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I thought I'd start a thread examining what the the Koran says about non-believers.

On another thread, we learned that the Koran describes non-believers in mostly negative ways but there has been some controversy by Muslim apologists over whether the Koran actually has more hateful passages towards non-Muslims than 'loving' or kind passages towards the Kuffar.

So, I thought I would examine the counter claims made on this thread.

Basically, to determine if the Koran contains more negative verses regarding non-believers than it does positive, I will post a negative verse from the Koran and an apologist will match it with a positive passage.

I'll start with one negative verse and see if the Koran has at least one positive passage to say about non-believers:

5:051 O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. God guides not the people of the evildoers.

As for criteria, I would say a passage qualifies if it generalizes non-Muslims - for example, the 'clear' Koran will simply level a charge against Christians, Jews or Pagans without specifying if they were a group of Christians, Jews or Pagans or all Christians, Jews and Pagans.

Obviously, such passages are blanket generalizations and should be condemned as incitement if the message is negative.

Another qualification is if the passage in question expresses disapproval of an individual in some way, even partly, because the individual is a non-believer.

A Muslim apologist seemed to have had an issue over including passages that talk of sending non-believers to hell for torture as being intolerant. I would personally include passages that talk of sending non-believers to hell because they commit shirk or do not take Muhammad as a prophet as being intolerant and would put them in the same category as passages that spread slander, intolerance, hatred of non-Muslims or instruct Muslims to harm non-Muslims because of their status as being non-Muslims.

Nice try young loon.

However, I'm going to wait until you admit that you have no evidence for previous post about 61% of the Quran containing verses which speak ill of 'disbelievers'.

Once you've either produced the evidence of these 3800 verses or you admit that the loon headline is just blowing smoke, then I'll gladly examine what the Quran says about those who commit sins (for a sin is not obeying God's laws) or who choose to not accept God's message - whether these people will be rewarded by God and what the consquences of these actions are by God.

You will have to defend your loon views by showing verses in context and describing what the rewards promised to those who don't commit sins and follow God's teachings are - which invariably are juxtaposed with what will happen to those souls who go against God's teachings. You'll have to explain why you think God explaining what happens to souls who don't choose the path of peace will be.

I'll easily explain that God's love for humanity is manifested in explaining what will happen to your soul if you choose a path that will bring pain to that soul - explaining to a child that if he puts his hand into a hole which contains a snake is not cruel, but is actually a sign of love, it would be cruel to say that 'go ahead and put your hand in the hole, mommy will kiss it better when you get bitten'!

We can short-circuit the wait and jump to the discussion if you admit that you have no evidence to back up the 61% claim - and I'll gladly edit your previous thread title to reflect that the headline is unfounded.

Cheers,
Shafique

I'll easily explain that God's love for humanity is manifested in explaining what will happen to your soul if you choose a path that will bring pain to that soul - explaining to a child that if he puts his hand into a hole which contains a snake is not cruel, but is actually a sign of love, it would be cruel to say that 'go ahead and put your hand in the hole, mommy will kiss it better when you get bitten'!

Yes, we already went over this weird belief of yours before.

You believe it natural for a parent to tell their children that they won't love them anymore if they displease them.

I said that I thought it was odd and I can't think of any good parent who would say such a thing, in any context.

So, most parents are better people than Allah, according to your analogy.

I'll patiently remind you that this thread is to determine if the author's claims (not mine) on the other thread are correct.

But perhaps you should contact the author since only he knows the criteria he used to select which verses 'speak ill' of unbelievers and which verses are positive towards non-believers.

As for context, if the verse says 'unbelievers are X', as opposed to 'Billy Bob, from the unbelievers, did X', then that verse clearly provides all the context I need. After all, no one today can blanket entire groups of people even if the speaker was supposedly only referring to a small segment of people.

I'm holding the 'eternal' Koran up to modern standards. Something that Muslims who actually believe the Koran is eternal are so very hesitant at actually doing.

