Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai General Chat

During democratization’s “third wave,” democracy ceased being a mostly Western phenomenon and “went global.” When the third wave began in 1974, the world had only about 40 democracies, and only a few of them lay outside the West. By the time the Journal of Democracy began publishing in 1990, there were 76 electoral democracies (accounting for slightly less than half the world’s independent states). By 1995, that number had shot up to 117—three in every five states. By then, a critical mass of democracies existed in every major world region save one—the Middle East.
Moreover, every one of the world’s major cultural realms had become host to a significant democratic presence, albeit again with a single exception—the Arab world. Fifteen years later, this exception still stands.

The continuing absence of even a single democratic regime in the Arab world is a striking anomaly—the principal exception to the globalization of democracy. Why is there no Arab democracy? Indeed, why is it the case that among the sixteen independent Arab states of the Middle East and coastal North Africa, Lebanon is the only one to have ever been a democracy?

Read the entire Journal of Democracy, issue 21 here: http://www.journalofdemocracy.org/artic ... d-21-1.pdf

Interesting article - thanks for posting.

It is interesting to look at the instances of democracy at play in the region over the recent(ish) past.

Iran had a popular elected leader in Mossadegh - and he had a popular mandate to improve the lot of Iranians, and quite rightly wanted to retain more of Iran's resources for Iran (i.e. take more control over oil). He was uncermoniously deposed - but not by the people.

Algeria had elections, the popular mandate was the Islamic parties. Wasn't allowed to happen.

The Palestinians had free and fair elections and threw out a corrupt incumbent party (Fatah) and elected the alternative party, that has proved less corrupt. The result was sanctions and a couple of pretty brutal incursions and bombings.

Kuwait was liberated from invasion, but the dicators given back the reigns of power. (Could have insisted on democracy).

We can draw some conclusions from these instances, I'd imagine.

Cheers,
Shafique

Right, that President Bush (who was the one who pushed for Palestinian elections) did not realize that democratic ideals (freedom of speech/press/assembly, separation between religion and state, some sort of well established 'liberal' ideas and tradition) must first be established before simple vote tallying should be done.

Otherwise, as in Gaza, the people were replacing one thuggish movement for one that is arguably worse.

And in related news:

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... .com&twu=1

didn't adhmininjad get in on a less corruption/more jobs tickets originally - and now just baits the west.

Its something to do with the Brits when they were here before world war 1

Iran is not an arab country!

This is your basic lesson one Shaf!
that s why I got bored of these debates!

melika969 wrote:Iran is not an arab country!

This is your basic lesson one Shaf!
that s why I got bored of these debates!

Thats like kickin' the can who brought you your food in-tact!

But I agree. Get your facts right Shaffy!

melika969 wrote:Iran is not an arab country!

This is your basic lesson one Shaf!
that s why I got bored of these debates!

Haha! Good one Melika jan
As for Iran, it was one of the first countries (empire back then) to set human right laws, with freedom of religion and culture.
Compared to the West and even other neighbouring countries, Iran developed an advanced & great political structure that was totally adopted by the Islamic Khilafa =)
I still believe Iran should be a kingdom XD

Pity how it all ended like this.

Regarding Arab & Arabophonic countries, I will come back to it later with more details, but I'd rather be more objective so name the country and I will share my thoughts.

symmetric wrote:

melika969 wrote:Iran is not an arab country!

This is your basic lesson one Shaf!
that s why I got bored of these debates!

Haha! Good one Melika jan
As for Iran, it was one of the first countries (empire back then) to set human right laws, with freedom of religion and culture.
Compared to the West and even other neighbouring countries, Iran developed an advanced & great political structure that was totally adopted by the Islamic Khilafa =)
I still believe Iran should be a kingdom XD

Pity how it all ended like this.

Regarding Arab & Arabophonic countries, I will come back to it later with more details, but I'd rather be more objective so name the country and I will share my thoughts.

