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shafique wrote: So, perhaps Islam has changed since the 60s?

Or could it be that the method of attack has more to do with weapons available and the perceived need to attack?

Red Chief wrote:

shafique wrote: So, perhaps Islam has changed since the 60s?

Or could it be that the method of attack has more to do with weapons available and the perceived need to attack?

Who gave them all that weapon including sophisticated one like Stingers? It was US who delivered all that weapon to Mojaheddins in Afghanistan and trained kind Moslems in many camps on the territory of Pakistan to fight against Soviet troops in 80s. After Russians left Afghanistan those Moslem militia transfered operation to India and now start expansion to US and Europe.

They use numerous brothers in faith in these countries, who are always ready to open the gates of the city from inner side.

Sow the wind and reap the whirlwind.

event horizon wrote:The fact that shafique needs to repeatedly bring up this Christian militia group (for the fourth time, by my count) shows how very few radical Christians there really are, when, on the other hand, I have no trouble on posting on actual terrorist attacks carried out by fanatical Muslims on a *daily* basis.

concerning Goldstein, in his case he was part of a US terrorist organisation - the JDL - who had carried out bombings against US citizens on US soil. He emigrated from the US and carried out a terrorist attack in Hebron. He received his religious indoctrination in NYC. Which shows that the Bible has been used (or misused) to justify terrorism. Now, given that the Bible is a much more violent book than the Quran - and given that historically much more violence has been carried out in the name of the Bible (notably against Jews), then don't all the criticisms being laid against Islam and the Quran apply even more to the Bible?

Logically, yes - but you'll easily come up with explanations that we shouldn't taint a whole religion because of the actions of the radical extreme or historic episodes. Muslims employ exactly the same arguments.

RobbyG wrote:Chief, fairy. The Soviets put people from the Communist party top echelons in nuclear reactor control positions in Tjernobyl without giving them nuclear university education or reactor control experience. Remember?

Claims he's innocent.

event horizon wrote:Hey rob, have you gotten around to explaining why Mr Shahzad was attending an Islamic terror camp if he wasn't particularly religious and if Islam 'had nothing to do with the attack' ?

I know that you don't believe shafique's lame arguments, but I would like to hear some pretty impressive mental gymnastics.

Shafique is currently (on the other thread) copy-pasting his responses without elaborating any further and ignoring the actual questions/points raised.

We'll see how he tries to explain Shahzad's own statement that he had taken on the cause of al-Qaeda and Islam. Oh, and that he was inspired by religious radical cleric, Anwar Al-Awlaki.

But remember...

...Islam had nothing to do with the attack.

Red Chief wrote:

RobbyG wrote:Chief, fairy. The Soviets put people from the Communist party top echelons in nuclear reactor control positions in Tjernobyl without giving them nuclear university education or reactor control experience. Remember?

Claims he's innocent.

Your spelling of that weird place in Ukraine shows how little you know about the situation there, probably as little as situation with DEWA in Dubai.

I have no idea why you raise this issue in this topic as there has been no evidence that Muslim militia were involved. Sir Shafique... oh sorry Mr. Chuck (my bad) will be definitely not happy with that.

The most commonly repeated claims about Muslims are that “everyone knows” that most or all terrorists are Muslims, and there are no Christian and no Jewish terrorists (or terrorists of any other religious stripe), and that Muslims are inherently violent.

Everyone also knows that Muslims are not equivalent to real Americans,
that they are the enemy within, and a fifth column,
that good Muslims can’t be good Americans,
that they are not a part of our American heritage,
that they are all militant,
that Islam makes Muslims “backward”,
that Muslims have made no contribution to the West,
that Islam is “of the devil”,
a Crescent menace,
and an “evil encroaching on the United States”, and not a religion.

Everyone knows that this is a Christian nation,
which everyone knows the Muslims are trying to take over,
starting with getting an Eid stamp which is the first step towards shariah law, and by purposefully having more children than others to increase their numbers.

Everyone knows that Muslims have no respect for the Constitution.

Everyone knows that Muslims are given a pass by the elite media.

It’s “us versus them”.

They don’t speak out against extremism or terrorism, and even those Muslims who do speak up or seem moderate are simply lying or practicing taqiyyah.

The problem is that what “everyone knows” is wrong. These self-righteous and incorrect statements are usually followed by a demand that the Muslim community do something about whatever is the false flag of the day or face the inevitable consequences.

I have told you before some time ago, that most conflicts are all related to religion and convictions in my assessment of wars and horror portrayed on this globe.

We should put an end to these mad martyr-like fookers and teach them how to think rationally.

Berrin wrote:

I have told you before some time ago, that most conflicts are all related to religion and convictions in my assessment of wars and horror portrayed on this globe.

Not really, the worldview in all civilizations before modern times came from religion. The wars and horror portrayed on this globe is the part of uncontrollable greed and selfishness came with advancement in technology/science, as in the same case of terminator seed producers . Some unfortunate people have to pay the price of keeping the share holders happy. Now if those share holders based their opinion on religion, do you think the secularist paradigm a pseudo-religion could take over as a new world view end destroy peoples life while it also claims that it contributes..

