Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible With Western Law

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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 06, 2010
Thebigmo wrote:Quran gives Complete and Absolute freedom Unparalleled in human history!

16:82 But if they turn away from you, your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message .

6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides Him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you a guardian over them.

4:79-80 Say:'Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness. Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper."

11:28 He (Noah) said "O my people! think over it! If I act upon a clear direction from my Lord who has bestowed on me from Himself the Merciful talent of seeing the right way, a way which you cannot see for yourself, does it follow that we can force you to take the right path when you definitely decline to take it?�

17:53-54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner. Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe .... Hence, We have not sent you with power to determine their Faith.

21:107-109 (O Prophet?) 'We have not sent you except to be a mercy to all mankind:" Declare, "Verily, what is revealed to me is this, your God is the only One God, so is it not up to you to bow down to Him?' But if they turn away then say, "I have delivered the Truth in a manner clear to one and all, and I know not whether the promised hour is near or far."

22:67 To every people have We appointed ceremonial rites which they observe; therefore, let them not wrangle over this matter with you, but bid them to turn to your Lord. You indeed are rightly guided. But if they still dispute you in this matter, `God best knows what you do."

24.54. Say: "Obey God, and obey the Messenger. but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message).

88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe.

48:28 He it is Who has sent forth His Messenger with the Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to the end that tie make it prevail over every religion, and none can bear witness to the Truth as God does.

36:16 17 (Three Messengers to their people) Said, "Our Sustainer knows that we have indeed been sent unto you, but we are not bound to more than clearly deliver the Message entrusted to us.'

39:41 Assuredly, We have sent down the Book to you in right form for the good of man. Whoso guided himself by it does so to his own advantage, and whoso turns away from it does so at his own loss. You certainly are not their keeper.

42:6 48 And whoso takes for patrons others besides God, over them does God keep a watch. Mark, you are not a keeper over them. But if they turn aside from you (do not get disheartened), for We have not sent you to be a keeper over them; your task is but to preach ....

64:12 Obey God then and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away (no blame shall attach to our Messenger), for the duty of Our Messenger is just to deliver the message.

67:25 26 And they ask, "When shall the promise be fulfilled if you speak the Truth?" Say, "The knowledge of it is verily with God alone, and verily I am but plain warner."

10.99-100. If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe! No soul can believe, except by the will of God, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand

28.55-56 And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: "To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you: we seek not the ignorant," It is true thou wilt not be able to guide whom thou lovest; but God guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance.

109.1-6 Say : O ye that reject Faith,! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, To you be your Way, and to me mine.

74.11-17 Leave Me with whom I created alone!, To whom I granted resources in abundance, And sons to be by his side, To whom I made (life) smooth and comfortable, Yet is he greedy-that I should add (yet more);- By no means! For to Our Signs he has been refractory!, Soon will I visit him with a mount of calamities!

"So have We appointed for every Prophet an enemy - devils of men and Jinns; who inspire each other with seductive, deceptive speech which leads astray; but had thy Lord willed they would not have done so. So leave them with what they do devise. And let the hearts of those who believe not in the Hereafter listen to it; and let them be well pleased with it; and let them gain what they can gain!" 6:113-114

"And when you see those who meddle with Our revelations, withdraw from them until they meddle with another topic. And if the devil causes you to forget, sit not, after the remembrance, with the congregation of wrongdoers. 6:68

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing


Absolute and complete freedom unparalleled in human history. :mrgreen:


What country do you reside in? Point being, what circumstancial evidence can I analyze from your nation that defines your absolute and complete freedom?

A book can say everything it wants. Its an insight, no more. The reality of your freedom is visible on the ground (actual circumstances of freedom or restriction) and is debateable.

Freedom is defined as individual liberty and property rights. Without that...there's no basis for true freedom.

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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 06, 2010
RobbyG wrote:What country do you reside in? Point being, what circumstancial evidence can I analyze from your nation that defines your absolute and complete freedom?

A book can say everything it wants. Its an insight, no more. The reality of your freedom is visible on the ground (actual circumstances of freedom or restriction) and is debateable.

