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if it is great why did it make unbelievers

God does not make you or create you to be unbeliever (or wishes you to be unbeliever) but gives you will and allows you to become a believer or an unbeliver..You make your choise....I am a believer myself, not becouse someone forces me but due to my self-determination. My self determination leads my roads to Islam but nothing else…As I also have the choise to become a disbeliever or believe in something else…

Some analogy…
Inside a family (world), mother-father (creator)/children (creatures) have house rules (quran) established to run it effectively for peace and happiness both inside and outside(hereafter)
If children do something out of the rules and persist, parents (creator) have the choice to show their dislike by staying firm (using the necessary vocabulary to be either detterent (fear) or encouraging(sympathy) while holding the choice for punishment on the list of things they can do.

Didn’t you ever hear parents say to their children- “I don’t like or approve you becouse you do -so and so”..

Or.. parents complaining their children to their relatives, teachers, consultants like- “ My son or daughter is worse if compared to “so and so” becouse he/she does “such, so and so”…

That’s how we should understand God’s vehement statements in quran. As a creator he basically shows us who he likes and approves for reward in paradise and whom he dislike and will punish..We say punish becouse with the house rules(quran) he uses all the significant vocabulary to be detterent and encouriging for his creatures. And sets crystial clear attributes to distinguish true belivers from unbelievers..

Such attributes also a way of encouragement for true believers to stick and stay in right path, in the way of Allah..That’s becouse if I didn’t know what my status and difference is from an unbeliever,I wouldn’t ever take the hassle of praying 5 times a day, do fasting for a whole month, and try to be a nicer character, just and fair person! If my status and attributes wasn’t told me, and if a disbeliever was equivalent of me beeing the disbeliever he is,in the hereafter- I simply wouldn’t do all I can to please God…instead I would take the laziest path and say and do all the worst that I can and behave ruthless and tyrant..

Last but not least by following Islam, I don’t violate anything brought by Christianity and judaism cause I still believe in the creator but worship with extra work and duties.

If we assume to be there is no life after death as some unbelievers say and as some non-muslims deny islam, my belief and my extra work of worship woun’t cost me anything therefore have nothing to loose when I am dead.
But if islam is the right path and there is hereafter than I will be the winner while the rest will be eternal loosers with no chance and excuse to come back to do their duties that they mocked when they were given the opportunity.

End…
This must be enough lecturing for those looking for response..

Islam forbids a man from marrying:

his father's wife (his mother, or step-mother), his mother-in-law, a woman from whom he has nursed,
either parent's sister,
his sister, a woman who has nursed from the same woman as he, his sister-in-law (while still married to her sister),
his niece,
his daughter, his step-daughter (if the marriage to her mother had been consummated), his daughter-in-law.

simple as that boys

And what the bible really says about inter-marital relations and issues?

Nothing.
.
.
.
.
.
Nada.
.

.

.

Zilch.

.

.

.

Zero.

.

.


Zip.

.
.

.

Not a dicky bird...

..........
What's more thought provoking is that while marriage must be heterosexual , few denominations recently have extended the definition to include two people of the same sex.. Such a shame that they can't produce kids to witness deformities..
No wonder why the number of disbelievers from christian and jewish world are on increase.

merry xmas to you too

Abraham
Genesis 20:12

And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

i.e : Half Sister

@ Rudeboy. Christmas is not even actually chirstmas i.e : Jesus wasn't born on 25th Dec

alrito then!

his daughter-in-law.

Doesn't seem like Muhammad knew that - not only did he marry his daughter-in-law but he also married his first cousin at the same time.

I guess Muhammad was the type of prophet who didn't worry about 'blood relations' (or polygamy or statutory rape). He liked to keep it in the family as they say in the South.

That would explain why he married his daughter off to his first cousin too. But again, I guess he didn't know that Islam doesn't allow one to marry their niece.

And what the bible really says about inter-marital relations and issues?

