religion for them, I hope I made my self clear.his stupidity led him to believe that if he kicks the Muslim out of the country then his Muslims will convert to other ones ? talk about insecure personality and a weak soul to be threatens by a religion.

one of what the west hold for Muslim extremest and Iran is forcing ppl to do what the government think suits and fit and this guy is doing a similar thing and what amazes me is that it is in EU . pole who follow such leaders are people who can't think of their own and are letting others decides for them. just the minute I want to believe in some of what the west stands for when they let and vote for such a politicians .

shafique · Aug 31, 2010

I smiled when I listened to him.

'..Judaism is a better religion than the retarded ..Islam'

'..Islam is more an ideology than a religion.. it is not to be compared with Christianity..'

'..I don't intend to insult Muslims.'

'..Netherlands is a country based on the values of Christianity, Judaism and Humanism'.

(And he admits he hasn't actually read the whole Quran).

At 5min he's cornered about a verse talking about hell (what happens after death) which he mis-represented. Sigh.

:mrgreen:

But early on, he does say that the majority of Muslims in Netherlands are law abiding. At least he's not saying 70% of them are criminals

Cheers,
Shafique

uaekid · Aug 31, 2010

Red Chief wrote:I agree with the most what this guy said and the kid should be the last one who can critisize him. As far as I know UAE granted citizenship only to foreign's wives of lokals after 12 years in marriage.

I don't know what the problem with the protection of self-identity and protestant values.

The ban of emmigration (obvious or hidden) from the certain countries is common practice of many countries in the past and now. Take discriminatory policy in lottery of green cards now or dependance of emmigration on internal ethnic structure in 20s-30s in US.

I'm pointing to his personal beleives and not comparing countries here red chief, thank god his mentality is yet to be aproved of or not. and as you called it SELF-IDENTITY and Values , it is mine not his . and a country identity has nothing to do with releigions. laws and regulations yes but not bersonal beleives . his simply slaving ppl thoughts.

shafique · Aug 31, 2010

Given that Geert claims Judaism's values for the Dutch (along with Christianity and Humanism) but says Islam is an ideology, doesn't that mean he has to explain in what ways Judaism is less prescriptive about social and religious matters than Islam?

I mean, Orthodox Jews have their own laws, courts etc - all based on religous laws. The dietary laws are stricter than Islam, for example - and the distinction between Jew and Gentile is enshrined in law. So, would the supporters of Geert care to explain in what way(s) Judaism is not an ideology but Islam is?

Seriously - what is there in Islamic shariah that is alien to Holland and is missing from the Bible/Torah/Judaism as practiced by the most religious Jews?

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman · Aug 31, 2010

Hasan S. Karmi seems ot be a Wilders fan:

Islam is different from both, and did not have a role in the building of Western culture which is basically religious, either Christian, Jewish or Jewish-Christian, with the Bible as the source of inspiration.

Islam is also different because when it prescribes those principles, it assumes the character of a social philosophy rather than a religion.

shafique · Aug 31, 2010

Perhaps Karmi was, but he's dead now and so we can't ask him. I somehow doubt that there are many points that Geert would agree with Karmi on!

But seriously, do you agree that Judaism is a founding principle of the Netherlands - and can you explain why Orthodox Judaic law is ok for Netherlands and doesn't make it an ideology, but the less strict Islamic laws means it isn't a religion?

Cheers
Shafique

Berrin · Aug 31, 2010

-Islam is more an ideology than a religion.. it is not to be compared with Christianity..'

Seriously - what is there in Islamic shariah that is alien to Holland and is missing from the Bible/Torah/Judaism as practiced by the most religious Jews?

A few months ago I heard a scholar who sad that religious revelations before Judaism and Christianity was more in a primitive state more like going through primary school education, with Judaism and Christianity reached to high school education state, and it was complete with Islam equivalent of university education.(most of the ideologies develop following advanced/university education)

What he meant was that for a religion to develop to be completed as a way of life (ideology), revelations had to continue and last until society faced all the basic, foundational problems both economically and socially, sot hat there were new questions to be risen and solution to be found for implementation within the law of religion.. In this context you can say that Quran is advanced and reached to that complexity to offer remedies to all problems of all times, in general principles..
If you followed it, it is more like following ideology (well at least that’s the way how secularists would describe it)
I am sure though Geert admires a lot of the quran but just his self-centered ago finds ground on his policies, mainly towards quranic principles that has outcome on life style..
Like modest dressing, drinking, adultery etc. which is contrary to the culture we have adopted there as a way of life..