Freedom is defined as individual liberty and property rights. Without that...there's no basis for true freedom.


See thats where the crux of the situation lies ? Just as any country does not practise true democracy there is no nation which is goverend by true and proper Islamic law. Saudi, Iran etc etc I wouldn't call them anywhere close to that. Infact they do more harm to Islam than good.

Islam does not intrude on your personal liberty or interfere with your bussiness, assets or property or put any limits on how much one can have.
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 06, 2010
desertdudeshj wrote:
RobbyG wrote:What country do you reside in? Point being, what circumstancial evidence can I analyze from your nation that defines your absolute and complete freedom?

A book can say everything it wants. Its an insight, no more. The reality of your freedom is visible on the ground (actual circumstances of freedom or restriction) and is debateable.

Freedom is defined as individual liberty and property rights. Without that...there's no basis for true freedom.


See thats where the crux of the situation lies ? Just as any country does not practise true democracy there is no nation which is goverend by true and proper Islamic law. Saudi, Iran etc etc I wouldn't call them anywhere close to that. Infact they do more harm to Islam than good.

Islam does not intrude on your personal liberty or interfere with your bussiness, assets or property or put any limits on how much one can have.


Thats my point. True democracy doesn't exist. True Islam neither. Although we can try forever to achieve it...

Islam dictates a lifestyle (segregation, men and women not equal etc., public limitations, docile behaviour) that is nothing close to our personal freedom we have (or had, after terrorism kicked in) in the West (from my viewpoint, logically). What you don't know, you won't miss, as they say.

This topic however, is about secularity. Its about identifying the disastrous risks that come with mixing Politics and Religion. Let history be your guide and you'll have to agree with the fact that it results in conflicts.

I'm just debating about societies that prospered and on what basis. The eventual goal is to provide prosperity for everybody right? Not just a small elite group of people.

See how far history taught us with implosions of failed societies: Communism, Fascism, Marxism, Tribalism (in a crowding world) etc.

You gotta adapt to your environment. If we lack that, societies end up diminished or even erased by evolution. Best economic model for prosperity still is Capitalism, although corruption and government regulation remains an issue.

What do you think?
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 06, 2010
RobbyG wrote:Islam dictates a lifestyle (segregation, men and women not equal etc., public limitations, docile behaviour)


Again most of your information is incorrect.
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 06, 2010
desertdudeshj wrote:
RobbyG wrote:Islam dictates a lifestyle (segregation, men and women not equal etc., public limitations, docile behaviour)


Again most of your information is incorrect.


In theory perhaps, not in reality.
I'm sure people who abide by Islamic rules are happy. But again, what you don't have, you won't miss.

I do know that Western standards of living are very free. I believe the French feel the most free in their country as I read somewhere today. They do think that tax pressure is too high, which is mostly contributed to big government.

Politicians and religions aren't producing anything. They take away time and money (valuable resources) from people and we need them both for economic development. At best, you wanna get rid of them altogether in my opinion. Or keep them as tiny as practically (or spiritually) beneficial.
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 07, 2010
RobbyG wrote:In theory perhaps, not in reality.
I'm sure people who abide by Islamic rules are happy. But again, what you don't have, you won't miss.


Rob my man this is where your problem lies you latch on to something and then keeping repeating it until you start to sound like a deeply scratched record that one want so smash against the wall.

Just by repeating something again and again doesn't make it true. Was your educated mind taking a coffee break when I said there are no Islamic states or really any proper "Islamic" rules applied anywhere ?. So how can you say "I'm sure people who abide by Islamic rules are happy" how do you know. No one knows at the moment because there just isn't one or even close to it.

What is that you repeated state, you have that I don't so won't miss ? Chase the dragon without facing jail time ?

For someone who thinks tand claims to be a well informed some of your statements and assumptions are very poor.

Rob sorry mate really no point is having any discussions when you have such a closed and baised mind. Something you accuse a lot of people here and yet a victim of it yourself.

