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I read this yesterday in the National.

Now it's an Emirati girl, not an expat.

The strangest thing is it says the men are charged with rape and the girl is charged with out-of-wedlock se x.

If it's a rape charge, how could it also be an illegal se x chrage???


Woman who reported rape is charged with illegal se x

Marten Youssef and Hassan Hassan

• Last Updated: May 18. 2010 12:09AM UAE / May 17. 2010 8:09PM GMT

ABU DHABI // An 18-year-old Emirati woman has been charged with having se x outside of wedlock after reporting that she was raped by six men, Abu Dhabi’s Criminal Court was told yesterday.

The men, only two of whom were in court yesterday, are charged with raping LH in the back seat of one of the defendant’s vehicles. Both men pleaded not guilty, while L H, who has been taken into custody, also pleaded not guilty to the charges against her.

The woman and one of her male Emirati friends, HA, went for a drive in his vehicle on May 2, prosecutors said. The charges allege that because she had agreed to be in the car, the two had, therefore, met to have sex. According to court records, HA, 19, called five of his friends – four Emiratis and one Iraqi – and invited them to join him.

Prosecutors said that after HA and the woman had sex in an unknown location in Abu Dhabi, the five men met up with them. At that point, the charges say, the men all raped her in HA’s car.

The woman later contacted police and said she had been raped by six men, including HA. It is not known when she reported the attack.

The Abu Dhabi Judicial Department Forensic Unit declined to discuss whether the woman had been examined after the incident for evidence of rape.

HA has been charged with rape. The only other defendant in court, an Emirati with the same initials, was also charged with rape. The other four men are being tried in their absence.

The woman has been in custody since she reported the incident. She and the two defendants in court yesterday are being held without bail.

Chief Justice Saeed Abdul Basser twice asked her: “Did you have se x with these men?”

“No,” she replied.

It was unclear whether the judge was referring to consensual se x or rape.

The woman was not represented by a lawyer and no members of her family were in court yesterday.

All of the defendants are older than 18 and are being tried as adults.

myoussef@thenational.ae
hhassan@thenational.ae

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll ... 79850/1010

From what I have read about it in other newspapers is that the girl first had, according to the prosecuters, voluntary s.ex with her lover in a car. Afterwards he called his friends and collectively gangbang raped her.

Flying Dutchman wrote:From what I have read about it in other newspapers is that the girl first had, according to the prosecuters, voluntary s.ex with her lover in a car. Afterwards he called his friends and collectively gangbang raped her.

Yes "according to the prosecutors". Just how would they know? Oh, wait!! The boyfriend said so.

I understand that they didn't use a rape kit to determine if she was indeed raped by multiple men. There was no mention of her family being present in court. What a dirty deal she's getting. Even if she did have voluntary s.e.x. with the boyfriend, that should not be used as an excuse to disregard the fact that she was gang raped.

What I don't get is that when a woman, especially an Emirati, is raped somehow it turns out to have been voluntary s.e.x. Recently there was another story about an Emirati woman who filed a police report that she was raped and somehow it was "determined" that she wasn't raped because she had s.e.x. voluntarily.

But when there is a case of anywhere from one to several laborers raping another laborer, it's called raped!!

If she had consensual s.ex with the boyfriend as widely reported, she broke the law and should be charged. Sorry but thats the law.
I suspect that she may have said that all six raped her to avoid being charged.
5 of the men are being charged with rape but will most likely get off lightly.
As for the boyfriend, no mention if he will be charged with illegal s.ex, but you can hardly charge a guy if you yourself and all of your friends have done it many times, probably with a hooker.

benwj wrote:If she had consensual s.ex with the boyfriend as widely reported, she broke the law and should be charged. Sorry but thats the law.
I suspect that she may have said that all six raped her to avoid being charged.
5 of the men are being charged with rape but will most likely get off lightly.
As for the boyfriend, no mention if he will be charged with illegal s.ex, but you can hardly charge a guy if you yourself and all of your friends have done it many times, probably with a hooker.

So if a guy has s.ex with a hooker, it is not illegal s.ex?

benwj wrote:If she had consensual s.ex with the boyfriend as widely reported, she broke the law and should be charged. Sorry but thats the law.
I suspect that she may have said that all six raped her to avoid being charged.
5 of the men are being charged with rape but will most likely get off lightly.
As for the boyfriend, no mention if he will be charged with illegal s.ex, but you can hardly charge a guy if you yourself and all of your friends have done it many times, probably with a hooker.

