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Here are a few videos of how wife beating/discipline is carried out in Muslim majority nations.

I thought this thread would help dispel some of the myths circulating around this forum lately of how Muslims actually beat their wives.

It's interesting to note the restrictions placed on wife beating that these Muslim scholars emphasize - no direct fist-to-face contact, beatings *only* if the wife is disobedient, etc.



The first video talks of wife beating as a direct command from God that Muslims should not deny exists.

Indeed, the scholar says that nations that do not allow wife beating are living in ignorance (jahiliya?).

The speaker then goes on to name three types of women 'whom life is impossible without beatings':

Woman number one, is a woman who was so accustomed to beatings given to her by her parents, that she can only get along with her husband later on if her husband beats her too.

Woman number two, she is the condescending type. She patronizes her husband and, worse, she ignores him when he issues commands to her to mop up the floor or have dinner ready by the time hubby gets home from work. Allah inserted the passage for husbands to beat their wives especially for this type of woman.

Woman number three, however, is worse than the two previous types of woman mentioned. She not only is condescending and ignores her husband's commands, but she will not obey her husband even when her husband has given her a direct order. Unfortunately, the only way for this type of woman to listen and obey her husband is if her husband 'oppresses, beats and uses force on her'.

Video number two is from a Syrian sheik that was also broadcast on television for millions of Arabic speaking Muslims to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJkmRBEO ... re=related

The video starts off explaining the qualities that women look for in a man - he is rough, strong, masculine. Women look for protection from a man to defend her. Ironically, the physical qualities the sheik lists in a man to protect his wife will also be the ones the husband will use to administer discipline to his wife when she is disobedient.

Admittedly, the sheik does say the beatings only come after a long waiting period and after the husband has sent his wife to her room (sounds like a child?). Don't worry about the needs of hubby, though. He has three other wives to keep him occupied in the meantime until the first wife becomes obedient to her husband again.

However, some wives are particularly obstinate women (refer to the first video). Sometimes hubbies must drop the kids gloves and deliver a few smacks to their wives - you know, to set things 'straight' with her.

The sheik explains that disobedience is disregard for the truth. Wives will often endanger the reputation of her family, as is seen many times in the West where wife beating is not allowed or socially acceptable. In these cases, to save the honor of himself and his family, the husband needs to take preventative steps to ensure that his wife does not dishonor herself and her husband.

Hopefully these videos will help dispel the myths that have spread amongst non-Muslims on how wives are supposedly beaten in Muslim countries. In reality, women are disciplined, just as children are, *only* when she steps out of line and is disobedient.

I imagine most Muslim husbands do not relish delivering a blow to their wife. Physically reprimanding women should only take place as a last step or if the child, I mean, wife steps way out of line.

It is for these reasons that wife beating is allowed in Islam and husbands were given the green light to discipline their disobedient wives in the Koran - which is a set of revelations for all peoples for all times.

I would imagine that many of society's ills in the West would be curbed if laws were enacted to allow husbands to physically discipline their wives just as women in Muslim countries can be physically disciplined.

To paraphrase a common saying, a slap a day will keep shaitan at bay.

There will be more videos coming to further explain wife beating in Islam.

I see... when the going gets tough, the turtle gets going....

As with all eh postings, one needs to check whether he's actually read what he's posted.

So, eh - is it worth us actually reading what you've posted above? Or is it another cut and paste jobby that you haven't read?

And how is this different from the discussion where you posted a video from Memri which despite the editing showed one lawyer giving his opinion and being challenged by women on his views?
(Let us know whether you're linking to MEMRI videos again - if you are, then there is no need to discuss - as MEMRI's agenda is clearly aligned with your pre-conceived Orientalist views). I guess you would learn about Catholicism by asking Rev Ian Paisley what he thinks (he believes the pope is the anti-christ!)

Cheers,
Shafique

Was there any outcry by muslims when this was broadcast?

The Muslim sheik in this video discusses how wife beating can be therapeutic for the husband. Indeed, repeated swings are said to be a great cardiovascular workout.

Admittedly, the sheik says wife beating should be a last resort - husbands are to ground their wives to their bedrooms if she talks back or doesn't wash the dishes *before* the husband can start pummeling away on the wife.

The sheik explains that the beatings themselves have certain restrictions and he explains two of these restrictions. According to some scholars, a husband can use his fists on his disobedient wife, whereas other scholars have said to use use rods on a wife, but to not use these rods on a disobedient wife any more than ten times in one beating.

However, it should be noted that the Koran does not place any such restrictions on wife beating. Allah provided men with intelligence and a husband can decide if wife # 1, 2, 3 or 4 should be punched or if some other form of physical discipline should be used instead.