You want me to contact the author you quoted to check the figures you believe are true?

Ok I'll take that as confirmation that you can't provide evidence for the 61% then. Typical of loons to make accusations that can't be backed by actual evidence - only 'beliefs' and spin.

Now, you also appear to be confused with my answer. Where did I say that the Quran's teachings are not eternal? I didn't.

I explained that God explaining what will happen to souls who don't follow God's commandments is equivalent to a loving parent telling a child not to put their hand into a snake's lair. Explaining how a soul will suffer if they don't follow God's laws is an act of love.

Islam is pretty clear about the benefits of following the path laid out by God and pretty clear what the consequences will be after death if one chooses not to follow these commandments. God is pretty clear that He is also forgiving and merciful too - and that we should pray for His grace and mercy.

The Quran is replete with glad tidings for those who choose God and warnings for those that choose to not follow God. I can't see what your objection to God's description of the pain souls will endure if they sin are?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Where did I say that the Quran's teachings are not eternal? I didn't.

Good boy.

Now, if you actually read what I said, you would see that I wrote that Muslims *do* hold the Koran as being an eternal book - they just don't actually understand what this always entails.

event horizon wrote:I'm holding the 'eternal' Koran up to modern standards. Something that Muslims who actually believe the Koran is eternal are so very hesitant at actually doing.

Now ask your second grade teacher for your money back.

shafique wrote:I explained that God explaining what will happen to souls who don't follow God's commandments is equivalent to a loving parent telling a child not to put their hand into a snake's lair.

Right, good parents tell their children that their love for them is conditional. A good parent only loves their child if their child loves them back (follows their rules). We can also see if a good parent punishes children for what they believe - as the Koran promises eternal torture to those who are not believers.

Anyways, I await your own 'positive' verse to cancel out the verse about not taking non-Muslim friends.

After all, we can't see if the Koran contains more negative or positive verses about non-believers if you won't follow along.

Firstly thanks for confirming that your 61% loon headline was really just another 'belief'that loons have and you have not been able to get the evidence to back this up.

You'll have to explain to me your loon logic that a parent telling a child what will happen if it puts his/her hand in fire or in a snake pit is NOT an act of love.

God telling us what will happen if we obey His laws (we will get peace in this life and in the hereafter) and the consequences of not following His laws - our souls will suffer - is exactly the same. It is an act of love to warn us of the consequences of taking a path that will cause us pain.

You seem to be blaming a parent for the fire burning the child or the snake biting the child - but the parent's warning is just that - a warning that is motivated out of love. If a child does put their hand in fire and is burnt, does that mean the parent loves the child any less??

Explain yourself young loon - why do you think a warning is not an act of love?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Firstly thanks for confirming that your 61% loon headline was really just another 'belief'that loons have and you have not been able to get the evidence to back this up.

No, I have not looked because I don't care enough to bother.

shafique wrote:You'll have to explain to me your loon logic that a parent telling a child what will happen if it puts his/her hand in fire or in a snake pit is NOT an act of love.

False analogies are fun.

shafique wrote:You seem to be blaming a parent for the fire burning the child or the snake biting the child - but the parent's warning is just that - a warning that is motivated out of love. If a child does put their hand in fire and is burnt, does that mean the parent loves the child any less??

Please stop with your dumb analogy.

It really is too painful to explain to you that being a non-believer who holds different beliefs than Muslims is not the same as a child who sticks their hand in a fire. I would think most would know better than to promote such an absurd analogy ....

Beyond that, Allah's love is conditional - it says so right in the Koran - whereas a good parent's love for their child is unconditional.

Allah's love extends only to those who love him back. Therefore, allah is morally inferior to any good parent who loves their child unconditionally.

We went over this before - where you actually said that a mother should tell her child that she will no longer love her child until her child obeys her. Apparently that includes the child holding the same views as her mother.

I was speechless.