Red Chief · Aug 31, 2010

Convert? Kid, don't pretend more stupid than you are in reality. A new mongol-tatar hordes from Central Asia and Caucasia of illegal immigrants flooded Moscow, probably another kind Muslims do the same in AMS.

They are not going to be Russians and Dutches and respect value of the host countries. They behave like they will never do in their motherland.

desertdudeshj · Aug 31, 2010

Man whatever you say, but that dudes gotta do something about that hair of his ! or atleast be charged with crimes against cruelty to human hair !

Red Chief · Aug 31, 2010

Dude, you are a good student. Prof. Shafique will be satisfied... :wink:

shafique · Aug 31, 2010

Berrin · Aug 31, 2010

Welcome back Chief, commiserations on forest fires. Didn't reach you, dit it?

They are not going to be Russians and Dutches and respect value of the host countries. They behave like they will never do in their motherland.

I feel, that video is a set-up, a propaganda tool shot against immigration..
Are those immigrants from within russian borders or from ex russian satellites?..

desertdudeshj · Aug 31, 2010

Red Chief wrote:Dude, you are a good student. Prof. Shafique will be satisfied...

Huh ! student WTF.....bro I ride alone, master of my own destiny

P.S : Thanks for posting that horrid accordion music and a video in russky that almost no one here understands. Da :arrow:

Red Chief · Aug 31, 2010

Berrin wrote:Welcome back Chief, commiserations on forest fires. Didn't reach you, dit it?

They are not going to be Russians and Dutches and respect value of the host countries. They behave like they will never do in their motherland.

I feel, that video is a set-up, a propaganda tool shot against immigration..
Are those immigrants from within russian borders or from ex russian satellites?..

It's an official clip of a political party "Rodina" (Motherland) for the election to parliament in 2004. The immigrants are from the former Soviet republic Armenia. They are Christian but it was made to avoid ban for Religious intolerance.

As for fire, thanks God, it didn't reach any of my houses but smog from burning of turf was horrific in Moscow. Many peope weared respirators. Anyway thank you for asking.

Flying Dutchman · Sep 03, 2010

Some will go all the way to try to prove Wilders point. Sjeik Feiz Muhammad claims Wilders head should be chopped off for insulting Islam.

Red Chief · Sep 06, 2010

I agree with Mr. Wilders that Islam is more than religion but totalitarian world-view . Mr. Shafique for instance invented new Politics and Science, which are very far from initial Greek meanings, to prove consistency Islam with those conceptions.

event horizon · Sep 06, 2010

Ask any Muslim and they'll agree with Wilders.

Islam is more than a religion, it's a deen - 'a way of life'.

shafique · Sep 06, 2010

RC - I'm flattered that you think I invented the English meanings of 'Politics' and 'Science' - but unfortunately my other names aren't 'Oxford English Dictionary'

As for eh - he is funny, isn't he. A religion is indeed a way of life - in the same way football is a sport (duh?)- by any definition religion is a set of rules by which people choose to live their lives.

OED 1971 states:

Action or conduct indicating a belief in, reverence for, and desire to please a divine ruling power; the exercise or practice of rites or observances implying this.

Key words here, 'action' 'conduct' 'exercise or practice' - so it is a way of life indeed.

Therefore the question to eh becomes, what does he think religion is if it is less than how one lives one's life?

Cheers,
Shafique

Red Chief · Sep 06, 2010

The most honorable Shafique, with all respect you did not invent the English meanings of those concepts but launched own ones to match you religion.

shafique · Sep 06, 2010

I'm sure I didn't, but then again perhaps that is what you read - but it certainly wasn't my intention.

If I remember correctly, I quoted articles from the US which stated that certain acts were politically moivated rather than religious - and said I agreed with the facts, definitions and conclusions laid out. I don't recall changing the meaning of 'political' or 'religious' from the dictionary definitions.

But, then again, I'm flattered that you think I did!

Anyway, let's not relive old discussions - I'm more interested in eh's definition of religion and why he thinks relgion is not a description of rules for living one's life (i.e. a way of life).

Cheers,
Shafique

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