From Nigeria With Love

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From Nigeria with love Dec 27, 2009
Koran 9:111 - God has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of God; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon God in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who fulfils his covenant truer than God? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph.

I guess it remains to be seen if this guy was a lone wolf, self radicalized Muslim or if he was loosely affiliated with Islamist al-Qaeda (as he says) - which seeks, as per verse 9:29 in the Koran, to wage perpetual warfare against all unbelievers in order to eventually establish a world-wide Islamic theocracy.

This is also the view held by mainstream Islam, in which the Kalifa is to wage perpetual jihad warfare against all unbelievers until they either a) convert to Islam, b) submit to Muslim occupation and feel subdued as second class citizens in a religious theocracy or c) are put to the sword.

The terror suspect who tried to blow up a Detroit-bound plane is the son of a Nigerian banker who alerted U.S. authorities to his "extreme religious views" months ago, it was reported Saturday.

The father, Alhaji Umaru Mutallab, a former minister and chairman of First Bank in Nigeria, is shocked that his son was even was allowed to fly to the U.S., family members told the Nigerian newspaper This Day.

The dad was meeting with security officials to discuss his son, identified as Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab, 23.
The younger Mutallab was not on any no-fly list when he flew from Nigeria to Detroit through Amsterdam, Rep. Pete King (R-L.I.) told the Daily News.

When he tried to ignite powder strapped to his leg with a a chemical-filled syringe, he was tackled by a heroic passenger aboard Northwest Flight 253.

The passenger, Dutch video director Jasper Schuringa, told CNN he heard a big bang that sounded like a firecracker, then saw smoke and flames.

Schuringa said saw the man's pants were open and he was holding a burning object between his legs.

"I pulled the object from him and tried to extinguish the fire with my hands and threw it away," Schuringa said.

Schuringa grabbed Mutallab and pulled him to the front of the plane.

"He was staring into nothing," Schuringa said.

Schuringa said he stripped off the man's clothes to check for other explosives and a crew member helped handcuff him. Passengers apparently applauded his efforts as he walked back to his seat.

"My hands are pretty burned. I am fine," Schuringa said. "I am shaken up."

Schuringa was taken to the University of Michigan Medical Center Friday night.

The suspect boarded the Airbus 330 - carrying 278 passengers and 11 crew members - in Amsterdam after arriving on a flight from Lagos.

He told authorities he got the explosives in Yemen and received orders from Al Qaeda operatives to detonate the device on a plane over U.S. soil, officials said.

He is an engineering student at the University College in London. His last-known address near the school is a $4 million apartment in Central London. Police were searching there Saturday morning.

This Day reported that the suspect has been known for extremist religious views since high school at the British International School in Lome, Togo.

"At the secondary school, he was known for preaching about Islam to his schoolmates and he was popularly called 'Alfa,' a local coinage for Islamic scholar," This Day reported.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... z0apbFsrQV

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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 27, 2009
I see you are still presenting 'quaint belief No. 1' (QB1) as fact.
philosophy-dubai/handy-list-quaint-beliefs-t39802.html#p321473

Just for fun, starting next month, I'm going to keep a count of how many times you bring up QB1, QB2 etc

We may even have a sweepstake for the number by the end of the month (you can't play, because you obviously can influence the outcome).

Participants can PM me their estimates and I'll announce the winner at the beginning of February.
:bigsmurf:


But on a more serious note - this could have been a much worse incident had it gone to plan.

Now, given that we were all not allowed to carry on board liquids due to the numpties in the UK - I guess we'll now all be subject to either strip searches or some 'intimate' searches - given the reports where the explosives were hidden:
The explosives were sewn into his underwear in Yemen, ABC reported, for what was supposed to be a suicide attack.

Nigeria has ordered its security agencies to investigate the incident and said they will "co-operate fully" with the US investigations.
Members of a wealthy Nigerian family have confirmed to journalists that he is the son of the former chairman of First Bank of Nigeria, the BBC's Caroline Duffield reports from Lagos.