Key word here is "IF". The widely reported statement that it was consensual was based on what? What you "SUSPECT" is pretty much the same mentality being used by the prosecutor. No proof, but if the prosecutor says it happened, then it happened. Five charged: get off lightly? you mean get off altogether!!!

Let's split this up.

(1) Consensual s.e.x. Let's say it was consensual. OK, she broke the law and will face a stiff penalty for that.
(2) Rape. Because her first encounter was consensual, then the fact that she was gang raped is now a moot point?

What do you think the bigger crime is? She had consensual s.e.x. or that she was gang raped?

Don't dust your stones off so quickly.

BB, dont waste your time, benwj is worthless, something between a simian and a fanatic dressed in a robe for whom a woman is nothing but a s.ex toy.

benwj wrote:If she had consensual s.ex with the boyfriend as widely reported, she broke the law and should be charged. Sorry but thats the law.
.

Isnt the law also that s.. with a hooker is wrong ?

Does the law specify anywhere that men fornicating is less criminal than women doing the same ?

Genuine question - is the punishment for rape the same as for fornication under UAE law?

And BR's question above - isn't the punishment for men and women for fornication the same under UAE law?


IF the lady had broken the law and fornicated voluntarily, this should not lessen the crime and prosecution of the subsequent rape. The article says the rapists are being charged - so it seems that the system is working (or am I missing something here?)

I hope justice will be done when all the facts are brought out in court.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Genuine question - is the punishment for rape the same as for fornication under UAE law?

And BR's question above - isn't the punishment for men and women for fornication the same under UAE law?


IF the lady had broken the law and fornicated voluntarily, this should not lessen the crime and prosecution of the subsequent rape. The article says the rapists are being charged - so it seems that the system is working (or am I missing something here?)

I hope justice will be done when all the facts are brought out in court.

Cheers,
Shafique

LOL. Shaf, you know how the "justice" system works when it comes to male/female locals. Where is her justice? If they could stone her they would. As for the guys - house arrest (translates into can't leave Dubai) for 3 months???

I do know indeed - but that's why I wrote my last line.

That said - reading the thread title, I expected the article to say that the rapists had not been charged - but I really can't see what the prosecutors have done wrong here (given what the law of the UAE currently is).

I don't know what the law says about punishment - hence the question, and if indeed the rapists get off more lightly than the lady and boyfriend (for the first 'crime') then justice will not have been done.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:...but I really can't see what the prosecutors have done wrong here (given what the law of the UAE currently is).

Cheers,
Shafique

Errr, they came to the conclusion that is was consensual based on........??? Where's the proof!!!

Bora - are you saying you know that the prosecutors have brought a baseless case of fornication before the courts?

You must have more information than I do - I couldn't make that determination based on what I've read above.

Whether the lady is found guilty or not should be based on evidence.. as I said, I hope justice is done for all crimes committed (or not committed)

Cheers,
Shafique

Where's the proof!!!

Well I haven't read the full story but, in islam as you know, a woman can not be left alone with a non-mahrem without an immediate family or a female company at least. In this case, If she gets raped alone, I guess thats interpreated as she was willing to take the risk of danger coming from strangers, therefore voluntary sex. Obviously when they say voluntary sex, it's not like the one you agree to with husband in bed.

Berrin wrote:

Where's the proof!!!

Well I haven't read the full story but, in islam as you know, a woman can not be left alone with a non-mahrem without an immediate family or a female company at least. In this case, If she gets raped alone, I guess thats interpreated as she was willing to take the risk of danger coming from strangers, therefore voluntary love. Obviously when they say voluntary love, it's not like the one you agree to with husband in bed.

Lashes for the adulterers, right???

Lashes and stonning! both!

^

Both punishments, or all punishments to all parties?

Lashes for the adulterers, right???
Lashes and stonning! both!

^^fabulous, at least you agree with God for once!

melika969 wrote:Lashes and stonning! both!

Isn't that for adultery though? Neither were married, so wouldn't count.

Akasha wrote:

melika969 wrote:Lashes and stonning! both!

