Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk

http://www.thelondondailynews.com/lo...al-p-3609.html

And the Arabs here complain of foreigners.........

02 December, 2009 09:13 (GMT +00:00)

Londoners support calls to ban minarets in capital

75% support for the ban on minarets in London Daily News poll

News Desk

Londoners support the Swiss government’s decision to ban minarets and mosques according to a new poll in The London Daily News, further highlighting the "sensitivities" and concerns in the capital at the growing influence of Islam.

Callers to London's leading early morning radio show, the Nick Ferrari programme on LBC, also expressed their concerns with one caller citing how "out of character" a minaret would be if built in London.

London is the home to one of the largest number of mosques in the western world,apart from Turkey, with estimates putting the number at over one hundred. The "minaret" issue has become ever more controversial with the growth of Islamic extremism in the capital, and calls by a minority for Sharia law to be observed by all.

Harrow Council recently approved the building of the largest mosque in the capital, which will see Harrow Central Mosque serving Muslim worshippers from across north London when it is built on Station Road. Construction News in a report said:

"The designs include a 40m-high minaret, a gym, a crèche and a café within the 5,745 square metre developments. It is expected to open next year after Harrow Council approved changes to the original plans, which were passed in June 2000."

Increasingly London Muslims are demanding mosques to be built with traditional minarets, which reflect the liberal regime in place in the capital city. There are an estimated 1 million Muslims in London.

photo credit: London Daily News

A short photo essay of Islam's contributions to Britain:

I call this, 'ain't multiculturalism grand?'









The last guy is my neighbor, actually.

There are loads of mosques anyway in london, the problem is that areas have become ghettos for radicalism.



In the UK there is a serious problem of the second generation muslim rebelling against their parents by becoming radicals. Recently a muslim MP was attacked by some muslim men;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... otest.html

She should have pressed criminal charges - but again shows giving in to muslim bullies.

This is my major problem with Islam - there is no consensus as to what it is, some danish guys draw some 'harmless' cartoons and the entire islamic world goes crazy, muslims crash planes and blow up undergrounds and all we get is a murmour.

There's probably zero chance of London banning minarets - the government love Saudi money too much. Look at the way they compromised the justice system and stopped the investigation of bribery in the Al Yamama (sp?) affair.

Agree with Roadtester that a major problem with Muslims is a lack of unity and the presence of loads of small groups which will attract nutters who are very photogenic.

That said, the same could be applied to most religions - from the crazee Tibetan Monks who murdered because the Dalai Lama said they had to stop worshipping one of their violent gods, to all the funky crazy Christian terrorist groups.

Also, just to point out, - Baroness Varsi is a Muslim politician and did have eggs and abuse thrown at her. Throwing eggs (as well as rotten vegetables) is a long established British form of political expression. I guess though that when it is British Muslims who do the throwing, it becomes an Islamic issue . (And just to be pedantic Roadtester - she's a peer, not a Member of Parliament - she lost the election in 2005. She's a Tory and she's a great spokesperson for them - she's been on Question Time a few times, for example - and not always in step, for example she opposed the war in Iraq).

And what did she have to say on this incident? Well, let's see:

Baroness Warsi told the BBC that the men were ‘idiots who did not represent the majority of British Muslims’. She said they bring the Islamic faith into disrepute in exactly the same way as Nick Griffin brings Christianity into disrepute.

Now, to lighten the mood:

It's dangerous to draw conclusions from photos - I mean how fair would it be to say these people probably believed in what eh believes, for example:






[Sorry - I know we shouldn't jump to conclusions - but anyone who thinks he looks cool in this mullet may also have many other 'quaint' beliefs! ]

Shafique

I see shafique is now on step 2 in how to debate a non-Muslim, minimize the problem and compare it to relatively trivial situations.

(Step 1 is to deny, deny, deny - combined with step 2, it is known as the 'ostrich approach')

In this instance, shafique compared the radicalized Muslim population of Britain, whose members have actually carried out seven suicide attacks and several unsuccessful attacks - such as the four would-be suicide bombers who unsuccessfully blew themselves up two weeks after four other British Muslims blew themselves, and 52 other people, up on London public transport systems, to lone wolf terrorists who are supposedly members of other religions.

Ignoring that shafique is comparing apples to oranges, it would be interesting to look the number of people killed by Christian and Muslim terrorists in Britain and compare that to the number of people killed by Christian and Muslim terrorists in Pakistan.