:shock:

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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 27, 2009
So much for 'firecrackers':

Officials now say tragedy was only averted on Northwest flight 253 because a makeshift detonator failed to work properly.

Bomb experts say there was more than enough explosive to bring down the Northwest jet, which had nearly 300 people aboard, had the detonator not failed, and the nation's outdated airport screening machines may need to be upgraded.


Not only that, but it looks like the spiritual mentor of jihadist Nidal Hasan also had a hand in this plot:

The bomb was built and the plot organized, say U.S. officials, by al Qaeda leaders in Yemen, just north of the capital city of Sanaa.

Authorities say the 23-year-old suspect spent months in Yemen being trained for the Christmas Day suicide mission.

Investigators believe Abdulmutallab was connected to al Qaeda by the same radical imam, American-born Anwar Awlaki, who is linked to the American Army major accused of opening fire at Fort Hood in November.

According to investigators, the bomb used yesterday was built in Yemen by a top al Qaeda bomb maker.


This attempted attack is the result of the teachings in the Koran guaranteeing martyrdom for Muslims who die whilst killing unbelievers.

Koran 9:111 - God has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of God; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon God in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who fulfils his covenant truer than God? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph.
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 27, 2009
BUhahahahaha ! :laughing6:

The moment I heard this new today morining on the radio. 1st thing that came to mind was that our resident troll would put up a thread for this. And glad to see he didn't disapoint !
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 27, 2009
I feel sorry for all the Nigerian-looking guys who are now going to have their 'packages' examined!

Perhaps they'll be an increase in customs/immigration official applications from San Francisco! ?

:bigsmurf:

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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 27, 2009
Another third world cockroach being allowed into the first world, and this is how we are repaid.... why not just say to hell with PC and prohibit all cockroachs from getting within 100 feet of an airplane. ..and by treating everyone to a small ham sandwich and a shot of whiskey.... Orthodox Jews could be excused from the ham. ... Anyone who refuses doesn't board the aircraft. :D


.
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 27, 2009
chevaliers-de-sion wrote:Another third world cockroach being allowed into the first world, and this is how we are repaid.... why not just say to hell with PC and prohibit all cockroachs from getting within 100 feet of an airplane. ..and by treating everyone to a small ham sandwich and a shot of whiskey.... Orthodox Jews could be excused from the ham. ... Anyone who refuses doesn't board the aircraft. :D


.


Ok! now there is something wrong with this flag guy, seriously!!
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 27, 2009
Oh don't worry just like any other troll, he' strying to seek attention and spark controversy. Because its in only the virtual world anybody pays attention to them. In the real world they usually turn out to be pimply, pocket protector wearing, thick spectacled nerds.

Troll of Zion in real life
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 27, 2009
The whole story is so funny and weird..Do they think that all the muslims, and non-muslims are so gullible to believe in such silly set-up, fictitious incident.

I don’t believe it at all. Next time to be more convincing, some people either jew or christian backed by their governments shall or should try to blow up a plane on the expense of the muslims...
Now that would be the way to keep up public opinion for the war against muslim countries and islam…

Ha haah..

Otherwise I will only regard this news as the latest episode of media hype and hearsay, and probably one of the examples of long chain of fabrications by either some sort of western regime or media provocator in order to justify their unjust fights/war in muslim countries where they are failing , given the large sums of public money spent on anti-terror measures and reconstructive efforts.
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 27, 2009
Berrin wrote:The whole story is so funny and weird..Do they think that all the muslims, and non-muslims are so gullible to believe in such silly set-up, fictitious incident.

I don’t believe it at all. Next time to be more convincing, some people either jew or christian backed by their governments shall or should try to blow up a plane on the expense of the muslims...
Now that would be the way to keep up public opinion for the war against muslim countries and islam…

Ha haah..

Otherwise I will only regard this news as the latest episode of media hype and hearsay, and probably one of the examples of long chain of fabrications by either some sort of western regime or media provocator in order to justify their unjust fights/war in muslim countries where they are failing , given the large sums of public money spent on anti-terror measures and reconstructive efforts.


