IDF Vs Democracy And Freedom Of Speech

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IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 22, 2010
An editorial from Haaretz concludes:


In this the IDF harms not only one of the basic values of democratic rule, the freedom to demonstrate, but also discriminates in its policy, granting excessive liberty to lawless settlers while being heavy-handed with leftist protesters.

The IDF order is therefore a revolting and ridiculous act, and the defense minister, who commands the IDF, must take immediate action to void it.


More proof that not all Israelis approve of the acts done in their names.

IDF vs. democracy and freedom of speech

18 March 2010 | Haaretz

The Israel Defense Forces decision to declare the Palestinian villages Bil’in and Na’alin closed military zones on Fridays for the next six months is a serious anti-democratic move. The order issued by the GOC Central Command implementing this restriction is an act against the freedom to demonstrate.
The fact that the army issued such a sweeping order, and that it is supposed to be in effect for such a long period, requires an immediate petition to the High Court of Justice asking it to block this dangerous and damaging move, which lacks any justification. The freedom to demonstrate is a basic right and an extension of freedom of expression.

In recent years, the two villages have come to symbolize the struggle against the separation fence that separates the villagers from their lands. The struggle is legitimate. It contributed substantially to the High Court order to alter the route of the fence near Bil’in, a decision that the IDF has yet to implement - which is also a blatant anti-democratic failing.

The residents of the villages and their supporters - Jews, Arabs and foreign activists - must be given the right to protest and fight for their rights.

During the years of demonstrations in the two villages, 23 demonstrators have been killed, half of them minors; no Israeli soldiers have been killed.

The demonstrations themselves have mostly been non-violent, and it was the IDF and Border Police that often exercised excessive and unnecessary force. In spite of the inconvenience, the IDF must permit this protest. The alternative could be terrorism.

The IDF decision is grave from another perspective as well: There has never been such a radical move against rightist demonstrations or settlers in the territories. While settlers run amok, burning fields and uprooting trees, damaging property and spreading terror as part of their criminal “price tag” policy, the IDF and the police stand idly by. When the left wants to protest and demonstrate, the IDF declares the area to be a closed military zone.

In this the IDF harms not only one of the basic values of democratic rule, the freedom to demonstrate, but also discriminates in its policy, granting excessive liberty to lawless settlers while being heavy-handed with leftist protesters.

The IDF order is therefore a revolting and ridiculous act, and the defense minister, who commands the IDF, must take immediate action to void it.



http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1157287.html

shafique
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 22, 2010
Still didn't get treatment hey Shafique for your obesession. Here is an honest suggestion to you as a moderator. Concerning Israel the same themes keep on returning in different threads. Your posts (and also mine) are more the less the same and predictable. I am sure many just scroll thru our posts and donot read them anymore. Why not open a few threads and make them sticky?
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 22, 2010
Probably a good idea to make some of the conclusions of our discussions a sticky - however, this thread is about a new item - an editorial on the new tactic of the Israeli government.

Therefore, it's not an old subject and worthy of a new thread. You will note that I didn't start a new thread for the two recent surveys regarding Israeli discriminatory views amongst school children and Parliamentarians - but put them in an existing thread which was started by chev.

When Israel stops making newsworthy actions (good and bad), then we'll have to find something else to post about. ;)

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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 22, 2010
Probably has something to do with the weekly violent protests by Pal Arabs (and 'peace' activists) in the two villages mentioned in the article.
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 22, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mD4oA12 ... r_embedded

I like the part in the video of the peaceful pal-arab chucking a boulder at a car.

Reminds me of the Jewish woman from Muhammad's time who defended her tribe from genocide by dropping a millstone on a Muslim soldier.

I wonder what happened to her ????
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 23, 2010
shafique wrote:In this the IDF harms not only one of the basic values of democratic rule, the freedom to demonstrate, but also discriminates in its policy, granting excessive liberty to lawless settlers while being heavy-handed with leftist protesters.

The IDF order is therefore a revolting and ridiculous act, and the defense minister, who commands the IDF, must take immediate action to void it.


'eh' - given you don't deny you are more extreme religious fanatic than Al Qaeda (see Biblical War Crimes thread) - I'm not surprised you are defending what Haaretz calls actions which harm basic values.

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Shafique
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 23, 2010
I agree that dropping boulders on cars with occupants inside harms basic values. Ditto with throwing stones at Israeli civilians in Jerusalem as the video also showed.
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 23, 2010
As I said, given you are more extreme a religious fanatic than Al Qaeda - it is no surprise you find ways to justify those carry out injustices.

