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The Palestinian Center for Development and Media Freedoms (MADA) condemned on Tuesday the raiding of Al-Aqsa TV cameraman and news producer Ammar Yasir Altilawy’s home on Thursday.

Altilawy’s home was stormed in the evening by an armed person, working for the National security forces for the de facto Ministry of Interior, a statement issued by MADA said.

"My house was raided in Thursday evening by an armed and military uniformed person who is working in the National Security Forces affiliated to the Ministry of Interior in Gaza under the pretext that he wanted to take pictures of military operation carried out by someone before his martyrdom, so he stole my laptop and he left a message that if he did not find the pictures on the laptop, he will kidnap me by force,” Altilawy told MADA.

"After that I went to the police headquarters and I reported the incident and the testimony of a witness, and they told me that they cannot do anything for because the aggressor is working in the National Security, and that I have to come back to their office later.”

Following which Altilawy went with his father to the police office on Saturday to follow up on his complaint, expressing fear that the aggressors may return to kidnap him. According to his testimony given to MADA, the officer he met with was a sibling of the first officer, who, upon Altilawy’s request for assistance told officers to beat him.

“When I almost finished the sentence, the officer said to his soldiers:" hit him", so they beat me severely with sticks and [their] feet, they were about ten soldiers, and when my father (50 years old) tried to keep them away from me, they also beat him. After that they took me to a room, then the officer came to me after they put me on the wall and raised my hands on it, he severely beat and slapped me, and then ordered the soldiers to put me in the jail. They also confiscated my property and my mobile. After an hour, somebody from the police interfered and tried to convince me to apologize to the officer to release me but I refused because I didn't do anything wrong to him, after that they release me with a pledge.”

(BTW - what is it with Israel fanbois - whenever Israel commits a crime, they look around for another criminal and say 'well, at least we're not as bad as those guys' - but more often than not, inventing these other crimes)

This brief review of Israel's record over the past four decades makes it difficult to resist the conclusion that it has become a rogue state with "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". A rogue state habitually violates international law, possesses weapons of mass destruction and practises terrorism - the use of violence against civilians for political purposes. Israel fulfils all of these three criteria; the cap fits and it must wear it.

“Virtuous Israelis” versus “Evil Arabs”

The final moral argument portrays Israel as a country that has sought peace at every turn and showed great restraint even when provoked. The Arabs, by contrast, are said to have acted with great wickedness. This narrative—which is endlessly repeated by Israeli leaders and American apologists such as Alan Dershowitz—is yet another myth.41 In terms of actual behavior, Israel’s conduct is not morally distinguishable from the actions of its opponents.

Israeli scholarship shows that the early Zionists were far from benevolent towards the Palestinian Arabs.42 The Arab inhabitants did resist the Zionists’ encroachments, which is hardly surprising given that the Zionists were trying to create their own state on Arab lands. The Zionists responded vigorously, and neither side owns the moral high ground during this period. This same scholarship also reveals that the creation of Israel in 1947‐48 involved explicit acts of ethnic cleansing, including executions, massacres, and rapes by Jews.43

Furthermore, Israel’s subsequent conduct towards its Arab adversaries and its Palestinian subjects has often been brutal, belying any claim to morally superior conduct. Between 1949 and 1956, for example, Israeli security forces killed between 2,700 and 5000 Arab infiltrators, the overwhelming majority of them unarmed.44 The IDF conducted numerous cross‐border raids against its neighbors in the early 1950s, and though these actions were portrayed as defensive responses, they were actually part of a broader effort to expand Israel’s borders. Israel’s expansionist ambitions also led it to join Britain and France in attacking Egypt in 1956, and Israel withdrew from the lands it had conquered only in the face of intense U.S. pressure. 45