Name a country?
The above attached PDF file shows you 16 Arab countries that are analyzed about its absence of democracy. Its a very interesting analysis. I recommend reading that and then discuss what Arab country you think is interesting to discuss, but in relation with Dubai would be little more appropriate to this forum.

Let me kick-off the discussion a bit further. See if we can get to the root of the issue of Arab non-democracy penetration.

This analysis caught my attention:

If the problem is not economic level, maybe it is economic structure.
Of the sixteen Arab countries, eleven are “rentier” states in the sense that they depend heavily on oil and gas rents (in essence, unearned income) to keep their states afloat. These eleven states derive more than 70 percent (in some cases more than 90 percent) of their export earnings from oil and gas. Most are so awash in cash that they do not need to tax their own citizens. And that is part of the problem—they fail to develop the organic expectations of accountability that emerge when states make citizens pay taxes.

As Samuel P. Huntington observed in The Third Wave:

Oil revenues accrue to the state: they therefore increase the power of the state bureaucracy and, because they reduce or eliminate the need for taxation, they also reduce the need for the government to solicit the acquiescence of its subjects to taxation. The lower the level of taxation, the less reason for publics to demand representation. “No taxation without representation” was a political demand; “no representation without taxation” is a political reality.

In this light of day, Arab oil is clearly not a blessing! There is simply no organic will to develop a society based on individual liberty and rights. Doomed to be autocratic?

rudeboy wrote:Its something to do with the Brits when they were here before world war 1

I think you are close RB. Personally i feel its post WW2. The Arabs and Persians seem to have short memories when it suits them. Had the Allied Forces not succeed in committing millions of our grandfathers to death in defending the Middle East amongst other parts of the world and for democracy, then the whole of the Middle East would be speaking German now. Well the ones that would be left that is, because the Third Reich would have gased 90% of them.

And lets be frank, the vast majority of the Arab Nations hate each others guts, with Egypt being at the bottom of the pile. Geez, even AD and Dubai were at each others throats until the early 70's. Then of course, we have the Arabs hating the Persians, and the Persians hating the Arabs. Even Saudi and the Emirates cant agree about borders. It wasnt that long ago Saudi just took 200 meters and redefined its own border.

God help us all if Iran ever gets "the bomb".There will never be peace in the middle east, well certainly not in any of our lifetimes.

arniegang wrote:

rudeboy wrote:Its something to do with the Brits when they were here before world war 1

I think you are close RB. Personally i feel its post WW2. The Arabs and Persians seem to have short memories when it suits them. Had the Allied Forces not succeed in committing millions of our grandfathers to death in defending the Middle East amongst other parts of the world and for democracy, then the whole of the Middle East would be speaking German now. Well the ones that would be left that is, because the Third Reich would have gased 90% of them.

And lets be frank, the vast majority of the Arab Nations hate each others guts, with Egypt being at the bottom of the pile. Geez, even AD and Dubai were at each others throats until the early 70's. Then of course, we have the Arabs hating the Persians, and the Persians hating the Arabs. Even Saudi and the Emirates cant agree about borders. It wasnt that long ago Saudi just took 200 meters and redefined its own border.

God help us all if Iran ever gets "the bomb".There will never be peace in the middle east, well certainly not in any of our lifetimes.

Good point, although the British presence on the Arab peninsula has nothing to do with bringing democracy, other than protecting there own interests during WWII.

Nonetheless, you might wanna read about the bizarre UAE borders and how the British sent out the Trucial Oman scouts in landrovers to democratically ask the people to which clan they owed their allegiance in an effort to keep the peace among the clans.

Read this excerpt:

Not surprisingly, the reason lies with the British. While the Sheikhdoms were protectorates, the British only visited the ports and had little interest in the desolate interior of the Arabian peninsula. But as the protectorate relationship was scheduled to end, Britain knew the risk of the Emirs fighting over land if the borders were left undefined (Abu Dhabi and Dubai fought a border war in the interior in the 1940s, which the British arbitrated and established a neutral zone, and Sharjah’s hegemony over the north had broken down as new emirates within Sharjah’s original territory rose and fell).

