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... The Prophet Mohammed?

why do you care ?

They keep asking what we think of Jesus.... Time to ask them what they think of the Last of the Prophets of God.

I can only speak for myself Liban, but i actually have no real opinion. If i were attempt to generalise i would also say that would also go for the majority of Christians here in the UK and possibly elsewhere.

For me to explain this without it being misinterpreted, is not easy because you would have to understand the differences between say your average Brit and say the average Muslim. Sadly Liban, i do not think you do. I myself admit to not understanding people lwith views like you.

Religion here in the UK is really only for a minority of people. That is not too say we dont believe in God or Jesus, it just doesn't feature much in our lives.

Very few people here nowadays go to Church, indeed, many are closing down due to lack of attendance.

As for your question re Mohammed. I personally have learnt a great deal from this forum, and i have learnt from people like Shaf, how closely related our religions are. For a lot of us, most of our knowledge is taught and learnt at school. Many of us associate the common bible stories, like the parting of the red sea Moses etc etc, the birth of Jesus and so on.

My own humble opinion is that, in terms of the differential in how the average muslim and the average christian (UK) view their faith and committed to their religion are, in reality, many many miles apart.

One thing i really cant get my head around is the issue of prayers etc 5 times a day etc. I cant believe God selects on the basis of did he/she go to prayer 5 times a day. My personal belief is that as long as you lead an honest and good life and do no harm to anyone, then that is sufficient.

People like myself like to learn and understand. We may not neccessarily agree with it, but at least it is good to have that opinion, with the knowledge of the facts, explained in a factual way.

A lot of disagreements certainly within this forum, of which you and i Liban have been a part on occasions, have probably been due to the lack of knowledge and understanding of each others religious beliefs.

If i may give one example.

It is a fact that the average Brit or a someone of a faith other than muslim find it hard to come to terms with, or understand the obsession, that religion plays its part with individuals. The commitment of say a terrorist willing to kill himself and others, is something that is totally allien to the vast majority of us. I personally cannot understand how anyone could consider taking thier own life for any cause, let alone in the name of ......whoever. Even the fact they may have a wife and children doesnt seem matter in some cases.

Please dont take my post as a means of intentionally wanting to start a huge religious argument off etc. I merely wanted to explain to you how I view religion generally.

If i have not explained things very well, or you need a clarification etc, i would be more than happy to do so.

Please do not view this as a negative post.

Thankyou arniegang.

I think you are incorrect in your thinking of me personally, but that is another matter.

As for our actions as Muslims, we do the prayer 5 times a day not because we are bad people if we do not but because we follow the example of the Prophet Mohammed. The Prophet is the ideal version of what a human should be, he is the ultimate human being, the most pure, the most clean, the most accepting, etc... the most of every positive thing man can have and then some.

So we follow not only what God Taught through His Messanger but also how His Messanger behaved. What he did, where he went. He led a small group of beleivers into a victory over Koraish paganism. He did it all through good deeds, pure thought, and of course devine guidance. Through this guidance he acted and performed many tasks. We do what our Prophet did and that is why for example we pray 5 times a day. For God there is nothing we must not do. We are less than ants to God and we are nothing without Him. Praise be onto him.

We owe our very existance to God and to His Power. If not for him, we would not be here today. If not for him, we would have no air to breath, water to drink, food to eat, etc.... I thank him for everything I have every day. I ask for his forgiveness during every prayer. I ask him to have mercy and to bless my family and all who are close to me before I ask for myself.

What He asks from us is beyond tiny compared to what he gave us.

Now for the taking ones life. Jihad is a term you all have heard over and over again. The media makes it sound like a holy war. It is not that simple. Jihad is the act of self cleansing. Jihad first starts in ones heart to remove impurity and dirty thoughts. Only when one is 110% pure and of good heart, soul and intentions can Jihad be taken to the next level if need be.

In Islam, during war against the Islamic Umma, Jihad is permitted againsty those who hurt us and not the innocents. Many Muslims miss out on that point because of education. Education, good education is key in Islam. You cannot be a Muslim if you are uneducated. Did you know, that The Prophet told his educated POWs during wars back in the day, that "for every 10 Muslim you teach to read and give other knowledge to, you get your freedom". So uneducated Muslims, understand Jihad to be killing of all infidels no matter what. But they cannot do so. You cannot even have an external Jihad in that case because internally you are not well learned (educated), which is a pre-requisite for Jihad.