Until date any fact or statement you've ever made regarding Islam is incorrect and along same regurgitated crap of dirt dishers like fox news dish out. So go please learn about islam first from the source and not whats printed in your daily tabliod and then come here and attempt to have a debate.
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 07, 2010
desertdudeshj wrote:
RobbyG wrote:In theory perhaps, not in reality.
I'm sure people who abide by Islamic rules are happy. But again, what you don't have, you won't miss.


Rob my man this is where your problem lies you latch on to something and then keeping repeating it until you start to sound like a deeply scratched record that one want so smash against the wall.

Just by repeating something again and again doesn't make it true. Was your educated mind taking a coffee break when I said there are no Islamic states or really any proper "Islamic" rules applied anywhere ?. So how can you say "I'm sure people who abide by Islamic rules are happy" how do you know. No one knows at the moment because there just isn't one or even close to it.

What is that you repeated state, you have that I don't so won't miss ? Chase the dragon without facing jail time ?

For someone who thinks tand claims to be a well informed some of your statements and assumptions are very poor.

Rob sorry mate really no point is having any discussions when you have such a closed and baised mind. Something you accuse a lot of people here and yet a victim of it yourself.

Until date any fact or statement you've ever made regarding Islam is incorrect and along same regurgitated crap of dirt dishers like fox news dish out. So go please learn about islam first from the source and not whats printed in your daily tabliod and then come here and attempt to have a debate.


I am challenging you to come with arguments and explanations here.

Thats what a debate is for. Why talk me to the trashcan while I make a statement. Refute me with some insights then!

I'm always taught to stand for what you think, until someone comes up with better arguments. Reason with me fella, for gods sake :lol:
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 07, 2010
:roll: and when some calls you on your crap you dish out this standard reply ^^^^ Like I said elsewhere, your getting very robotic and predictable.

Like I said no point in debating with you. How can I make you understand advanced grammar when you don't even know your ABC's. Learn you ABC's first then we'll talk. K ?
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 07, 2010
desertdudeshj wrote::roll: and when some calls you on your crap you dish out this standard reply ^^^^ Like I said elsewhere, your getting very robotic and predictable.

Like I said no point in debating with you. How can I make you understand advanced grammar when you don't even know your ABC's. Learn you ABC's first then we'll talk. K ?


Get real mate. I didn't hear Shafique complain. He and I actually found alot of confirmation in our viewpoints about secularism.

So who's fooling who here? Put open your eight windows and cool off.

Get back to me when you have something interesting to discuss. You haven't provided me with a logic explanation of your own. So how can I argue your standpoint on Islam and Western Law?

Dude, I've read multiple books from intellectuals like Thomas Sowell, Friedrich Hayek, John Keynes, Niall Ferguson and others about society and monetary history. I am eager to read about Islamic developments in society but I haven't found a recommendable one yet.

Any writers with international allure that you could recommend about Islam and progression?
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 07, 2010
^^^Go ahead Rob! I'm a fan! 8)
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 07, 2010
RobbyG wrote: I am eager to read about Islamic developments in society but I haven't found a recommendable one yet.

Any writers with international allure that you could recommend about Islam and progression?


If I may interject and give a couple of recommendations ;)?

The first is a speech:
The Contribution of Islam to the Solution of World Problems
Sir Muhammad Zafrullah Khan

On the occasion of the 16th Congress of International Association for Religious Freedom held in Chicago, Illinois (USA), on the 10th August 1958, Sir Muhammad Zafrullah Khan, Vice President of the International Court of Justice at the Hague, was invited to speak on the Islamic solutions to World Problems.

http://www.alislam.org/library/ContributionofIslam.html

It is a wideranging speech, and covers social, economic and other areas. (At the same site you'll also find a book - 'Islam-Its meaning for modern man' - which goes into more detail)

The second recommendation is a book:

Islam's response to contemporary issues
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Is ... Issues.pdf
Ch 2 deals with 'Social Peace' and discusses this thread's issue. You may also want to read the chapter 3 on Economic peace - but I'd strongly recommend Ch4, it makes fascinating reading - bearing in mind it was originally delivered in 1990 (it covers the 'evils' of interest-based economic system).