As far as I know, there are zero Christian fundamentalist terror groups operating in Pakistan, but I think there might be one or two Muslim fundamentalist terror groups in Pakistan.

Sure, there are some (100,000+) radicalized British Muslims, but what about those monks in Tibet? They're totally as dangerous, numerous, relevant and radicalized as these British Muslim citizens are.

The crazy thing is in the UK though if white racist groups did a march with similarly agressive posters etc they would get arrested for 'inciting racism'. In addition NGO groups like a the Anti Nazi League etc would show up to counter protest.

This doesn't happen with these muslim groups and people keep sweeping it under the carpet 'they just a minority', 'they not representative of muslims' etc and as people stop dong things they keep growing.

The UK attacks were home grown attacks, the fact that they had turned their backs on the opportunities that the UK had offered them when there families came for asylum is horrific.

Hey, I thought my point about the UK government not wanting to offend the Saudis was a pretty non-trivial point - given that the topic was about some polls about banning minarets.

Banning minarets is a pretty silly idea - hence the redneck allusions (they also believe in silly - though not sophisticated enough to be 'quaint') ideas.

Roadster brought up an instance of a Muslim British politician having eggs thrown at her, and she called the guys 'idiots' who bring Islam into shame, the same way that british rednecks bring shame on Christianity.

Redneck is as redneck does:




Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Hey, I thought my point about the UK government not wanting to offend the Saudis was a pretty non-trivial point - given that the topic was about some polls about banning minarets.

Banning minarets is a pretty silly idea - hence the redneck allusions (they also believe in silly - though not sophisticated enough to be 'quaint') ideas.

Roadster brought up an instance of a Muslim British politician having eggs thrown at her, and she called the guys 'idiots' who bring Islam into shame, the same way that british rednecks bring shame on Christianity.

Cheers,
Shafique

He-he. It's their country. If you want to put your feet on the dinner table by building "structures" taller than local churches you have to pay the price.

In broader view nobody lets you build parallel Europe inside current one. Just one example from my own experience. I had one mooslim teacher from the first generation of emigrants here in Dubai. She was born in London but wears local black dress. Ironcally she tought English, the languge of the most hated country.

At the end of the course he asked me about the meaning of word "theatre" I had talked about quite frequently. Actually he thought that it was Opera. Oops I am describing a women that was born in the country of Shakespeare.

Well, along with the million or so Muslims in London, there are also a good number of Chavs. These two groups are not mutually exclusive - so you will have Muslim chavs (which reminds me of a 'Goodness Gracious Me' sketch - but that is another story).

These guys are our equivalent of rednecks - and they probably wouldn't know what a theatre is either.



And if you are wondering how to identify a chav, here's a handy guide to the female of the species:


And here seen in traditional attire:


And some Chav humour:

You don't understand or don't want to understand. She has been a TEACHER with Master degree. Perhaps I like old-fashion style of education but even in Russian school my child learnt about UK culture, sights and holydays because teachers cannot separate any language from its culture.
As far as I understand for many Mooslims English is only newspeak. (c) 1984

Shaf - indeed we have increasign social deliquency 'chavs' but thats because of too much human rights and no discipline. And though they can be drunken and violent they dont have the brains to blow anything up.

Hey you lot…Are you in some sort of humanity race?

The last guy is my neighbor, actually.

I see… is that why you turned against this religon EH eh? If so, what difference you have from them!

Trust me, Islam is a beautiful religion of God , look even Ahmaddiya muslims says so, and what they say is so true…
http://www.alislam.org/library/ContributionofIslam.html

This one is brillant.. look what Alexander Stark says about islam…
http://www.wefound.org/texts/Islam_file ... bubakr.htm

Those muslim chaps in the pictures basically scream loud and says us all that, there are major problems in the world and no one cares enough to stabilize these problems as much as they do themselves and know how to…

So there we go…. This Gentleman is your fellow worshipper, look what he has to say…
He shortly says: 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2309160/posts


Now we can come back to those minerates..
I admit that I don’t like those minarets built in western Europe..They make them look so podgy, ugly and stuffy in order to avoid publicity or let say the fear of rising islam from christians.
Instead, the local authorities should challange both christian and muslim architects on joint projects to build the most magnificent mosques one’s eyes can ever see (even on small scale projects.) and run joint events with muslims to increase public awareness on the insights of islam…

I personally find well designed minerats, tall and very elegant….
See we have some good examples here…
http://thewondrous.com/2009/08/40-most- ... the-world/

But then again I find wind turbines tall, elegant and s.x.y as well.(if I may say so)
http://i.treehugger.com/files/th_images ... rbines.jpg


now….end of taunting okay…

Therefore, while in traditional Arab cultures bisexual behaviour is known to occur, and people are not given much trouble about these behaviors so long as they marry and raise families and fulfill other societal duties, it is something which remains very covert, and an open declaration of homosexual preference would be unacceptable.

