Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai General Chat

rudeboy · Jan 21, 2010

they should think about moving to pakistan, they would be a hit there

Misery Called Life · Jan 22, 2010

RobbyG wrote:
uaekid wrote:
RobbyG wrote:So funny indeed. Then why is Dubai still 'selling icecream'

Cmon then, change the media law in Dubai and consider it pork...

ahhh the ignorance...

who needs dubai media when we have you and DFs, don't underestimate your self robbyg

You slavedriver

You know here's another way of looking at this entire slave argument...

I call it dumping(economics term). Dumping from countries like India, Pakistan, and some countries in Africa. For instance tomorrow lets say a Chinese company was selling air-conditioners at a price so low that it would drive out competitors. Then after a while they up the prices again. They would be charged with dumping right? This is a lot like that.

From certain countries labor comes cheap. Everyone knew about it, so did their governments (Indian,Pakistani). Did they do anything about it? Nopes. Why? For two reasons, those governments really couldn't careless about their lower class and secondly it was in a way a dumping policy. Very smart if you ask me cos no one even got a whiff of it.
Now of all a sudden the Indian and Filipino government suddenly creates a minimum wage for domestic workers, something like a 1000 bucks a month. So why not enforce a minimum wage for all unskilled workers? Point is it was only a poll gimmick. These countries need Gulf remittances. Infact through many a crisis Indian, Paki and Filipino economies have come out unscathed because of Gulf remittances. So putting the blame entirely on the Gulf would be unfair.

RobbyG · Jan 22, 2010

Well I think you are mixing a thing or two regarding the purpose of labour.

First of all, slaves have no rights, no income, lousy living conditions and inhumane workhours.
However, serfs are in essence paid labour slaves, but for wages that won't increase their standard of living, but merely sustain it until they get unemployed and have to start all over.

Second, the reason why people want to work, is to increase their standard of living for themselves and their children. People don't work just because they enjoy working. Not at all. People work so they can enjoy the fruits of their labor in the future by saving for spare time and retirement.

Savings are the result of personal sacrifice. If the savings motive can't be fulfilled because of wages ($2-$7 dollars a day) that are too low in a nation with Western style pricelevels, then a worker is bound to work without improving his personal situation, which is closely related to slave labour.

Also remember that inflation is a huge problem. When you have 10 to 15 percent inflation in consumer goods during the past years in the UAE, your wages and savings will never increase at the same rate to counter the loss in buying power. For low skilled workers, this kind of environment is nearly impossible to come by unless the guest-state provides certain subsidized services for these hard working, low earning workers. If the state does make use of these worker services, using the profit motive on e.g. real estate entirely on the back of these workers, then there is a moral obligation to these workers.

Without some support in living conditions, these workers are merely working to put food up every day, unable to work against currency inflation, pay Dubai style bank fees for remittances, no joy in life, no eating out every once in a while, no nothing but hard work etc. etc.

In that case they are, in essence, serfs in a serfdom.

ps: Welfare is obtained when labour is competitive. Minimum wages limit the employer in taking on new (unskilled) employees, as his companies productivity will decline and costs go up. Therefore, minimum wages in a true capitalist society will result in higher unemployment than when wages are set by market demand.

pps: Dubai lacks an important aspects for overall welfare for low skilled workers. There are monopolies but no unions for workers to organize wages. Therefore, the employers earn big time, while the workers welfare is denied. Thats the opposite of welfare and increases the gap between rich and poor. Working for the elites in their serfdom.

uaekid · Jan 22, 2010

there is a diff in the case of workers in the UAE, they are or I guess you are talking about the expat workers, are not the country obligation to provide them with welfare ! I thought it is mainly a country obligation toward it's locals not foreigners ! if I'm correct, welfare is not denied as robbyg stated ! the UAE environment developed to fit every one with diff wages .

I'm all with setting a minimum wages in this country, but how much ?

http://www.cityscapeintelligence.com/pa ... age-in-gcc

RobbyG · Jan 22, 2010

uaekid wrote:there is a diff in the case of workers in the UAE, they are or I guess you are talking about the expat workers, are not the country obligation to provide them with welfare ! I thought it is mainly a country obligation toward it's locals not foreigners ! if I'm correct, welfare is not denied as robbyg stated ! the UAE environment developed to fit every one with diff wages .

I'm all with setting a minimum wages in this country, but how much ?

http://www.cityscapeintelligence.com/pa ... age-in-gcc

I'm not talking about Western expats. They won't even come when their offered salaries won't improve their personal situation. I'm talking about low skilled workers from India, Bangladesh, Pakistan etc who are handled like slaves by your national government, denying them the right for organized unions and arbitrage.
There's no government regulation being enforced in an organical manner. The Western press provides the initial attention to every real issue, unfortunately. Now human rights activist are pressing for more humane conditions and rightfully so because your government does not pick up its moral responsibility.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favour of minimum wages in Dubai because of the absence of organized unions. To counter the monopolies you have to provide some level of wages that represent the minimum standard of living in Dubai. If organized negotations and demonstrations againt exploitments are not allowed by the system, you have to find other ways of creating welfare in a fascist state.

