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[quote="kanelli]
UAESAINT I can't believe that you would say that the topic of a light sentence for rape wouldn't be brought up here if it was a local girl that was affected. That is really uncalled for and only shows your contempt for the expats posting here.[/quote]

Well .... i am new to this forum ... looking around here and there ... I do respect ppl's opinion ... and i have nothing against that ...

But until someone posted ""a sad sad day for all expats indeed, so where do we go from here?"

That obviously shows that only expats should be sad & the rest of the locals are A-- Holes ..

I never agreed with the sentence ... we did not see the trail to judge ... so pointing fingers at a country that has given all an opportunity to live in peace ...

No hard feelings guyz ..... but thats how i am .. i have an allergy from racists

U a E s A i N t wrote:Well .... i am new to this forum ... looking around here and there ... I do respect ppl's opinion ... and i have nothing against that ...

But until someone posted ""a sad sad day for all expats indeed, so where do we go from here?"

That obviously shows that only expats should be sad & the rest of the locals are A-- Holes ..

I never agreed with the sentence ... we did not see the trail to judge ... so pointing fingers at a country that has given all an opportunity to live in peace ...

No hard feelings guyz ..... but thats how i am .. i have an allergy from racists

You've just dug yourself in deeper with this post.

uaesaint this thread does involve many issues which include racism, s3xism, and also different cultural prespective on issues. But your reaction was definitely not cool, just telling people to go home and all that is so out of fashion (its not the 90s anymore ... Trust alot of expats have made Dubai home and love it just as much as you do , and any criticizim comes from this love and wanting it to be a better place. Those same expats if they where home would be criticizing the system and writing to papers and bitching on forums. Its how humans are.

Now in this part of the world we have this bad habit of just praising things and never bringing up the dirt. Sheikh Mo himself acknoweldged that "self censorship" issue and asked that it be stopped. A free thinking and opininanted peoples is the only way if this country is to move forward.

Please dont take any comments personally, dont defend things just coz you feel like you have to be on the other side .. just listen to other's people's opinions and state your own .. agree to disagree no one is preaching here everyone is just speaking out their mind !

peace

MaaaD, that was a great post.

[quote]am sure that there was a strong reason for the Judge to give the Light sentence .. Not enough supporting Evidence/ Underage convicts / other Legal issues ....

Just a note on this.....the fact that they recieved 2 years for rape means that the judge is convinced that an offence occured, and hence the sentence is indeed lenient.

If he had simply let them off for lack of evidence then you would be correct, and this would not be an issue, BUT for somebody to be convicted in a court of law for the offence of rape, and then to be given only 2 years smells very suspicious to me

Also the comment about if it had happened to a local girl. If this happened the chances of the offense being reported in the first place would be slim, because of obvious reasons.

UAESAINT, we're not saying anything against nationals, but there's been a long standing history where locals get off lightly for many things, like driving offenses etc, if a cop sees blacked out windows, he ain't touching it! Thankfully though this is starting to change and everyone is being treated the same.

The point is, this was a horrific, pre-meditated attack and the offenders deserve a harsh punishment.

For example a man in the UK just got convited of raping his 12 year old stepdaught - sentence 50 years!

Thanx guyz ... i dont think taking this subject another step would solve anything...... its a matter of an opinion, i hope i did not offend anyone

lets enjoy the nice weather so far ... another month to go before we start boiling

GAB wrote:

it happens a lot, it is hard to believe, but some women unfortunatley use it as a tool to frame someone they may have a vendetta against, im sure they have ways of deciphering these things obviously the earlier reported the better, fisr of all you would see how distrought they are and secondly for any evidence, dna - clothing etc, but believe me it does happen..unfortunatley, it is hard to believe but a lot of that goes on.

BS

With the cooperation of the police agency of a small metropolitan community, 45 consecutive, disposed, false rape allegations covering a 9 year period were studied. False rape allegations constitute 41% of the total forcible rape cases (109) reported during this period. These false allegations appear to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, seeking revenge, and obtaining sympathy and attention. False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration, as frequently claimed, but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations. [False rape allegations are reported in similar numbers at college campuses; approximately 50% of rape charges are admitted to be false by the accuser.]

http://news.google.ie/news?hl=en&q=fals ... n&ie=UTF-8

MaaaD wrote:uaesaint this thread does involve many issues which include racism, s3xism, and also different cultural prespective on issues. But your reaction was definitely not cool, just telling people to go home and all that is so out of fashion (its not the 90s anymore ... Trust alot of expats have made Dubai home and love it just as much as you do , and any criticizim comes from this love and wanting it to be a better place. Those same expats if they where home would be criticizing the system and writing to papers and bitching on forums. Its how humans are.