The world is ours, but you just proved that you won't identify progress as it is

Berrin wrote:Western philosophy is now at a dead end. Even Heidegger said, Western philosophy ends with me. There is a philosophical crisis and a religious crisis as a result of that.

Berrin wrote:What is this all got to do with your boasterizm?

RobbyG wrote:Well, besides the fact that Shahzad went to a Taliban/Al Qaida training camp in Waziristan, Paki where they preach and teach bombs for 72 virgins...hm?

RobbyG wrote:The region is quite known for its wonderful clerics ...

shafique wrote:Indeed, Islam had nothing to with the Tim McVeigh emulation attempt. I'm still waiting to hear what 'martyrdom' indoctrination had to do with this attack on his fellow Americans? If he was indoctrinated by Al Qaeda - it didn't work too well did it. At least the numpty Richard Reid and the pants bomber tried to blow themselves up (and would have been candidates for Darwin awards had they not been trying to kill others as well).

And RC has a good point - the CIA were instrumental in helping Al Qaeda tool up and train up.
In fact, anyone remember Rambo 3 when at the end the Taliban come and save Rambo, or that James Bond movie with Dalton, which had Art Malik as the 'noble' Taliban saviour. (Back then they were labelled 'Mujahedeen' and were the good guys - the Russians were the baddies then.. )

But hey, when proof is missing that Islam is to blame - why not just let 'feelings' and Bible camp prejudices dictate the 'facts'? I

Cheers,
Shafique

Haidegger is not the first or last one who said that. If you don't know anybody else it does not mean that nobody exists. Jacques Derrida was definitely one of them and lived after Martin Heidegger.

Philosophy and Religion have nothing in common.

Latter say what is the truth but the former what is not the truth but myth. In this terms Philosophy is more close to science.

“Please regard me as a Mohammedan…”

The great Russian writer and thinker who contributed a lot to the Russian literature and history is more famous as a writer, his philosophical views and works that reflect his ideas of God, soul, knowledge, love, the meaning of life, etc. are much less known.

The continuing quest for the meaning of life, the moral ideal, the covert general regularities of existence as well as his spiritual and social criticism run through all his creative work. Since the 1870-ies he pays more and more attention to the subjects of death, sin, penance, and moral revival.

His extraordinary way of thinking was in most cases incomprehensible to the Russian society of those days.

He was excommunicated and committed to anathema, his friends and acquaintances turned away from him. In 1910, at the age of 81, Lev Tolstoy left home and died on the way to the station “Astapovo”.

Why was the end of his life so sad and where was he going after leaving home? Perhaps, some of his letters will throw light upon it.

Here is what he wrote about the Church:

“The world was doing what it wished to do and was letting the Church keep pace with it providing as good explanations of the meaning of life as it could possibly think of. The world was setting its own mode of life which was entirely different form the teaching of Christ, and the Church was inventing allegories which would suggest that people who violated the law of Christ lived in keeping with it. As a result, the world started living the life which was worse than that of pagans, and the Church came to approve of it. Moreover, it claimed that such life was what the teaching of Christ consists in”.

Yasnaya Polyana, March, 1909

The Russian woman who married the Muslim E. Vekilov, wrote to Tolstoy that her sons wanted to convert to Islam, and asked for his advice. This is what the writer answered her:

“As far as the preference of Mohammedanism to Orthodoxy is concerned…, I can fully sympathize with such conversion. To say this might be strange for me who values the Christian ideals and the teaching of Christ in their pure sense more that anything else, I do not doubt that Islam in its outer form stands higher than the Orthodox Church. Therefore, if a person is given only two choices: to adhere to the Orthodox Church or Islam, any sensible person will not hesitate about his choice, and anyone will prefer Islam with its acceptance of one tenet, single God and His Prophet instead such complex and incomprehensible things in theology as the Trinity, redemption, sacraments, the saints and their images, and complicated services…”

Yasnaya Polyana, March, 15th, 1909

We can adduce another letter of his which explains his world outlook which formed as a result of his long painful search for the truth.

“I would be very glad if you were of the same faith with me. Just try to understand what my life is. Any success in life- wealth, honour, glory- I don’t have these. My friends, even my family are turning away from me.

Some- liberals and aesthetes- consider me to be mad or weak- minded like Gogol; others- revolutionaries and radicals- consider me to be a mystic and a man who talks too much; the officials consider me to be a malicious revolutionary; the Orthodox consider me to be a devil.

I confess that it is hard for me… And therefore, please, regard me as a kind Mohammedan, and all will be fine”.

Yasnaya Polyana, April, 1884

event horizon wrote:Too bad the Taliban didn't exist until the early nineties and the facts do not show that the CIA helped al-Qaeda or had any direct connection with the Afghan Arabs (who were not necessarily al-Qaeda, in any event).