There is no other way, other than embracing capitalism without protectionst restrictions, although that seems hard nowadays for even the most developed nations on this planet. :wink:

uaekid · Jan 22, 2010

RobbyG wrote:
uaekid wrote:there is a diff in the case of workers in the UAE, they are or I guess you are talking about the expat workers, are not the country obligation to provide them with welfare ! I thought it is mainly a country obligation toward it's locals not foreigners ! if I'm correct, welfare is not denied as robbyg stated ! the UAE environment developed to fit every one with diff wages .

I'm all with setting a minimum wages in this country, but how much ?

http://www.cityscapeintelligence.com/pa ... age-in-gcc

I'm not talking about Western expats. They won't even come when their offered salaries won't improve their personal situation. I'm talking about low skilled workers from India, Bangladesh, Pakistan etc who are handled like slaves by your national government, denying them the right for organized unions and arbitrage.
There's no government regulation being enforced in an organical manner. The Western press provides the initial attention to every real issue, unfortunately. Now human rights activist are pressing for more humane conditions and rightfully so because your government does not pick up its moral responsibility.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favour of minimum wages in Dubai because of the absence of organized unions. To counter the monopolies you have to provide some level of wages that represent the minimum standard of living in Dubai. If organized negotations and demonstrations againt exploitments are not allowed by the system, you have to find other ways of creating welfare in a fascist state.

There is no other way, other than embracing capitalism without protectionst restrictions, although that seems hard nowadays for even the most developed nations on this planet.

Sorry for embarrassing you with my last replay. robbyg LOOOOL you are one stressed guy ... I know your view of my country ,nothing new, however this is not my question, again how much do you think is fair salary ? and If you ask those you call slaves, they love us and many ties are between us and them ,they don't need your lecture in what is best for them.we are taking more care and contribution for them , their economy and unemployment rate than you setting all day preaching behind your PC.
like I said before pointing fingers is not constructive so again:
1- how much do you think is fair salary ?
2-and if salary wages are raised then it will meet other construction workers nationalities (slaves as you call them) standers which will lead to more competitors from other regions to compete with those poor ppl you are so much concern about and will lead to them losing their jobs since companies will prefer the new comers who might be more educated ...keep in mind they have no where to go but the GCCs countries !!

you see robbyg you are always looking at the issue from one angel, there are so many facts to consider but I guess to you it is just eating ice cream. :mrgreen:

r

RobbyG · Jan 22, 2010

Haha my particular angle is open to positive influences if you provide them to me. I'll be the first to acknowledge then, but the fact remains, you guys made a real mess over there. So don't blame me for pulling the curtains wideeeee open

As for minimum wages, I'm no expert in human resources. I do know that you should value your employees if they provide for you.

Hiding under the disquise of the profit motive isn't enough to deny some moral obligations to the guestworkers. You and I know that. Time for you to promote some welfare for the unfortunates.

Lets start with doubling salaries and keeping them up with real inflation rates...would be a nice gesture in a recession from a media perspective... hint hint

uaekid · Jan 22, 2010

RobbyG wrote:Haha my particular angle is open to positive influences if you provide them to me. I'll be the first to acknowledge then, but the fact remains, you guys made a real mess over there. So don't blame me for pulling the curtains wideeeee open

As for minimum wages, I'm no expert in human resources. I do know that you should value your employees if they provide for you.

Hiding under the disquise of the profit motive isn't enough to deny some moral obligations to the guestworkers. You and I know that. Time for you to promote some welfare for the unfortunates.

Lets start with doubling salaries and keeping them up with real inflation rates...would be a nice gesture in a recession from a media perspective... hint hint

if you are not an expert of human resources then how did you figure they are not being paid enough ? ? you are really just eating ice cream here robbyg

what they are getting here is what that their countries stated as a minimum wage !and since when moralality = money in this world ?
"start with doubling " !! this is not how countries sets minimum wages beside you didn't answer # 2 which is related to # 1.
I guess you are not the one to discuss this with robbyg. I'll wait for the ones living here to answer this to come up with a constructive conclusion of the issue .beside I'm too drunk to type anything

see you to tomorrjghjkbkfnnowwwwwwwww ...... oh boy :drunken:

RobbyG · Jan 22, 2010

uaekid wrote:
RobbyG wrote:Haha my particular angle is open to positive influences if you provide them to me. I'll be the first to acknowledge then, but the fact remains, you guys made a real mess over there. So don't blame me for pulling the curtains wideeeee open

As for minimum wages, I'm no expert in human resources. I do know that you should value your employees if they provide for you.

Hiding under the disquise of the profit motive isn't enough to deny some moral obligations to the guestworkers. You and I know that. Time for you to promote some welfare for the unfortunates.