Now in this part of the world we have this bad habit of just praising things and never bringing up the dirt. Sheikh Mo himself acknoweldged that "self censorship" issue and asked that it be stopped. A free thinking and opininanted peoples is the only way if this country is to move forward.

Please dont take any comments personally, dont defend things just coz you feel like you have to be on the other side .. just listen to other's people's opinions and state your own .. agree to disagree no one is preaching here everyone is just speaking out their mind !

peace

A well thought out and excellent post mate. Unlike another poster here. And the point that other poster fails to comprehend is that the law is biased here, plain and simple. The law should see everyone equally be it expat or national. That is the only way forward. And for someone to just suggest pack you bags and leave, well, letse see how they feel about that statement when they are on the receiving end.

boostah wrote:

GAB wrote:

it happens a lot, it is hard to believe, but some women unfortunatley use it as a tool to frame someone they may have a vendetta against, im sure they have ways of deciphering these things obviously the earlier reported the better, fisr of all you would see how distrought they are and secondly for any evidence, dna - clothing etc, but believe me it does happen..unfortunatley, it is hard to believe but a lot of that goes on.

BS

With the cooperation of the police agency of a small metropolitan community, 45 consecutive, disposed, false rape allegations covering a 9 year period were studied. False rape allegations constitute 41% of the total forcible rape cases (109) reported during this period. These false allegations appear to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, seeking revenge, and obtaining sympathy and attention. False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration, as frequently claimed, but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations. [False rape allegations are reported in similar numbers at college campuses; approximately 50% of rape charges are admitted to be false by the accuser.]

http://news.google.ie/news?hl=en&q=fals ... tab=wn&ie=
UTF-8

The article is not found at that link.

According to the stats, 41% of the reported 109 cases were false. What about the other women who didn't report their rapes? That would certainly reduce the percentage if those were factored in. According to many studies, on average only about 20% of rapes are ever reported. http://www.vaasa.org/vastats.html

From my experience with friends who have been raped or molested - it is the real deal. I don't know any women personally who have ever lied about being raped, but I don't deny that some women will do it.

boostah- Ok let's get serious. Talk about cases that make it to court with hard evidence- scientific evidence. It seems to me that you are implying a soft sentence is OK because they could be wrong Sorry- no logic in that for me.

well, i see it as a black and white issue. there's no shades of grey inbetween. it's like asking if someone is pregnant.. either they are or they're not.. there's no "sort of' pregnant.

in the same way either the guys raped the girl, or they didn't.

now if they didn't why are they getting a 2 year sentence? and if they did, they should be punished to the fullest extent of the sharia law.

Did i ever say they deserved a soft scentence? I siad if its true they deserve a lot worse...how could anyone ever say such a crime is ok, if you worked in a rape crises centre you would know that false rape alegations happen all the time and i gave the google link to news so you could see cases that are currently going to court, but without evidence you cannot convict the rapist nor the rapee, which is why reporting it sooner is always better, yes there are untold ammounts of cases that are not reported but if you are saying that false rape allegations simply do not happen you are mistaken, and thats all im saying it does actually happen and more often then you might think, now i dont think that is a good thing any more than you do, and without any evidence its one word against another which is why they guys probably got a soft scentence in the first place. you took one of my comments and made it a large issue, the thing is the comment is correct it does go on...thats why it is so important to report the crime as early as possible.

boostah, you still don't get it. Three or four of us have pointed out errors in logic in your arguments, and we have also agreed with you on a few points that you still wish to argue about for some reason. What more can be added to this conversation?

eh hello you said yourself you dont deny that some women do it and i reserve the right to defend my opinion,i see its nice ganging up on someone alright, and by the way its only two of you and gab that had somthing to say about my comment, which if you would like to remind me of the errors i would be happily discuss with you but there isnt any your report that says 20% are unreported and mine that 40% are FRA's are simply that reports...so go argue with them not me. I see that its nice ganging up on someone alright...hellooo fight club transportter over here please....

^ touchy!

i was just commenting in general about my view on the sentence. it has no reference at all to your comments

terranova? i dont recall you making any comment at all ... ???