Isn't that for adultery though? Neither were married, so wouldn't count.

Fornicators dont get lashed?

shafique wrote:^

Both punishments, or all punishments to all parties?

Isn't that for adultery though? Neither were married, so wouldn't count.

It is for Adultery. It is surprisingly different if they are young or old, for old , the punishment is 100 lashes and then stonning. For young, it is stoning without lashes.

Fornicators dont get lashed?

the got lashes,but no stonning. for first three times, each time 100 lashes. The fourth time, execution.

They interpreted this punishments from Hadith, stonning is not in Quran indeed.

^^fabulous, at least you agree with God for once!

Dear Genious! I did not agree with these barbarian rules, I just clarified what are the punishments for illegal se.x in sharia!

here we have the newly religious fanatic, pontificating!

shafique wrote:Bora - are you saying you know that the prosecutors have brought a baseless case of fornication before the courts?

You must have more information than I do - I couldn't make that determination based on what I've read above.

Whether the lady is found guilty or not should be based on evidence.. as I said, I hope justice is done for all crimes committed (or not committed)

Cheers,
Shafique

I have as much info as you Shaf; I was pointing out the obvious. As as you state: .......should be based on evidence. Where's the proof? The prosecutor based his findings on what?? There was no mention of her admitting to any consensual s.e.x., or is that just a minor detail that is being withheld?

I agree with you Bora - if there is no proof or reasonable grounds for a prosecution of a crime, then it would be against justice for a prosecution for the crime to begin. However, I didn't see anything in the article that led me to believe that the prosecutors weren't following procedures.

I'll happily join you in condemning the prosecutors if it is shown they started a prosecution without any basis - and certainly will condemn any judgement that is unjust. However, to do so without seeing any evidence (either one way or other) is a bit of strange logic (to me).

The rapists have been charged - so the crime of rape is being taken seirously and being investigated. There appears to be a prima facie case for fornication (the article does not say she was kidnapped, so perhaps fornication is a crime that did happen and was admitted to? I don't know. More likely, the boy is saying she consented - and hence incriminating himself and girl in the crime of fornication.)

As I said before - I hope justice is done.

Cheers,
Shafique

were any of u guys in the courtroom? We dont know what happened in the courtroom and we dont know what evidence was and wasnt present etc etc

so why waste 10 minutes of your life arguing about what should and shouldnt be done? thats why we have judges, lawyers in every country. They will decide what will happen based on the evidence. Dont think that what 7days is always TRUE, read the HEADLINE "emirate Woman reported Rape but charged with illegal sex"

If you were walking past a shop and saw a headline, wouldnt you purchase a copy? You would wouldnt ya??
they do it to sell papers and they are doing a good job. They dont care about what evidence was or wasnt provided etc etc all they care about is the sale of the newspaper.

GET ON WITH IT guys

Thank you Professor Magoo for sharing your wisdom. The only thing "sensational" about this case is how she is a victim - not once, but twice. It seems that newspapers and the court/justice system do have something in common: they don't care about what evidence was or wasn't provided.............

Move along now boy.

Bora, let me play devil's advocate for one minute.

What if it transpires that the lady had agreed to have a 6 way party, and later changed her mind when, say the boyfriend announced he was going to marry a virgin, and this was her way of punishing him?

I have absolutely no evidence that this was the case, but then again, I have no evidence that it wasn't either. Hence my question to you. Would the court/prosectors etc be right to charge her at least for the fornication and let the evidence etc speak in court?

Cheers,
Shafique

Judges?

From previous example, I would say most of them here are not qualified to judge a flower show, let alone a case of gang rape!

If she brought a complaint (there is a written evidential statement supplied with that) it is a matter of record. The police are then duty bound to:

a) ensure she undergoes a full medical examination to back up her claim and ensure she has access to rape counselling or is being cared for by her family
b) examine the scene of the alleged crime for any forensic evidence
c) interview the defendant(s) and take a statement to establish justly accusation
d) corroborate any statement from the defendant(s) and the plaintiff by taking any witness statements that support/deny their claims. This should normally be done within 24 hours under the tenets of Habeus Corpus or the police would need to apply to the court for an extension of custody until investigations can be completed.
e) If the evidence is sufficiently concrete and not circumstantial, bring a case against the defendant(s) for the crime committed or against the plaintiff for false claim and wasting police time if it is found that she has been making it up.
f) formally arrest and detain the party deemed guilty and press charges to the court through the public prosecution service, giving the defendant(s) time and access to a lawyer in order to prepare a defense.

