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desertdudeshj wrote:Last time I checked Your opinion Vs International Law. Your opinion wasn't worth crap, so tough cookies. Your entitled to your opinion but just don't try to pass it off as FACT. And then go about making bold claims based on your false facts and sh!t. Keep it real as tell it like it is.

Its pretty obvious you have an American govermental attitude towards Israel, that in any altercation, its the other party who always guilty until proven innocent.

Yes one can't be right all the time, but in your case your hardly ever right. Yes you might have good arguing skills and divert attention from the subject matter with the greatest slight of hand which many here dont even notice. But still it doesnt make you right.

Cheers

Haha, alright you caught me this time. I was throwing shitty facts at ya and it worked for a bit.

The essence of my point still stands though.

We got ourselves a smart-ass all of a sudden!!

Sorry Rob, devil's advocate or not, DD's punked you there!

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote::)

Sorry Rob, devil's advocate or not, DD's punked you there!

Cheers,
Shafique

I would agree with that.

Habibi I'm with you cent percent all the way, what ur sayin makes absolute sense. But then again couldn't this so called aid ship simply enter into gaza via Egypt?
The main objective of the aid ship was to provoke Israel, and Israel fell for it! Period!

It's not "so called" aid ships, they were indeed ships carrying aid to Gaza..Egypt is in no position to open the rafah check points to Gazans..Hence why gazans have hidden underground tunnels carrying goods into gaza..

Egyptian government is rather protecting the rights of Israelies and isn't reresentative of Egyptian peoples feelings.. I don't know what happened at Camp David Accords but ever since that accord, Egyptians even managed to build steel walls between Gazans and Egypt..Acting like enemies..

Special report- Egyptian government infected by mad Israeli wall disease
http://www.uruknet.info/?new=61602

It's only the pressure that comes from this flotilla that have made Egypt and Israel agree to open the checkpoints. I don't think it will be permenant, they will close it as soon as the pressure cools down..

Civilian campaigns will continue until the siege on gaza lifted, which is against human rights and israelies have no "just" excuse to either impose sanctions nor siege on gazans..

Berrin, I read that the reason that border control is so hot is because of the latest threat surrounding Iran supplying skud missiles to Hezbollah, Lebanon.

Israel is on high alert these days. Its comes at no surprise that they stopped the Aid ship. A bunch of lefty humanitarians think they can ram through a naval blockade and supply whomever they please...Hell no, its a warzone ffs.

Just stop talking crap.. what israelies should tell their citizens that had the muslim world set their mind to destroy israel it would only take them few minutes to shoot long distance missiles at the same time into densely populated few cities of israel wiping out the whole population as well as the full land capacity..

They better stop being a..seoles and get on with peacefull life leaving all together..

I agree with the latter, but if you think that peace will suddenly succeed after 60 years of pain, you're ignorantly mistaken

no actually, you would be surprised to see how quicly muslims would adopt themselves to peaceful environment,but I can also see how this can be overwhelmingly self humiliation of israeli citizen waking like aliens amongst populating Arabs...I don't think they can ever overcome their inferiority complex,, that's why they have to continue to kill and keep sieged lands open prisons for muslims in Israel...ar.eoles..

Wow, truth be told. +1 notch up for you my theist friend.

RobbyG wrote:The essence of my point still stands though.

The essence of your point just got defeated by Israels latest action of with holding most of the Aid in the flotilla which a large portion of was made up of stuff like cement, steel bars etc etc i.e : Building materials. So the the flotila was correct in assuming that the aid would never reach gaza

Now you will agrue that these material are banned under the blockade. What is the blockade ? The blockade is ilegal in itself. Its none of Israels bussiness what goes in and out of Gazza. Now you might and Israel does argue its for the security and protection of the Israeli people against Hamas rocket attacks.

Now all sorts of tanks, arms and weapons of all kinds land at ports like ashdod, why arn't they blocked. History will tell you that the Israelis have come across or bombed over the border and killed and injured far more palestenians than any of the Hamas rockets have. Shouldn't Israel be under a blockade aswell then ? Why the double standards ?

Another surprising report I heard on BBC today was Cinamon is allowed in but corriander is not, Jam is allowed by marmalade is not ? and they have all kind of these insane regulations, What sense does this make.

All of this is simply explained, because Israel is stronger than the palestenians and it simply because it can and does, it goes about breaking laws like it has diplomactic immunity. Who knows maybe it does, would explain a lot though.

So trying to "uphold" a ilegal and inhumane blockade does not justify anything.

