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Given the recent references to Christian terrorists, a bump so that we don't forget this question about a Jewish terrorist.

There are some people who venerate the actions of Baruch Goldstein - the American Doctor who emigrated to occupied Palestine (Hebron) and joined the Israeli army. As an officer in the army (a reservist), he carried out a massacre of Muslim worshippers at a holy site on a Jewish holy day of Purim - and carried it out in uniform and using Israeli army weapons.

His supporters continue to view him as a saint.


I've just asked whether eh joins me in condemning Goldstein as a religously motivated terrorist and confirm that he is not one of those who celebrate Goldstein's actions - which were based on his Biblical interpretations. Thus far we've had silence (I'm discounting the attempts at humour where eh said Goldstein was influenced by the Quran)

But let's see, perhaps now we'll get an acknowledgement he was a religiously motivated terrorist and that we should condemn him and his supporters for using the Bible to justify the killings of Muslims.

Cheers,
Shafique

bump for eh - given the flurry of posts yesterday, he may have missed this.

I wonder who has more supporters - Baruch Goldstein or Osama bin Laden???

Do you support Osama bin Laden as well as Goldstein?

I don't believe Osama bin Laden needs any more supporters - he already has hundreds of millions of fans.

So is it only Jewish Terrorists that you refuse to condemn?

Cheers,
Shafique

A reminder for eh that we await his clarification on why he refused to condemn Goldstein as a religiously motivated terrorist.

Cheers,
Shafique

I'm hopeful that eh will finally come out one of these days and tell us why he chooses to not condemn Goldstein as a religious terrorist who killed innocents because of his interpretation of the Bible.

Perhaps he'll clarify whether he is one of those who venerates Goldstein's actions in occupied Palestine (Hebron).

Cheers,
Shafique

I agree you believe he (Baruch Goldstein) was a religiously motivated terrorist.

It is unfortunate that there are those who are actually motivated by religion to wage warfare against unbelievers and believe that they will attain paradise if they kill unbelievers and die in the process. