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event horizon wrote:Dubai Knight must be hanging around with too many Muslims. Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and pretty much everyone else do not 'put religion as the first thing on their life agenda'.

You kidding me? All the afore mentioned put religion first except maybe Christians. It all boils down to how feasible religion is for them. Give them food, money and a shelter and see how profoundly stronger their religion gets.

Well, as I said, it's not from my experience.

And what are your experiences that we don't have? Maybe we should put you beside rapture lovers before you make up your mind..

-- Thu May 20, 2010 11:39 am --

Is anyone else tired of shafique being the final authority of what Islam supposedly teaches?

Eh will you ever understand what it takes to be a prophet..Maybe you'll read this and take one lesson and tell us what it is...
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/670/

Dubai Knight wrote:

rudeboy wrote:can someone tell me if the cartoons which the nazis used in their propoganda against the jews, were or werent anti semitic?

Well there are people here who would claim they were not as the Zionist movement probably collaborated with the Nazi party to create them.

I simple terms, they were 100% anti-semitic.



Knight

lets not argue with whether hollocast existed or didnt exist, or whether the jews collaborated with the nazis or they didnt!! lets stick to the discussion here which is the cartoon.

So i guess we can all agree that anti-jews cartoon by the Nazis were anti-semitic.

Why were they anti-semitic in your opinion? something to do with the star? something to do with how they look? something to do with their culture? something to do with how greedy they were? what was so anti-semitic about those cartoons?

-- Thu May 20, 2010 4:17 pm --

"Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is prejudice against or hostility towards Semitic peoples, often rooted in hatred of their ethnic background, culture, and/or religion"

Definition from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semit ... _and_usage

so its basically an attack or "rooted in hatred of their ethnic background, culture and/or religion".

now the nazis rooted this hatred by their propoganda. Distributing pamplets, and using the radio and even drawing cartoons of the jews in their newspapers, which basically made FUN of their culture, looks and religion.

So how is drawing a cartoon of Muhammad (pbuh) not seen as anti-semitic? Ok it might seem ok to some europeans or westerners that its only a cartoon i.e a picture on a paper, it has no meaning whatsoever, it was done for FUN. But didnt the Nazis and the Germans thought the same? That the cartoons of jews at THAT time were just done for fun and we all know what it all led to right?

Is not drawing a cartoon going to create hatred amongst muslims and non muslims? Is not that the purpose of anti-semitic material? I.e to create HATRED?

If you think, that cartoons of the jewish ppl and of the star (a religious icon for the jews) was anti-semitic than why isnt drawing a cartoon of muhammad (pbuh) not anti-semitic?

Didnt the germans and the nazis use their "FREEDOM" of speech when they created cartoons against jews?

so heres what I suggest:

1) ppl who think that these cartoons are just a piece of paper and has no meanings, should think again. Because thats exactly what the Germans thought when the Nazis came in power. They had their eyes closed and were taken for a ride by Hitler.

2) If you think that jews cartoons were anti-semitic than you have to realize that drawing cartoons of Muhammad (pbuh) is not going to ease the current tension between muslims and non-muslims living in Europe. But instead its going to make things worse. So if jews cartoons were anti-semitic than a leader from the EU should declare that such acts are only spreading anti-semitic feelings.

3) If you think that its all nonsense, than kindly declare that the nazi cartoons of the jews was all a NONSENSE as well!!

Its a shame that human beings have not or do not learn anything from HISTORY.

Mein Kempf is banned in Europe yet the Quraanic Verse is free for everyone to read.

If the Quraanic Verse is free for everyone to read, than why shouldnt the Mein Kempf be allowed to be read in schools, universities across EUROPE?

Europe has double standards. The Western world has double standards when it comes to their so called "foreign" policy. When someone commits a crime on them, its labelled as a act of terroism against MANKIND.

What about the MANKIND living in Palestine? Kashmir? Checyneya?

If the jews want their own country than give the kashmiris and checyneyans their own country as well

Sieg Heil goodboy, Sieg Heil goodboy...

sorry i meant the satanic verses not the quraanic verses its thursday

I'm not understanding how drawing satirical pictures of a historical figure is comparable to cartoons that 'demonized' an entire group of people?