Also the self defense argument is totally based on statements by Israel and heavily edited videos released by the IDF. Now that we are starting to hear accounts of what happened from who were actually on board these ships. It doesn't sound so simple after all.

Also there were many making video of these events as they unfolded on the ships, why have all these been confisticated. If Israel has nothing to hide then why the a media blackout.

Also why was this humanitarian flotilla attacked and treated like a military target. Many ships have been denied access to various ports around the world without any of this non sense. What were they afraid of that they would land in Gazza run across the border and defeat the IDF with rubber hoses and rods ?

Israel gt its panties in a twist and got caught up in their own self inflated ego. How dare they challenge the authority of Israel and as usual brought a bazooka to a knife fight. In this case a small blunt wooden stick

If someone punched you in the gut what would you do ? Bring your chin closer so he can get cleaner shot on the next one ?


P.S : As for the blockade Israel alone is not to blame for this. Egyptians are just as guilty of this, the Egyptians also enforced this blockade. But atleast they opened it up now and for the moment are spared from looking like complete d!cks

desertdudeshj wrote:

RobbyG wrote:The essence of my point still stands though.

The essence of your point just got defeated by Israels latest action of with holding most of the Aid in the flotilla which a large portion of was made up of stuff like cement, steel bars etc etc i.e : Building materials. So the the flotila was correct in assuming that the aid would never reach gaza

Just because the raid went bad, doesn't mean the economic blockade is suddenly called off. What do you think Israel tries to be? The benevolence club! Ha, think again.

Now you will agrue that these material are banned under the blockade. What is the blockade ? The blockade is ilegal in itself. Its none of Israels bussiness what goes in and out of Gazza. Now you might and Israel does argue its for the security and protection of the Israeli people against Hamas rocket attacks.

The argument for security is valid. It happens to fit well with economic austerity placed upon the Palestinians in an effort to overthrow their Hamas politics. The effect seems counterproductive, which isn't suprising.

It works with North Korea though. The North Koreans got a little edgy (who doesn't) and fired a torpedo in a South Korean navy vessle. It was a blunt effort to get global attention, similar to the humanitarian workers of the flotilla. Facts is, the people are suffering for it. Leadership doesn't change, even though its the purpose of it all. But I don't see humanitarians going to North Korea all of a sudden!? Right?

Are Palestinians suddenly better people than Communist North Koreans?

Now all sorts of tanks, arms and weapons of all kinds land at ports like ashdod, why arn't they blocked. History will tell you that the Israelis have come across or bombed over the border and killed and injured far more palestenians than any of the Hamas rockets have. Shouldn't Israel be under a blockade aswell then ? Why the double standards ?

Israel screens the goods arriving into Ashdod port. Every arrival for the Palestinian cause can be shipped through Ashdod. You just need permission from the Israeli's. If case you are stubborn, you get the army on your neck. Whats new?

Another surprising report I heard on BBC today was Cinamon is allowed in but corriander is not, Jam is allowed by marmalade is not ? and they have all kind of these insane regulations, What sense does this make.

I bet that one has more nutritious value than the other. Brand recognition. Very important.

All of this is simply explained, because Israel is stronger than the palestenians and it simply because it can and does, it goes about breaking laws like it has diplomactic immunity. Who knows maybe it does, would explain a lot though.

A bully is a princess. I agree. The Arab league of 1947 got what it feared could happen. Crying doesn't help, accepting a peacedeal could make life much easier for everyone. 22% sounds reasonable to me after 60+ years of agony. Great Arab leadership. The world can learn alot from them...

So trying to "uphold" a ilegal and inhumane blockade does not justify anything.

Also the self defense argument is totally based on statements by Israel and heavily edited videos released by the IDF. Now that we are starting to hear accounts of what happened from who were actually on board these ships. It doesn't sound so simple after all.

Also there were many making video of these events as they unfolded on the ships, why have all these been confisticated. If Israel has nothing to hide then why the a media blackout.

IDF releases what it deems appropriate to cover her case. Every attorney would try to make her case look good, wouldn't you?

You gotta love the audacity of the 'peace' protestors...
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6sAEYpH ... G2icZww3Ac
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZlSSaPT ... LqwfoCkT0s

And suddenly they become Shahid, from that point onwards, stop whining if you get beaten.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSAxAj2K ... OQ3nklgdRE

Also why was this humanitarian flotilla attacked and treated like a military target. Many ships have been denied access to various ports around the world without any of this non sense. What were they afraid of that they would land in Gazza run across the border and defeat the IDF with rubber hoses and rods ?