Lets start with doubling salaries and keeping them up with real inflation rates...would be a nice gesture in a recession from a media perspective... hint hint

if you are not an expert of human resources then how did you figure they are not being paid enough ? ? you are really just eating ice cream here robbyg what they are getting here is what that their countries stated as a minimum wage !and since when moralality = money in this world ?
"start with doubling " !! this is not how countries sets minimum wages beside you didn't answer # 2 which is related to # 1.
I guess you are not the one to discuss this with robbyg. I'll wait for the ones living here to answer this to come up with a constructive conclusion of the issue .beside I'm too drunk to type anything

see you to tomorrjghjkbkfnnowwwwwwwww ...... oh boy

Just look at this drunken sailorrrrr :mrgreen:

hickupppp

uaekid · Jan 24, 2010

comaan guys most of you talked about this issue , I thought you are concern about the poor construction workers "slaves" so lets find them a solution , maybe someone will notes our discussion ? coman don't make me believe my self in saying non of your discussions is constructive.

so since robbyg did not add anything value to it , I'll put the questions up again :

1- how much do you think is fair salary ?

2- if salary wages are raised then it will meet other construction workers nationalities (slaves as you call them) standers which will lead to more competitors from other regions to compete with those poor ppl you are so much concern about and will lead to them losing their jobs since companies will prefer the new comers who might be more educated ...keep in mind they have no where to go but the GCCs countries !!

Roadtester · Jan 24, 2010

uaekid wrote:there is a diff in the case of workers in the UAE, they are or I guess you are talking about the expat workers, are not the country obligation to provide them with welfare ! I thought it is mainly a country obligation toward it's locals not foreigners ! if I'm correct, welfare is not denied as robbyg stated ! the UAE environment developed to fit every one with diff wages .

I'm all with setting a minimum wages in this country, but how much ?

http://www.cityscapeintelligence.com/pa ... age-in-gcc

I have met indian sub continent workers just signing up to jobs without even checking the wages/conditons they were going to get! also Indian managers turning off the aircon in summer during restricted working hours to save money. So you got some caste/race issues as well.

Just a little transparancy for starters would help. People should be told (task in itself when u factor in illiteracy etc) upfront by recruiters;

:- how much they will get paid,
:-the housing and also
:- what 'cost of living actually means'.

RobbyG · Jan 24, 2010

Good points Roadtester.

Transparancy towards workers is key, so they can decide what is best for them and their families.

As for UAE kids repeated question:

1. Ask an independant HR expert and talk to Human Rights Watch for moral obligations, as you lack them all it appears...

2. The argument that you'll take on other 'more educated' workers is nonsense, because they would revolt more easily in response to exploitment and your variable costs will go up at the same time. Doesn't hold ground thinking from your groggy 'profit motive' perspective.

uaekid · Jan 24, 2010

Roadtester wrote:
uaekid wrote:there is a diff in the case of workers in the UAE, they are or I guess you are talking about the expat workers, are not the country obligation to provide them with welfare ! I thought it is mainly a country obligation toward it's locals not foreigners ! if I'm correct, welfare is not denied as robbyg stated ! the UAE environment developed to fit every one with diff wages .

I'm all with setting a minimum wages in this country, but how much ?

http://www.cityscapeintelligence.com/pa ... age-in-gcc

I have met indian sub continent workers just signing up to jobs without even checking the wages/conditons they were going to get! also Indian managers turning off the aircon in summer during restricted working hours to save money. So you got some caste/race issues as well.

Just a little transparancy for starters would help. People should be told (task in itself when u factor in illiteracy etc) upfront by recruiters;

:- how much they will get paid,
:-the housing and also
:- what 'cost of living actually means'.

if you would ask any of them Roadtester they already know those points !!and I can't recall any complains about them, they have been coming here for 40 years ! not to mention that recruiters at their own countries that makes those points clear for them before coming here.

Bora Bora · Jan 25, 2010

uaekid wrote:
Roadtester wrote:
uaekid wrote:there is a diff in the case of workers in the UAE, they are or I guess you are talking about the expat workers, are not the country obligation to provide them with welfare ! I thought it is mainly a country obligation toward it's locals not foreigners ! if I'm correct, welfare is not denied as robbyg stated ! the UAE environment developed to fit every one with diff wages .

I'm all with setting a minimum wages in this country, but how much ?

http://www.cityscapeintelligence.com/pa ... age-in-gcc

I have met indian sub continent workers just signing up to jobs without even checking the wages/conditons they were going to get! also Indian managers turning off the aircon in summer during restricted working hours to save money. So you got some caste/race issues as well.

Just a little transparancy for starters would help. People should be told (task in itself when u factor in illiteracy etc) upfront by recruiters;

:- how much they will get paid,
:-the housing and also
:- what 'cost of living actually means'.

if you would ask any of them Roadtester they already know those points !!and I can't recall any complains about them, they have been coming here for 40 years ! not to mention that recruiters at their own countries that makes those points clear for them before coming here.