You can find prohibitions of inter-marital relations right after the passage in the epistle of James where Jesus says that faith without works is dead.

Let me guess, you've been letting shafique tutor you on the Bible, haven't you?

The above declaration of inter-religious harmony is a thousand years older than the American Bill of Rights. Clearly shows that disbelievers/non-muslims are to be left alone provided that they don’t threaten the existence of the religion islam and the life of muslims.…

And over a thousand years younger than when the Persians, Greeks (Alexander the Great) and Romans also allowed for freedom of religion and toleration - imagine that - the pagans of the jahiliyya were doing something the Muslims could only copy off of.

Then you should ponder why before prophet jesus there was prophet moses and why after prophet jesus, came the prophet mohammed, all conveying the same message inviting people to worship the same God alone…and than ponder why prophethood and revelations ceased after prophet mohammed!…

I'm pretty sure Jews were already monotheists at the time of Jesus. But I agree with what you are implying, Jesus extended his membership to pagans who did not believe in one God, which is why Jesus ministered amongst Gentiles as well as Jews. Good point.

A Christian gave this answer when asked if cousin marriages are forbidden by Christianity:

No it is not against the bible! There are many instances in the bible where God commands cousins to marry. There will be people that will try to say that it is forbidden under the law of the bible but you can check Lev:18 which is the book of law in the bible and this particular passage outlines what relationships are not allowed and cousins are not on the list of relationships that are not allowed by God! Read for yourself!
Now as for the idiot that said that you and your cousins genes are so close that there will be birth defects etc... he is a truly uninformed and ignorant person. Do the research and you will find that the average couple have a 3 to 5 percent chance of having a child with birth defects and a cousin couple runs a 5 to 7 percent chance of children with defects.This means that the odds of you and your cousin having a child that is born with a birth defect is no greater than that of a wouman that is 40yrs old having a child with birth defects. Society is basing their judgements on cousin marriages and the children of cousin marriages on a report that was published almost 100yrs ago and was based on absolutely no scientific merit! Todays genetics has proven that there is only a slightly higher chance of birth defects in children of cousin relationships than in the average couple. The New York times even did an article on this subject. Do yourself a favor and don't listen to morons that say its wrong or say you will have defective children. Do the research for yourself!!! I myself am in a relationship with my 1st cousin and did all the research myself and was amazed at all the disinformation out there to discourage relationships between cousins.

The Church of England does not rule out first cousin marriages:

Church of England
The Church of England traditionally follows the rules set out in the Book of Common Prayer which includes a "Table of Kindred and Affinity". This states that:
A Man may not marry his mother, daughter, adopted daughter, father's mother, mother's mother, son's daughter, daughter's daughter, sister, wife's mother, wife's daughter, father's wife, son's wife, father's father's wife, mother's father's wife, wife's father's mother, wife's mother's mother, wife's daughter's daughter, wife's son's daughter, son's son's wife, daughter's son's wife, father's sister, mother's sister, brother's daughter, sister's daughter.
A Woman may not marry with her father, son, adopted son, father's father, mother's father, son's son, daughter's son, brother, husband's father, husband's son, mother's husband, daughter's husband, father's mother's husband, mother's mother's husband, husband's father's father, husband's mother's father, husband's son's son, husband's daughter's son, son's daughter's husband, daughter's daughter's husband, father's brother, mother's brother, brother's son, sister's son.
It further states that the term 'brother' includes a brother of the half-blood, and the term 'sister' includes a sister of the half-blood.

So, another case of eh-oh proving to be all mouth no trousers!
(BTW I did look up James 2 - and 3 and 4 - and couldn't immediately see where Jesus says first cousin marriages are forbidden. I think eh believes everyone is like him and doesn't check/read??)

Cheers,
Shafique

(BTW I did look up James 2 - and 3 and 4 - and couldn't immediately see where Jesus says first cousin marriages are forbidden. I think eh believes everyone is like him and doesn't check/read??)