It's a matter of personal belief, I suppose.

Many Muslims also believe that all of the terrorist attacks in Iraq and Pakistan (and pretty much everywhere else in the world) are actually carried out by Zionists or the CIA or Blackwater or even the Indian government - the last one depending if the attack occurred in Pakistan, of course.

I choose to believe that this attack was carried out by a devout Muslim who took a literal interpretation of the texts and teachings of Islam to wage defensive Jihad warfare against unbelievers - which is a requirement for every able bodied Muslim, unlike offensive Jihad where it is only a communal obligation for Muslims under the Caliph to wage wars of aggression against the non-Muslim world.

I tend to look at things simplistically and I have a hard time believing that the CIA or the Zionists simply have enough dedicated members who would be willing to blow themselves up in the numbers we have seen in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. I mean, they don't even have a health plan (although they may still get the virgins)!
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 28, 2009
desertdudeshj wrote:Oh don't worry just like any other troll, he' strying to seek attention and spark controversy. Because its in only the virtual world anybody pays attention to them. In the real world they usually turn out to be pimply, pocket protector wearing, thick spectacled nerds.

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:mrgreen:
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 28, 2009
Sudden Jihad Syndrome

The tendency among supposedly Westernized Muslims living in the United States to unexpectedly lash out violently in an act of self-initiated (and usually small scale) Islamic terrorism.

Also abbreviated to “SJS” or “S.J.S.” Examples include Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar who drove his SUV into a crowd at the University of North Carolina in 2006, Naveed Alzal Haq who shot people at a Jewish Federation Center in Seattle also in 2006, Hesham Mohammed Hadayet who murdered people at the El Al terminal in the Los Angeles Airport in 2002 — among many others.

In all of these instances, the perpetrators had no known direct connection to any established group, and because of this the authorities inevitably refrain from describing their actions as “terrorism” — hence the sarcastic term “Sudden Jihad Syndrome.”


The definition should be extended to any supposedly Westernized Muslims living in the US or Europe. UK seem to be growing terrorists on trees.
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 28, 2009
Flying Dutchman wrote:Sudden Jihad Syndrome

The tendency among supposedly Westernized Muslims living in the United States to unexpectedly lash out violently in an act of self-initiated (and usually small scale) Islamic terrorism.

Also abbreviated to “SJS” or “S.J.S.” Examples include Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar who drove his SUV into a crowd at the University of North Carolina in 2006, Naveed Alzal Haq who shot people at a Jewish Federation Center in Seattle also in 2006, Hesham Mohammed Hadayet who murdered people at the El Al terminal in the Los Angeles Airport in 2002 — among many others.

In all of these instances, the perpetrators had no known direct connection to any established group, and because of this the authorities inevitably refrain from describing their actions as “terrorism” — hence the sarcastic term “Sudden Jihad Syndrome.”


The definition should be extended to any supposedly Westernized Muslims living in the US or Europe. UK seem to be growing terrorists on trees.



So why doesnt UK get bombed by USA for growing terroists on trees???? didnt iraq and afghanistan and pakistan got bombed because of the same reasons?

wait i know because the brits are a civilized bunch who have tea every afternoon and they certainly do dip their biscuits well i tell ya and i believe they invite their neighbours around for a good hanky panky under the table :D

man someone needs to nuke the brits for growing terroists.
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 29, 2009
Well, we should remember that Israel was instrumental is setting up Hamas (when it viewed Fatah/PLO as the enemy) and that the CIA were instrumental in setting up Al Qaeda, and US and UK special forces trained them - when they were 'Mujahedeen' and fighting the Ruskies.

In fact, as Chomsky points out in 'Hegemony or Survival' if we follow US logic and agree it is ok to bomb cities of countries which harbour terrorists and refuse to extradite them, then we should support Cuba if it decides to bomb apartment blocks in Miami.

There are terrorists in Miami who are wanted for planting bombs in Cuba - there are warrants out for their arrest and yet the US gives them protection and refuses to bring them to justice.