Where do you get your information from Kid???

uaekid · Jan 25, 2010

From being and living with them for 30 years,? you see some call them slaves but we call them friends . .

XPT · Jan 25, 2010

uaekid wrote:comaan guys most of you talked about this issue , I thought you are concern about the poor construction workers "slaves" so lets find them a solution , maybe someone will notes our discussion ? coman don't make me believe my self in saying non of your discussions is constructive.

so since robbyg did not add anything value to it , I'll put the questions up again :

1- how much do you think is fair salary ?

20 dirhams per hour.

2- if salary wages are raised then it will meet other construction workers nationalities (slaves as you call them) standers which will lead to more competitors from other regions to compete with those poor ppl you are so much concern about and will lead to them losing their jobs since companies will prefer the new comers who might be more educated ...keep in mind they have no where to go but the GCCs countries !!

I don't understand what you are getting at? Please rephrase and i'll answer.

Bora Bora · Jan 25, 2010

uaekid wrote:
Roadtester wrote:I'm all with setting a minimum wages in this country, but how much ?

I have met indian sub continent workers just signing up to jobs without even checking the wages/conditons they were going to get! also Indian managers turning off the aircon in summer during restricted working hours to save money. So you got some caste/race issues as well.

Just a little transparancy for starters would help. People should be told (task in itself when u factor in illiteracy etc) upfront by recruiters;

:- how much they will get paid,
:-the housing and also
:- what 'cost of living actually means'.

if you would ask any of them Roadtester they already know those points !!and I can't recall any complains about them, they have been coming here for 40 years ! not to mention that recruiters at their own countries that makes those points clear for them before coming here.

Well maybe no one complained directly to YOU!!! Do you recall wehre it got to a point where laborers were demonstrating in the UAE about poor living conditions and salaries not being paid?? Those were not the actions of "happy campers". More likely "unhappy modern-day-slaves". That is a form of "complaint".

Your words to me in the Doha Debates thread:

but seriously hon, the country can't do allot with the companies greed for cash, one example is that we outsourced one of our tasks and in the contract we forced the company to a specific salaries to our employees that will be transferred to them, they agreed to it but when the deal was signed we were surprised to know that they deducted half of that salary for so many fees toward their employees !! and shockingly some how the employees agreed to those fees and terms and still working for that company .

It seems to me that they were told one thing and actually it was a different outcome. It was shocking that the employees agreed to being screwed??? What choices did they have Kid?? What were their options??? What did your company do about it?? As long as your company got paid, did they really care that there wasn't full disclosure as to the deductions from the laborers salaries? Answer to all: NONE and NO!!!!

You and everyone else who think that laborers are living better here in the UAE than they would back home and aren't suffering: live their life for one month - during the summer. Even under the "best" of circumstances, you wouldn't survive 1 day, never mind 1 week!!! As for living better - how can being enslaved be better than being free??

RobbyG · Jan 25, 2010

uaekid wrote:From being and living with them for 30 years,? you see some call them slaves but we call them friends . .

Friends my a... First of all, fifty years ago you were still strolling around from oasis to oasis on the back of a camel and second, if your so called 'serf friends' earned the same as you do back at home, they wouldn't be your friend since they would search for genuine ones back at home in India and Bangladesh.

However, ignorant people don't see that reality. One day your Fata Morgana will end and its fading already in case you haven't noticed...

Thank your neighbour AD for being capable a bank of oil dollars to keep your spirit up. Thank your friends for constructing plenty of buildings to stroll into when needed. Thank the expats for the knowledge and technology they bring in exchange for an oil dollar payroll. Without all of them, you'd be strolling around again like in the early days.

Without them, you wouldn't even know how to tie your own laces Kid. You are too dependant on foreign investments, servants and backstop oil dollars. Enough said.

sage & onion · Jan 25, 2010

XPT wrote:
uaekid wrote:comaan guys most of you talked about this issue , I thought you are concern about the poor construction workers "slaves" so lets find them a solution , maybe someone will notes our discussion ? coman don't make me believe my self in saying non of your discussions is constructive.

so since robbyg did not add anything value to it , I'll put the questions up again :

1- how much do you think is fair salary ?

20 dirhams per hour.

2- if salary wages are raised then it will meet other construction workers nationalities (slaves as you call them) standers which will lead to more competitors from other regions to compete with those poor ppl you are so much concern about and will lead to them losing their jobs since companies will prefer the new comers who might be more educated ...keep in mind they have no where to go but the GCCs countries !!

I don't understand what you are getting at? Please rephrase and i'll answer.

At AED20.00 Per Hour, you just killed the market stone dead, that would equal a monthly salary of +/- AED4,000.00 PM which is approximatley 5-6 times the present level for a labourer.

capsicum · Jan 25, 2010

Don't you read the news, the market is already dead.

arniegang · Jan 26, 2010

sage & onion wrote:
XPT wrote:
uaekid wrote:comaan guys most of you talked about this issue , I thought you are concern about the poor construction workers "slaves" so lets find them a solution , maybe someone will notes our discussion ? coman don't make me believe my self in saying non of your discussions is constructive.

so since robbyg did not add anything value to it , I'll put the questions up again :

1- how much do you think is fair salary ?