Sometimes I think loons have a different dictionary from the rest of us.

Simple question - does a parent love a child less if they warn the child not to put their hands in fire, and then they subsequently do and get burnt?

How is a warning given in love not an expression of love?

Cheers,
Shafique

What part of my explanation was confusing to you ?

1) The warning is for non-Muslims to change their beliefs and become Muslims. There's no similarities to your analogy of a parent warning their child not to stick their hand in a fire

2) Good parent don't tell their children that they will stop loving them less until their children obey them. Your analogy didn't cover that, but that is what the Koran says.

3) Parents do not have control over fire. allah can and does have control over who is sent to hell and even control over their duration - apparently he must control their torture, as well. That allah sends non-believers to hell for not believing in allah or his messenger for an eternity to face the cruel punishments explicitly spelled out in the Koran is a far cry from parents who cannot change the world their children live in - but would certainly do so if they could.

So, we seem to agree that a Parent who warns a child out of love is not loving a child unconditionally.

Great - we are making progress.

God tells us that our actions have consequences - if we follow His laws and guidelines we will get peace and tranquility - a state of heaven. When we do things that will harm our souls - by going against the path that leads to peace, this damages our souls and leads to pain and torment.

Warning us that the souls will be in torment because of our actions is an act of Love. That is Islam in a nutshell - it says we have the capability to make choices and the choices lead to consequences - God is not cruel by stating that the consequence of a bad choice is going to be discomfort or pain because of the harm we are doing to our souls.

What God does say though, is that He is merciful and forgiving and we should avail of this - He can alleviate the suffering.

You would have realised this had you actually read the Quran and not relied on Guru Bob's interpretations.

Cheers,
Shafique

So, we seem to agree that a Parent who warns a child out of love is not loving a child unconditionally.

Ah - now you're deliberately being stupid. Of course I didn't say that, but I would be curious to know which comment led you to believe that.

Perhaps you should start quoting me so I can spend less time refuting your straw-men ?

Anyways, there is another thread dealing with allah's conditional love.

by going against the path that leads to peace, this damages our souls and leads to pain and torment.

I take it that being a non-Muslim is one of those choices that will damage one's soul ?

LoL.

But allah is clear - he does not love those who 'go against the path'.

Warning us that the souls will be in torment because of our actions is an act of Love.

Right, and allah does not love those he has to warn. The Koran says so.

It's not until one goes back on the right path that allah will start loving them again.

In other words, allah would make a very lousy parent.

But since we have another thread to discuss allah's conditional love, we can get back to finding out if the Koran contains more negative passages towards non-believers or positive.

Right now, one negative passage has been quoted and you have been unable or unwilling to quote a single positive passage.

What confused you in my previous explanations?

I really can't help you if you think describtng the consequences of actions by God is not an expression of love or is somehow negative.

Loon logic seems immune to common sense.

It seems that your whole argument falls flat - God saying what happens to those who sin is not negative, but a warning to believers.

I mean RobbyG isn't going to be worried too much about what the Quran says will happen to those who sin after death etc - is he? How is this a negative verse?

Fire and brimstone is hardly a concept introduced by Islam, is it?

Cheers
Shafique

Hehe

you dont need to count negative verses in Quran, event horizon, going trough recent threads shows how much of Quran followers' sentences are just name calling and of course not sensible!

I really can't help you if you think describtng the consequences of actions by God is not an expression of love or is somehow negative.

Ok, you believe that Allah warning Muslims that non-believers will burn in hell for eternity is an expression of love.

Fair enough.

Loon logic seems immune to common sense.

To whom is allah's warning an expression of love ? It couldn't be sinners/disbelievers.

Allah says that he does not love disbelievers/sinners.

If you want to call that an expression of love, go ahead. I s'pose you'll claim others are immune to 'common sense'.

Yeah, right.

I mean RobbyG isn't going to be worried too much about what the Quran says will happen to those who sin after death etc - is he? How is this a negative verse?

