^ it is a general term :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish-American_princess
(And I have met some!)
the message board for Dubai English speaking community
Redchief wrote:
I cannot agree that Moslem women don't want to be attractive outside home and you achived the main goal of 1984.
If they lived in siberia, I am kind of sure they wouldn't bother with perfumes outside either...As a proof I read in media that ME women spent on parfume much more money than everywhere else
Berrin wrote:Get
It's only islam that regulates family life and affairs in proper fashion to keep it's welfare and maintenance for everbody's happiness including society!
Flying Dutchman wrote:Is it true that wearing a burqa in Mecca in haram?
shafique wrote:If you do a search for photos of the Kaaba you'll generally see a mixture of people, men and women, some in ihram (white) and others dressed normally, including women in burqas.
The Muslim Canadian Congress called on the federal government to prohibit the two garments in order to prevent women from covering their faces in public - a practice the group said has no place in a society that supports gender equality.
"To cover your face is to conceal your identity," congress spokeswoman Farzana Hassan said in a telephone interview, describing the issue as a matter of public safety, since concealing one's identity is a common practice for criminals
Considering the fact that women are in fact forbidden from wearing burkas in the grand mosque in Mecca, Islam's holiest site, it hardly makes sense that the practice should be permitted in Canada, she said.
shafique wrote:I can't honestly remember whether I saw women wearing veils in there when I visited.
shafique wrote:If you do a search for photos of the Kaaba you'll generally see a mixture of people, men and women, some in ihram (white) and others dressed normally, including women in burqas.
shafique wrote:Certainly, if one is on pilgrimage, then the face should be uncovered
Flying Dutchman wrote:Why do people get all emotional about the ban of burqa's in Belgium, while there is actually a ban of it in the holiest of holiest of Islam???
Greek women routinely wore the veil. That is the unexpected finding of this meticulous study, one with interesting implications for the origins of Western civilisation. `The Greeks', popularly (and rightly) credited with the invention of civic openness, are revealed as also part of a more Eastern tradition of seclusion. Llewellyn-Jones' work proceeds from literary and, notably, from iconographic evidence. In sculpture and vase painting it demonstrates the presence of the veil, often covering the head, but also more unobtrusively folded back onto the shoulders. This discreet fashion not only gave a priviledged view of the face to the ancient art consumer, but also, incidentally, allowed the veil to escape the notice of traditional modern scholarship. From Greek literary sources, the author shows that full veiling of the head and face was commonplace. He analyses the elaborate Greek vocabulary for veiling and explores what the veil meant to achieve. He shows that the veil was a conscious extension of the house and was often referred to as `tegidion', literally `a little roof'. Veiling was thus an ingeneous compromise; it allowed women to circulate in public while mainting the ideal of a house-bound existence. Alert to the different types of veil used, the author uses Greek and more modern evidence (mostly from the Arab world) to show how women could exploit and subvert the veil as a means of eloquent, sometimes emotional, communication.
Berrin, let's look at it from a westerner's point of view.
Westerners are staying on contractual terms on Arap lands. And I assume not many westeners would take joy in permanent life in such Islamic cultures to show off their wealth? If they did I am sure they too would race with Araps. But hey how else you think Araps can host and please their petro millionaire associates or just general westerners coming over to work? bedouin style? Remember araps, well more like Muslims renowned as backward medieval dessert man of the world.. So with the wealth they own, they show the world their potential. You have no excuse to complain. See you already talking about it, just spread the word around faster pls.The majority of Arabs are very materialistic. I don't know of one westerner here in Dubai who has a parking area at his villa that looks like a car showroom - at least 5 high end cars on display.
Have you ever seen some of the bling that women who cover wear?? Bling, bling, bling.
In Western society many marriages consist of a two-career marriage. But raising the children, keeping home, laundry, seems to fall to the woman. Then you have women who may not actually be following a career but may be working in Walmart because the family needs the income.
Men think as long as they get up in the morning and go to work, come home, eat dinner, sit in front of the TV, their day is over and they have fulfilled their duties as a husband and at the end of the day expect their working wives to complete their night time duty.
I have seen so many local married men who take mistresses here. I have seen locals who marry in the heat of the moment, usually to non-Arab women, and wake up one day and decide it wasn't for him. Next!!!! When it is said that the prostitution trade exists because it caters to tourists - sure, blame the need on tourists.
Arab women are made to accept a husband having a 2nd, 3rd, 4th wife, and if he divorces one there is a slot for a replacement.
It seems to me that Arab men don't even feel they need to justify their behavior, where you give westerners, specifically men, an excuse/reason to do it. Arab men do it because they can.
I have seen Arab marriages in trouble due to the newly found wealth that fell into their laps. Trouble generally stems from the husbands who shifted from what they held valuable to another type of value. There has been a very big breakdown in families over the years because the men tend to live a seperate life.
I can look at my western society and see a lot of flaws, what I think has gone wrong. It doesn't mean I have to live those flaws or change or disregard my values.