20 dirhams per hour.

2- if salary wages are raised then it will meet other construction workers nationalities (slaves as you call them) standers which will lead to more competitors from other regions to compete with those poor ppl you are so much concern about and will lead to them losing their jobs since companies will prefer the new comers who might be more educated ...keep in mind they have no where to go but the GCCs countries !!

I don't understand what you are getting at? Please rephrase and i'll answer.

At AED20.00 Per Hour, you just killed the market stone dead, that would equal a monthly salary of +/- AED4,000.00 PM which is approximatley 5-6 times the present level for a labourer.

Sage

I hate to disagree with you but the Market killed itself through greed and stupidity. There was plenty of leeway to pay construction workers a fair and reasonable wage in the years 2002-2008.

Emaar and the other Master Developers were doing very nicely when selling 1 bed appartments for 500/600k dhs in 2002/3, dont you think that it would have been reasonable to pay the same workers a bit more, given the hugeeeeeeeeeee profits Emaar, Nakheel and DP made during the boom period, in selling the same properties for say 1.5 - 2million dhs.

And dont say "ahhhhhh well construction costs spiralled in the same period" - it didn't.

I'll give you a good and true example. In 2004 the security guards working for Emrill earned the same dhm per hour that they earn't in 2008. Emaar's management charges rose 275% in the same period.

arniegang · Jan 26, 2010

XPT wrote:
sage & onion wrote:If that is the way you feel about Dubai, why in heaven do you grace us with your honourable presence? After all said and done, this is DUBAI FORUMS.

For no other reason that I am free and choose not only what I can say but where I live and there is nothing you can do about it. You really must think being a moderator is something important dont you?

By the way, shouldn't you, as an Osama Bin Laden admirer (based on your avatar) be in a cave somewhere? I imagine that now that the CIA and all are concentrating on Yemen (quite near) they'll be monitoring you (for starteres they know exactly where you live). Enjoy.

Big Yawn

Change the CD Concs will you, or ...... please please think about re-inventing your DHH Forum. You and Ian can then continue to bore each other or your 4 visitors a week

uaekid · Jan 26, 2010

lets keep in mind that Dubai alone has over 3000 construction companies so I would guess the UAE has a round 10,000 + , now how many can afford this giving salary 4000 per worker as of today economic situation ? doesn't the decision makers has to take all relevant points ?

impacts:

small and midum companies will shut down .
many will lose their jobs.
big companies will play monoply on the market .
higher realstate prices.
inflation.

Arguments in favor of Minimum Wage Laws
Supporters of the minimum wage claim it has these effects:

Increases the standard of living for the poorest and most vulnerable class in society and raises average.[1]
Motivates and encourages employee to work harder. (Contrast with welfare transfer payments.)[28]
Does not have budget consequence on government. "Neither taxes nor public sector borrowing requirements rise." (Contrast with negative income taxes such as the EITC.)[28]
Minimum wage is administratively simple; workers only need to report violations of wages less than minimum, minimizing a need for a large enforcement agency.[28]
Stimulates consumption, by putting more money in the hands of low-income people who spend their entire paychecks.[1]
Increases the work ethic of those who earn very little, as employers demand more return from the higher cost of hiring these employees.[1]
Decreases the cost of government social welfare programs by increasing incomes for the lowest-paid.[1]
Does not have a substantial effect on unemployment compared to most other economic factors [29], and so does not put any extra pressure on welfare systems.
A study of U.S. states showed that businesses' annual and average payrolls grow faster and employment grew at a faster rate in states with a minimum wage.[30] The study showed a correlation, but did not claim to prove causation.
Historical evidence shows that at current levels, it neither hurts businesses nor reduces job creation.[31]

Arguments against Minimum Wage Laws
Opponents of the minimum wage claim it has these effects:

As a labor market analogue of political-economic protectionism, it excludes low cost competitors from labor markets, hampers firms in reducing wage costs during trade downturns, generates various industrial-economic inefficiencies as well as unemployment, poverty, and price rises, and generally dysfunctions.[32]
Hurts small business more than large business.[33]
Reduces quantity demanded of workers, either through a reduction in the number of hours worked by individuals, or through a reduction in the number of jobs.[34][35]
Reduces profit margins of business owners employing minimum wage workers, thus encouraging a move to businesses that do not employ low-skill workers.[36]
Businesses try to compensate by raising the prices of the goods being sold thus causing inflation and increasing the costs of goods and services produced.[37][38]
Does not improve the situation of those in poverty, it benefits some at the expense of the poorest and least productive.[39]
Is a limit on the freedom of both employers and employees, and can result in the exclusion of certain groups from the labor force.[40]
Businesses spend less on training their employees.[41]
Is less effective than other methods (e.g. the Earned Income Tax Credit) at reducing poverty, and is more damaging to businesses than those other methods.[41]
Discourages further education among the poor by enticing people to enter the job market.[41]
Leads to the outsourcing of domestic manufacturing jobs to other countries.[42]

so based on the above and the current market and economic statues, which do you see fits more or now ?

uaekid · Jan 26, 2010

Bora Bora wrote:
uaekid wrote:
Roadtester wrote:I'm all with setting a minimum wages in this country, but how much ?