And this is just one of many such examples - Chomsky gives numerous examples of the US carrying out acts of state terrorism.

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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 29, 2009
Well, I didn't know that the CIA was instrumental in setting up al Qaeda. The only person who believes that seems to be a British reporter, IIRC. Let me know how the US set up al Qaeda, exactly, and if the US ever directly aided the Arab Afghans - my understanding is that the Arab Afghans were fiercely anti American and they were only funded by the Pakistanis and Saudis, the US directly aided the Afghan fighters, however.
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 29, 2009
event horizon wrote:Well, I didn't know that the CIA was instrumental in setting up al Qaeda. The only person who believes that seems to be a British reporter, IIRC. Let me know how the US set up al Qaeda, exactly, and if the US ever directly aided the Arab Afghans - my understanding is that the Arab Afghans were fiercely anti American and they were only funded by the Pakistanis and Saudis, the US directly aided the Afghan fighters, however.


Ok, you want specific reference that the US aided Arab fighters in Afghanistan - and want it from a non-British reporter.

Fair enough.

How about this:


May 25, 2003

'Charlie Wilson's War': Arming the Mujahedeen
By DAVID JOHNSTON

For most of his 24-year career in the House of Representatives, Charles Wilson was known for his abiding fondness for hot tubs, women and Scotch whiskey. His friends at the Central Intelligence Agency said, only partly in jest, that the Texas Democrat's reputation as a roue provided a perfect cover for his great passion, the mujahedeen rebellion against the Soviet Union's occupation of Afghanistan. During the 1980's, Wilson used his seat on a military appropriations subcommittee to steer billions of dollars in secret funding to the C.I.A. to funnel arms to the mujahedeen.

So it was hardly a surprise after the Soviets' humiliating withdrawal in 1989 that the C.I.A.'s spymasters invited Wilson out to celebrate at the agency's headquarters at Langley, Va. On a large movie screen in an auditorium at the George Bush Center for Intelligence flashed a huge quotation from Pakistan's president, Gen. Mohammad Zia ul-Haq, who had willingly allowed the C.I.A.'s arms pipeline to flow through his country. Zia credited Wilson with the defeat of the Russians in Afghanistan with the words, ''Charlie did it.''

In ''Charlie Wilson's War,'' George Crile, a veteran ''60 Minutes'' producer, recounts the story of Wilson's personal journey from the East Texas Bible Belt to Congress, where he became the secret patron of what was then the largest covert operation in C.I.A. history. Of course, the American effort to arm the mujahedeen must be measured against recent events like the Sept. 11 attacks. The Qaeda hijackings underscored how the American-financed war against the Soviets in Afghanistan helped create a political vacuum filled by the Taliban and Islamic extremists, who turned their deadly terrorism back against the United States.

Moreover, there was concern within intelligence circles about the hundreds of Stinger missile systems that the C.I.A. supplied to the mujahedeen forces in the 1980's to combat the Russians' most fearful weapon, the Mi-24 Hind helicopter gunship. After the Soviet withdrawal, the agency embarked on a costly buyback program, but most of the missiles remained unaccounted for. American military commanders feared they might be used during the war in Afghanistan that followed the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

But in its time there was little dispute that the covert war was one of the most successful C.I.A. operations ever undertaken, a deadly confrontation conducted through a surrogate with the Soviet empire in its death throes. Only a handful of people in the government knew that behind the Afghan resistance was a pirate's crew of misfits, most notably Charlie Wilson himself, whom Crile affectionately profiles as the lawmaker who widened the war through a series of backroom deals on Capitol Hill that were never publicly disclosed or debated.

For most of his years in the House until he retired in 1996, Wilson rarely spoke on the House floor and was never associated with any of the great legislative issues of his day. He infuriated colleagues like Pat Schroeder, a Colorado Democrat, by calling her ''Babycakes,'' and acknowledged when he announced his retirement that ''at times I've been a reckless and rowdy public servant.'' But Crile asserts that Wilson's flaky public persona concealed a fervent anti-Communist and deeply ambitious politician, who built a power base in Congress that he used to pour money into the Afghan cause. In return for voting for military contracts in his colleagues' districts, Wilson won votes from his fellow lawmakers for the mujahedeen.