In any case, if you read quran i.e the second surah straight after the first chapter Fatiha which is called Al-Baqara you would indeed be left with this bitter feeling that there was/is a strong abuse/violation of Muslim Women's rights, due to a) an outdated, limited interpretation of the text, or some mullahs who seem to collectively fear women or should we say the Feminine c) by Muslim men themselves and the societies they rule and d) last but not least by the women themselves...But if you could step back a minute you may just see where there are flaws in Arab/Islamic society. If there was such a thing as a perfect religion, then the world would practice that one perfect religion.
Dubai Knight wrote:So tell me, is this an expression of covering up her feminine attractions? Why go to all this trouble if she is not trying to show off her attributes?
No.
Red Chief wrote:Shafique, why are not you tired to make up lame excuses and dig fossilized $hit? Vase painting - LOL.
How about Hellenistic statues which shows beaty of (NAKED !!!) woman's body? I don't see anything even close in Moslem World.
Continue trying. Next atempt could be in prehistoric period. Apes with veil?
The use of the veil is often seen either as an Islamic invention and tradition, thus dating from the period after Mohammed's death in 632 or an Eastern tradition stemming from Syria, Palestine and Byzantium which, through the Arab conquests and the spread of Islam, became common in Arab and neighbouring countries. However, the tradition is "western" as well. In Homer's world the veil, kredemnon, relates to a chaste woman. When Penelope descends from her room to the court-yard, which is dominated by suitors, she does not go alone and she always ensures that she covers her face:
And from her upper chamber the daughter of Icarius, wise Penelope, heard his wondrous song, and she went down the high stairway from her chamber, not alone, for two handmaids attended her. Now when the fair lady had come to the wooers, she stood by the doorpost of the well-built hall, holding before her face her shining veil; and a faithful handmaid stood on either side of her (Od. 1.328-336).
Of course, Penelope, as an attractive "widow", has to attend carefully to the correct moral stance, but that applies to Nausicaa and her handmaidens, too, when they go to the river to wash the laundry and afterwards enjoy a leisurely time:
Then when they had had their joy of food, she and her handmaids, they threw off their headgear and fell to playing at ball, and white-armed Nausicaa was leader in the song. (Od 6, 99-100).
shafique wrote:To answer your question - of course these ladies are being hypocritical and are pushing the boundaries of the dress code and making a mockery of the reason for covering up the 'normal' clothes when one goes out in public.
Dubai Knight wrote:
So tell me, is this an expression of covering up her feminine attractions? Why go to all this trouble if she is not trying to show off her attributes?
No.
On my wall, I have a picture of a Muslim woman shrouded in a burka[1].
Beside it is a picture of an American beauty contestant, wearing nothing but a bikini.
One woman is totally hidden from the public; the other is totally exposed. These two extremes say a great deal about the clash of so-called “civilizations.”
The role of woman is at the heart of any culture. Apart from stealing Arab oil, the impending war in the Middle East is about stripping Arabs of their religion and culture, exchanging the burka for a bikini.
I am not an expert on the condition of Muslim women and I love feminine beauty too much to advocate the burka here. But I am defending some of the values that the burka represents for me.
For me, the burka represents a woman’s consecration to her husband and family. Only they see her.
It affirms the privacy, exclusivity and importance of the domestic sphere.
The Muslim woman’s focus is her home, the “nest” where her children are born and reared. She is the “home” maker, the taproot that sustains the spiritual life of the family, nurturing and training her children, providing refuge and support to her husband.
In contrast, the bikinied American beauty queen struts practically naked in front of millions on TV. A feminist, she belongs to herself. In practice, paradoxically, she is public property. She belongs to no one and everyone. She shops her body to the highest bidder. She is auctioning herself all of the time.
In America, the cultural measure of a woman’s value is her sex appeal. (As this asset depreciates quickly, she is neurotically obsessed with appearance and plagued by weight problems.)
As an adolescent, her role model is Britney Spears, a singer whose act approximates a strip tease. From Britney, she learns that she will be loved only if she gives sex. Thus, she learns to “hook up” rather than to demand patient courtship and true love. As a result, dozens of males know her before her husband does. She loses her innocence, which is a part of her charm. She becomes hardened and calculating. Unable to love, she is unfit to receive her husband’s seed.
The feminine personality is founded on the emotional relationship between mother and baby. It is based on nurturing and self-sacrifice. Masculine nature is founded on the relationship between hunter and prey. It is based on aggression and reason.
Feminism teaches woman that feminine nature has resulted in “oppression” and that she should convert to male behavior instead. The result: a confused and aggressive woman with a large chip on her shoulder, unfit to become a wife or mother.
This, of course, is the goal of the social engineers at the NWO: undermine sexual identity and destroy the family, create social and personal dysfunction, and reduce population. In the “brave new world,” women are not supposed to be “nest” makers, or progenitors of the race. They are meant to be neutered autonomous creatures that indulge in sex for physical pleasure, not for love or procreation.
At his press conference on Sunday, Donald Rumsfeld said that Iranian women and youth were restive under the rule of the Mullahs. He implied that the US would soon liberate them. To Britney Spears? To low-rise “see-my-thong” pants? To the mutual masturbation that passes for sexuality in America?