Ultimately, because the Koran is a complete book, it is up to the husband to decide how he should discipline his wife. This is similar to what many parents complain about in regards to physically disciplining their children. A parent, just like a loving husband, should be the one to decide how their child (or wife) should be physically disciplined, not a government bureaucrat.

shafique wrote:As with all eh postings, one needs to check whether he's actually read what he's posted.

So, eh - is it worth us actually reading what you've posted above? Or is it another cut and paste jobby that you haven't read?

And how is this different from the discussion where you posted a video from Memri which despite the editing showed one lawyer giving his opinion and being challenged by women on his views?
(Let us know whether you're linking to MEMRI videos again - if you are, then there is no need to discuss - as MEMRI's agenda is clearly aligned with your pre-conceived Orientalist views). I guess you would learn about Catholicism by asking Rev Ian Paisley what he thinks (he believes the pope is the anti-christ!)

Cheers,
Shafique

You must have a poor recollection of the video. One of women on the panel said that even light beatings are a form of psychological abuse. And I'm pretty sure that the other lady agreed with her statement.

Of course, you can always contact either woman and ask them to confirm if they believe that a husband should ever physically discipline his wife.

Here's the video again:



The beginning of the video has the lawyer discussing wife beating and he uses the same talking points that shafique has used on this thread and other threads - wife beating is not a rule, it is discipline, yadda, yadda, yadda.

One of the female panelists responds @ 1:30 explaining her views that the Koran is wrong when Allah says that men are of better judgment than women - the lawyer responds at 1:50 that Allah claims this.

At 2:00 a second female panelist discusses a study she had done in seven different regions of the Arab world - Cairo, Palestine, Kuwait, etc. The results from the study showed that men who never knew each other all had one thing in common - they beat their wives with an electrical cable (which has the same diameter as a straw - see the video as my last post), which the woman termed this phenomenon as 'the culture of the electricity cable.'

The lawyer at 2:32 then replies that the beatings should only be light and, therefore, acceptable. One of the women on the panel, the first to speak in the video clip, quickly interjects to the use of 'light beatings'

At 3:00, the female panelist says that light beatings are both physically and mentally abusive.

Her exacts words are (at 3:07): "what kind of idea is this 'light beating'."

I couldn't find any evidence from that video to support your belief that any of the women in that panel supported any form of wife beating.

Perhaps this is the reason why you claim the videos were heavily edited? In any event, please explain why you believe that the women subscribe to the lawyer's claim (and the lawyer went at pains to explain when beatings should occur and how severe they should be) that wife beatings and female obedience are a divine command that should be followed?

I did recall correctly that it was a MEMRI video - translated and edited by them.

Do you think they don't have an Islamophobic agenda? Do they not have a track record of misleading people with false translations and misleading editing?

The video in question did feature a male lawyer giving his opinion - and women disagreeing with him. The video showed other men on the panel, but did not show any of them speaking. Funny that. Perhaps what they said didn't suit MEMRI's agenda.

Cheers,
Shafique

Perhaps this is the reason why you claim the videos were heavily edited? In any event, please explain why you believe that the women subscribe to the lawyer's claim (and the lawyer went at pains to explain when beatings should occur and how severe they should be) that wife beatings and female obedience are a divine command that should be followed?

^^^

Do you believe MEMRI gives you the whole truth?

Why should we trust this lawyer to tell the truth - do you believe everything lawyers say?

Cheers,
Shafique

I'm glad we both agree that the lady panelists did not side with the lawyer that wives should ever be beaten if they are 'disobedient' - even if they are 'lightly beaten'.

More videos coming soon.

Yes that’s right, God says that if you have caring, honest, loving, compassionate, pious and intelligent wife you shouldn’t even think about hurting her,not even verbally…

And if your wife is disobedient to you becouse she is much smarter(toughtful) and shows real decency according to islam then you should love and respect her even more..and give prays to God that he had written your destiny with such a beautiful wife..

Okay you must have learned it by now..

Come on move onto another area where we can teach you islam further...

shafique wrote:Do you believe MEMRI gives you the whole truth?

Are you avoiding this question?

shafique wrote:

shafique wrote:Do you believe MEMRI gives you the whole truth?

Are you avoiding this question?

Avoiding which question - that the lady panelists were furious over the idea that it is ever acceptable to beat a disobedient wife?

No, I think we established that women do not support the stone age concepts of wife beating, let alone that a good Muslim woman is one who submits to her husband and the husband can discipline his wife by grounding her and beating her like she's a child.

So you are avoiding the question about MEMRI (who edited and translated the video you are presenting as evidence).

That speaks volumes.

Cheers,
Shafique

EH, you don't half post some garbage! And what about 'disobedient' husbands? Can the get a beating too?