Ok, you don't want passages relating to the afterlife included. Thank you for making yourself clear.

Well, we still have one negative passage and zero positive passages.

It works like this Eh,.. imagine you are the best creator of hand painted pictures in the world, some rich snob, without your will and permission attempts to deny you as the sole owner/creator/painter and starts to reprint your work under his name or by large, attempts to destroy your fame and malign your artistic qualities. You can extend this to the innovations of inventors who get copy or patent rights for what they do...
In this case, the question will always be the same as yours to Shafique..Would you really love the person who denies or steals your copy/patent rights when despite the fact that you assigned a lawyer (prophet) and informed them of their malice-use/treatment (quranic warning), and that if you’re pretty sure he will continue to ignore your lawyers/warning than wouldn’t you start threatening to sue(judgement day) and get them jailed for whatever is the punishment deserved against that resistance (hell)
The mater of fact is that Eh, we are the precious pictures of that painter (God), he has the patent rights on us for anything he sees us worthy (the way he describes believers/disbelievers in quran).
Ever since our creation, we received countless divine messages, significant ones especially coming after the arrival of prophet Abraham…And on this journey we seem to have never learned from historical experiences and still continue to find excuses to deny and ignore him through all sorts of reasons we find that only satifies our conscious self.

Berrin, thanks for your views.

This thread is to determine if the Koran has more negative or positive passages about unbelievers.

Shafique (who raised the issue) seems unwilling or unable to find a single passage from the Koran that speaks positively of non-Muslims.

A muslim is the one who believes in all the revelations, revealed by all the messengers of God.
Islam is the religion of all those prophets and the followers of their time..

Quran speaks positively of those believers who believed in the messages of the prophets of their time,
until of course islam arrived with prophet muhammad, through which all the messages of previous messengers were combined, completed and finalised as a whole to be followed by all humanity until judgement day..

Islam which was the religion of all the prophets were meant to deal with unbelivers and establish the law(religion) of the Lord of the worlds...

This is the proof from quran....(quran not only talks about prophet muhammed and his disbelivers but the other prophets and their disbelievers..)

What the Qur'an teaches : Unbelievers’ argument in hell

In the name of God, the Lord of Grace, the Ever Merciful. Before the fire they are brought, morning and evening, and then on the Day when the Last Hour comes, it will be said: Cast Pharaoh’s people into the worst suffering.
They will contend with one another in the fire: The weak will say to those who were arrogant, “We have been your followers, so can you relieve us of some share of the fire?”
The arrogant will reply: “We are all in it together. For God has judged between His creatures.”
Those in the fire will say to the keepers of hell: “Pray to your Lord that He lighten this suffering of ours, though it be for one day only.”
They will ask: “Did your messengers not come to you with clear evidence of the truth?” They will say: “Yes, indeed.” (The keepers of hell) will say: “Pray, then!” But the prayers of the unbelievers will be all in vain.
(AL-GHAFIR-The Forgiving(God); 40: 46-50)

Thee are many lessons in these verses when we think of current world affairs.But the two significant ones are:
1-never follow and appraise disbelieving arrogant/tyrant world/country leaders that are also driving their blindly following supporters into hellfire,despite all the clear messages of God that are well known to humanity..

2- and always be supportive of new emerging leaderships who are belivers and advocates of true message of God, in the hope that not only they will save themselves but also save their followers by propagating faith, relevant prosperity and happiness in everyones lives as a whole society here and the hereafter..

Eh would you like to read more on hell?...
Salvation from hellfire..
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/243/

A Description of Hellfire ..
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/344/viewall/

Berrin - you are right that God explains what happens to those souls that aren't forgiven, but we should also remind eh of the many verses which state that God is most forgiving as well.

I also explained to eh that God explaining what will happen to souls who don't follow God's commandments is equivalent to a loving parent telling a child not to put their hand into a snake's lair. Explaining how a soul will suffer if they don't follow God's laws is an act of love.