The IDF also murdered hundreds of Egyptian prisoners‐of‐war in both the 1956 and 1967 wars.46 In 1967, it expelled between 100,000 and 260,000 Palestinians from the newly‐conquered West Bank, and drove 80,000 Syrians from the Golan Heights.47 It was also complicit in the massacre of 700 innocent Palestinians at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps following its invasion of Lebanon in 1982, and an Israeli investigatory commission found then‐Defence Minister Sharon “personally responsible” for these atrocities.48

Israeli personnel have tortured numerous Palestinian prisoners, systematically humiliated and inconvenienced Palestinian civilians, and used force indiscriminately against them on numerous occasions. During the First Intifida (1987‐1991), for example, the IDF distributed truncheons to its troops and encouraged them to break the bones of Palestinian protestors. The Swedish “Save the Children” organization estimated that “23,600 to 29,900 children required medical treatment for their beating injuries in the first two years of the intifida,” with nearly one‐third sustaining broken bones. Nearly one‐third of the beaten children were aged ten and under.”49

Israel’s response to the Second Intifida (2000‐2005) has been even more violent, leading Ha’aretz to declare that “the IDF … is turning into a killing machine whose efficiency is awe‐inspiring, yet shocking.”50 The IDF fired one million bullets in the first days of the uprising, which is far from a measured response.51 Since then, Israel has killed 3.4 Palestinians for every Israeli lost, the majority of whom have been innocent bystanders; the ratio of Palestinian to Israeli children killed is even higher (5.7 to 1).52 Israeli forces have also killed several foreign peace activists, including a 23 year‐old American woman crushed by an Israeli bulldozer in March 2003.53

These facts about Israel’s conduct have been amply documented by numerous human rights organizations—including prominent Israeli groups—and are not disputed by fair‐minded observers. And that is why four former officials of Shin Bet (the Israeli domestic security organization) condemned Israel’s conduct during the Second Intifada in November 2003. One of them declared “we are behaving disgracefully,” and another termed Israel’s conduct “patently immoral.”54

Finally, we should not forget that the Zionists used terrorism when they were in a similarly weak position and trying to obtain their own state. Between 1944 and 1947, several Zionist organizations used terrorist bombings to drive the British from Palestine, and took the lives of many innocent civilians along the way.56 Israeli terrorists also murdered U.N. mediator Count Folke Bernadotte in 1948, because they opposed his proposal to internationalize Jerusalem.57 Nor were the perpetrators of these acts isolated extremists: the leaders of the murder plot were eventually granted amnesty by the Israeli government and one of them was elected to the Knesset. Another terrorist leader, who approved the murder but was not tried, was future Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir. Indeed, Shamir openly argued that “neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat.” Rather, terrorism had “a great part to play … in our war against the occupier [Britain].”58

If the Palestinians’ use of terrorism is morally reprehensible today, so was Israel’s reliance upon it in the past, and thus one cannot justify U.S. support for Israel on the grounds that its past conduct was morally superior.59

shafique wrote:You're excusing your tactics by saying that Muslims also use this tactic when they excuse terrorist acts. I've never used this excuse

shafique wrote:^Actually, I agree (and have commented before) that the Iranian thugs are taking a leaf out of the Israeli playbook when they attack unarmed protestors.

shafique wrote:whenever Israel commits a crime, they look around for another criminal and say 'well, at least we're not as bad as those guys'

shafique wrote:The people arrested seem to have been holding peaceful protests and some were kept in custody for 'weeks and months' before being released without charge - says the article. So, I'd agree with FD it is 'worrying'.

Flying Dutchman wrote:The title seems to be misleading. Israel arrested protesters, which were later on released. If it was a peacefull protest, although illegal, it is worrisome. But as long as Gideon Levy can write his articles there is nothing wrong with FoS in Israel I would say. If the obessesive Israel bashers would be only be so concerned with human rights in the Muslim/Arab world, the ME would be a better place. But they are not...

