Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk Philosophy and Religion Forums

The final indicating sign to recognize God in human form

You are excited on realizing some body as God and you will not freely move with Him to clarify your doubts. On seeing the common external characteristics, your anxiety and excitement get neutralized so that you will freely mix with God thinking Him as a normal human being. This point is limited to God only. Every soul is affected by the characteristics and therefore, you being a soul should not imitate God. Recently, I heard that some Judge told that sex before marriage is not wrong as in the case of Radha and Krishna. Krishna lifted the huge mountain and let every body follow Krishna after lifting the mountain!

The same Krishna in the form of Rama practiced the way, which should be practiced by every human being. You should imitate Rama in practice and follow what Krishna said in Gita. Krishna showed the nature of God, which is untouched by any quality. Rama showed the nature of every human soul. Through Krishna, you should know God and through Rama you should know your self. Krishna was after married ladies (Gopikas) and Ravana was also after married ladies. Both lifted huge mountains. In fact, Ravana lifted a bigger mountain called Kailasha. Then, what is the difference between Krishna and Ravana? Both should be God as per the logic. Krishna lifted the mountain to protect the true devotees. Ravana lifted the mountain to exhibit his ego. Apart from this, Krishna preached wonderful knowledge in the form of Gita, which is the guide for any spiritual aspirant. Ravana did not preach so.

Therefore, the final indicating sign to recognize God in human form is only the infinite wonderful knowledge given by God. Hence, Vedas say that God is the true infinite knowledge and this means that you should recognize God by His true knowledge only in the ultimate filtration. The knowledge is also the characteristic of the medium only and can be treated as the characteristic of God due to its constant association. A married lady is recognized by the yellow thread in her neck and it can be treated as the original characteristic of the lady due to its constant association. Actually, God is unimaginable and no characteristic of God is imaginable.
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

Do you believe that mountains were physically lifted - or are these accounts metaphors?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Do you believe that mountains were physically lifted - or are these accounts metaphors?

Cheers,
Shafique

They were physically lifted since Krishna was God in human form.

So you believe these miracles physically happened - and two different people physically lifted up mountains.

Ok - thanks for clarifying.

Can similar miracles happen today? Shouldn't people ask to see men lifting mountains or humans walking around with animal heads etc?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:So you believe these miracles physically happened - and two different people physically lifted up mountains.

Ok - thanks for clarifying.

Can similar miracles happen today? Shouldn't people ask to see men lifting mountains or humans walking around with animal heads etc?

Cheers,
Shafique

Definetly such spiriutal powers were exhibited in olden days.

Now the situation has really changed. In olden days people were really spiritually elevated and they were really searching for God and His knoweldge and how to please Him etc. Most of the people realised the aim of life which is the pleasing of God. Hence there were discussions of divine koweldge proper austerity, worship of God etc . Ofcourse there were demonic people also at that point of time with selfish motives.

Now spiritual standard has fallen and people become very tricky and smart and very seldom we find people who are really interested in God. Poeple are very selfish and have no time to think about God! They are constantly involved in making money, eating, drinking, sleeping and having sex only! Their mind has moulded towards such activites which are the really the activities of animals only! Animals also do such acts without any desire for God.

God is loving every soul and is helping every soul in this world. He never hates any soul. The punishment in the hell is also to reduce madness of materialism of the soul. Suppose, one son becomes mad, the father will take him to the doctor and admits him in the mental hospital where shock treatments are given. Can you say that the father is angry with the son? Similarly, the hell is for the last sort of trial to transform the soul. The madness is never cured and the son has to be retained in the hospital only forever.