You seem to hate Muslims and Islam though - and haven't confirmed yet whether you are proud to be more extreme than AQ.
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 23, 2010
I agree with you that dropping boulders on civilians is an injustice.

Glad we could agree.
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 23, 2010
I didn't see that in the Haaretz report, that was dealing with the 21st century Israeli crimes. :)

I do condemn any killing/attack against civilians - and therefore am different from you in that you condone the slaughter of civilians and the enslavement of virgins (making you more extreme religious fanatic than Al Qaeda) - something you don't deny, but seem a little sheepish about when asked if you are proud of this fact.

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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 23, 2010
No, the haaretz op-ed (not report) incorrectly said that the weekly protests in Bilin and Na'alin are mostly peaceful. I've rejected this claim since I know from research that the protests in these two towns always involves violence from the Pal-Arab side - nearly 200 hundred police officers and soldiers have been injured, for instance.

It's also interesting that Pal-Arabs in Jerusalem have resorted to throwing stones at Israeli civilians, including dropping a boulder on a car with people inside.

I wonder what Muhammad would have done if these protesters were Jews and the civilians (or soldiers) were Muslim?

Oh, I don't have to wonder about that. Now do I?
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 24, 2010
Given you disagree with most people on what constitutes a crime and what doesn't - I'm not surprised you are now stating that Haaretz is wrong and your evaluation of the IDF crimes is right.

I asked you before - is it only massacres carried out by Israelites that you condone? I perhaps should extend the question to 'is it only injustices by Israelis and Israelites that you refuse to acknowledge'?

But it is a strange logic - Haaretz correctly describes the draconian measures as un-democratic and against freedom of speech, and you say they are wrong. Why. Because the 'Mooslims' are evil! :drunken:

But let's review what the Editorial says:
During the years of demonstrations in the two villages, 23 demonstrators have been killed, half of them minors; no Israeli soldiers have been killed.

The demonstrations themselves have mostly been non-violent, and it was the IDF and Border Police that often exercised excessive and unnecessary force. In spite of the inconvenience, the IDF must permit this protest. The alternative could be terrorism.


23 dead demonstrators. Half of them kids. Violence caused by IDF.

eh - takes the side of the IDF (surprise, surprise)

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Shafique
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 24, 2010
Hmm, I guess that 17 years olds aren't capable of inflicting harm.

BTW, you haven't answered my question. What did Muhammad do to people who threw stones?
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 24, 2010
Are you condoning the killing of the minors and other unarmed demonstrators, as well as the undemocratic actions Haaretz describes?

Not surprised, you are our resident 'most religously extreme' poster when it comes to condoning crimes against humanity.

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Shafique
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 24, 2010
No doubt Haaretz will be banned (or censored) soon for publishing such blatant and continous (and often unfounded) criticism of the Israeli government and army!
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 24, 2010
Unarmed demonstrators?

Not even the op-ed claims the people who died were unarmed or when lethal force was used, it was against a group of unarmed, peaceful protesters.
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 24, 2010
So you are condoning the killing of 23 unarmed demonstrators - half of them minors.

Indeed, you are living up to your reputation of being the most extreme religious fanatic here - more extreme than Al Qaeda!

Is it only killings of civilians by Israelis that you condone?

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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 24, 2010
Nothing was said the protesters were unarmed.
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 25, 2010
shafique wrote:Are you condoning the killing of the minors and other unarmed demonstrators, as well as the undemocratic actions Haaretz describes?

Not surprised, you are our resident 'most religously extreme' poster when it comes to condoning crimes against humanity.

Cheers,
Shafique


So, which of the kids killed by Israel were armed?

I hope you're not going to come out with the Israeli spin that throwing stones at armed police is justification for kids being shot?

All Mouth, No Trousers - again.

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Shafique
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 25, 2010
What did Muhammad do to stone throwers?
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 25, 2010
All Mouth, No trousers - again.

Which of the kids killed whilst protesting by the IDF were armed eh?

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Shafique
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 25, 2010
What was the woman who threw a stone at a genocidal Muslim soldier armed with when she was beheaded?
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Re: IDF vs Democracy and Freedom of Speech Mar 25, 2010
shafique wrote:All Mouth, No trousers - again.

Which of the kids killed whilst protesting by the IDF were armed eh?


Again, again... all mouth, no trousers.
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