From a few million dollars in the early 1980's, support for the resistance grew to about $750 million a year by the end of the decade. The decisions were made in secret by Wilson and other lawmakers on the appropriations committee. To help make his case, Wilson exploited one of the decade's scandals, the Iran-contra affair, arguing that Democrats who were voting to cut off funding for the contras in Nicaragua could demonstrate their willingness to stand up to the Soviet empire by approving more money for the Afghan fighters.

''Charlie Wilson's War'' is a behind-the-scenes chronicle of a program that is still largely classified. Crile does not provide much insight into his reporting methods, but the book appears to be based on interviews with a number of the principals. The result is a vivid narrative, though a reader may wonder how much of this story is true in exactly the way Crile presents it. Still, few people who remember Wilson's years in Washington would discount even the wildest tales.

Crile recounts with relish Wilson's partying. There are many anecdotes of his overseas travels, first-class at taxpayers' expense, accompanied by former beauty queens who seem to pop up at events in conservative Islamic countries wearing skintight jumpsuits. In one odd moment, according to Crile, Wilson brought his own belly dancer from Texas to Cairo to entertain the Egyptian defense minister, who was secretly supplying the mujahedeen with millions of rounds of ammunition for the AK-47's that the C.I.A. was smuggling into Afghanistan. Her sultry dancing went far beyond the prudish norms of Cairo, but delighted the powerful minister.

Crile tells us that Wilson enjoyed driving to distraction a succession of C.I.A. officials as he prodded the agency to supply the fighters with increasingly more lethal weapons. The agency bureaucrats were content with a modest program designed to bleed the Soviets, whereas Wilson envisioned a war that the mujahedeen could win. As the money for the war began to flow, the C.I.A. put one of its own misfits in charge of the operation, Gust Avrakotos. He formed a small band of agency officers who quickly got behind the war in Afghanistan. Tens of thousands of automatic weapons, antitank guns, even satellite intelligence maps, redrawn in the form of crude maps that might have been penned by the mujahedeen themselves -- all of it was carried across Pakistan's border into Afghanistan on the backs of mules procured by the C.I.A. from as far away as the Tennessee hill country.

On Feb. 15, 1989, Gen. Boris Gromov, commander of the Soviets' 40th Army, walked across Friendship Bridge as the last Russian to leave Afghanistan. The C.I.A. cable from the Islamabad station to Langley said, ''We won.'' Wilson's own note to Avrakotos said simply, ''We did it.''


David Johnston, a senior Washington correspondent for The Times, covers terrorism and national security issues.

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company |


Did you not see the film?

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Shafique
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 29, 2009
Interesting also to note the reason AQAP (Al Qaeda in Arabian Peninsular) give for the attempted attack:

Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) said the plot was to avenge US attacks on militants in Yemen, a US monitoring organisation reported.


I expect eh-oh will be quoting QB1 and writing to AQAP to tell them they are wrong, and should state that they want to kill all non-Muslims because the Quran tells them so.

:bigsmurf:

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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 29, 2009
Here's a quote from a former UK Foreign Secretary, the late Robin Cook:

Osama bin Laden is no more a true representative of Islam than General Mladic, who commanded the Serbian forces, could be held up as an example of Christianity. After all, it is written in the Qur'an that we were made into different peoples not that we might despise each other, but that we might understand each other.

Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/jul/0 ... evelopment


eh-oh, you really shouldn't believe all the neo-con spin. Perhaps you still believe there are WMD in Iraq?

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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 29, 2009
Your first article didn't say that the Arab Afghans and, more specifically, al Qaeda, were armed and trained by the CIA - perhaps you don't know what the term 'Afghan Arab' means?