Israel gt its panties in a twist and got caught up in their own self inflated ego. How dare they challenge the authority of Israel and as usual brought a bazooka to a knife fight. In this case a small blunt wooden stick

If someone punched you in the gut what would you do ? Bring your chin closer so he can get cleaner shot on the next one ?

Have you ever been working on an International airport? I worked with Israeli's on airside. There isn't a carrier stricter in its security than Israel. We were given special awareness how to behave with Israeli's because these guys don't like comedians. They are also the only carrier which is granted permission to carry conceiled firearms on platform.

You know what you're in for when you defy Israeli's. Period.

P.S : As for the blockade Israel alone is not to blame for this. Egyptians are just as guilty of this, the Egyptians also enforced this blockade. But atleast they opened it up now and for the moment are spared from looking like complete d!cks

I agree, economic sanctions are nasty. Bombs at your checkpoint also. Everybody needs a vacation every now and then.

Again trying to humour your way out of one of your @ss facts without actually even one decent justification.

But Hey I'm a funny guy and enjoy a good laugh

But like I said just because you can make things go round in circles doesn't make you right or credible.

Cheers

Credibility isn't exactly my problem. My defensive case just isn't particularly solid. Thats a problem.
I guess the Israeli's screwed up a few times along the way. (to say the least)

A barrister uses the means he has working for him, right?

A good barister stays aways from meaningless cases he knows he gonna loose.

I think its about time you handed in your resgination at Devils, Satan and Associates

Sounds like a great plan. My reputation is dangling in the dungeons here.

Back to normal.

RobbyG wrote:I guess the Israeli's screwed up a few times along the way. (to say the least)

I'm impressed you kept up the act for as long as you did!




Cheers,
Shafique

I know, Chuck Norris would have gotten a hard-on when he sees me perform.

When observing a RobbyG roundhouse kick in slow motion, one finds that the G-man actually rapes his victim in the ass, smokes a cigarette with Netanyanhu, and then roundhouse kicks the audience in the face.

I caught on quite early on, but played on a bit after this - for laughs.

I'm wondering whether the fanbois thought you were serious - they wisely didn't join with you, now THAT would have been funny.

Cheers,
Shafique

Berrin wrote:It's not "so called" aid ships, they were indeed ships carrying aid to Gaza..Egypt is in no position to open the rafah check points to Gazans..Hence why gazans have hidden underground tunnels carrying goods into gaza..

Yaa fair enough, but at the end of the day apparently the aid is rotting away in some warehouse!

I quite like how you say, Egypt was in no position to open the crossing so let's just go via our friendly neighbors Isreal....LOL. Seriously Berrin, I get it ur biased,!!! but don't be blinded my friend!

Berrin wrote:Egyptian government is rather protecting the rights of Israelies and isn't reresentative of Egyptian peoples feelings.. I don't know what happened at Camp David Accords but ever since that accord, Egyptians even managed to build steel walls between Gazans and Egypt..Acting like enemies..

Yaa so? We know all that! But if the "peace loving humanitarian(lol)" (what and who are humanitarians? are they jobless British blonds who put themselves on a pedestal for no apparent reason?? and offcourse Journos chasing that perfect story??) really just wanted to get much needed aid across, would'nt it have been easier to go via Egypt. Surely Israel would'nt have intercepted the ship on Egyptian waters, and surely Egypt would'nt intercept the ship either? Right?
So I'm just raising a valid point regarding the actual motives of sending across such a vessel!

Lets not forget Egypt also had to use force against "peacefull humanitarians" (under leadership of Galloway) trying to deliver goods into Gaza via Rafah. The "peacefull humanitarians"also can't resist a good riot in Egypt. I believe an Egyptian policeman was killed and Hamas also fired shots at the crowd.

You're right FD.

You'll recall though that there was vociferous condemnation of Egypts actions by humanitarian groups, and indeed Egypt is lumped in with Israel for helping enforce the world's largest concentration camp, as some call gaza (some are more charitable and just call it an open prison).

But you'd expect a louder outcry when a Middle Eastern army storms a humanitarian convoy and kills 8 Europeans and a US national (but the excuses are only proffered when the Army is Israeli and the Europeans are Turks!)

Cheers,
Shafique

North Korea is paradise, I hear.

^If Chuck Norris were a calendar, every month would be named Chucktober, and every day he'd kick your a.ss.

Now, can we get back to 'Sea of Stupidity'?