Islam is pretty clear about the benefits of following the path laid out by God and pretty clear what the consequences will be after death if one chooses not to follow these commandments. God is pretty clear that He is also forgiving and merciful too - and that we should pray for His grace and mercy.

The Quran is replete with glad tidings for those who choose God and warnings for those that choose to not follow God. I can't see what eh's objection to God's description of the pain souls will endure if they sin are?

Cheers,
Shafique

Thanks Shafique, my reply was in response to his qutoe "unable to find a single passage from the Koran that speaks positively of non-Muslims."..... But yes, as always we should also remind him of the many verses which state that God is most forgiving as well.

Here we are.....(in purist description)
The Divine Mercy of God: God the Most-Merciful, the Dispenser of Mercy
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/419/viewall/

My Mercy Prevails Over My Wrath
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/1183/viewall/

The Names of God: The Most Merciful
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/1594/

Eh would you also like to read about the Pleasures of Paradise?
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/11/viewall/

True love is unconditional. The weak and unsecure try to 'force' love with punishment.

of course negative , if u dont belive in Allah , Hz Muhammed and Kuran you will go to hell ... maybe it seem bad non-believers but this is true, thats it...

True love is unconditional. The weak and unsecure try to 'force' love with punishment.

never mind the hereafter, infact there is nothing on this earth that happens unconditionaly..

A tree doesn't give fruit, unless it flowers,,
A boss doesn't give salary, unless you do the job required,
A child doesn't love his parents, unless they provide, love and show compassion,
An ill doesn't get cured unless they get treated..
A marriage/relationship doesn't last unless you start to think as two not as one (conditional)
A child doesn't become a scientist unless you educated him in that direction..
A night doesn't arrive unless you've gone through day light...
Meal doesn't cook unless you put it on the cooker..
You don't sensibly mature unless you get hurt and you learn from mistakes called experience...and so on..

What god says is that he has created us all out of his love and passion so that we recognize him and worship him alone..
Just like what parents would expect from their kids after many years of their hardship to raise us as beautiful,complete,humane beings...(you can't turn your back on them, can you?)

“I have created the jinn and humankind only for My worship.” (Quran 51:56)

So if you want to eat fruit(paradise), you have to plant a seed(will) to become a tree(belief in God/religion),planting a tree is not enough itself, you have to make sure that it gives healthy(true path) flower buds for fruits, i.e prune,water,feed with nutrition, insecticide (good deeds, prayers,repentance)...in short worship....

God sustains us with his bounty and endless mercy while giving us free will and choice, warning at the same time through his messengers and revelations..
So It's up to us what we do as long as we can bare our own destiny upon our choices...

Why Did God Create Mankind?
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/336/viewall/

berrin wrote:just like what parents would expect from their kids after many years of their hardship to raise us as beautiful,complete,humane beings...(you can't turn your back on them, can you?)

Yet the difference between a good parent from allah is that a good parent has unconditional love for their child.

Shafique has already said that 'good' parents should tell their children that their love is conditional if the child disobeys them. I think he gave the example of a mother threatening her children that her love for them ends when her children disobey her.

And as William Lane Craig has already pointed out, Christian God has unconditional love for all of mankind whereas allah only loves those who love him back (follow his commands, worship him, etc).



Actually, here's the exact quote, I kid you not:

A mother will tell a child that she will not like children who misbehave or play with fire - ultimately to prevent them from hurting thmselves.

The difference between Christians and Muslims can be distilled down to: Christians hate the sin, Muslims hate the sinner.

event horizon wrote:
Yet the difference between a good parent from allah is that a good parent has unconditional love for their child.

Absolutely not, a good parent have unconditional love(mercy and show grace) towards their child until he/she becomes an adult(they will nurture you, educate you, provide and sustain you until you become an adult),.. After reaching adulthood if you stop honouring and start to humiliate, reject and disrespect their hardship they may start to curse you and not love you anymore despite their conscious of being owners as parents..