To avoid these types of problems, the British sent the Trucial Oman Scouts out in Landrovers and on camels to conduct a detailed map survey and tribal census, during which time they mapped the interior and asked the rulers of each settlement village to which Emir (or Sultan, in the case of Oman) they owed their allegiance. You can read one account of mapping the desert during this time here. They used this survey to draw the borders that became the basis for the UAE borders.

Gives you a better understanding about the good will of the British to keep some form of peace and stability in an unstable region. Notwithstanding that they merely protected their own interests at first.

Robby

I merely sighted the Emirates issue as an example of arab v arab. My intention was not to use the British intervention as an example of democracy. Hey in fact, how stupid are we in handing back things? We gave Volkswagon back to the Germans didn't we

We even pulled out of the Emirates the year before oil was dicovered, well actually, that was more bad luck on our part . Just think of all those BP and Shell service stations that could be in Dubai and AD

arniegang wrote:Robby

I merely sighted the Emirates issue as an example of arab v arab. My intention was not to use the British intervention as an example of democracy. Hey in fact, how stupid are we in handing back things? We gave Volkswagon back to the Germans didn't we

We even pulled out of the Emirates the year before oil was dicovered, well actually, that was more bad luck on our part . Just think of all those BP and Shell service stations that could be in Dubai and AD

We sure screwed up there. At least Shell/BP would have had no shareholder issues (back in 2006) about overstating the oil reserves if the British kept the protectorate. You damn Brits, always in a hurray.

Ahh well, you can't have it all, right?

RobbyG wrote:

arniegang wrote:Robby

I merely sighted the Emirates issue as an example of arab v arab. My intention was not to use the British intervention as an example of democracy. Hey in fact, how stupid are we in handing back things? We gave Volkswagon back to the Germans didn't we

We even pulled out of the Emirates the year before oil was dicovered, well actually, that was more bad luck on our part . Just think of all those BP and Shell service stations that could be in Dubai and AD

We sure screwed up there. At least Shell/BP would have had no shareholder issues (back in 2006) about overstating the oil reserves if the British kept the protectorate.

Ahh well, you can't have it all, right?

Nah, the Brits have a cunning plan. We wait until Iran nukes every member of the GCC, Syria and Isreal, then we go in and sweep up, then and only then will BP go in. Shell are out of the running now because it sold out to the Dutch and theres not much call for windmills, clogs, daffodils and canabis in the Middle East.

Yes lets all bow down to brits for saving us from the german monster didnt know that the brits were something like superman.

and now USA wants to be the superwoman, saving the middle east from Irani monster

I guess afterwards we will have the Chinese Bruce Lee saving us from the dutch batty boys

Sorry 4got to mention how a malooo in a lungi will come and save the Middle East

The greatest saviour of all time, The Maloo in a blue Lungi

heres the maloo in blue lungi

YEH YEH YEH, I wonder if our brit heros could dance like that

rudeboy wrote:Yes lets all bow down to brits for saving us from the german monster didnt know that the brits were something like superman.

and now USA wants to be the superwoman, saving the middle east from Irani monster

I guess afterwards we will have the Chinese Bruce Lee saving us from the dutch batty boys

Sorry 4got to mention how a malooo in a lungi will come and save the Middle East

The greatest saviour of all time, The Maloo in a blue Lungi

heres the maloo in blue lungi

YEH YEH YEH, I wonder if our brit heros could dance like that

You shouldn't bow down mate, you should just be thankfull to the allies from saving the Arabs from the gas chambers and huge fires of burning Korans in the streets. Lets be frank it would take a lot of make up and bleach to make you guys look Aryan

And, I did said allies and not Brits to be exact.