In any event, what is the racial slur of depicting Muhammad with a dog's body?

LoL.

I'm not understanding how drawing satirical pictures of a historical figure is comparable to cartoons that 'demonized' an entire group of people?

Hey boy they were meant to be satirical not demonical..

In any event, what is the racial slur of depicting Muhammad with a dog's body?

Ooo noo, honour protection is not taught in christianity? is it not?
the score: Islam=1 - Christianity=0

rudeboy wrote:
Mein Kempf is banned in Europe yet the Quraanic Verse is free for everyone to read.

No its not!

Mein Kampf is readily available and actually studied extensively in universities in Europe and the US.

However, you try and buy a copy of 'The Seven Pillars of Wisdom' by T.E. Lawrence in the UAE! Its on the banned list and yet is a book that glorifies and extolls the virtues of the Arab world.



Knight

Is Seven pillars really banned? Easily available on the web though - I have a copy, but haven't read it all yet.

Have read (or heard on documentaries) the more riske bits about the 'bonding' in the desert.

Cheers,
Shafique

annaemilia wrote:Sweden is a secular and democratic country with a statutory expression. There is nothing that says that a statement, a work of art or other cultural product must be good, tasty, genuine, interesting, fun or whatever it may be to be protected by freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech has well-defined borders and the borders are determined by the elected democratic institutions. Not by angry mobs. Not the religious prelates in other countries.

It does not matter what is said the Quran, Bible or Torah. These acts have nothing to do whatsoever with the Swedish legislation. Those who threaten anyone with violence, whatever the cause is a criminal. Criminal.

It doesn't work to build a society in a contest of denigration. It is impossible to build an open, free society, with preventing anyone who might perceive as offensive from expressing themselves.

I am personally offended by a lot of messages. Right Christian vulgar anti-abortion rhetoric. Ill-disguised religious homophobia. The fact that we could have a fascist party in parliament. A lot of things in our society make me sick. But I'll have to find strategies to live my life anyway. Am I inexplicably upset about something I can debate with others, work politically or otherwise attempting to influence public opinion.

I am entitled to my feelings, but if I threaten to hurt or kill someone for his opinions, I shall be detained by police and brought before the court. There is no gray zone.

There is nothing in the Muslim stories that make them unique. My Views and narratives are equally valid. My feelings and attitudes are just as real. There is no question as to whether Lars Vilks art is offensive or not. Certain types of Islam is offensive for a lot of people. The point is that in an open society we must live with the paradox.

And once again:

To try to prevent anyone from exercising their right to express their views freely is a crime. Period.

Next to DK, Annemilia is the only one who makes full sense on this topic.

The violent and ideologic reaction of the muslims over a cartoon session is just absurd. They have no clue about long standing European values.

Just look at that video and their violent reaction. Too sick for words.

-- 21 May 2010, 02:11 --

Dubai Knight wrote:

rudeboy wrote:
Mein Kempf is banned in Europe yet the Quraanic Verse is free for everyone to read.

No its not!

Mein Kampf is readily available and actually studied extensively in universities in Europe and the US.

However, you try and buy a copy of 'The Seven Pillars of Wisdom' by T.E. Lawrence in the UAE! Its on the banned list and yet is a book that glorifies and extolls the virtues of the Arab world.



Knight

Small correction. Mein Kampf is available for study purposes on request.
However, it is not allowed for the general public to obtain legal copies in most nations in Europe. Will probably be allowed for sale after the generational shift is long complete.

RobbyG wrote:Small correction. Mein Kampf is available for study purposes on request.
However, it is not allowed for the general public to obtain legal copies in most nations in Europe. Will probably be allowed for sale after the generational shift is long complete.

You wanna borrow my copy?

I can also highly recommend Ian Kershaw's two part definitive biography of Hitler. "1889 - 1936 Hubris" and "1936 - 1945 Nemesis". Well researched and written with access to the official diaries and meeting minutes of many prominent members of the Reich and Wermacht. It paints a picture of a powerful tyrant and despot, yet also clarifies the roles and reasons behind some of the entourage surrounding him. Be prepared for a long read!



Knight

I have it too. Just stating the official policy