Violence against anyone for any reason is unnaccpetable in todays society. Please stop bringing up these stone age, archaic ways of thinking.

This video starts off explaining that wife beating is the third option a husband has with dealing with a disobedient wife.

The other two are mentioned in the Koran, which says:

Koran 4:34 - . And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them.

A husband may also talk to his wife/wives or 'ground' his wife/wives by 'banish[ing]' her/them to her/their room.

Most Muslim scholars indicate that this verse should be followed by first talking to the wife, then grounding her, and then, if she persists in disobedience, to beat her.

The scholar in the video discusses how hubby is to beat his wife and he lays some ground rules.

Rule number one of wife beating:

Light beatings. I mean, what sense is it to beat your wife into a coma when she still has to wash the dishes? The counter top isn't going to wash itself' ya know.

Rule number two of wife beating:

No direct blows to the face. The sheik goes at lengths at stressing this rule. He mentions that not even animals can be hit in the face in Islam.

Rule number three of wife beating:

Leave no marks. Use a telephone book.

Following these rules and you and your first cousin/wife will be on a sure path to a stable and healthy marriage.

*More videos coming soon*





'

Chocoholic wrote:EH, you don't half post some garbage!

Quote of the day, I'd say!

Chocoholic wrote:EH, you don't half post some garbage! And what about 'disobedient' husbands? Can the get a beating too?

Violence against anyone for any reason is unnaccpetable in todays society. Please stop bringing up these stone age, archaic ways of thinking.

Quote of the day, I'd say.

Yes, I agree with her.

Interesting you think she was complimenting you - especially as you refuse to condemn terrorists who are white or Jewish (like Baruch Goldstein), or refuse to condemn the killings carried out by Israeli soldiers!


Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Yes, I agree with her.

Interesting you think she was complimenting you - especially as you refuse to condemn terrorists who are white or Jewish (like Baruch Goldstein), or refuse to condemn the killings carried out by Israeli soldiers!


Cheers,
Shafique

Cool - then all three of us agree that the Koran contains primitive, 'archaic ways of thinking'.



The speaker in this video, the Mufti of Egypt, Ali Gum'a, discusses how many women are not 'averse' to the beatings they receive at the hands of their husbands (or electrical cords).

The Mufti further explains that these types of women desire beatings - because they bring her under control, which 'she desires'. Indeed, there is some wisdom behind what the Mufti has said.

The Koran teaches that a good Muslim wife is one who submits herself to her husband. Logically speaking, if beatings can bring Muslim women under control, then many devout Muslim women would want more beatings.

The Mufti then explains that in other cultures - the West, specifically Canada, wife beating is frowned upon. He says that Muslims should not beat their wives where they can get in legal trouble for doing so (personally, I think that as long as no bruises are left, then that is enough for Muslim husbands to skirt the law).

Lastly, the Mufti discusses that Allah revealed this verse - for husbands to beat their disobedient wives, as one of the ways to preserve the family.

The Mufti's comments reflect a previous video where a sheik explained that women may ruin the honor of the family if she is not disciplined by her husband. It would seem, therefore, that wife beatings are necessary for keeping women in line, otherwise there would be a breakdown of the family unit and women would go around dishonoring their husbands by riding on motorcycles or not veiling up.

I agree, if you believe MEMRI's accounts, then you will conclude that Islam teaches primitive and barbaric practices.

I've asked you a few times now whether you believe MEMRI's accounts to be accurate - your videos seem to be exclusively from them.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:I agree, if you believe MEMRI's accounts, then you will conclude that Islam teaches primitive and barbaric practices.

I've asked you a few times now whether you believe MEMRI's accounts to be accurate - your videos seem to be exclusively from them.

Cheers,
Shafique

They don't look edited to me. Perhaps you believe the speakers weren't quoted accurately?

event horizon wrote:

shafique wrote:I agree, if you believe MEMRI's accounts, then you will conclude that Islam teaches primitive and barbaric practices.

I've asked you a few times now whether you believe MEMRI's accounts to be accurate - your videos seem to be exclusively from them.

Cheers,
Shafique

They don't look edited to me. Perhaps you believe the speakers weren't quoted accurately?

So you DO believe the video was accurate? Hmm - do you believe the other two men on the panel didn't speak at all during the programme - or that MEMRI just chose not to show what they said??

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:So you are avoiding the question about MEMRI (who edited and translated the video you are presenting as evidence).

That speaks volumes.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shafique, you seem like a smart guy...but your ignorance is showing volume now mate!

Beatings, not even mentioning your own wife, are from the stone age. 7th Century practices.
Hitting a woman, let alone your 'loving' wife...is preposterous. Totally out of wack with modern societies.

Get real mate and drop the total ignorance and denial.