I have met indian sub continent workers just signing up to jobs without even checking the wages/conditons they were going to get! also Indian managers turning off the aircon in summer during restricted working hours to save money. So you got some caste/race issues as well.

Just a little transparancy for starters would help. People should be told (task in itself when u factor in illiteracy etc) upfront by recruiters;

:- how much they will get paid,
:-the housing and also
:- what 'cost of living actually means'.

if you would ask any of them Roadtester they already know those points !!and I can't recall any complains about them, they have been coming here for 40 years ! not to mention that recruiters at their own countries that makes those points clear for them before coming here.

Well maybe no one complained directly to YOU!!! Do you recall wehre it got to a point where laborers were demonstrating in the UAE about poor living conditions and salaries not being paid?? Those were not the actions of "happy campers". More likely "unhappy modern-day-slaves". That is a form of "complaint".

Your words to me in the Doha Debates thread:

but seriously hon, the country can't do allot with the companies greed for cash, one example is that we outsourced one of our tasks and in the contract we forced the company to a specific salaries to our employees that will be transferred to them, they agreed to it but when the deal was signed we were surprised to know that they deducted half of that salary for so many fees toward their employees !! and shockingly some how the employees agreed to those fees and terms and still working for that company .

It seems to me that they were told one thing and actually it was a different outcome. It was shocking that the employees agreed to being screwed??? What choices did they have Kid?? What were their options??? What did your company do about it?? As long as your company got paid, did they really care that there wasn't full disclosure as to the deductions from the laborers salaries? Answer to all: NONE and NO!!!!

You and everyone else who think that laborers are living better here in the UAE than they would back home and aren't suffering: live their life for one month - during the summer. Even under the "best" of circumstances, you wouldn't survive 1 day, never mind 1 week!!! As for living better - how can being enslaved be better than being free??

Not relevant and stop calling me hon !

XPT · Jan 26, 2010

arniegang wrote:
XPT wrote:
sage & onion wrote:If that is the way you feel about Dubai, why in heaven do you grace us with your honourable presence? After all said and done, this is DUBAI FORUMS.

For no other reason that I am free and choose not only what I can say but where I live and there is nothing you can do about it. You really must think being a moderator is something important dont you?

By the way, shouldn't you, as an Osama Bin Laden admirer (based on your avatar) be in a cave somewhere? I imagine that now that the CIA and all are concentrating on Yemen (quite near) they'll be monitoring you (for starteres they know exactly where you live). Enjoy.

Big Yawn

Change the CD Concs will you, or ...... please please think about re-inventing your DHH Forum. You and Ian can then continue to bore each other or your 4 visitors a week

uh?

a few weeks after i signed in a got a strange e-mail which i ignored thinking it was one of those nuts one often finds in a forum. it is starting to make sense now...

obviously you have many hang ups not just a power trip out of being a moderator. Oh dear.

Bora Bora · Jan 26, 2010

uaekid wrote:if you would ask any of them Roadtester they already know those points !!and I can't recall any complains about them, they have been coming here for 40 years ! not to mention that recruiters at their own countries that makes those points clear for them before coming here.

Well maybe no one complained directly to YOU!!! Do you recall wehre it got to a point where laborers were demonstrating in the UAE about poor living conditions and salaries not being paid?? Those were not the actions of "happy campers". More likely "unhappy modern-day-slaves". That is a form of "complaint".

Your words to me in the Doha Debates thread:

but seriously hon, the country can't do allot with the companies greed for cash, one example is that we outsourced one of our tasks and in the contract we forced the company to a specific salaries to our employees that will be transferred to them, they agreed to it but when the deal was signed we were surprised to know that they deducted half of that salary for so many fees toward their employees !! and shockingly some how the employees agreed to those fees and terms and still working for that company .

It seems to me that they were told one thing and actually it was a different outcome. It was shocking that the employees agreed to being screwed??? What choices did they have Kid?? What were their options??? What did your company do about it?? As long as your company got paid, did they really care that there wasn't full disclosure as to the deductions from the laborers salaries? Answer to all: NONE and NO!!!!

You and everyone else who think that laborers are living better here in the UAE than they would back home and aren't suffering: live their life for one month - during the summer. Even under the "best" of circumstances, you wouldn't survive 1 day, never mind 1 week!!! As for living better - how can being enslaved be better than being free??[/quote]

Not relevant and stop calling me hon ![/quote]

Now that was evasive DEAR. It is very relevant. If you noticed I quoted you from this thread. Oh, I get it. Don't have an answer do you DEAR??

uaekid · Jan 27, 2010

Bora Bora wrote:
uaekid wrote:if you would ask any of them Roadtester they already know those points !!and I can't recall any complains about them, they have been coming here for 40 years ! not to mention that recruiters at their own countries that makes those points clear for them before coming here.