Shafique has already said that 'good' parents should tell their children that their love is conditional if the child disobeys them. I think he gave the example of a mother threatening her children that her love for them ends when her children disobey her.

And as William Lane Craig has already pointed out, Christian God has unconditional love for all of mankind... - Really?

Shafique is correct.. Love must be translated in action, attitude and behavior, otherwise it is just a word without meaning...
http://www.ilaam.net/Questions/AllahsLove.html

The difference between Christians and Muslims can be distilled down to: Christians hate the sin, Muslims hate the sinner.

Noo no no..there is no such thing as christian,jewish, muslim god..There is one and only God that shared by all monotheistic religions..
Otherwise Muslim god would not claim that what propehet jesus and moses worshiped was the same..
Remember how 1 god became 3 gods?
http://www.islamtomorrow.com/bible/Arianism.asp

Since the corruption of revelations after prophet jesus , I am not sure if the christian god was made to love the sinner or the sins..
But this pastor says that God loves the sinner but not the sins..
http://www.cause-of-god.com/love_sinners.html

However if you read my previous links in the previous messages you will surely see that God in Islam loves the sinners (as long as they show regret,remorse and repentance) but curses the sins..

The point that really stumps eh is that Christian theologians who have studied the Quran have concluded that the God of Muhammad, pbuh, is the same God of Moses and Jesus etc.

Hans Kung has been quoted a few times stating this explicitly.

Therefore the attributes of God are the same - He is unchanging.

What the loons are trying (and failing to do) is insinuate that the God of Islam is different in characteristic from the God of the Bible. They deliberately confuse the descriptions of what happens to one's soul when one sins (i.e. disobeys the commandments of God, do things that harm one's soul) with a notion that this is a sign God does not love everyone.

Notice how eh refuses to acknowledge that Kung's conclusion that the God of the Quran is the same God of the Bible means that the attributes in the Quran don't contradict the attributes in the Bible.

The loon argument also breaks down completely when one considers that the Bible also states that there is a Hell and that there will be inhabitants in Hell. God loves all people, but people are accountable for their actions - and if their actions lead to their souls suffering - it is not because God does not love them.

The analogy of the loving parents is apt. Warning that the fire burns or the snake bites is not a sign that they want the child to burn their hands or get bitten, but rather a loving warning that they will suffer if they put their hands in the fire or in the snake pit. A parent does not deceive a child that there is no fire or no snake.

So, we are left with a choice - either accept the loon interpretations of the Quran and their beliefs that Allah is not the God of Jesus and Moses, or accept the conclusions of proper scholars like Kung and others who know that the attributes of God in the Quran are indeed of an All-Merciful, ever-forgiving God (Al Rahman and Al Ghafoor).

Cheers,
Shafique

Absolutely not, a good parent have unconditional love(mercy and show grace) towards their child until he/she becomes an adult(they will nurture you, educate you, provide and sustain you until you become an adult),.. After reaching adulthood if you stop honouring and start to humiliate, reject and disrespect their hardship they may start to curse you and not love you anymore despite their conscious of being owners as parents..

The problem here is that your understanding of what passes for good parenting is shaped by your religion.

Allah hates disblievers/sinners. So, from your upbringing you think it's 'ok' for parents to love their children conditionally - to only love if you are loved back. That is the example that the god of the Koran sets.

In the West, parents are expected to love their children unconditionally - a parent may hate their child's actions and become hurt over their child's choices in life, but it is expected that parents following the Western/Christian based model to never stop loving their children.

I have to come to the conclusion that the Western ideal of unconditional love is based almost entirely on the love God has for humanity in the Bible.

-- Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:17 pm --

shafique wrote:The point that really stumps eh is that Christian theologians who have studied the Quran have concluded that the God of Muhammad, pbuh, is the same God of Moses and Jesus etc.