To get back to another point, external Jihad is sanctionned in Islam only when it is to attack your agressor. The Prophet said, attack those who attack you first. BUT, be wary of the wrath of God should you kill one animal, uproot one tree, step on one flower, destroy any property, rape or kill or touch a woman or child or non-combattant for doing so are the acts of impure Muslims not worthy of the name Islam.

I know I went all over the place, but thought you wanted to know

Salam.

Thanks Liban for your reply and respect.

I understand more now thank you, but i have some questions.

What is considered about a muslim that does not pray 5 times etc. Is he or she thought of in the same way that one who does?

Are there any consequences?

cheers

arniegang wrote:Thanks Liban for your reply and respect.

I understand more now thank you, but i have some questions.

What is considered about a muslim that does not pray 5 times etc. Is he or she thought of in the same way that one who does?

Are there any consequences?

cheers

Welcome

Well, in Islam, we cannot focus on a person's prayers as the basis of be good or bad or going into heaven. I mean, lets say a Muslim prostitute (yes they exist) prays 5 times a day, is she a good person? No she broke one of the 10 commandments, let alone Islamic Laws!!!

Now if one doesn't pray 5 times a day, and I know many like that, its not ideal. But no Muslim is supposed to look down on or curse him for then he/she is not a true Muslim.

You see in Islam we have 5 pillars:

1) Shahadai -> Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad;
2) Salat -> Establishment of the daily prayers;
3) Zakat -> Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;
4) Sawm -> Self-purification through fasting; and
5) Hajj -> The pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able

As you can see, prayer is #2 on the list, so pretty important. Breaking these Islamic covenents/commandments is not following Islam.

Those lapsed Muslims or Muslims that do not do all, are not bad people. They may just need a little friendly prodding or to show how like people showed me how to pray for example. If they want then they will do, if not, its their choice. Choice is a Gift of God and is ours to do with as we please at the end of the day. Islam says we are all accountable to God.

PS - The 10 commandments are also part of Islam. I may have said that already in another post though

Thanks Liban

ok, now going back to your first post regarding Jihad. Again my intention is not one of critisism or to create bad words.

You say that Jihad is "the next level when they are 110% pure". I dont understand how this concurs or has meaning or relevance to the act of terrorism. In addition how does "self cleanisng"then moving onto to pure relate to the muder of innocent people of all faiths including "good muslims". I see this as a contradiction?

I ask this because you state that "uneducated muslims" understand Jihad to have a different meaning in difference to those muslims that are pure( as in previous paragraph). In this case and you refer to to "all infidels". does "all infidels" include the innocent including pure muslims etc?

Have i got this mixed up ie: the difference between pure and uneducated muslims???

Yes, you are correct in saying our interpretation of Jihad means holy war, this is in our papers everytime an act of terrorism takes place. And is obviously a phrase used by extremists like Bin Laden.

cheers

Liban

I have re-read my post, and it doesnt read very well. Its probably due to my lack of understanding, for which i apologise in advance.

Cheers

Liban, your post made for interesting and enlightening reading but there are a couple of points that I would like to raise.

Firstly you seem to suggest that it is uneducated Muslims who wrongly believe they can go out and kill because they don't have a true grasp of the teachings in this matter. But surely the most notorious of them all, Bin Laden, is very well educated and from a rich family. And he claims to follow the teachings and faith of Islam to the letter.

Also your statement that "you cannot be a Muslim if you are uneducated" I find astonishing. Are you really saying that Islam is not for the millions of people who, through no fault of their own, were not privileged enough to gain an education. Surely this can't be so. It would seem to be somewhat elitist, to say the least. Maybe I've got hold of the wrong end of the stick from your post and it needs clarifying.

GoodBai wrote:Also your statement that "you cannot be a Muslim if you are uneducated" I find astonishing. Are you really saying that Islam is not for the millions of people who, through no fault of their own, were not privileged enough to gain an education. Surely this can't be so. It would seem to be somewhat elitist, to say the least. Maybe I've got hold of the wrong end of the stick from your post and it needs clarifying.

"you cannot be a Muslim if you are uneducated" so far my knowledge is concern, This phrase hold good if you have all opportunity to learn.


It is said/written :
" EDUCATION IS ESSENTIALS FOR EVERY MUSLIM MEN AND WOMEN" but it doest not mean uneducated muslims are not muslim at all..