Well maybe no one complained directly to YOU!!! Do you recall wehre it got to a point where laborers were demonstrating in the UAE about poor living conditions and salaries not being paid?? Those were not the actions of "happy campers". More likely "unhappy modern-day-slaves". That is a form of "complaint".

Your words to me in the Doha Debates thread:

but seriously hon, the country can't do allot with the companies greed for cash, one example is that we outsourced one of our tasks and in the contract we forced the company to a specific salaries to our employees that will be transferred to them, they agreed to it but when the deal was signed we were surprised to know that they deducted half of that salary for so many fees toward their employees !! and shockingly some how the employees agreed to those fees and terms and still working for that company .

It seems to me that they were told one thing and actually it was a different outcome. It was shocking that the employees agreed to being screwed??? What choices did they have Kid?? What were their options??? What did your company do about it?? As long as your company got paid, did they really care that there wasn't full disclosure as to the deductions from the laborers salaries? Answer to all: NONE and NO!!!!

You and everyone else who think that laborers are living better here in the UAE than they would back home and aren't suffering: live their life for one month - during the summer. Even under the "best" of circumstances, you wouldn't survive 1 day, never mind 1 week!!! As for living better - how can being enslaved be better than being free??

Not relevant and stop calling me hon ![/quote]

Now that was evasive DEAR. It is very relevant. If you noticed I quoted you from this thread. Oh, I get it. Don't have an answer do you DEAR??[/quote]

it is amazing how you talk in general of all of them when even their country ambassadors thinks other wise ! could you be clear why are you calling them slaves ? they chose those salaries before they came in ! they will keep doing so and has been doing it for all those years. of course it is hard but this is life , it's not like we caused it or want it them to live like this. there are different living statues for everyone, I would change it for their benefits if I could but its simply not a just "a wish".

yes it is hard work, it is construction work, and yes it is hot and you certainly don't expect us to ask the son to cool down !they had salaries problems with few companies and the country did something about it and the same goes to their housing conditions ,I really don't know what you are getting at or you attached those circumstances to us !

you always use "it seems" and maybe" those are not good words when you are trying to prove a points. now ,yes as a local we have been living among those you call slaves unlike you who barely know your doorman name, those ppl are part of our society and the real contributor to it.

yes I have been living in their conditions not ones but every year when we worked and slept for months in external sites sleeping in caravans and working in the summer heat ,how did you experience their living hon ? from DF posts or was it from watching them work from your balcony ? get a hold of your self .and find a nother subject you know one or two things about.

Bora Bora · Jan 27, 2010

uaekid wrote:
Bora Bora wrote:
uaekid wrote:if you would ask any of them Roadtester they already know those points !!and I can't recall any complains about them, they have been coming here for 40 years ! not to mention that recruiters at their own countries that makes those points clear for them before coming here.

Well maybe no one complained directly to YOU!!! Do you recall wehre it got to a point where laborers were demonstrating in the UAE about poor living conditions and salaries not being paid?? Those were not the actions of "happy campers". More likely "unhappy modern-day-slaves". That is a form of "complaint".

Your words to me in the Doha Debates thread:

but seriously hon, the country can't do allot with the companies greed for cash, one example is that we outsourced one of our tasks and in the contract we forced the company to a specific salaries to our employees that will be transferred to them, they agreed to it but when the deal was signed we were surprised to know that they deducted half of that salary for so many fees toward their employees !! and shockingly some how the employees agreed to those fees and terms and still working for that company .

It seems to me that they were told one thing and actually it was a different outcome. It was shocking that the employees agreed to being screwed??? What choices did they have Kid?? What were their options??? What did your company do about it?? As long as your company got paid, did they really care that there wasn't full disclosure as to the deductions from the laborers salaries? Answer to all: NONE and NO!!!!

You and everyone else who think that laborers are living better here in the UAE than they would back home and aren't suffering: live their life for one month - during the summer. Even under the "best" of circumstances, you wouldn't survive 1 day, never mind 1 week!!! As for living better - how can being enslaved be better than being free??

Not relevant and stop calling me hon !