Well, no one can fool you. I'm glad that you looked up the epistle of James to check to see what Jesus says in that epistle.

I'm glad you're glad.

Now, is this going to be another 'all mouth, no trousers' incident. As I said, I couldn't see where Jesus says that first cousin marriages are forbidden.

The Christian quoted above clearly states that the Bible doesn't say this, and the Church of England ruling above also does not forbid these.

So is there some substance (this time) in your claim, or is it 'all mouth no trousers' again?

event horizon wrote:

his daughter-in-law.

Doesn't seem like Muhammad knew that - not only did he marry his daughter-in-law but he also married his first cousin at the same time.

I guess Muhammad was the type of prophet who didn't worry about 'blood relations' (or polygamy or statutory rape). He liked to keep it in the family as they say in the South.

That would explain why he married his daughter off to his first cousin too. But again, I guess he didn't know that Islam doesn't allow one to marry their niece.

man this guy is a TROLL he probably copied and pasted this from some anti islam website.

Hey cuckoooo Muhammad (pbuh) didnt have a son so how could he have married his daughter-in-law lol stop reading anti islam websites and do your own research

who didn't worry about 'blood relations'

lol, yes he didn't worry about what he revealed...

You see RB, we're one more step further to compile the profile of a troll brother.
Now we know why he cant read what we provide and that he cant read what he pastes...
Simply He is blind!
The storks tell me that his father married to his half Sister!

I'm pretty sure Jews were already monotheists at the time of Jesus. But I agree with what you are implying, Jesus extended his membership to pagans who did not believe in one God, which is why Jesus ministered amongst Gentiles as well as Jews. Good point.

Lol… your pretty sure Jews the monotheists, couldn’t grasp the message of our prophet moses, but worshiped the golden calf instead!...Later the dearest prophet jesus came to save them all out of their misery but the Jews the monotheists couldn’t stand his sight either, crucifing him all together! …So sad that the job to tackle the pagans and sort them all out was left over to our dearest prophet mohammed.
Yeah Good point..

So sad that the job to tackle the pagans and sort them all out was left over to our dearest prophet mohammed.
Yeah Good point..

Nope - Jewish Christians and Jews in the first century were spreading the message of monotheism to the world.

It's actually the very few times in history that Jews were, to a limited extent, converting others to their religion.

This trend continued and was preserved by the Jewish Christians since they managed to escape the brunt of Roman reprisals against Jerusalem. In the end, they were the ones who managed to eventually convert much of the Roman empire to Christianity.

Isn't that great? Prophet Muhammad really wasn't needed at all.

Indeed, with the exception of Arabia, the world Muhammad knew was thoroughly monotheistic when Muhammad and his successors launched wars of aggression against unbelievers.

Hey cuckoooo Muhammad (pbuh) didnt have a son so how could he have married his daughter-in-law lol stop reading anti islam websites and do your own research

Muhammad had a son, but he died as an infant. The son I'm referring to was Muhammad's step son whose wife Muhammad later married.

Personally, I would be troubled by such a marriage - I mean, who would marry their step son's wife, let alone marry their first cousin?

This is especially troubling since Muhammad already had about twenty other wives, including a child bride Muhammad married when she was still playing with dolls.

DUHHH first you said he had a son, now you are saying he had a STEP son lol make up your mind you fool.

Step son and adoptive son is the same thing fool lol because they are not your biological son. Therefore Zaid (pbuh) was not Muhammads (pbuh) biological son so I dont see why its a sin to marry your step sons EX-WIFE DUH

Zaid (pbuh) gave divorce to Zainab (pbuh) and then Muhammad (pbuh) married her. Again nothing wrong there mate. If you are going to say something then please tell everyone the full picture rather than just mixing up a few things here and there which suit your cause oh i forgot you iz a very badz troll.

lol what is it with you and dolls lol how the effing hell do you know that there were dolls some 1000 years ago lol