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 07, 2010
Thanks Shafique,

I'll have a look at your recommendation(s).
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 07, 2010
melika969 wrote:^^^Go ahead Rob! I'm a fan! 8)


Sweet of you to say that.

Thanks Mel, for appreciating my '2 (euro)cents'. :mrgreen:
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 07, 2010
Islam is compatible with western Law Politics/Economics/Social interaction as long as western administration promotes and protects the rights and well being of all creation in justice, without the hidden-hostile agenda and policies. It has infact more to offer than any systems ever introduced by man as it also advocates and mandates moral development (to avoid social decay) and provides a unique belief system to one and only creator of all the worlds ,as well as,- well being of man for eternal bliss in the hereafter.

Unfortunatly since the fall of the Ottoman empire and thereby rising of the Western world, “the real religion islam” and its qualities have been exiled or lets say put into deep freezer under the regimes of the muslim countries ever since, due to busted, bigot politicians and leaders often in cooperation or lets say under hegemony of the western influence. This is now the very reason why some Muslims also have mixed-up feelings and put the blame on this beautiful religion(a way of life) as a result.

One can always find many reasons as to why Muslim countries are failing on false promises which often discussed on both local/international political as well as philosophy/religion forums if you have any interest to find and follow.

Under current circumstances If the hegemony is shifted and justice brought about than I am sure islam will strive to its full strength again as muslim youth is awakening thanks to the wild policies of the western world. (But as you know the vigorous propaganda against islam hasn't come to an end so far and continues with vengeance)

Here is some reading deliberations on the contribution of islam to world civilisation before the flag had been taken over by the western world.
A beautiful website for Muslims contribution to present day Science, Technology, Arts and Civilisation.
http://www.muslimheritage.com/

Discover the Muslim Heritage in our World..
http://www.1001inventions.com/index.cfm ... tionID=286

Islam’s Contribution to World Civilization
January 16-17, 2010 at Calicut, Kerala
http://www.iosworld.org/download/Concept-note.pdf

A “Global” Civilisation: the Birth of Islam
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cac ... xTeF7kx4ZA


Muslim Contributions to World Civilization (Basheer Ahmed, Syed A. Ahsani, Dilnawaz A. Siddiqui)
http://www.amazon.com/Contributions-Civ ... 1565644107
Many other books also available on the same and similar subjects.

Hope this will be enough to start with..
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 07, 2010
RobbyG wrote:
desertdudeshj wrote::roll: and when some calls you on your crap you dish out this standard reply ^^^^ Like I said elsewhere, your getting very robotic and predictable.

Like I said no point in debating with you. How can I make you understand advanced grammar when you don't even know your ABC's. Learn you ABC's first then we'll talk. K ?


Get real mate. I didn't hear Shafique complain. He and I actually found alot of confirmation in our viewpoints about secularism.

So who's fooling who here? Put open your eight windows and cool off.

Get back to me when you have something interesting to discuss. You haven't provided me with a logic explanation of your own. So how can I argue your standpoint on Islam and Western Law?

Dude, I've read multiple books from intellectuals like Thomas Sowell, Friedrich Hayek, John Keynes, Niall Ferguson and others about society and monetary history. I am eager to read about Islamic developments in society but I haven't found a recommendable one yet.

Any writers with international allure that you could recommend about Islam and progression?


Now that your done with flashing your credentials and taking a bow for the encore. You say you have read multiple books ? But you havent the THE book which is in the center of this debate.

Once you have, al lot of things will fall into place not that you have to believe it but a lot of your questions will be answered and you will realise most of the quips you make and disinformation you post is wrong.

Western Law and Sharia don't have to be compatible or any other way of governace. Thats the problem with the west. While the trolls worldwide keeps stating that islam promotes forced conversions and what not. The west keeps shoving democracy down the worlds throat.

It works for you guys well and good. keep it to yourselves. Democracy has failed many times overs and people wishing they never should have adopted it eg:- Russian and many breakaway nations. I know many Iraqis who now say no matter how saddam was at least there was peace for the majority of th epopulation. People had jobs, houses and a sense of security that they will not be blown to bits by a bomber if the go to the market today.