Your second article is the only one that actually chafes with what I said. The author claims that Bin Laden was armed by the CIA and insinuates that al Qaeda - the Afghan Arabs, were also armed, trained and funded by the US.

The claim has floated around on the internet for the past eight years or so and every once in awhile it's brought up again. I've never seen evidence that the Afghan Arabs were directly armed by the US. Rather, they were armed by Pakistan and funded by the Saudis.

Wikipedia says this about Operation Cyclone:

The U.S. government has been criticized for allowing Pakistan to channel a disproportionate amount of its funding to controversial Afghan resistance leader Gulbuddin Hekmatyar,[18] who Pakistani officials believed was "their man".[19] Hekmatyar has been criticized for killing other mujahideen and attacking civilian populations, including shelling Kabul with American-supplied weapons, causing 2,000 casualties. Hekmatyar was said to be friendly with Osama bin Laden, founder of al-Qaeda, who was running an operation for assisting "Afghan Arab" volunteers fighting in Afghanistan, called Maktab al-Khadamat. Alarmed by his behavior, Pakistan leader General Zia warned Hekmatyar, "It was Pakistan that made him an Afghan leader and it is Pakistan who can equally destroy him if he continues to misbehave."[20]

In the late 1980s, Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto, concerned about the growing strength of the Islamist movement, told President George H. W. Bush, "You are creating a Frankenstein."[21]

The U.S. says that all of its funds went to native Afghan rebels and denies that any of its funds were used to supply Osama bin Laden or foreign Arab mujahideen. It is estimated that 35,000 foreign Muslims from 43 Islamic countries participated in the war.[22][23][24][25]


So, Pakistan, using some money from the United States, used some money to fund an Afghan warlord who in turn, may have funded Osama bin Laden, who was currently funding a group called Maktab al-Khidamat, not al Qaeda.

And you want me to get my facts straight?
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 29, 2009
shafique wrote:Interesting also to note the reason AQAP (Al Qaeda in Arabian Peninsular) give for the attempted attack:

Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) said the plot was to avenge US attacks on militants in Yemen, a US monitoring organisation reported.


I expect eh-oh will be quoting QB1 and writing to AQAP to tell them they are wrong, and should state that they want to kill all non-Muslims because the Quran tells them so.

:bigsmurf:

Cheers,
Shafique


Oh yes, good point. The operation that was planned months ago - they recruited a suicide bomber (unless you believe that was done last week), constructed the explosives and detonator, etc, was *really* carried out because the Yemeni government bombed al Qaeda bases last week.
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 29, 2009
Hey, of course the US (and allies) don't admit to funding Al Qaeda and training Bin Laden - you don't expect them to admit it do you??

Robin Cook was explicit about the link and he (as a former Foreign Secretary) knew what he was talking about.

Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west.


As for the motive for the attempted bombing - the Yemenis are quite clear - it is because of attacks against them, not because of QB1. And yes, you really do need to do your homework over the attacks against Yemeni rebels and whether they only took place 'last week' - FD can help you out here. ;)

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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 29, 2009
Hey, of course the US don't admit to funding Al Qaeda and training Bin Laden - you don't expect them to admit it do you??


That would be difficult for them to do since the evidence does not show that they funded and trained al Qaeda - the US claim wasn't until the end of the quote and I didn't bother to highlight it.

The evidence *does* show that the US funded Pakistan's ISI agency, which in turn funded the Afghan rebels - perhaps Afghan Arabs directly (although the article says the Arabs may have been funded by Pakistani money only indirectly too).

Still, I don't see evidence that the US directly funded, armed and trained al Qaeda - they didn't even exist until 1988 in any event, other than what the quote you provided has said, which is probably a simplification on the foreign secretary's part that the US helped out the Afghan mujaheddin, which in turn helped out the Afghan Arabs.

As for the motive for the attempted bombing - the Yemenis are quite clear - it is because of attacks against them


Which attack? The one a few days ago? Let me just chuckle at the thought that al Qaeda recruited and trained a suicide bomber in less than 72 hours, picked the target, got the visas and passports ready to go, financed the operation, and constructed a somewhat sophisticated explosive device all in less than a week.