Same is the concept of the permanent hell. These souls cannot be brought into this world because they will bring Chaos in this world, just like the mad son cannot be brought out of the hospital into the society. Some souls are born as birds, animals etc., Here also only the love of God reflects. As a human being the soul was always interested in eating, drinking and sex only. The soul never turned to God. In such case there is no use of the intelligence of the human category, which is meant for analysis of truth. Therefore, the soul is placed in the cycle of animals, which are also happy like the human beings in eating, drinking and sex only. The human being may think that he may loose his beautiful wife and may have to live with a she-buffalo if he is born as he-buffalo. But the point is that when the soul is born as he-buffalo, the she-buffalo is as beautiful as the present ‘Miss world’!.

The grass will be as tasty as the sweet dish in the meals today. The soul cannot estimate the happiness of the animal while remaining in the human body. The same happiness is received by the souls in all types of bodies from eating, drinking and sex. What ever he desired, that is given to him by God without any disturbance. In the human life the spiritual knowledge is often disturbing him in achieving the continuous happiness from eating, drinking and sex. Therefore, God favored the soul by such animal-birth and this is not punishing the soul.

This means God is helping even His enemies. A father will never harm his issue even if it opposes him. He wants always the happiness of the child continuously. The devoted souls want to be with God and derive the divine bliss constantly. God provides opportunity for such devotees also to make them happy constantly by guiding them in achieving the real and highest devotion to Him. Therefore, you can see the same love of God on a devoted soul staying in His abode as an angel and also on a he-buffalo enjoying with the she-buffalo in a mud pond. Both are continuously happy in their own fields! At last God provided what ever the child desired. Of course He tried to convert the soul in the he-buffalo into an angel. When He failed in all His efforts, He has sanctioned the firm desire of the soul. Therefore, God helped all the souls, whether those loved Him or not.

dattaswami wrote:

shafique wrote:So you believe these miracles physically happened - and two different people physically lifted up mountains.

Ok - thanks for clarifying.

Can similar miracles happen today? Shouldn't people ask to see men lifting mountains or humans walking around with animal heads etc?

Cheers,
Shafique

Definetly such spiriutal powers were exhibited in olden days.

Ok - so the people of northern India saw Krishna physically raise a mountain and then put it down again.

Therefore, this feat would/should have also been witnessed by some Tibetans, or perhaps some other non-Indian people. Is there any evidence outside the Puranas/Vedas etc that anyone saw mountains being lifted by men?

dattaswami wrote:Now the situation has really changed.

You are right. I checked Google and could not find any mention of men lifting mountains.

dattaswami wrote:In olden days people were really spiritually elevated and they were really searching for God and His knoweldge and how to please Him etc.

Hold on. All the accounts I've read of Krishna say that generally the people around him were not very spiritual - only his followers who listened to him (and they were the minority) were spiritual. If anything, he came to bring spirituality to a people who were not spiritual.

dattaswami wrote:Now spiritual standard has fallen and people become very tricky and smart and very seldom we find people who are really interested in God.

So, we don't see miracles today because people are not spiritual enough any more?

But seriously, you believe that there were men who had animal heads transplanted onto their bodies?

Cheers,
Shafique

They were physically lifted since Krishna was God in human form.

Definetly such spiriutal powers were exhibited in olden days.

Now the situation has really changed. In olden days people were really spiritually elevated and they were really searching for God and His knoweldge and how to please Him etc. Most of the people realised the aim of life which is the pleasing of God. Hence there were discussions of divine koweldge proper austerity, worship of God etc .

I believe there is nothing stoping anyone becoming a spiritually strong person even in today's world. Just the amount of effort you put into your religious proposition shows us that you do infact have that that kind of spiritual maturity since you search for God and his knowledge etc..
So my question to you is, do you really believe that one day you'll be able to lift a mountain and carry the head of an animal?
You know that a religion must also be intellectually arguable to attract people to follow...
i.e.I believe that God is single entity and cannot be worshipped in the form of his creation.

THE MESSAGE OF FALSE RELIGION
There are so many sects, cults, religions, philosophies, and movements in the world, all of which claim to be the right way or the only true path to Allah. How can one determine which one is correct or if, in fact, all are correct? The method by which the answer can be found is to clear away the superficial differences in the teachings of the various claimants to the ultimate truth, and identify the central object of worship to which they call, directly or indirectly. False religions all have in common one basic concept with regards to Allah. They either claim that all men are gods or that specific men were Allah or that nature is Allah or that Allah is a figment of man's imagination.