I think I can safely assume majority of the GCC nationals would vote against having a democracy and perfer the sheikdom rule. I for one know I do.

Its is not Islam that is not compatible with western law. Its western law that is not compatible with Islam. Just like its not compatible with any oter system in this world.

The "west" need to realise that there are and always will be more than one system. And should stop trying to liberate the rest of the world so the world will be more like them. Instead they should try to more compatible and learn to live in the global village of today
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 07, 2010
:pukeleft: :pukeleft: :pukeleft: :pukeleft: :pukeleft: :pukeleft:
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 07, 2010
Ofcourse the Rob G pu$$y...oops I meant posse wont like it ;)
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 07, 2010
hehe, you think u can be annoying, but u are jut a little tiny bugger!
:bigsmurf:

oh your statement showed everyone how you are a nice true example of a man of your religion!
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 07, 2010
On a serious I feel you melika, I understand your flustrationand disillusion and non belief being there in that little oppresed nation of yours which pretends to be an islamic state.

If one has to look for the higest number of people who reject Islam it is Iran and I can understand that completely for someone hasn't see anything other than death, destruction and war because of what they are told is Islam.

So really I don't take anything you say very seriously in this matter as your opinion my be true according to you, but is totally skewered and biased
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 08, 2010
It’s right that the fact that I live in Iran, tempts me to study and THINK about the religion which has been imposed to me, but it has to do nothing with my beliefs today.

It’s not true. Well lots of university graduates and youth do not believe in Islam these days, but again lots of them do believe it. And people from other castes of the society do believe in Islam too. So your assumption about Islamophobia in Iran is not true.

For me, I was born and raised up in open minded family. My parents have their beliefs but they never forced us to follow them. I used to be a muslim, I could recite some chapters of Quran, I studied Arabic more than what they taught us in school, I was always the winner of competitions they held for Quran comprehension. But I was brave enough to doubt and to think!

When you have a faith in something as big as religion (in a religious mind) it’s not easy to challenge it! But I have done it, I had my difficult times and now I know what do I believe in, and I’m proud of myself cause I have the mind structure which I built it for myself.

There is nothing for me to discuss about religion, I had my debates with so many people, I know their answers and I know their needs. So Im not trying to convince anyone about my opinion, but sometimes it is difficult for me to resist!
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 08, 2010
When you have a faith in something as big as religion (in a religious mind) it’s not easy to challenge it!


Religion(God) is not there to be challenged. It is the initiator of whatever you want to be challenged..
All the material you want to challange is already created with the start of the big bang. You can not imagine, dream, plan, design or challange anything that is not created, in otherwords if doesn't exist. This means we are here to discover what already we are given..Some of the things we know now also existed thousands of years ago but we weren't as advanced to discover the knowledge and what we don't know now will be discovered in following centuries as we will further advance in future..

So the most important question comes to you is..
In future,If a major breakthrough happens in science and existance of God confirmed,will you then be sorry in your grave that you rejected faith in God and submission to his religion when actually God had already warned and told you that he existed via quran? Will you then blame God, or find an excuse to blame those scientists who were late or lets say weren't capable or clever enough to discover Gods existance at the time you were living on the earth?

Remember, if God showed us all,that he existed and is the creator of all the worlds then there would be no need for faith, religion or science! as we would all be down to our knees..The is why the life here is a testing ground and requires faith where science is slow and fails you to obtain all the knowledge at once...(While true believers of course know that there will be no science to show us God..) as the testing of humankind will continue until dooms day and that in this world we are limited to know God through his magnificence in creation and through his attributes mentioned in quran.
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 08, 2010
Berrin wrote:
When you have a faith in something as big as religion (in a religious mind) it’s not easy to challenge it!