And yes I would call Hamas terrorists. Calling them a legal resistance movement while blowing up children, women in buses and restaurants in the name of Allah, says a lot about their supporters.

event horizon wrote:

shafique wrote:You're excusing your tactics by saying that Muslims also use this tactic when they excuse terrorist acts. I've never used this excuse

Weird. I thought you used this excuse when justifying Muhammad's war crimes because it was the 'norm' in those days to execute prisoners of war. Worse, you also excused Muhammad's marriage and statutory rape of Aisha because old men also married young girls too.

In fact, just doing a quick search, I found you using the same 'tactic' you are complaining of:

shafique wrote:^Actually, I agree (and have commented before) that the Iranian thugs are taking a leaf out of the Israeli playbook when they attack unarmed protestors.

The arrests come at a time of shifting tactics in the protests against Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and annexation of east Jerusalem, territories the Palestinians want for their future state. Israel captured both from Jordan in the 1967 Mideast war.

The violence of the second Palestinian uprising, with mass marches and violent attacks, has given way to carefully calibrated protests and legal action in which Israeli and Palestinian activists now often work together.

Humbleman wrote:How could you ignore the simple fact that, it’s humans’ nature to resist and in some cases tend to use violence when faced with such injustice, oppression, occupation etc.

Humbleman wrote:I feel sorry for you, because a hater like yourself, who hates Islam for no reason

shafique wrote:..
But let me quote from John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt from 2006:

“Virtuous Israelis” versus “Evil Arabs”

The final moral argument portrays Israel as a country that has sought peace at every turn and showed great restraint even when provoked. The Arabs, by contrast, are said to have acted with great wickedness. This narrative—which is endlessly repeated by Israeli leaders and American apologists such as Alan Dershowitz—is yet another myth.41 In terms of actual behavior, Israel’s conduct is not morally distinguishable from the actions of its opponents.

Israeli scholarship shows that the early Zionists were far from benevolent towards the Palestinian Arabs.42 The Arab inhabitants did resist the Zionists’ encroachments, which is hardly surprising given that the Zionists were trying to create their own state on Arab lands. The Zionists responded vigorously, and neither side owns the moral high ground during this period. This same scholarship also reveals that the creation of Israel in 1947‐48 involved explicit acts of ethnic cleansing, including executions, massacres, and rapes by Jews.43
....

Finally, we should not forget that the Zionists used terrorism when they were in a similarly weak position and trying to obtain their own state. Between 1944 and 1947, several Zionist organizations used terrorist bombings to drive the British from Palestine, and took the lives of many innocent civilians along the way.56 Israeli terrorists also murdered U.N. mediator Count Folke Bernadotte in 1948, because they opposed his proposal to internationalize Jerusalem.57 Nor were the perpetrators of these acts isolated extremists: the leaders of the murder plot were eventually granted amnesty by the Israeli government and one of them was elected to the Knesset. Another terrorist leader, who approved the murder but was not tried, was future Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir. Indeed, Shamir openly argued that “neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat.” Rather, terrorism had “a great part to play … in our war against the occupier [Britain].”58

If the Palestinians’ use of terrorism is morally reprehensible today, so was Israel’s reliance upon it in the past, and thus one cannot justify U.S. support for Israel on the grounds that its past conduct was morally superior.

Flying Dutchman wrote:

Humbleman wrote:How could you ignore the simple fact that, it’s humans’ nature to resist and in some cases tend to use violence when faced with such injustice, oppression, occupation etc.

Sure, but blowing up little children isnot (brave) resistance. You seem to argue that it is.

Humbleman wrote:I feel sorry for you, because a hater like yourself, who hates Islam for no reason

I hear that a lot, but why do you think I hate Islam?

I think it was you Humbleman who once wrote that all wars and every bad in the world is the fault of Zionist Jews. Which is very typical for obessesive Israel bashers, but also makes me glad that there is an Israel as long as there are people like you. People who say they come in peace, but are in fact wicked.

Humbleman wrote:If I killed your sister or father or mum, force you out of your own home, occupy your ancestor’s lands and make your life unbearable - what you would do to me then? I bet you would definitely try your best to get back at me at any cost.