Thus, it may be stated that the basic message of false religion is that Allah may be worshipped in the form of His creation. False religion invites man to the worship of creation by calling the creation or some aspect of it God. For example, prophet Jesus invited his followers to worship Allah but those who claim to be his followers today call people to worship Jesus, claiming that he was Allah!

Buddha was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic principles to the religion of India. He did not claim to be God nor did he suggest to his followers that he be an object of worship. Yet, today most Buddhists who are to be found outside of India have taken him to be God and prostrate to idols made in their perception of his likeness.

By using the principle of identifying the object of worship, false religion becomes very obvious and the contrived nature of their origin clear. As God said in the Our'aan:

That which you worship besides Him are only names you and your forefathers have invented for which Allah has sent down no authority: The command belongs only to Allah:

He has commanded that you only worship Him; that is the right religion, but most men do not understand ". (Soorah Yoosuf 12:40)

It may be argued that all religions teach good things so why should it matter which one we follow. The reply is that all false religions teach the greatest evil, the worship of creation. Creation-worship is the greatest sin that man can commit because it contradicts the very purpose of his creation. Man was created to worship Allah alone as Allah has explicitly stated in the Our'aan:

"I have only created Jlnns and men, that they may worship me"(Soorah Zaareeyaat 51:56)

Consequently, the worship of creation, which is the essence of idolatry, is the only unforgivable sin. One who dies in this state of idolatry has sealed his fate in the next life. This is not an opinion, but a revealed fact stated by Allah in his final revelation to man:

"Verily Allah will not forgive the joining of partners with Him, but He may forgive (sins) less than that for whom so ever He wishes"(Soorah An- Nisaa 4:48 and 116)

http://islamworld.net/docs/true.html

Did God become man? A natural Belief in God
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/567/viewall/

Berrin wrote:

They were physically lifted since Krishna was God in human form.

Definetly such spiriutal powers were exhibited in olden days.

Now the situation has really changed. In olden days people were really spiritually elevated and they were really searching for God and His knoweldge and how to please Him etc. Most of the people realised the aim of life which is the pleasing of God. Hence there were discussions of divine koweldge proper austerity, worship of God etc .

I believe there is nothing stoping anyone becoming a spiritually strong person even in today's world. Just the amount of effort you put into your religious proposition shows us that you do infact have that that kind of spiritual maturity since you search for God and his knowledge etc..
So my question to you is, do you really believe that one day you'll be able to lift a mountain and carry the head of an animal?
You know that a religion must also be intellectually arguable to attract people to follow...
i.e.I believe that God is single entity and cannot be worshipped in the form of his creation.

THE MESSAGE OF FALSE RELIGION
There are so many sects, cults, religions, philosophies, and movements in the world, all of which claim to be the right way or the only true path to Allah. How can one determine which one is correct or if, in fact, all are correct? The method by which the answer can be found is to clear away the superficial differences in the teachings of the various claimants to the ultimate truth, and identify the central object of worship to which they call, directly or indirectly. False religions all have in common one basic concept with regards to Allah. They either claim that all men are gods or that specific men were Allah or that nature is Allah or that Allah is a figment of man's imagination.

Thus, it may be stated that the basic message of false religion is that Allah may be worshipped in the form of His creation. False religion invites man to the worship of creation by calling the creation or some aspect of it God. For example, prophet Jesus invited his followers to worship Allah but those who claim to be his followers today call people to worship Jesus, claiming that he was Allah!

Buddha was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic principles to the religion of India. He did not claim to be God nor did he suggest to his followers that he be an object of worship. Yet, today most Buddhists who are to be found outside of India have taken him to be God and prostrate to idols made in their perception of his likeness.