Parenthood is the pinnacle of human development. It is the stage when we finally graduate from self-indulgence and become God’s surrogates: creating and nurturing new life. The New World Order does not want us to reach this level of maturity. Pornography is the substitute for marriage. We are to remain stunted: single, sex-starved and self-obsessed.
We are not meant to have a permanent “private” life. We are to remain lonely and isolated, dependent on consumer products for our identity, in a state of perpetual courtship.
This is especially destructive for woman. Her sexual attraction is a function of her fertility. As fertility declines, so does her sex appeal. If a woman devotes her prime years to becoming “independent,” she is not likely to find a permanent mate.
Her long-term personal fulfillment and happiness lies in making marriage and family her first priority.
Feminism is another cruel New World Order hoax that has debauched American women and despoiled Western civilization. It has ruined millions of lives and represents a lethal threat to Islam.
I am not advocating the burka but rather some of the values that it represents, specifically a woman’s consecration to her future husband and family, and the modesty and dignity this entails...[2]
About the author:
Henry Makow, is the inventor of the board game Scruples, and the author of A Long Way to go for a Date. He received his Ph.D. in English Literature from the University of Toronto.
Berrin wrote:Blame it on the male chauvinist founders of capitalism. Nicely managed to put women into the centre point of consumption. So much so that core values of religion and modesty had to be ceased in favor of darwinist/atheist/feminist propaganda to nourish it.
They exploited enough women in the west and now it's the turn of muslim ladies on muslim lands or whereever they live.
Berrin wrote:Dubai Knight wrote:
So tell me, is this an expression of covering up her feminine attractions? Why go to all this trouble if she is not trying to show off her attributes?
No.
Blame it on the male chauvinist founders of capitalism. Nicely managed to put women into the centre point of consumption. So much so that core values of religion and modesty had to be ceased in favor of darwinist/atheist/feminist propaganda to nourish it.
They exploited enough women in the west and now it's the turn of muslim ladies on muslim lands or whereever they live.
shafique wrote:Hey, I'm just a firm believer that if we don't know our history, we are bound to repeat mistakes.
Dubai Knight wrote:Berrin wrote:Dubai Knight wrote:
So tell me, is this an expression of covering up her feminine attractions? Why go to all this trouble if she is not trying to show off her attributes?
No.
Blame it on the male chauvinist founders of capitalism. Nicely managed to put women into the centre point of consumption. So much so that core values of religion and modesty had to be ceased in favor of darwinist/atheist/feminist propaganda to nourish it.
They exploited enough women in the west and now it's the turn of muslim ladies on muslim lands or whereever they live.
This has nothing to do with Western capitalism! Thats just dogma. This is the women's own choice to express themselves in this way (see it as their cry for freedom) something they are sadly lacking.
If they truly didn't want to bling themselves up and go out on parade, they would either stay at home or cover completely. Females enjoy being admired, they need it on an animal level and they also are driven to it by Darwinian principles.
Men are exactly the same. They are driven to do things that enhance their masculinity in the eyes of potential mates, which here tends to be the acquisition and abuse of a fast car or the wearing of a valuable watch and carrying of a Mont Blanc pen. They are visible status symbols that tell a potential partner that 'I am successful and therefore higher genetic material'. Would they be seen as the victims of male chauvinist propaganda?
Nature will always find a way and anything 'people' do to try and stop it will fail eventually. This constriction of human nature is unnatural and is why those nations that have evolved beyond it, see the wearing of the veil as archaiic and an infringement on the rights of the individual.
Knight
Red Chief wrote:
In the middle of XIX century they have less rights than blacks in US. So it was a long fight in US and UK.
The Church’s founding fathers, men who formulated Christian belief and canonized the Bible, supported this view: ‘Don’t you know that you are each an Eve?’ God’s sentence on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the Devil’s gateway: you are the unsealer of the forbidden tree: you are the first deserter of the divine law: you are she who persuaded him whom the devil wasn’t valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God’s image, man. (St. Tertullian)
“Woman is a daughter of falsehood, a sentinel of Hell, the enemy of peace; through her Adam lost paradise.” (St. John Damascene)
‘God created Adam Lord of all living creatures, but Eve spoiled it all. Women should remain at home, sit still, keep house and bear children. And if they (women) grow tired or, even, die (from giving birth), it does not matter. Let her die from in childbirth; that’s why they are there.’ (Martin Luther).
Red Chief wrote:shafique wrote:Hey, I'm just a firm believer that if we don't know our history, we are bound to repeat mistakes.
Not so easy, Shafique. It is not YOUR history but OUR history. So it looks rather like a throwing stone than the lesson.
Dubai knight wrote:
This has nothing to do with Western capitalism! Thats just dogma.
Berrin wrote:Dubai knight wrote:
This has nothing to do with Western capitalism! Thats just dogma.
It seems that the popes had failed to teach you the purpose of life...maybe they didn't know in the first place..
The The Judeo-Christian Answer
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/186/
Islam and the aim of life
http://www.saaid.net/islam/2.htm
.
Red Chief wrote:
common sence tells me that nobody gives rights without fights from the seeker.
MAybe some people doesnt need the pope or Islam to teach them the purpose of life, how to live, what to eat, what to wear etc etc