"oh she was playing with dolls when He married her" lol what is this you are narrator to some sad story or something

Eh-oh Go and read the history of your jewish and christian ancestors getting married to,just as you describe, their young mature brides playing with dolls. While reading also make sure that they weren't getting married to their half sisters but the cousins alright..

lol what is it with you and dolls lol how the effing hell do you know that there were dolls some 1000 years ago lol

On the authority of Aisha (RA), who said:

I used to play with dolls in the presence of the Prophet (SAW). And I had girl-friends (playmates) who played along with me. They would hide (feeling shy) from him (SAW) whenever he entered. But, he (SAW) would send for them to join me and they would play with me. (Sahih Bukhari & Muslim)

http://www.themuslimwoman.com/beware/Gi ... gDolls.htm

DUHHH first you said he had a son, now you are saying he had a STEP son lol make up your mind you fool.

I'm sorry rudeboy if that offended you. You must understand that I am a Westerner and my values and culture is different from yours. For instance, I abhor first cousin marriage and cringe at the thought of statutory rape. But as we both have seen, Muslims place value in marrying their young first cousins.

Ditto with marrying your step-son's wife. While your step-son is not your biological son, to a Westerner that makes no difference. Why would it matter that my 'step' child is technically not related to me when I marry his former wife? Why would one need to rationalize that fact when in every other way your step son has been the same to you as your biological child has? In fact, that's creepy to me every way I think of it - and it doesn't help that this woman Muhammad married was his first cousin and he had a number of wives to begin with!

To Westerners, these types of practices belong in the distant past where people were, perhaps, more primitive and susceptible to lewd conduct. I see nothing of value in this type of precedent that Muhammad has set for all Muslims for all times - in addition to his marrying a little girl. Hopefully, more Muslims will reject the Koran's teachings where it says to follow the precedent set forth by 'prophet' Muhammad along with the passages in the Koran calling for 'holy' war against unbelievers.

eh-oh, you seem to be missing the fact that many Christians follow the Biblical teachings and marry first cousins.

Not only Christians, like Winston Churchill, but Jewish people too - such as Albert Einstein.

I know you like to present yourself as an intellectual, but I think it is a stretch to try and present Eistein as either a:

1. non-westerner
2. someone from the distant past or
3. someone less inteligent than you.

Pull the other one, it has bells on!

Cheers,
Shafique

I'm not aware of any Biblical teaching in regards to first cousin marriages.

Perhaps you are still vexed over your the Martin Luther thread and you thought you would throw something out in the hopes of being correct.

On the other hand, Islam does teach Muslims that it is perfectly acceptable to marry first cousins. In fact, the Koran is crystal clear that following the Sunnah of Muhammad is a requirement for Muslims. And since Muhammad married his first cousin, this, too, would also be seen by most Muslims as a sufficient practice (like circumcision) to follow themselves in order to 'emulate' prophet Muhammad.

Now, if you can find any actual teaching in the Bible in regards to marrying your cousin, rather than examples of marriages between cousins, I would be happy to look at them. But since the Bible does not say to follow the Sunnah of David or Solomon or Abraham, for instance, I can only conclude you are pulling a claim from the same place where you thought that Jesus was the speaker of a passage in the epistle of James.

event horizon wrote:I'm not aware of any Biblical teaching in regards to first cousin marriages.

Exactly, the Bible only describes instances of cousins marrying and does not forbid first cousin marriages.


The point I was making though - was about your feigned indignation that 'westerners' find first cousin marriages abhorent and counter-cultural. I concede that many do, but this does not change the fact that Einstein, Churchill, Darwin etc etc all married first cousins and are examples of 'westerners' with 'western' cultural values.

There are Christians who support first cousin marriages - I quoted one who gave biblical references.

Similarly, there are Muslims who do not practice first cousin marriages - my family being one of them - but because they aren't forbidden (in either Bible or Quran) don't force our views onto others.

Cheers,
Shafique