It has often been hypothesized that this same-sex sexual behavior may be a consequence of the sexual conservatism in Arab culture which results in men and women being partially or completely segregated from each other, thus removing the opportunity for contact between the sexes prior to marriage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexualit ... Arab_world

Thank you Berrin for your post.

It speaks volumes that shafique has resorted to pictures to get his point across.

Disappointed but not surprised.

But I agree with shafique on one point, the British government does not hesitate to operate against the wishes of the majority of Britain's law abiding, tax paying citizens.

A majority of Londoners have been informed enough of Islam in recent years to decide that they do not want minarets in their capital. Kudos to any British politician who seeks to enact the expressed wishes of most British citizens.

Yes, I agree - the British government won't enact stupid laws such as banning minarets despite what a particular poll might say. The system is designed to stop stupid laws being enacted, but sometimes that doesn't work. When Catholic Converts go ahead and agree with born again ex-Alcoholic numpty Presidents in the US, we go into illegal wars against the people's better judgement. That said, the majority of people also want Capital Punishment reintroduced, but the politicians won't let the majority have their way.

We can exchange photos of numpties all day - they all make my point which is that numpties tend to take extreme positions and say stupid things. I didn't start posting photos in this thread though.. and you can see what I said above before I posted the photos of your fellow 'believers'.

Muslims have their fair share of nutters, and as Baroness Varsi (a Muslim lady peer) said above:

.. the men were ‘idiots who did not represent the majority of British Muslims’. She said they bring the Islamic faith into disrepute in exactly the same way as Nick Griffin brings Christianity into disrepute.

Hey, to give them credit - your fellow 'believers' can be constructive sometimes:



Cheers,
Shafique

You call people red necks too quickly but actually they are majority of Swiss. Such vulgarization is the same approach as those radical Mooslims with notorious slogans have.

You misunderstand me - the redneck comparison is with Londoners who think that banning minarets in London will either:
a. happen
b. influence terrorism etc

Presumably you agree that rednecks/chavs would agree with eh's views on the subject?

My photos of rednecks and chavs were to make the point that it is dangerous to draw conclusions from photos of un-representative people (refer back to the quote from the Muslim politician whom roadtester introduced).

The Swiss are just expressing their views on the subject and good on them, better be openly Islamophobic than keep it in, I say. People can then choose whether or not to visit/do business based on these views.

It would be interesting if anyone disagrees with me that the UK would never hold such a referendum.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:You misunderstand me - the redneck comparison is with Londoners who think that banning minarets in London will either:
a. happen
b. influence terrorism etc

Of caurse I disagree. People can think such way for many reasons. Any national country resists newcomers who disrespect their lifestyles. Nobody is happy when minorities are encapsulated to comunities. I know adoptation is a long process but somebody doesn't even want to start it and have read one book all his life instead.

I'm a Londoner, and I'm pretty proud of our China town, Bangla Town, Arab-town (Edgeware Rd) and other areas. We have Chinese pagodas and massive Hindu Temples (Neasden) as well as many minarets. And these have been part of London for decades.

Hence, my view that those who believe London should ban minarets are banned are as silly as some of the other numpties shown in this thread.

Cheers,
Shafique

Probably I made a mistake and London is like NYC nowadays, a shelter for migrants from all over the World. I will ask another Londoners. I doubt that he is happy as well though.

On the other hand it doesn't matter who waste money at every single moments: Arabs, Russians or Indians. Eventually they come to London's luxuary shops and British banks. It's a good reason to be such a cosmolitan place.

The rest of England is quite different I think.

London is very cosmopolitan, but so is much of the UK nowadays.

The favourite food in Scotland is curry, and the Indian restaurant is an institution throughout the isles (although they are mostly Bangladeshi). We have Brits are are of West Indian, Asian (as in South Asian), European, Asian (as in Vietnamese and Chinese) - all second or third generation Brits.

The country is actually more split along social class lines than by religion - in the leafy suburbs the classes are quite mixed racially, but less so in terms of wealth. All live in similar houses, drive similar cars and increasingly eat similar food (All eat pizzas, curries etc). In many ways - similar to Dubai, come to think of it.