Hans Kung has been quoted a few times stating this explicitly.

Therefore the attributes of God are the same - He is unchanging.

What the loons are trying (and failing to do) is insinuate that the God of Islam is different in characteristic from the God of the Bible. They deliberately confuse the descriptions of what happens to one's soul when one sins (i.e. disobeys the commandments of God, do things that harm one's soul) with a notion that this is a sign God does not love everyone.

Notice how eh refuses to acknowledge that Kung's conclusion that the God of the Quran is the same God of the Bible means that the attributes in the Quran don't contradict the attributes in the Bible.

The loon argument also breaks down completely when one considers that the Bible also states that there is a Hell and that there will be inhabitants in Hell. God loves all people, but people are accountable for their actions - and if their actions lead to their souls suffering - it is not because God does not love them.

The analogy of the loving parents is apt. Warning that the fire burns or the snake bites is not a sign that they want the child to burn their hands or get bitten, but rather a loving warning that they will suffer if they put their hands in the fire or in the snake pit. A parent does not deceive a child that there is no fire or no snake.

So, we are left with a choice - either accept the loon interpretations of the Quran and their beliefs that Allah is not the God of Jesus and Moses, or accept the conclusions of proper scholars like Kung and others who know that the attributes of God in the Quran are indeed of an All-Merciful, ever-forgiving God (Al Rahman and Al Ghafoor).

Cheers,
Shafique

But what does the Koran say ?

Does allah say that he loves non-believers/sinners ?

What part of God loves everyone is confusing to you?

Does God not also love the people that are in the Hell described in the Bible? How is that any different from God loving those who choose to incur His punishment, and God warning us of the consequences of our actions?

The problem for you, young one, is that Christian scholars of theology have concluded that the God of the Quran is the God of the Bible (and this is, of course, what the Quran says and Muslims believe). You keep running away from this fact as it exposes the simple truth that you are wilfully being hypocritical in insisting your interpretation of Islam (the weird, loon inerpretation) is true.

I.e. - you've been comprehensively punked, yet again.



Cheers,
Shafique

What part of God loves everyone is confusing to you?

There would be no confusion if you just quoted the Koran where allah said that.

Where does allah love sinners ? Where does allah love non-believers ?

But just do it on another thread.

This thread is to determine if the Koran has more negative or positive passage regarding unbelievers.

Mecruh says the Koran is mostly negative towards unbelievers.

I agree with him.

Right now, the count stands at 1 negative, 0 positive.

This thread is to determine if the Koran has more negative or positive passage regarding unbelievers.

Your problem then must be with "religion",not just islam as it is cause all monotheistic religions resist against disbelivers..
Such as the terminology in judo-christian world..atheist, heathen, heretic, apostate, blasphemy, pagan, sinner,anti-Christ, chosen and gentile..

Well, let's recall that this thread was only started after you quoted an article stating that 61% of the Quranic verses speak ill of non-believers. You couldn't back that up, so had to start this one.

I have merely pointed out to you that your whole underlying premise is wrong - in that there is no difference between the attributes of God of the Bible and the God who revealed the Quran. Scholars of theology, eg Professor Hans Kung, have concluded exactly this point.

From the outset it has been clearly explained to you that God loves all creation and this is manifested in the attribute Rahman. This attribute is listed at least 114 times in the Quran, and appears in the very first verse of the Quran.

I also reject the notion that God explaining what happens to souls that sin is a 'negative verse' - it is merely an explanation of what the consequences of wrong choices are. The Quran is replete with the glad tidings for those who choose to follow God's commands as well - again, only explaining what benefits are.

So, the choice remains - do we believe the Islamophobic view that the God of the Quran is different from the God of the Bible, or do we believe credible theological scholars who conclude that they are one and the same?

If we reject the loon view in favour of scholarship, your whole premise is punked. That's why you're avoiding this simple fact.

Cheers,
Shafique