Rob, here's a line you may find useful in future:

An old Israeli saying describing various less-than-esteemed military leaders says: “He was so stupid that even the other generals noticed.” The same derisive remark could be applied almost without exception to the present generation of Israeli politicians.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/patrick-cockburn-pr-dangerously-distorts-the-israeli-sense-of-reality-1988977.html

When Israel is a belligerent country and a threat to peace in the Middle East, and the continuing occupation of Palestine’s lands, attack on Gaza, and the recent killing of peace activists on the international water are examples.

Then:

Why Israel has nuclear weapon and Iran is not even allowed to have spare parts to repair its military aircraft?!!!!

Why is it that the arms race in the Middle East was started by the Israeli's and nobody is waging war against them for thier "WMDs"?

Why is Israel allowed to go on producing weapons of mass destruction and nobody is allowed to inspect them?

Why Israel has nuclear weapon and Iran is not even allowed to have spare parts to repair its military aircraft?!!!!
Why is it that the arms race in the Middle East was started by the Israeli's and nobody is waging war against them for thier "WMDs"?
Why is Israel allowed to go on producing weapons of mass destruction and nobody is allowed to inspect them?

It's all started more than a century ago when zionist jews were getting wealth wise stronger both in Ottoman and European lands..Then of course when zion interests met economic/religious interests of the industrilising christian Europe/America led them to join their efforts to create a satellite state called Israel inside ME against the threat of growing Islam or islamic development. Basically it's all power and control game and still continues to this day so much so that uncontrollable israel is now about to become a thorn in their own flesh, as the west cannot stop neither ME nor Asia from development or self determined cooperations.

http://adnan-globalissues.blogspot.com/ ... -west.html
http://adnan-globalissues.blogspot.com/ ... ation.html
http://www.mpacuk.org/story/250110/ther ... islam.html

Ever since Henry Ford refined the assembly line into an efficient factory the United States has been favoring oil through tax policy which has artificially stimulated demand. The entire American infrastructure has been built around this premise and as D.ick Cheney says, “The American way of life is not negotiable.” Just ask Saddam, Obama or Ron Paul.

Oil subsidized by government, thats the reason the US loves to interfere in the ME as often as much.

Zionists are a sideshow. They happen to feel safe with US military power covering their a$$es. Why do you think their lobby is so great. Almost a generation out and still they rely on WWII guilt feelings still present in the West. The Jews hold us accountable for not seeing and stopping the rise of Hitler more early on.

So Berrin, in about 10 years or so the US has been diversified into a massive alternative energy block, disposing crude oil as much as they can for natural gas powered cars and industries. So take a backseat and enjoy the ride out.

Its gonna happen. Either by bankruptcy or by diversification in the distant future. Chill Winstonnn!

Your right about the WWII guilt feelings, Germany still pays 2/3rds of any weapons sold to Israel to make up for it.

Oil subsidized by government, thats the reason the US loves to interfere in the ME as often as much.

Why was oil subsidized by the government? Couse they colonized oil producing ME countries. Is that all?..no..They also made sure that these muslim countries not run by peaceful humanity loving religious political leaders but by authoritarian kings or dictators who's job would only be to stay in power as long as they live from father to sons humiliating their citizens while doing their ar$ey jobs to their colonising tyrant ar.seoles.(which never was the case in muslim countries under ottoman rule)

Zionists are a sideshow. They happen to feel safe with US military power covering their a$$es. Why do you think their lobby is so great.

Their lobby is strong becouse they know America is a worldwide hegamony being backed by Europe and many other poor nations they manage to oppress. Both jewish and christians zionists are not sideshows at all..,they were the ones who actualy held power in petrol/gas/weapon industries when America was expanding its power at the turn of the 20th century. Plus many American politicians either in cabinet or in advisory positions were/are also hold shares in these global cartel or monopoly giants..

So the matter is more like,..is it the egg from the chick or the chick from the egg..
US hegemony, not "the lobby," behind complicity with israel.
http://www.truthout.org/us-hegemony-not ... srael59506

.

Like I said, the Israeli lobby is a sideshow. They happen to have a mutual interest with the US in the region. The Israeli's use leverage in corporations to direct policy in favor of their goal. Savvy businessmen, those mercantalist jews.

For the US however, the American standard of living (balancing around the price of oil) is the main driver for their ME presence.

Raise the price of oil too much, and the Americans take over.
Lower the price of oil and the Americans take a back seat.

Cut off the oil supply and US military might will squeeze the lifeblood out of every Arab that screams Shahid.

Do you Arab guys ever reflect upon yourselves? Biggest mistake you made was cutting oil supplies in the 1970's. Boy do they regret that decision. Look at American presence as evidence of that strategic mistake. Such visionary leaders hm...lol