All the major cities are similarly mixed - with even Asian shopkeepers and Chinese restaurants in far flung Scottish islands. Liverpool has a long history of migrants, so has the northern mill towns - some of which have developped ghettos of Kashmiri Muslims, or Gujarati Sikhs - alongside working class white-only areas. Once people get out of the working class - usually by education, but sometimes by business - they move out and mix with the gentry.

When I was in the UK, I went on pheasant shoots (for example) and mixed with people who were in the ruling classes as well as 'ordingary folk' - and just happened to share a hobby with other Brits. We didn't discuss religion -but I wouldn't be surprised if there were Catholics, Anglicans, Jewish, Atheists in our shooting parties -all got on famously. (And yes, I had a gun licence and owned a shotgun - the police were more than courteous when they came round to vet me before issuing and renewing the gun licence)

Cheers,
Shafique

Thanks for your inf. Quite sad, especially reminiscence about Dubai. I cannot believe that UK is as plastic as Dubai.

P.S. I have no doubt that your mates for shooting party are very delighted speaking to you if you don't discuss religion.

point taken. Not so sure about the 'quite sad' bit - London would be a bit drab without all the newcomers.

In fact, one could argue that it would be a bit like Wales if the Anglo-Saxons, Romans, Vikings, Normans etc hadn't come and settled in old blighty!

Cheers,
Shafique

It's true that many British citizens would like to see the death penalty re-introduced. After the 7/7 martyrdom raids, I can't really blame them either.....

Before and after the 7/7 bombings actually - but then again, why let facts get in the way of a good set of beliefs?

Europe is still awaiting saudi to allow one single christian building to be built, after we have been so accomodating to muslims.

Sadly dont see any muslims trying to end this hypocrisy, only moaning they cant build 'more' mosques.

Those nice Swiss have beaten thoes dumb back side cockney bastards to it and Swiss voters ban minarets.
Switzerland's biggest city Zurich, has allowed the use of a controversial poster on the building of minarets in the country.

The poster shows a woman dressed in a burka in front of black minarets standing on a Swiss flag.

The Swiss said campaign posters were protected by ----- free speech.

Roadtester wrote:Europe is still awaiting saudi to allow one single christian building to be built, after we have been so accomodating to muslims.

Sadly dont see any muslims trying to end this hypocrisy, only moaning they cant build 'more' mosques.

Actually, there are quite a few Saudi 'dissidents' in the UK and there are indeed many Muslims who speak out against the police-state tactics of the Saudis.

I've pointed out a few times that the Holy Prophet, pbuh, didn't share the Saudi views - he once welcomed the Bishop of Najran and his delegation in Medina and insisted they use his mosque (where he is buried today) for their service.

Whilst Mecca is reserved for Muslims - there is nothing in Islam that says Churches should be banned in Muslim controlled lands - on the contrary, God says in the Quran that protecting places of worship is a duty of Muslims.

Cheers,
Shafique

yep shaf i know about the christians emmisaries being allowed to worship - and was very forward thinking for the time, and im aware of the quaran having rules to protect non-muslims.

I may have been a bit flippant, but you can see where im coming from in that european countries have been very accomodating, and islamic countries haven't. This feeds the fire of islamphobia that islam wants to 'take over'.

So shaf how we going to get a synagogue built ??

Roadtester - thanks for clarifying. I totally agree that the Muslim countries are their own worst enemy at times - when it comes to bringing shame on themselves.

It's not just in the field of religious freedom, but also the shameful regression in the field of science and technology in most Arab countries.

I often say that the Muslims are going through their 'Middle Ages' - characterised by Mullahs clinging on to power by the only way left open to them - coercion and not reason. They've lost touch with reality and now have warped logic which justifies misogyny etc. It stems from an inferiority complex, it appears to me.

As for building synagogues - I'd say you'd have to go to the Islamic Republic of Iran to see this being done in the Islamic world. In Palestine, there is a small Palestinian Jewish community of Samiritans in the West Bank - living peaceably with their other Palestinian neighbours, but most Jewish communities that lived in Arab lands are now in Israel or elsewhere. It is a shame that in the 20th century, European anti-semitism found its way to Arab lands.

That said, you'll have MEMRI and others spreading false accusations that the Palestinians want a Jew-free Palestine, when the PM categorically states otherwise. Some choose to believe the spin rather than the reality.

But, I totally agree with you that the European countries today are far more tolerant than most (if not all) Arab countries.

Cheers,
Shafique