By using the principle of identifying the object of worship, false religion becomes very obvious and the contrived nature of their origin clear. As God said in the Our'aan:

That which you worship besides Him are only names you and your forefathers have invented for which Allah has sent down no authority: The command belongs only to Allah:

He has commanded that you only worship Him; that is the right religion, but most men do not understand ". (Soorah Yoosuf 12:40)

It may be argued that all religions teach good things so why should it matter which one we follow. The reply is that all false religions teach the greatest evil, the worship of creation. Creation-worship is the greatest sin that man can commit because it contradicts the very purpose of his creation. Man was created to worship Allah alone as Allah has explicitly stated in the Our'aan:

"I have only created Jlnns and men, that they may worship me"(Soorah Zaareeyaat 51:56)

Consequently, the worship of creation, which is the essence of idolatry, is the only unforgivable sin. One who dies in this state of idolatry has sealed his fate in the next life. This is not an opinion, but a revealed fact stated by Allah in his final revelation to man:

"Verily Allah will not forgive the joining of partners with Him, but He may forgive (sins) less than that for whom so ever He wishes"(Soorah An- Nisaa 4:48 and 116)

http://islamworld.net/docs/true.html

Did God become man? A natural Belief in God
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/567/viewall/

Lifting a mounting is not the spirituality. Spirituality is not gaining powers to do miracles. Spirituality is to please God and become a family member of HIM. Spirituality means becoming a strong devotee of God. Spirituality means becoming a servant to God and do work for Him and His mission.

You overlooked my question to you Dattaswami:

shafique wrote:So, we don't see miracles today because people are not spiritual enough any more?

But seriously, you believe that there were men who had animal heads transplanted onto their bodies?

(Easy to do when pasting the interesting material you post - but I look forward to your answer)

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:You overlooked my question to you Dattaswami:

shafique wrote:So, we don't see miracles today because people are not spiritual enough any more?

But seriously, you believe that there were men who had animal heads transplanted onto their bodies?

(Easy to do when pasting the interesting material you post - but I look forward to your answer)

Cheers,
Shafique

God perform miracles when there is an urgent need. When a deserving devotee need an urgent help when other natural means fail, then GOd do miracles, other wise not. He never perform miracles for show, since the miracles are voilation of natural rules which are founded by God Himself. No ruler will break his own rules.

When there is no other means and there is a pressing situation to save a devotee then God acts through miracles to save the devotee.

Is there no 'urgent need' today for God to perform miracles?

Could you elaborate on the urgent need in the past that required a man's head to be replaced by that of an elephant (in the case of Ganesha).

I would think that there is probably more need today for miracles than at the time of the miracles described in the Vedas- do you agree?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Is there no 'urgent need' today for God to perform miracles?

Could you elaborate on the urgent need in the past that required a man's head to be replaced by that of an elephant (in the case of Ganesha).

I would think that there is probably more need today for miracles than at the time of the miracles described in the Vedas- do you agree?

Cheers,
Shafique

Miracle means the violation of the regular administration of God to be done by God Himself! Unless there is an extraordinary emergency in the case of a deserving devotee or a specific need in the divine mission of God, miracle does not appear. The devotee deserves a miracle when he or she does not aspire for it even in dream and is really involved in the divine mission of the Lord. This is the context of the miracle from the side of the devotee. The miracle can also take place from the side of God whenever a need arises in the divine work. If God feels that an atheist can be converted through a miracle, it takes place.

If God feels that a miracle can improve the faith or devotion of a devotee, then also a miracle can happen. These two cases are from the side of God and not from the side of devotee. This means that if the devotee says that he will be converted or he will develop the faith and devotion by a miracle, God will not do the miracle unless in His view there is a real hope for it. Even without the request from devotee or atheist, God will exhibit the miracle if God has hope. In any case the devotee should not aspire for the miracle even in the mind.