arniegang wrote:

rudeboy wrote:Yes lets all bow down to brits for saving us from the german monster didnt know that the brits were something like superman.

and now USA wants to be the superwoman, saving the middle east from Irani monster

I guess afterwards we will have the Chinese Bruce Lee saving us from the dutch batty boys

Sorry 4got to mention how a malooo in a lungi will come and save the Middle East

The greatest saviour of all time, The Maloo in a blue Lungi

heres the maloo in blue lungi

YEH YEH YEH, I wonder if our brit heros could dance like that

You shouldn't bow down mate, you should just be thankfull to the allies from saving the Arabs from the gas chambers and huge fires of burning Korans in the streets. Lets be frank it would take a lot of make up and bleach to make you guys look Aryan

And, I did said allies and not Brits to be exact.

well I guess they wouldn't bother if we didn't have oil "thank god"

arniegang wrote:

rudeboy wrote:Yes lets all bow down to brits for saving us from the german monster didnt know that the brits were something like superman.

and now USA wants to be the superwoman, saving the middle east from Irani monster

I guess afterwards we will have the Chinese Bruce Lee saving us from the dutch batty boys

Sorry 4got to mention how a malooo in a lungi will come and save the Middle East

The greatest saviour of all time, The Maloo in a blue Lungi

heres the maloo in blue lungi

YEH YEH YEH, I wonder if our brit heros could dance like that

You shouldn't bow down mate, you should just be thankfull to the allies from saving the Arabs from the gas chambers and huge fires of burning Korans in the streets. Lets be frank it would take a lot of make up and bleach to make you guys look Aryan

And, I did said allies and not Brits to be exact.

hmmm well we didnt see the gas chambers because we didnt have a chance to experience it but we experienced bombs being thrown on us thanks to the brits and the allies

I guess if the Arabs were given a chance, they would have given ze zgermans a run for money. But guess what the Iraqi arabs are certainly giving USA and the allies a tough time in Iraq and the afghani "arabs" are being a pain in the brits and allies ass

arabs could have taught you brits and allies how to use the sword and how to chop ze germans lil heads off

arniegang wrote:
Nah, the Brits have a cunning plan. We wait until Iran nukes every member of the GCC, Syria and Isreal, then we go in and sweep up, then and only then will BP go in. Shell are out of the running now because it sold out to the Dutch and theres not much call for windmills, clogs, daffodils and canabis in the Middle East.

Nah Nah, so geht das aber nicht du kleine drecksa...


Shell out of the running? According to Fortune Magazine, Shell was the largest corporation in the world in 2009! Forbes placed it second. One of the six supermajors (vertically integrated private sector oil exploration, natural gas, and petroleum product marketing companies) in the world. Right after Exxon Mobil.

Royal Dutch Shell has its headquarters in The Hague. Last time I checked that was still Holland (Shell plc is 'just' our English subdivision for the London stock exchange)

Ok ok, I'll give you a penny.
Just about month or so ago, Shell decided to halt its tar sands in Canada for economic reasons. BP's market share increased because of that. Shell is lagging in restructuring, but has put its future output on deep sea drilling and gas to liquids (GTL) in Qatar.



Hows that for competitiveness in a tiny country like ours. Taxes of a Company are paid where its headquarters resides...



Just teasing...

thank god the dutch didnt come into the middle east otherwise we all would have been batty seriously

rudeboy wrote:

arniegang wrote:

rudeboy wrote:Yes lets all bow down to brits for saving us from the german monster didnt know that the brits were something like superman.

and now USA wants to be the superwoman, saving the middle east from Irani monster

I guess afterwards we will have the Chinese Bruce Lee saving us from the dutch batty boys

Sorry 4got to mention how a malooo in a lungi will come and save the Middle East

The greatest saviour of all time, The Maloo in a blue Lungi

heres the maloo in blue lungi

YEH YEH YEH, I wonder if our brit heros could dance like that

You shouldn't bow down mate, you should just be thankfull to the allies from saving the Arabs from the gas chambers and huge fires of burning Korans in the streets. Lets be frank it would take a lot of make up and bleach to make you guys look Aryan