Support the ladies for obtaining equal rights!

The sheik discusses that when beating your wife, it's important to keep in mind that the husband is not in a 'boxing match or karate tournament' with her.

Indeed, since women are typically smaller in size and have a lower percentage of total muscle mass than men, this would seem obvious to most rational individuals.

The sheik reminds husbands that the beatings must not cause broken bones, bleeding and cuts. This is good advice that I would also support, not only in regards to disciplining one's wife, but also one's children. Thankfully in the West, beating your children to the point that you fracture their bones is generally frowned upon.

But, once again, it's a good reminder for Muslim husbands in Muslim societies that they can't beat their wives to the point where she needs to be hospitalized. Personally, I think if you don't beat your children that hard, then it's just common sense not to smack your wife around that hard. But, as I said, I thank the sheik for reminding husbands that there are limits to their abuse (and I think it speaks volumes that these 'rules' need to be pointed out....).

As explained, the sheik says that beatings are to be administered lightly. Beating women is not to cause her deep physical trauma, but to remind her of 'the extent of the anger or sorrow' she has caused her husband.

It's kind of like the old saying of the parent who beats his child by saying 'this hurts me more than it hurts you!'. To me, this says behind every wife with a black eye, there is a husband who is the real victim.

The sheik moves on to discussing that since wife beating appears in the Koran, any criticism of wife beating is dangerously close to defying what is written in the Koran. Similarly, when European powers made slavery illegal and restricted polygamy - which was rampant at the time - many Arabs in the Ottoman empire were up in arms over foreigners prohibiting what is allowed in Islam.

We are reminded by the sheik that beatings are not limited to just wives. The prophet Muhammad advised parents to beat their sons until the age of ten if they did not pray. I would also assume that wives, who have child-like minds, can be beaten for not praying after the age of ten as well.

Beatings are 'indispensable' tools for a husband to deal with a disobedient wife. We are reminded once more that since the Koran comes from Allah, everything in it - including wife beating, is to be allowed.

Edit: Here is the hadith calling for children to pray after seven and for parents to beat their children if they do not pray until the age of ten -

"Order your children to pray at the age of seven and beat them (if they neglect it) at the age of ten." This narration was reported by Ibn Daawood from 'Abdullaah Ibn Umar

http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/fatwa/Show ... on=FatwaId

It should also be said that child beatings, just like wife beatings, should *not* result in broken bones. This is to teach children (by being beaten), 'not to avenge'.

RobbyG wrote:

shafique wrote:So you are avoiding the question about MEMRI (who edited and translated the video you are presenting as evidence).

That speaks volumes.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shafique, you seem like a smart guy...but your ignorance is showing volume now mate!

Ignorance about what in particular?

That the MEMRI video in question was edited suspciciously, or that it showed women disagreeing with the one lawyer's views?

I supported the woman's views about Islam's teachings - perhaps you missed that tit-bit of information?

RobbyG wrote:Beatings, not even mentioning your own wife, are from the stone age. 7th Century practices.
Hitting a woman, let alone your 'loving' wife...is preposterous. Totally out of wack with modern societies.

I agree. 100%.

Islam outlawed beating of wives (it also outlawed the stone-age practices of burying infant girls alive, not giving women the right to divorce, allowing them to inherit etc - all in the 7th century).

You may have therefore missed the gist of our difference - Muslims are saying that eh-oh is wrong to interpret the Quran as allowing wife beating. There are numerous threads on the subject - so if you are interested, just do a search on 'Islam' 'Women' and then you'll get the Muslim view. In the same threads you'll see the selective quotes that Islamophobes like to use - anything from eh-oh on the subject qualifies. Compare and contrast.

I made the point above - the videos being posted by eh-oh are all from MEMRI - again, if you are interested, you can look them up and find out how they have a track record of mis-translating things, misrepresenting information and general disinformation about Islam/Arabs.

RobbyG wrote:Get real mate and drop the total ignorance and denial.

Support the ladies for obtaining equal rights!

Sure thing - thanks for the reminder.

However, please don't do a 'eh-oh' and believe the headlines - at least find out what the guy your accusing is actually writing!

Cheers,
Shafique

I owe you an apology mate.

I totally misread your main point. Keep it up.

No probs mate - happy to clarify.

(It shows the old adage about not wrestling with pigs - you both get covered in the proverbial and no one can tell the difference! But I seem to be addicted to troll baiting! )

Cheers,
Shafique

slam outlawed beating of wives

Islam 'outlawed' wife beating by allowing husbands to beat their wives.

Yup, that's the truth.

Muslims are saying that eh-oh is wrong to interpret the Quran as allowing wife beating.

Which Muslims are you referring to? The ones in the videos I've posted?