If a person is unaware of islam, then its muslims responsiblity to convey the message of God to all ....regardless of the race..

and for your kind info,

If the child were left alone, he would worship Allah in his own way, but all children are affected by those things around them, seen or unseen.

The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah" (natural belief in Allah and an inborn inclination to worship Him alone), then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).
So, just as the child submits to the physical laws which Allah has put in nature, his soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allah is his Lord and Creator. But, his parents try to make him follow their own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his life to resist or oppose the will of his parents.


remember the history, u will find one best example of Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) [PBUH]. think about his birth, environment, parents etc..etc...

You talk so much crap Emadullah and you make it impossible to have a serious discussion based on fact.

It's interesting, but if someone has been brought up a Christian and has those profound beliefs, you can't seriously expect them to change what they believe. Can you imagine the torment?

arniegang wrote:You talk so much crap Emadullah and you make it impossible to have a serious discussion based on fact.

if it is so, i will delete my post. be happy now

OK OK OK....

Edecation is important in Islam. The Prophet Himself said that those who really wish to follow Islam should be well learned. Doesn't make u a bad person if you are not, just that you are to always better yourself as a Muslim (self-jihad) and you are not doing yourself justice by not seeking education.

Bin Ladin may come from a rich and educated family but he is not open I think. Islam teaches openess and tolerance. Saying "lets kill all infidels" is not what The Prophet would consider being open and tolerant.

I think we need to talk and respect others. I beleive I am following the right path. But thats me. A path leading to God is the right path anyways.

Not all Christians will burn in Hell according to Islam. Not all Muslims will go to Heaven. Allah (God) is fair and will judge you according to how you live your life. Of course the Quran teaches us that accepting Mohammed as the Final Prophet and beleiving its teachings and following them is the ultimate key to heaven.

I hope nobody found this post offensive... I am tired of flame wars.

any one who belive thiers is the religion of absolute truth and people who have different opinion have to considered as non-belivers in True god has to be considered as religious fundamentalist .

Let us lern to respect other religions and their belief . After all its belief and not science to bechmark it . And human race has passed through thousands of years and there were thousands of belives . And we dont know ,what will be the situation on this earth in another 200 yerars .There can be so much of changes and there will be changes in religious belives too .

regds
Sreedhar

Post subject: What do Christians think about....... The Prophet Mohammed?

While I do not count myself among the adherants of this Religion called Christianity,
I believe Mohammad was a unifying force during a time in histroy which needed guidance both Religiously as well as Socially.
Mohammad provided both to his surrounding environment.

As for the LAST PROPHET thing, exactly who made this BOLD claim ?
An Edict supplied by the Prophet himself in order to solidify his Authority?

I stand and testify to the fact that GOD/Allah did not close the door after communicating to Mohammad.

I'll end this post here since I'm quite sure my words will be found as Blasphemy in the eyes of some.

Liban wrote:OK OK OK....

Edecation is important in Islam. The Prophet Himself said that those who really wish to follow Islam should be well learned. Doesn't make u a bad person if you are not, just that you are to always better yourself as a Muslim (self-jihad) and you are not doing yourself justice by not seeking education.

Bin Ladin may come from a rich and educated family but he is not open I think. Islam teaches openess and tolerance. Saying "lets kill all infidels" is not what The Prophet would consider being open and tolerant.

I think we need to talk and respect others. I beleive I am following the right path. But thats me. A path leading to God is the right path anyways.

Not all Christians will burn in Hell according to Islam. Not all Muslims will go to Heaven. Allah (God) is fair and will judge you according to how you live your life. Of course the Quran teaches us that accepting Mohammed as the Final Prophet and beleiving its teachings and following them is the ultimate key to heaven.

I hope nobody found this post offensive... I am tired of flame wars.

Allah (God) is fair and will judge you according to how you live your life.

That which proceeds onward after the death of this flesh to the Heavens & God/Allah is The CONTENT of your individual CHARACTER.

ALL DEEDS DONE THROUGHOUT YOUR LIFETIME IN THE FLESH shape and form the Content of your Character i.e. the Soul.

i will try to clarify something here , regarding the educated muslims ,, when we say educated muslims ,, we mean relougously ,, i mean being a good muslim whome the prophet Mohammad pbuh would have been proud of as one . being and educated muslim has nothing to do with the high levels of academic studies - though its importants nowadays - its only a kind of education that will make you act or react according to what God wants you to ,,, in the cases that tose NON-EDUCATED MUSLIMS are reacting ,, they only hear about how the companions of the prophet were heroes at those times ,, they only focus on their actions in war - while it was a self-defense cases , they dont focus on their action regarding being wise and fair .

