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Ok so we all know the indians and pakistan and filipino are maybe happy to find work here even on the wage they are handed, but isnt dubai guilty of slave labour, it dosnt reflect well on the ethics of the country, ofcourse it goes on everywhere and usually under the table, but its a bit more obvious there, i actually complained to hotel management that the workers in the spa area where not being treated fairly after i learned not only off one young lady but many how long they had been working and without a break or food, this in a high energy job in a rather luxurious establishment - what are your views on this?

ps. what are all the builders gonna do when the building stops

Yea its true,

Many indians,pakistani and philipino workers work on a lower salary and for longer hours. Many of this people are talented and have the qualifications and experience which shud help them in getting higher salaries.

But at most of the times i guess its these people who are to blame for the kind of salary they get. From my personal experience, when i was seeking a job, the expectaions that i had for a salary used to be a lot higher than other people. The straight answer i used to get was i have your own countrymen willing to work on half your salary, i would rather take him. I would say people are coming here in such high numbers it makes easier for employers to pull down the salary on offer. But i stuck to my guns and got the right job with the right salary:).

cheers,

Jerry

Good for you Jerry!

Interestingly enough I was talking to a Filipino guy who works on the abras and does some security at the Madinat today, and he was saying that his country is pretty small with a massive population - 80 million people - and so there just aren't enough jobs to go round, so they're forced to find employment elsewhere, and will probably get more money here than at home. He was a really interesting guy and with the things he was telling me and his knowledge he is seriously wasting his talents doing what he is currently doing, he should be in PR or Marketing!

But it's sad to say that slave labour is well and truly alive and well in the UAE and the way in which some people are treated and forced to live is really appalling. Many are promised fantastic opportunities with good salaries and extras, but when they get here it's all hot air, but they're forced to stay and earn what they can as many have borrowed the money to get here in the first place.

The racism and abuse of employees that I have seen here is shocking. I understand that many people want to come to Dubai because there is work that they can't find in their home countries, but still - these people are not being paid like they should be, or treated like they should be. I was really proud of the taxi drivers that striked because of unfair labour practices, as well as the unity and action we've seen on the part of workers in Sharjah whose company closed and bosses have not paid wages for months. Good for them to stand up and fight for more rights!

ps. what are all the builders gonna do when the building stops

When building stops generally all other things follow and it is called a recession or a crash. I imagine you mean what happens when it slows down?

Personally I think the treatment of workers surpasses one certain so called first class country I lived in. Having said that compared with home it may seem unfair that there are not "award wages" etc meaning a set of rules that determine the minimum hourly pay and conditions BUT having said that most expats accept a package so the operative word being accept I guess.
Mind you in all expat communities I've lived in people appear to be empathetic to workers but are not even sympathetic, starting at home with their "staff". Their maids are often under paid, over worked and expected to be fulltime babysitter/nanny, fulltime cook and fulltime cleaner- some are even dog walkers!!

Simple economics - supply & demand. The supply of people willing to work for next to nothing here is rediculous its a multi conglomorate's dream come true. Although in countries like Thailand, Indonesia etc you wll find the same situation - the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.

On the other side of the coin though compare what these ppl have here to what they would have with no job back home? I know of a lady working diligently here for 15 years and has managed to buy a mansion back in India as well as save a decent stash from the 'slave' rates she's being paid here. She'll basically be set when she goes back there.

I've heard the opposite. I have coworkers who would make the same money back home after taking into consideration the cost of living here. Some have already quit and moved home. They are in the technical field, so perhaps this makes a difference. I'd probably choose the same if the money was equal and the hours were better - not to mention increased respect, less racism, and close proximity to your family.

Kanelli,

I think we're probably talking about the real low wage workers, the labourors who basically get nothing and are couped up in labour camps.

Plus these guys are working in terrible and dangerous conditions. Two were killed on one construction site a couple of weeks ago when roof panelling fell out on top of them, but of course you'll never hear about it in the press. Another guy had half his leg sliced off.