That's in addition to having their senior leaders killed also.
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 29, 2009
Ha ha - as I said, you can ask FD about the attacks against the Yemeni rebels and how long they've been going on.

I know you want to believe the US/ISI denials - no problems there. I just find Robin Cook, et al, more credible. Cook is quite specific, but good attempt to explain his words away. If you click through to the article itself, you'll see he makes the points very clearly.

I didn't believe the US when they said there were WMD, but perhaps you did?

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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 29, 2009
Ha ha - as I said, you can ask FD about the attacks against the Yemeni rebels and how long they've been going on.


No, I'm not. Perhaps you can supply a link about how long al Qaeda rebels in Yemen have been bombed - unless you're referring to the houthi rebels - who are shiite?

I just find Robin Cook


Is this the same 'expert' who believed al Qaeda meant 'the database' as opposed to 'the base'?

Cook is quite specific


Well, his claims should be easy to verify then. I didn't see anything specific in his quote though. Just accusations that the US trained Osama bin Laden - even though it was the ISI that did all the training and the CIA, I believe, never ventured outside of Pakistan (and I don't believe bin Laden ventured into Pakistan).

So....
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 29, 2009
As I said, you are free to believe the US denials. I don't.

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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 30, 2009
shafique wrote:As I said, you are free to believe the US denials. I don't.

Cheers,
Shafique


I don't think reporters who spent time in Pakistan and Afghanistan, along with scholars or Pakistani officials, are the US.

But perhaps you can address what CNN journalist Peter Bergen says of the connection:

The story about bin Laden and the CIA — that the CIA funded bin Laden or trained bin Laden — is simply a folk myth. There's no evidence of this. In fact, there are very few things that bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and the U.S. government agree on. They all agree that they didn't have a relationship in the 1980s. And they wouldn't have needed to. Bin Laden had his own money, he was anti-American and he was operating secretly and independently. The real story here is the CIA did not understand who Osama was until 1996, when they set up a unit to really start tracking him.


http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/0 ... index.html

Or Pakistani Brigadier Mohammad Yousaf, who was head of the ISI from 83 to 87:

It was always galling to the Americans, and I can understand their point of view, that although they paid the piper they could not call the tune. The CIA supported the mujahideen by spending the taxpayers' money, billions of dollars of it over the years, on buying arms, ammunition, and equipment. It was their secret arms procurement branch that was kept busy. It was, however, a cardinal rule of Pakistan's policy that no Americans ever become involved with the distribution of funds or arms once they arrived in the country. No Americans ever trained or had direct contact with the mujahideen, and no American official ever went inside Afghanistan.


Indeed, the entire point of Operation Cyclone was so that the Americans could hurt the Soviets without having to do any heavy lifting. And I can only imagine the implications if the Soviets did manage to capture American agents in Afghanistan.
event horizon
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 30, 2009
Hey, I too can quote to you the longer sections from wiki which contradict the US denials.

As I said, it comes down who you choose to believe.

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 30, 2009
Oh, I definitely agree - one will have to choose from a British government employee who believed that al Qaeda meant the 'database' or from scholars who have specialized on the subject, such as Olivier Roy, heavyweight journalists who spent time in the region interviewing Islamic militants, such as Peter Bergen and Pakistani officials who were behind the actual training of Afghan militants and dismiss claims that the CIA went around training the Afghan Arabs.
event horizon
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 31, 2009
Published: Today
JET terrorist Umar Abdulmutallab is a sexually frustrated loner who nurtured fantasies about holy war, The Sun can reveal.
crusader 1
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Re: From Nigeria with love Dec 31, 2009
event horizon wrote:Oh, I definitely agree - one will have to choose from a British government employee.


:lol: :lol:

Robin Cook was hardly a civil servant - he was the Foreign Secretary of Her Majesty's Government!

"You know what you are? You're a hoot - that's what you are - a hoot!"
:alien:

Cheers,
Shafique
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