Richard ,,, the prophet Mohammad is the last prophet ,, it is true ,, this is what we muslims believe ,,because ??? yes becouse he said so ,, for us its enough ,, and it doesnt mean that God closed the connection by Mohammad pbuh,,,, i will tell you this story << when the prophet pbuh has died ,, it was a shock for all muslims that time ,,coz they were really connected to him and they loved him from the bottom of their hearts ,, some of them didnt believe that he is dead ,,, then Abu Bakr Al Siddique , may Allah be pleased with him , said :" oh people , who was worshiping Mohammad ((( of course they were not worshiping the prophet ,, but it was a wise way from Abu Bakr's side to make people realize the truth))) then Mohammad is dead ,, and who is worshiping Allah , then Allah will not die

what i mean from this story ,, that the muslim is still connected to God ,, everybody else as well ,, but he is the last prophet ,,, you cannt understand that he is the last prophet ,, i dont blame you coz you dont believe in him as a prophet ,, but i have one question :

If find it BOLD to say that he is last prophet ,, do you think that you would believe in a prophet if will appear ???? so which idea would you find harder ////????? i am not trying to be sarcastic here ,, but i really want to know ,, coz it really shows that you are completely unhappy with that info " that Mohammad pbuh is the last profit "

Richard Owl Mirror wrote:As for the LAST PROPHET thing, exactly who made this BOLD claim ?
An Edict supplied by the Prophet himself in order to solidify his Authority?

I stand and testify to the fact that GOD/Allah did not close the door after communicating to Mohammad.

God Himself declared that Mohammed PBUH will be the LAST OF HIS PROPHETS.

Not quite sure who you think you are to "stand and testify" otherwise.

Liban wrote:

Richard Owl Mirror wrote:As for the LAST PROPHET thing, exactly who made this BOLD claim ?
An Edict supplied by the Prophet himself in order to solidify his Authority?

I stand and testify to the fact that GOD/Allah did not close the door after communicating to Mohammad.

God Himself declared that Mohammed PBUH will be the LAST OF HIS PROPHETS.

Not quite sure who you think you are to "stand and testify" otherwise.

Liban, Exactly HOW did "God Himself" declare this?

"Not quite sure who you think you are" ... that is because you do not know my true identity, YET.

He spoke through the Prophet Mohammed. Gabrial announced the commencement to the Prophet when he was seated by the fire and so it began with the word IQRA.

Oh and as for your true identity, thats OK, anyone who claims to "stand and testify before God" is one step away from the looney farm....

Liban wrote:He spoke through the Prophet Mohammed. Gabrial announced the commencement to the Prophet when he was seated by the fire and so it began with the word IQRA.

Oh and as for your true identity, thats OK, anyone who claims to "stand and testify before God" is one step away from the looney farm....

I stand and testify to the fact that GOD/Allah did not close the door after communicating to Mohammad.

How did "I stand and testify to the fact" become "stand and testify before God"

God is the Fact.

ROM,
Just a check point.
Do you belive in GOD?

Nice one ROM, and I have to agree with you and I also had the same opinion about the Bible. People say that the Holy books are the words of God given to the prophets, but they were all written by man and so are open to interpretation as to what is actually true or not. Personally I have big issues with it all. And what about people who although history who say they've been communicated with by God in one way or another?

Personally I don't think the door is closed to other messengers of God.

I just get confused with all the mixed messages, so I'm pretty much agnostic as I don't know what to believe or until I have proof myself.

Chocoholic wrote:
I just get confused with all the mixed messages, so I'm pretty much agnostic as I don't know what to believe or until I have proof myself.

So you are confused....

I hope you find the right path soon... Before its too late.

Of course I'm confused, I've always been confused about this stuff, can't stand the mixed messages which is why I tend to just ignore it.

yshimy wrote:ROM,
Just a check point.
Do you belive in GOD?

Most definately !
I have searched for the right path (for me) all my life.
Even as a child I stood my ground when I felt those in authority on religious matters were wrong. I was kicked out of Catholic school at the age of 8 for doing so. I wasn't even allowed to attend their church with my family after that and even to the point of having to wait outside of the church during my sisters wedding (I was 11 at the time).

I have searched all of this worlds religious beliefs throughout my 48 years of life.
Not ONE has presented me with pure truth which I know in my heart to be not tainted by the mind of man.