Now that was evasive DEAR. It is very relevant. If you noticed I quoted you from this thread. Oh, I get it. Don't have an answer do you DEAR??[/quote]

it is amazing how you talk in general of all of them when even their country ambassadors thinks other wise ! could you be clear why are you calling them slaves ? they chose those salaries before they came in ! they will keep doing so and has been doing it for all those years. of course it is hard but this is life , it's not like we caused it or want it them to live like this. there are different living statues for everyone, I would change it for their benefits if I could but its simply not a just "a wish".

yes it is hard work, it is construction work, and yes it is hot and you certainly don't expect us to ask the son to cool down !they had salaries problems with few companies and the country did something about it and the same goes to their housing conditions ,I really don't know what you are getting at or you attached those circumstances to us !

you always use "it seems" and maybe" those are not good words when you are trying to prove a points. now ,yes as a local we have been living among those you call slaves unlike you who barely know your doorman name, those ppl are part of our society and the real contributor to it.

yes I have been living in their conditions not ones but every year when we worked and slept for months in external sites sleeping in caravans and working in the summer heat ,how did you experience their living hon ? from DF posts or was it from watching them work from your balcony ? get a hold of your self .and find a nother subject you know one or two things about.[/quote]

Talking through your piehole as usual. There are just some things that are obvious - such as: do I have to put my hand in the fire to find out that it will burn me? Yes they made a huge contribution to the UAE - building the villas, towers, roads, etc. that you are so proud of. The government made a correction to the salary situation because of laborers protesting and because of international exposure. How long did you thing it could be kept as a dirty little secret?

I guess your "wisdom" is the only proof you have to show for your efforts. Did you keep your glasses from the Avatar movie so that you can continue to see the reality of things in a distorted manner?

As for being part of your society, how come they don't live as well as you do? How is it that expats who aren't enslaved aren't part of your society? I'm talking about those other than laborers who developed the UAE or do you think that locals did that all by themselves?

You need to understand that the laborers saw the UAE as something like the "American dream". The difference is that in America you are FREE to pursue your dream. Labor in America have unions with guaranteed wages, representatives to go to when something is not right, medical coverage, life insurance, and a host of other benefits. Exactly what "benefits" do they get here? Hope to get their salary? Live in a camp? Have money deducted from their salaries to pay for the privilege of living in camps and cover the cost of uniforms? Have their passports withheld from them? Visit their family every 2 years? That isn't a dream dear, that's a nightmare.

You need to remember that the UAE is what, 37 years old. It's still an infant. You didn't know what technology was until expats brought it here. Actually, you didn't know alot of things until expats brought it here. You need to learn to crawl before you can walk, walk before you can run. You are barely able to stand on your own two legs!! Expats - Westerners - are way ahead of you in every respect as we have a proven history. Your country's history is in the process of changing and entering a new one. We have a saying: call a spade a spade. We call it as we see it. So stop trying to convince us otherwise. Maybe it's because you are embarrassed of how laborers were and still are being treated.

uaekid · Jan 27, 2010

bora bora

woow whats with the hostility ? did I embarrass you this much, you know I bet you didn't even shack one of those slaves hands or ever sat with them .. and all of a sudden you are an expert LOOOOL

the country did an improvement to the salaries not a correction which in both way you should appreciate !

Stop being this much shallow and only looking at our money and villas !! ppl with different income lives in diff style, isn't that why you live a way from the black community "projects" in the state ? get real.

god blessed us with oil thanks to him , it brought us technology & you to work here ,it is not out of your charity and you as a western trying to turn this discussion into a racist issue which I don't appreciate plus you are really being a "hctib" as you can see.... now GET and don't get me started with USA ..

uaekid · Jan 27, 2010

bora bora

Your beloved country committed the worst crimes against labors and I'm not talking politically but in it's economy and trade in Asian and American countries , child laboring that you , your country and businesses knew about and still supported them and quite about it for years they have been paid 5 cents per hour and not until it got exposed by the media and it still had years from your government to pass it's bill against it. Don't you know anything about your government and how capitalism bought your democracy.

Aren’t the Americans abusing the Mexicans and making them work for less than the minimum wages ? you know the ones who do your land scaping and gardening in the summer heat and work in construction sites with less pay than the Americans ? aren't many living worst than the Indians and can't even afford health care ?

How about this:
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=36506

or
http://www.aardvarc.org/dv/immigration.shtml

how about your justices system ? :

http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php? ... 002&lang=e

this is how your immigrants thinks of you :
Wadhwa recently surveyed more than 1,000 immigrants who have returned to China and India. According to the survey, it would be a mistake to think of the exodus as a temporary trend due to the faltering U.S. economy, because respondents said their decisions had more to do with career opportunities, and improved quality of life and purchasing power in their native lands, as well as cultural factors. In fact, China is actively recruiting expatriates, offering incentives such as financial assistance and housing. A spokesman for the Chinese Embassy in Washington, Wang Baodong, explained, "China needs a lot of well-trained personnel."
Many survey respondents also expressed irritations with the immigration process in the United States. "They're frustrated with having an uncertain immigration status," explains Lynn Shotwell, executive director of the American Council on International Personnel. Instead of waiting up to a decade for permanent residency, they are "giving up," she says.

You like robbyg lost your ability to see your real country or chose too !! I seriously believe you are the nightmare of the entire world but you are the USA, who can point a finger at you ? lucky you. :wink:

should I keep going ? as you can see you need to dig a hole and stay there instead of bragging "I'm an American", democracy my "ssa"

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