Religion(God) is not there to be challenged. It is the initiator of whatever you want to be challenged..
All the material you want to challange is already created with the start of the big bang. You can not imagine, dream, plan, design or challange anything that is not created, in otherwords if doesn't exist. This means we are here to discover what already we are given..Some of the things we know now also existed thousands of years ago but we weren't as advanced to discover the knowledge and what we don't know now will be discovered in following centuries as we will further advance in future..

So the most important question comes to you is..
In future,If a major breakthrough happens in science and existance of God confirmed,will you then be sorry in your grave that you rejected faith in God and submission to his religion when actually God had already warned and told you that he existed via quran? Will you then blame God, or find an excuse to blame those scientists who were late or lets say weren't capable or clever enough to discover Gods existance at the time you were living on the earth?

Remember, if God showed us all,that he existed and is the creator of all the worlds then there would be no need for faith, religion or science! as we would all be down to our knees..The is why the life here is a testing ground and requires faith where science is slow and fails you to obtain all the knowledge at once...(While true believers of course know that there will be no science to show us God..) as the testing of humankind will continue until dooms day and that in this world we are limited to know God through his magnificence in creation and through his attributes mentioned in quran.


The question is not if religion has its function for certain people. For fearing people it surely has. I'm not fearful though. I don't need support.

I'm wondering if the fearful are capable of setting politics and religion on a secular footing. Without it, you keep stumbling on the status quo of whats best for your country in the name of Islam (or whatever religion there is).

I have read Mr. Khan presentation provided by Shafique about the Koran. I quoted and rebuttled in draft on it yesterday, but there is so much not being implemented in society today, I think my rebuttle takes 5 to 10 pages to fill. So I dropped it aside in frustration. How can some of you be so ignorant about your own leadership. :| I really wonder...

I really wonder if some of you religious guys see your own islamic society as prosperous. Without Western influence or technology most of you would be running in the desert still as nomads. That technology surge comes from within the people, from society, as it brings the best from them without religion intertwined in politics.

I quote Dominique Moisi about his book: The Geopolitics of Emotion
In 1993 Samuel Huntington's The Clash of Civilizations offered a vision of a world divided by cultural differences, national interests, and political ideologies. In The Geopolitics of Emotion , Dominique Moisi brilliantly demonstrates that we are now in the midst of a 'clash of emotions'. Moisi contends that both Europe and the United States are dominated by a fear of the 'other' and of the loss of their national identity and purpose.

For Muslims and Arabs, the combination of historical grievances, exclusion from the economic boon of globalization, and civil and religious warfare extending from their homelands to the Muslim diaspora has created a culture of humiliation that is quickly devolving into a culture of hatred. As the West and the Muslim world lock horns, Asia, able to concentrate on building a better future, has become 'the culture of hope'. By understanding the driving emotions behind our cultural differences, The Geopolitics of Emotion offers a better understanding of the world we live in and perhaps a more peaceful solution to the ignorance and differences that plague us.


Iran (Persians) gets more praise than the Arabs in my opinion. Although it has a less-than-desirable leadership now, Iran is a nation with people that have a great history and rich development which can in part be seen in their efforts of debate about secularity among intellectuals. http://www.scribd.com/doc/17374741/Secu ... den-Agenda
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 08, 2010
melika969 wrote:It’s right that the fact that I live in Iran, tempts me to study and THINK about the religion which has been imposed to me, but it has to do nothing with my beliefs today.

It’s not true. Well lots of university graduates and youth do not believe in Islam these days, but again lots of them do believe it. And people from other castes of the society do believe in Islam too. So your assumption about Islamophobia in Iran is not true.

For me, I was born and raised up in open minded family. My parents have their beliefs but they never forced us to follow them. I used to be a muslim, I could recite some chapters of Quran, I studied Arabic more than what they taught us in school, I was always the winner of competitions they held for Quran comprehension. But I was brave enough to doubt and to think!

When you have a faith in something as big as religion (in a religious mind) it’s not easy to challenge it! But I have done it, I had my difficult times and now I know what do I believe in, and I’m proud of myself cause I have the mind structure which I built it for myself.

There is nothing for me to discuss about religion, I had my debates with so many people, I know their answers and I know their needs. So Im not trying to convince anyone about my opinion, but sometimes it is difficult for me to resist!