It's like when all the scaffolding collapsed at the airport tens of men were killed, but no-one appeared to take the blame and the true figures of those that died or were injured were never fully released.

Dubai is an interesting place; I see people who make AED 700/month own a farm back home, including a huge house, put 3 daughters through university and is pretty much set for retirement. Than you get fools like me who make more but can't seem to save a dime.

Dubai is as cheap or expensive as you make it although granted it is becoming more and more expensive every year and how long my friend will be able to send back as much money as he does now is debatable.

Chocoholic wrote:It's like when all the scaffolding collapsed at the airport tens of men were killed, but no-one appeared to take the blame and the true figures of those that died or were injured were never fully released.

I heard 43 dead and 2.5 hours for the first ambulance to show up on site.

Choco and K, I'd agree with those points, as yes, the labourers here are paid next to nothing for the amount of work they do. I couldn't see labourers/tradesman in a place like Australia ever wanting to work for more than half a day for what these guys are getting paid in an entire month.

That said I used to be paying my staff in Indo about the same for a month's work and in a place like that where cost of living is low it was considered a decent wage.

Did you get to read that 7 days article about the office boy that earnt 900dhs (or was it 1,000?) a month and was happy with that cause he was still able to have a roof over his head, food to eat, a little (very little) bit for entertainment and still send money back home. My regular petrol pump boys from India, Nepal etc also tell a similar tale with their 600dhs a month. To them it may not be a glorious life, but with little education and where they originate its better than what they could get back home.

All construction sites have safety officers/supervisors so it is a misconception that safety is not important. Safety standards and reputations due to safety are key components in winning jobs. Also it is pure economics-there is loss of time due to accidents, a safe job is more productive-also penalties apply (big time!!) when a job goes over time.

GAB, sadly not in this country, many sites flout even basic safety rules. Some inspectors from other countries came and did a recent survey and were horrified at what they found.

I have never heard of an international construction company that would flout safety...NEVER!! Especially when the onus is literally on their head!

Maybe that is why they are not considered as international construction companies here...

Absolutely right! Half the companies here don't operate out of the region let alone the country.

You see it all the time, guys not wearing hard hats or goggles or wearing harnesses.

GAB, sadly much of this stuff is covered up like the accidents I mentioned ealier, and I only know about these things through the people I know in the construction industry. But for every good one, there are loads that don't care. And of course they won't tell the press, because with the world watching Dubai, once revelations like that get out it would cause problems, not to mention cost the companies money in getting upto scratch complying with international standards.

There's nothing internationally standard about the UAE, it's a law unto itself.

I'm looking out the window right now at the massive builsing going up next door, there are guys crawling all over it and hardly any are using safety gear.

Ditto... any time I sit in my living room looking out the window there are countless "accidents waiting to happen".

fayz wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:It's like when all the scaffolding collapsed at the airport tens of men were killed, but no-one appeared to take the blame and the true figures of those that died or were injured were never fully released.

I heard 43 dead and 2.5 hours for the first ambulance to show up on site.

You have got to be kidding me!

kanelli wrote:

fayz wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:It's like when all the scaffolding collapsed at the airport tens of men were killed, but no-one appeared to take the blame and the true figures of those that died or were injured were never fully released.

I heard 43 dead and 2.5 hours for the first ambulance to show up on site.

You have got to be kidding me!

Not sure of the reliability of the source but yes this is what I heard. There were also 3 laborers killed working on the palm during the tsunami but you’ll never read that in the papers either. the 2.5 hour delay for the Ambulance was in the paper, the number of dead has always been the mystery, from 2 to ~40

<-- does this look like the face of a guy with a sense of humor.