Humbleman wrote:the fact that they have been under occupation for too long and no one has give it damn about their suffering.

Humbleman wrote:Palestinians did not commit nor participate in the Holocaust, so why they are being punished.

Flying Dutchman wrote:The writers should specify their sources, but I am guessing that they base their conclusions on Benny Morris.

Flying Dutchman wrote: ...Like Baruch Goldstein. Strange that people like you donot seem to know the names of the hunderds of Arab terrorists, but seem to love the name of Baruch Goldstein.

Flying Dutchman wrote:It seems you, Shafique, also want people to hate. I donot hate Islam, but I think some aspects of it are very worrisome.

I wouldn't intentially blow up myself with little children around me.

The Impact of the Conflict
on Children
124 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,441 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

Click chart to enlarge. Source: Remember These Children.

“The majority of these [Palestinian] children were killed and injured while going about normal daily activities, such as going to school, playing, shopping, or simply being in their homes. Sixty-four percent of children killed during the first six months of 2003 died as a result of Israeli air and ground attacks, or from indiscriminate fire from Israeli soldiers.”

- Catherine Cook

Source: Remember These Children, a coalition of groups calling for an end to the killing of children and a fair resolution of the conflict. (View the complete list of the victims, which was last updated on November 20, 2009.)

It appears that Remember These Children has not yet documented a number of the Palestinian children killed during Israel's Dec 27, 2008 - Jan 18, 2009 assault on Gaza. They report only 269 of the Palestinian children killed during that time (and an additional 9 who later died from wounds inflicted during that time period). B'Tselem has documented that Israel killed 318 Palestinian children in Gaza during this time. We do not doubt the validity of this higher number as they are extremely careful in their documentation.

Israeli Bombs Continue To Kill Lebanese Children

In 2006, the job got more difficult. In a recognized war crime the state of Israel dropped tens of thousands of cluster bombs on Lebanon. Cluster bombs are banned by many countries since they often lead to great civilian deaths and operate as landmines. Cluster bombs dropped over terrain are hard to spot and often mistaken for toys by children.

Since Israel’s withdraw from most of south Lebanon (it still occupies the Sha’aba Farms) and between the 2006 War (which killed over 1,200 Lebanese mostly civilians), numerous Lebanese have been killed by these Israeli (American provided) weapons of war. Young Lebanese children often accidentally pick up cluster bombs and step on landmines.

Not only has Israel refused to handover the location of landmines but also the coordinates for the cluster bomb droppings. If it did, these Lebanese lives and injures could be spared since the government and UN would quarantine an area until the finished clean up. But without such information, UN workers are racing against the clock hoping to clear up the next bomb before another innocent child is injured or killed. These two Lebanese children were recently injured:

The Zionists responded vigorously, and neither side owns the moral high ground during this period. This same scholarship also reveals that the creation of Israel in 1947‐48 involved explicit acts of ethnic cleansing, including executions, massacres, and rapes by Jews.43

Morris, Birth Revisited. It should be noted that many Israeli documents concerning the events of 1948 remain classified; Morris expects “that with respect to both expulsions and atrocities, we can expect additional revelations as the years pass and more Israeli records become available.” Morris, “Revisiting the Palestinian Exodus,” in Rogan and Shlaim, War for Palestine, p. 49. In fact, he maintains that the reported cases of rape he knows about are “just the tip of the iceberg.” See Shavit, “Survival of the Fittest.”