Well said. Everybody should embrace the message;

"Think for yourself and be highly critical of what is being said for you."
RobbyG
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 08, 2010
I've always questioned my beliefs and not a blind follower. My parents were hardly what you can term religious at all. Like you G I am a very very skeptical person and will not believe or acknowdlege anything thing until it makes complete logical sense.

Brought with western media, cluture, co ed school, girls, rock bands, parties etc etc you name it. My family still thinks I'm way too westernised for my own good

It was sometime during to my mid 20's that I decided what you can say have a second look ay my own religon. It was not that I ever was an agnostic or atheist at anytime, but religon was yeah something out there.

Now apprently a bit smarter than my teenage self I started looking at our scripture, I must add on my own, not going to any madrassa's, mullahs and shieks etc etc so what ever I read or learned was my own and not ainted by anyones perspective. And I must have to say what really convinced me the most, ironically which you make a big noise about all the time. Is the sheer scientific fact and knowledge in there and not just in the Koran but a lot in the hadith aswell. Its 9 thick volumes, so yes its a lot of reading.

This really fortified that fact that an illiterate camel driver living in the deserts of arabia 1400 years ago could never have know. And for the sake of argument let say he had some future seeing ablities or something. What good would that to him or the people by telling them in that time or age. Yes there are a some things which we cannot comprehend or might not make sense to some people today but there were many many more just a 100 years back. But today they perfect sense and science backs them up.

Most of those scientific facts have just been coroborated by sciene in the last century. The it its not unknow for men of science to accept islam.

I know that you have made up your mind and nothing I say or do will change it. Nothing short of god tapping you on your shoulder and telling you directly yourself, even then I doubt you will.

I have also looked at, i would not say studied, very closely to at other religons aswell. As I always also question myself also what if i was not a born muslim would I then just be who ever my folks told me who I was ? There were also times I contemplated the notion what if there was no god at all and this is just a huge coincidence on a rock in this huge universe.

All of this has fortified my belief that Quran was indeed not written by any man and indeed is the word of a higher power and in it he say he choose Muhammed to be his voice on this earth.

It also is the completetion on gods message to his people. It carries forwards Juadism and chirstianity and completes them. The final episode of a series of books if you like.

So I do object when people make remarks that you just stick to Islam because thats what daddy told you is true.
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 08, 2010
So Robby you prove DD right in that your intentions on this thread is not to have an intelligent debate but to insult and mock. It's so sad to see that when something sensible put forward to think about, people like you can't bear it as it only means to be cornered, leaving them no space to fulfill over in what little sense they may possess..The reason why you paniced over my post is that what I had to say as a last thing was said as first! isn't it? Unfortunately such kind of reaction we get from disbelievers like you is always the same, and that's what happens when all the roads lead to one and only creator, and is the only reason why disbelievers wear this huge mask to camouflage the agony, pain and unrest they have within their souls that they are unaware and know not.

Remember no soul/spirit is at rest or has real freedom until it submits.

The good news to you is that I am not the holder of the judgement day. The best reward and answer to you and your questions will be given by your own creator before us believers..So feel free to inflate your ago here while you have some time left over..
Berrin
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 08, 2010
Berrin wrote:So Robby you prove DD right in that your intentions on this thread is not to have an intelligent debate but to insult and mock. It's so sad to see that when something sensible put forward to think about, people like you can't bear it as it only means to be cornered, leaving them no space to fulfill over in what little sense they may possess..The reason why you paniced over my post is that what I had to say as a last thing was said as first! isn't it? Unfortunately such kind of reaction we get from disbelievers like you is always the same, and that's what happens when all the roads lead to one and only creator, and is the only reason why disbelievers wear this huge mask to camouflage the agony, pain and unrest they have within their souls that they are unaware and know not.

Remember no soul/spirit is at rest or has real freedom until it submits.

The good news to you is that I am not the holder of the judgement day. The best reward and answer to you and your questions will be given by your own creator before us believers..So feel free to inflate your ago here while you have some time left over..