Fayz, it looks more like you're due for a haircut

You are not talking about reputable international construction companies. The standards followed by these companies is obviously different and yes, I too can drive past quite a few construction sites and go . There are international construction companies here and I can tell you for a fact (not some rumour from a friend of a friend) safety is followed to the letter. Harnesses BTW on construction sites.
They are not rock climbing!!
Hard hats and safety boots-must have. What is with the goggles??
I want to see a job site anywhere in the world where the guys/gals have goggles and safety harnesses!! Provide photos so I can PMSL.
BTW you talk of 2.5hours for an ambulance to turn up to site, proper construction company employees know basic first aid (routinely updated) and wouldn't you think somebody would have driven them to a hospital?? Sounds like a bunch of idiots! Actually I am not that shocked from being an expat but the point is there are reputable construction companies here that follow stringent safety regulations-don't tar the whole industry with the same brush.

I think a lot of the builders would be used to those conditions especialy from mumbai, its probably just natural for them, but a minumum "official" wage and some basic human rights would be a nice start,in all sectors. There does seem to be some good contruction companies, b&g gave me a hard hat to walk around their site I would say workers unions will not be far behind, taxi men always seem to take care of themselves that way..haha

a bit off topic but some interesting docs in here aswell especial of modernity and islam merging http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/d ... 544487.stm

GAB wrote:BTW you talk of 2.5hours for an ambulance to turn up to site, proper construction company employees know basic first aid (routinely updated) and wouldn't you think somebody would have driven them to a hospital?? Sounds like a bunch of idiots! Actually I am not that shocked from being an expat but the point is there are reputable construction companies here that follow stringent safety regulations-don't tar the whole industry with the same brush.

I think that is the point maybe not all construction employess are "proper" and also maybe none of them drove or had access to a road vehicle which is quite probable.
I don't recall ever saying all construction copanies were bad or good, just stating what i heard, don't tar me with a brush or if you must at least bring out the feathers as well, its freezing cold today I need another layer

Fayz-I am in a cr@p mood anyway, so don't listen to the cranky old bag!! I'll bring you a nice wooly to the meet-up just incase you get cold. Wearing thermals under my tweed skirt keeps me warm!!

Also Fayz the law or rumour that if someone dies and you are the last person with them automatically gets you a "go to jail card" plus you maybe up for blood money maybe one of the reasons people don't deal very well here with accidents.

GAB wrote:Also Fayz the law or rumour that if someone dies and you are the last person with them automatically gets you a "go to jail card" plus you maybe up for blood money maybe one of the reasons people don't deal very well here with accidents.

the blood money is a good point, probably one of the reasons everyone tries to hide things, I never heard of the "automatically go to jail" rule.

Actually the sad reality is someone is probably sitting in an office somewhere and on his balance sheet it probably states paying blood money for 10 individuals is less than the fine for being 3 weeks late on a project so Safety is a cost without benefit attitude that really saddens me.

Many people will not help, in the UAE if a person dies on you and you are not a qualified first aider or paramedic, doctor etc then the responsibility is yours - apparently.

Also most people are lacking in the basics. There was an incident recently at the airport where an engineer in his little truck over took a fuel tanker and crashed head on into a luggage truck. He was stuck in the vehicle and was obviously injured, the tanker driver, parked up safely and ran over to help as did many other people. He told them not to move the driver as they could make any injuried worse - you should never move someone unless there's a fuel leak or something like that. Sadly the other guys didn't listen, pushed the tanker driver out of the way and just yanked him out, causing him serious spinal injuries on top of the ones he already had.

I agree that South Asians get low salaries in Hotels & construction firms ... but most of the CEO's are Expats ... they put the salary structure & the terms ...

It is not fair, i meet a waiter in a hotel who gets 2000 dhs plus accommodation ... Now that is a ripe off

i assume this only happens in private sectors and the Govt. should put strict policies towards this issue ...

U a E s A i N t wrote:I agree that South Asians get low salaries in Hotels & construction firms ... but most of the CEO's are Expats ... they put the salary structure & the terms ...

There's not many "south" Asians here. Mostly west asians.

XRW-147 wrote:

U a E s A i N t wrote:I agree that South Asians get low salaries in Hotels & construction firms ... but most of the CEO's are Expats ... they put the salary structure & the terms ...

There's not many "south" Asians here. Mostly west asians.

Ok west Asians ... <<<< but look at the core of the subject bro