Finally, we should not forget that the Zionists used terrorism when they were in a similarly weak position and trying to obtain their own state. Between 1944 and 1947, several Zionist organizations used terrorist bombings to drive the British from Palestine, and took the lives of many innocent civilians along the way.56

56 See J. Bowyer Bell, Terror Out of Zion: The Fight for Israeli Independence ( New Brunswick, NJ: Transaction Publishers, 1996); Joseph Heller, The Stern Gang: Ideology, Politics and Terror, 1940‐1949 (London: Frank Cass, 1995); Bruce Hoffmann, The Failure of British Military Strategy within Palestine, 1939‐1947 (Israel: Bar‐Ilan University, 1983); Morris, Righteous Victims, pp. 173‐180; Segev, One Palestine, pp. 468‐486. According to Haim Levenberg, 210 of the 429 casualties from Jewish terrorism in Palestine during 1946 were civilians. The other 219 were police and soldiers. Levenberg, Military Preparations, p. 72. Furthermore, it was Jewish terrorists from the infamous Irgun who in late 1937 introduced the practice of placing bombs in buses and large crowds. Benny Morris speculates that, “The Arabs may well have learned the value of terrorist bombings from the Jews.” Righteous Victims, pp. 147, 201. Also see Lenni Brenner, The Iron Wall: Zionist Revisionism from Jabotinsky to Shamir (London: Zed Books, 1984), p. 100; Yehoshua Porath, The Palestinian Arab National Movement: from Riots to Rebellion, Vol. II, 1929‐1939 (London: Frank Cass, 1977), p. 238. Finally, Morris notes that during the 1948 war the main Jewish terrorist groups “knowingly planted bombs in bus stops with the aim of killing non‐combatants, including women and children.” Birth Revisited, p. 80.

Nor were the perpetrators of these acts isolated extremists: the leaders of the murder plot were eventually granted amnesty by the Israeli government and one of them was elected to the Knesset. Another terrorist leader, who approved the murder but was not tried, was future Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir. Indeed, Shamir openly argued that “neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat.” Rather, terrorism had “a great part to play … in our war against the occupier [Britain].”58

If the Palestinians’ use of terrorism is morally reprehensible today, so was Israel’s reliance upon it in the past, and thus one cannot justify U.S. support for Israel on the grounds that its past conduct was morally superior.

Quoted in Chomsky, Fateful Triangle, pp. 485‐486. Israeli Prime Minister Levi Eshkol used to call Menachem Begin “the terrorist.” Barzilai, “Brief History.” On Shamir, see Avishai Margalit, “The Violent Life of Yitzhak Shamir,” New York Review of Books, May 14, 1992, pp. 18‐24.

shafique wrote:Anyway - do you disagree with the other points the authors make above - that the Arabs have been unfairly portrayed by Israeli spin?

Finally, we should not forget that the Zionists used terrorism when they were in a similarly weak position and trying to obtain their own state. Between 1944 and 1947, several Zionist organizations used terrorist bombings to drive the British from Palestine, and took the lives of many innocent civilians along the way.

shafique wrote:They are making the point that the Palestinians are no different from the Israelis, and contrasting that with the spin that Israelis are virtuous (the section title was included in the quote I gave “Virtuous Israelis” versus “Evil Arabs”)

shafique wrote:

event horizon wrote:

shafique wrote:You're excusing your tactics by saying that Muslims also use this tactic when they excuse terrorist acts. I've never used this excuse

Weird. I thought you used this excuse when justifying Muhammad's war crimes because it was the 'norm' in those days to execute prisoners of war. Worse, you also excused Muhammad's marriage and statutory rape of Aisha because old men also married young girls too.

In fact, just doing a quick search, I found you using the same 'tactic' you are complaining of:

shafique wrote:^Actually, I agree (and have commented before) that the Iranian thugs are taking a leaf out of the Israeli playbook when they attack unarmed protestors.

Another epic failure in comprehension.

Your tactic is to excuse Israeli actions (not condemn them) by trying to deflect attention to other people's crimes.

In my quote above - I was agreeing that Israel is as criminal as Iran - agreeing that both are wrong. I've explicitly said that I condemn Hamas' terrorist actions as well as Israel's - actions which are likely to kill civilians are condemned whoever carries them out.


That said, if you are finally agreeing with me that Israel's criminal acts are as bad as Hamas' then we have indeed made progress.

Cheers,
Shafique

Israel is special though in the ME, being one of the few thriving democracies