No don't mix my personal feelings with my reason.

In the last post of mine, I just showed you my frustration of your inability to see the facts of Quran on your own society as implemented by your leadership.

I bet this view lives among many others also. Emotion is a hard apple. I know.
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 08, 2010
So if muslims choose to bugger off their life and couldn't give a toss to what believers say, would you still put the blame on God and its religion ?
How pathetic and busted your self and state of mind that is...Your disbelief and contemprary notion unites at its best display for dismay and horror...dear oh dear. I think we can all do without people like you..Don't need the kind of service you would provide at all.
By the way if all the leaders of islam are or were like what you say then what do you do in Dubai? And what do they do in Iran and what was the fault of previous muslim leadears and scientists when they prevailed so much in the past history of Islam..

For goodness sake, Just stop being the hypocrite you are before attaining knowledge on islam, quran and its history.
Berrin
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 08, 2010
Berrin wrote:So if muslims choose to bugger off their life and couldn't give a toss to what believers say, would you still put the blame on God and its religion ?
How pathetic and busted your self and state of mind that is...Your disbelief and contemprary notion unites at its best display for dismay and horror...dear oh dear. I think we can all do without people like you..Don't need the kind of service you would provide at all.
By the way if all the leaders of islam are or were like what you say then what do you do in Dubai? And what do they do in Iran and what was the fault of previous muslim leadears and scientists when they prevailed so much in the past history of Islam..

For goodness sake, Just stop being the hypocrite you are before attaining knowledge on islam, quran and its history.


It has nothing to do with my ego. Its merely a fact when I point out that the Western oil technology brought a giant leap in prosperity to your leadership elites. Western capital brought Dubai to its current standing. Its not that you have to be an a-hole for not indentifying that fact, now do you?

If religion was at play in our politics, this knowledge sharing would arguably never happened.

Who's ego is coming up now? I am actually reasonably modest in my egocentric thinking. I have an army of people that can vouch for that.

I'll take a day break if you don't mind.
RobbyG
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 08, 2010
Just stop self-pittying.
You should sit and pray that the arabs were given the oil by God, for you to rush and invent some sort of technology to make your living out of it...
Just pray to God that you will not get deprived from such resource. Otherwise I know what you will do with that technology of yours, you're so proud of. I wish you just knew how funny you are through my eyes.
Just go back and read the article I put on the religion forums where it explaines if equality means justice..
Then come and tell me what you understand from it, before I start lecturing you..
And than perhaps you will tell me who the actual owner of "so to speak" capital you mention belongs to..

You can take all the day break you like to think when actually I know that talking to you will be like talking to a brick wall, -coming back to square one after every attempt I make.. So enjoy it just as the way you want it...
Berrin
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Re: Your Opinion - Islam Is Incompatible with Western Law Jan 08, 2010
Berrin wrote:Just stop self-pittying.
You should sit and pray that the arabs were given the oil by God, for you to rush and invent some sort of technology to make your living out of it...
Just pray to God that you will not get deprived from such resource. Otherwise I know what you will do with that technology of yours, you're so proud of. I wish you just knew how funny you are through my eyes.
Just go back and read the article I put on the religion forums where it explaines if equality means justice..
Then come and tell me what you understand from it, before I start lecturing you..
And than perhaps you will tell me who the actual owner of "so to speak" capital you mention belongs to..

You can take all the day break you like to think when actually I know that talking to you will be like taking to a brick wall, -coming back to square one after every attempt I make.. So enjoy it just as the way you want it...


Well with that attitude we won't come anywhere.

At least I'm open to reading all the recommendations of you and Shafique etc. and I'm busy doing it right now.
Its just that an objective comparison between theory (Quran) and reality (life in islamic societies like e.g. Dubai) doesn't really add up.

Maybe, if the tone changes more seriously again, I will continue to draft a reflection of Quran and its society on paper. If you don't want to discuss those points, then I wont bother putting in the efforts.

Its up to you to decide if you want to continue our initial discussion. Whats it gonna be?
RobbyG
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