You REALLY think this is the process that has been followed here?

No.

She cries rape. The cops arrest the accused and throw them in an overcrowded cell without access to any legal representation or communication and leave them to rot there until they get the case to the Public Prosecutor. No investigation. No SOCO report. No accurate and impartial forensic test. Guilty until proven Innocent.

She was probably examined by an incompetent and in-experienced medical examiner, who will establish that there has been evidence of se xual activity, as it is fairly obvious even a blind man could tell, and some policeman at the station decides that she must have been willing so slings an illegal intercourse case in for good measure. Whatever the outcome, the police get a positive statistic for a 'crime solved' and someone ends up either being thrashed to within an inch of their lives and curling up in an overcrowded foetid cell for the next few years, or walking away smelling of rose water and free to continue their lives.

Sorry.

'Justice' system in the UAE just does not exist. It is someone telling you that, despite all the evidence to the contrary; you are guilty.
When you ask why? they say
'Just is!'

K-Wrap!



Knight

Dubai Knight wrote:Judges?

From previous example, I would say most of them here are not qualified to judge a flower show, let alone a case of gang rape!

If she brought a complaint (there is a written evidential statement supplied with that) it is a matter of record. The police are then duty bound to:

a) ensure she undergoes a full medical examination to back up her claim and ensure she has access to rape counselling or is being cared for by her family
b) examine the scene of the alleged crime for any forensic evidence
c) interview the defendant(s) and take a statement to establish justly accusation
d) corroborate any statement from the defendant(s) and the plaintiff by taking any witness statements that support/deny their claims. This should normally be done within 24 hours under the tenets of Habeus Corpus or the police would need to apply to the court for an extension of custody until investigations can be completed.
e) If the evidence is sufficiently concrete and not circumstantial, bring a case against the defendant(s) for the crime committed or against the plaintiff for false claim and wasting police time if it is found that she has been making it up.
f) formally arrest and detain the party deemed guilty and press charges to the court through the public prosecution service, giving the defendant(s) time and access to a lawyer in order to prepare a defense.

You REALLY think this is the process that has been followed here?

No.

She cries rape. The cops arrest the accused and throw them in an overcrowded cell without access to any legal representation or communication and leave them to rot there until they get the case to the Public Prosecutor. No investigation. No SOCO report. No accurate and impartial forensic test. Guilty until proven Innocent.

She was probably examined by an incompetent and in-experienced medical examiner, who will establish that there has been evidence of se xual activity, as it is fairly obvious even a blind man could tell, and some policeman at the station decides that she must have been willing so slings an illegal intercourse case in for good measure. Whatever the outcome, the police get a positive statistic for a 'crime solved' and someone ends up either being thrashed to within an inch of their lives and curling up in an overcrowded foetid cell for the next few years, or walking away smelling of rose water and free to continue their lives.

Sorry.

'Justice' system in the UAE just does not exist. It is someone telling you that, despite all the evidence to the contrary; you are guilty.
When you ask why? they say
'Just is!'

K-Wrap!



Knight

sorry knight, but not everyone has the privileages of going into Dubai HQ and see their forensic setup!! However I was because I happen to be their supplier. ANd what we supply is technology which you wouldnt understand unless it was your field of expertise. I dont want to boast here what I do, but I feel I should because you have made the assumptions that Dubai police doesnt do what it should do i.e investigate.

Trust me, that there is technology out there which can determine anything i.e if person is telling a truth, a person in this case was raped or not or even. The technology can even find small particles of human skin in your nail!!

so parts a) & b) are handled by Dubai police and they are done to the same quality as done in scotland yard!

thats why i am saying, we dont know what evidence was presented, therefore we cant really comment here!!

Hey DK, isn't UAE a sharia lawed country?
The law in islam says that if you are a female you cannot be left alone with a non-mahram male..
That's as simple and as preventive as that..
Why should the police be bothered to search for non decisive evidences for weeks if not for months..
Her raper cannot be her witness right? To me the malicious guys are using the sharia laws to their advantage..Why don't the ladies realise this? I am sorry for her.