And, I did said allies and not Brits to be exact.

hmmm well we didnt see the gas chambers because we didnt have a chance to experience it but we experienced bombs being thrown on us thanks to the brits and the allies

I guess if the Arabs were given a chance, they would have given ze zgermans a run for money. But guess what the Iraqi arabs are certainly giving USA and the allies a tough time in Iraq and the afghani "arabs" are being a pain in the brits and allies peach

arabs could have taught you brits and allies how to use the sword and how to chop ze germans lil heads off

Typical Arab Response.

The Arabs never had a chance because 99% of them at that time were living in tents, were totally illiterate and fed off camel droppings. I suppose they could have stampeded their herds of camels at the onslaught of Rommel i suppose, or even thrown dried camel dung left over from lunch at the tanks.

I retract my previous comment re burning the Koran in the streets because a/ there were few steets and b/ because of their illiterateness no one knew off the koran, if they did no one could read it anyway.

rudeboy wrote:thank god the dutch didnt come into the middle east otherwise we all would have been batty seriously

I feel flattered. If we did that, I guess I'd be very sheikhy rich now...wait, wait... lets get my ancestor out of the closet; LOL



Zippin' shakes all day long on a Dubai beach...secular state, democratic beaches full of naked woman logically

the arabs are already showing the world what they can do to a superpower like USA (with all the latest hitech weapons) in iraq and afghanistan. so we can all guess what the arabs would have done with the germans and their old tanks

rommel and his tanks would have had a tough time getting stuck in the desert whereas how can we 4get the Arabian Horse

and how can we 4get the arab-turk revolt

come on arnie you underestimate the arabs.

rudeboy wrote:the arabs are already showing the world what they can do to a superpower like USA (with all the latest hitech weapons) in iraq and afghanistan. so we can all guess what the arabs would have done with the germans and their old tanks

rommel and his tanks would have had a tough time getting stuck in the desert whereas how can we 4get the Arabian Horse

and how can we 4get the arab-turk revolt

come on arnie you underestimate the arabs.

But in the end it all come to: Arabs have the Oil, but the West has the matches.

RobbyG wrote:

rudeboy wrote:thank god the dutch didnt come into the middle east otherwise we all would have been batty seriously

I feel flattered. If we did that, I guess I'd be very sheikhy rich now...wait, wait... lets get my ancestor out of the closet;



Zippin' shakes all day long on a Dubai beach...secular state, democratic beaches full of naked woman logically

sorry to spoil you party, but why is he squeezing his bosom

herve wrote:

rudeboy wrote:the arabs are already showing the world what they can do to a superpower like USA (with all the latest hitech weapons) in iraq and afghanistan. so we can all guess what the arabs would have done with the germans and their old tanks

rommel and his tanks would have had a tough time getting stuck in the desert whereas how can we 4get the Arabian Horse

and how can we 4get the arab-turk revolt

come on arnie you underestimate the arabs.

But in the end it all come to: Arabs have the Oil, but the West has the matches.

yeh but it looks like most of the west is in Arab land, apart from you herve ofcourse

rudeboy wrote:the arabs are already showing the world what they can do to a superpower like USA (with all the latest hitech weapons) in iraq and afghanistan. so we can all guess what the arabs would have done with the germans and their old tanks

rommel and his tanks would have had a tough time getting stuck in the desert whereas how can we 4get the Arabian Horse

and how can we 4get the arab-turk revolt

come on arnie you underestimate the arabs.

Hold on...Arabian 'horses' against Rommels tanks? You mean these wobbly stilts?

nope here u go

Now thats a fine, lean, and above all, a strong Arabian stud. SOLD.

I have some democracy to offer in exchange. I even put some civil rights with it.

Do we have a deal?