Don't get your knickers in a knot. Any half-wit can produce stats (which by the way you will know are skewed and ultimately flawed depending on the sample size and overall population-don't remind me of this when I use stats to back up one of my opinions!! ) by doing a google search-I'll produce some countering your claim and then you can come back with a few more sources to support your comments-I really don't want to jump on that carousel. I think what is simply and plainly being said that there are many cases of rape that are not reported, it is "estimated" that it is a certain percentage-as a woman I would say the estimate is conservative and the reasons for failing to report such crimes would be numerous and include retribution, embarassment, stigma, religious reasons etc It has been said by you that rapes are misreported, I quote " it happens a lot"-bad, bad choice of words in my opinion. I agree it happens, but alot compared to the entire picture??????I don't think so. The entire picture involves cases actually proved beyond a reasonable doubt, cases that are rape but evidence has been lacking, false reports and those that are not reported-we should all take rape seriously. Unfortunately rape involves trauma and because a person feels violated their natural instinct is to wash away the "dirt"-there goes your best evidence! I find the sentence particularly light in regard to the crime committed-you do that amount of time in Singapore for purse snatching-no BS!! Oh, BTW I am not having a go at you, just debating buddy!! Cheers!!

thats kewl, yeah ok a lot may be an overstatement but a lot more then most people think, certainly if 50% is true it is a lot but even in the Irish commision on handling rape cases it is stipulated quite clearly, but im not going down that road again but even the 20% they say are unreported I would even say that its a lot more than that so, es if you are doing the sums it certainly balances in favour of serious legitimate cases, unfortunatley it is the case that they are traumatised afterwards, ofcourse you would be but it is important to get that message out there the the sooner the better, and i highly agree every case should be taken very seriously. now lets go get a drink...

Ed, once again you aren't getting it. We agreed that yes, SOME women make false claims. It was your original assertion that MANY women lie about rape - THAT is what we disagree with.

You are not paying attention to detail. Approximately 20% of rapes ARE reported, that means 80% are UNREPORTED. 80% is a lot of unreported rapes, which means your stats that 41% of rapes are false claims is in fact not a good stat to say that the majority of women cry wolf about rape. What you can say with those stats is, "One study found that 41% of REPORTED rapes were false claims." My counter to you was that many studies have found that approximately 80% of rapes go unreported, which certainly means your stats need to be viewed in a new light, don't you think? GAB is correct about how stats can be used, but still, they tend to lend more credibility to a claim than if you just give an opinion.

Your other piece of false logic is that the men in this case who are sentenced to 2 years only got two years because the judge isn't sure if they really did it. That makes no sense. Either there was enough evidence to charge them, or there wasn't. If there wasn't, they'd have been set free.

I'm not a big fan of false logic. If you read the details about this case you'd have seen that the issue was not a woman falsely claiming that a guy she is in love with and who doesn't return her affections raped her. Any time the topic of rape comes up there is always one guy who has to say, "Yeah, well many women lie about it." I'm sure the woman gang raped by those guys would be really comforted to read such an opinion. You can post what you like, just be adult enough to accept the responses you get.

Basically your stats on false reports are only using the sample space of reports. Non-reporting would have to take the entire population (an impossible sample space unless you do a census) to be accurate, so using a small sample space for non-reported rapes concluded that approx X% (kanelli stated 80%) of rapes are unreported thus it is a fair and logical assumption that should this investigation go further and include a larger sample space the results would show significantly that many rapes go unreported or using your words "it happens alot". Kanelli is also correct in saying too, in this case, rape was proven-it is the sentence that does not fit the crime, that, in it itself, is another crime against the woman.

yes certainly if 80% go unreported then the odds are swung as i said to the majority being legitimate cases, i knew it had to be more than 20%. I still dont know what the hard evidence was of this particular case which by the way the way I have not looked into detail at all about. As for me being adult enough about a response, i think ive more than welcomed the debate and stood my ground over what i said was true, and there is still no falsities apart from what i already admited with Gab that "a lot" may be an overstatement considering so much are unreported also but a lot more than people think, is more apt to those who dont think it dosnt happen at all. *orders a guinness*

go on sure say it again "you still dont get it do you"...lol

GAB wrote:

i would not be suprised if a lot of rape cases are not genuine

That is an odd comment.

why is this odd, well some men are victims of flase rape thanks to DNA testing but some woman may have access to his sperm bank...

Obviously you agree it's odd.

boostah wrote:yes certainly if 80% go unreported then the odds are swung as i said to the majority being legitimate cases, i knew it had to be more than 20%. I still dont know what the hard evidence was of this particular case which by the way the way I have not looked into detail at all about. As for me being adult enough about a response, i think ive more than welcomed the debate and stood my ground over what i said was true, and there is still no falsities apart from what i already admited with Gab that "a lot" may be an overstatement considering so much are unreported also but a lot more than people think, is more apt to those who dont think it dosnt happen at all. *orders a guinness*

go on sure say it again "you still dont get it do you"...lol

No, Ed. You seem to be getting it now

GAB wrote:Obviously you agree it's odd.

no I didnt....

Your intelligence level must be at an all time low.

GAB wrote:Your intelligence level must be at an all time low.

if mine is low then urs must be waaYYYYYYYYYYYYY below the bar...

Only if I slipped and fell and cracked my head.

GAB wrote:Only if I slipped and fell and cracked my head.

well dont worry it's already cracked little more damage wont make much of a difference , u can get a new one in next life........