The miracle will happen spontaneously if God is convinced. There is no need of any initiation or interaction from the side of the soul. Even a deserving devotee sometimes reduces the speed of the miracle by aspiring for it. The whole problem lies with miracles is that the attention of the soul to God is completely diverted to His power only.

-- Mon May 03, 2010 1:04 pm --

shafique wrote:Is there no 'urgent need' today for God to perform miracles?

Could you elaborate on the urgent need in the past that required a man's head to be replaced by that of an elephant (in the case of Ganesha).

I would think that there is probably more need today for miracles than at the time of the miracles described in the Vedas- do you agree?

Cheers,
Shafique

Miracle means the violation of the regular administration of God to be done by God Himself! Unless there is an extraordinary emergency in the case of a deserving devotee or a specific need in the divine mission of God, miracle does not appear. The devotee deserves a miracle when he or she does not aspire for it even in dream and is really involved in the divine mission of the Lord. This is the context of the miracle from the side of the devotee. The miracle can also take place from the side of God whenever a need arises in the divine work. If God feels that an atheist can be converted through a miracle, it takes place.

If God feels that a miracle can improve the faith or devotion of a devotee, then also a miracle can happen. These two cases are from the side of God and not from the side of devotee. This means that if the devotee says that he will be converted or he will develop the faith and devotion by a miracle, God will not do the miracle unless in His view there is a real hope for it. Even without the request from devotee or atheist, God will exhibit the miracle if God has hope. In any case the devotee should not aspire for the miracle even in the mind.

The miracle will happen spontaneously if God is convinced. There is no need of any initiation or interaction from the side of the soul. Even a deserving devotee sometimes reduces the speed of the miracle by aspiring for it. The whole problem lies with miracles is that the attention of the soul to God is completely diverted to His power only.

Krishna lifted the huge mountain and let every body follow Krishna after lifting the mountain!

Lifting a mounting is not the spirituality. Spirituality is not gaining powers to do miracles. Spirituality is to please God and become a family member of HIM. Spirituality means becoming a strong devotee of God. Spirituality means becoming a servant to God and do work for Him and His mission.

So shall we say that krishna was not spiritualy strong and elevated person then? If true, this means that we don’t indeed need spiritually strong and elevated person to lift mountains. So my question to you is the same as what safique's asked... why is it that ordinary man cannot lift the mountains these days?… And what is the significance of you writing the following quote..

Definetly such spiriutal powers were exhibited in olden days
Now the situation has really changed. In olden days people were really spiritually elevated and they were really searching for God and His knoweldge and how to please Him etc. Most of the people realised the aim of life which is the pleasing of God. Hence there were discussions of divine koweldge proper austerity, worship of God etc . Ofcourse there were demonic people also at that point of time with selfish motives.

Was krishna able to lift the mountain without the miracle of god?
Does god need krishna to lift mountaines? If krishna is god, then why do you put emphasise on a separate, independent being called god? Should we believe in this separate entity called God or just the krishna? Was it god that created krishna or krishna creates God?

dattaswami wrote:

shafique wrote:Is there no 'urgent need' today for God to perform miracles?

Could you elaborate on the urgent need in the past that required a man's head to be replaced by that of an elephant (in the case of Ganesha).

I would think that there is probably more need today for miracles than at the time of the miracles described in the Vedas- do you agree?

Cheers,
Shafique

Miracle means the violation of the regular administration of God to be done by God Himself! Unless there is an extraordinary emergency in the case of a deserving devotee or a specific need in the divine mission of God, miracle does not appear.

Dattaswami - I understand what a miracle is. I also understand that you said that miracles only appear when there is a need.

My question to you above is asking two things:

1. What was the pressing need when the miracles of the Vedas were performed (eg Ganesha getting a head of an elephant)
and

2. Why today (or even in the past 3000 years for that matter) have no similar miracles occured in India or other parts of the world.

I'm struggling to understand why men aren't lifting mountains and walking around with animal heads today etc.

I hope the questions are now clearer.

Cheers,
Shafique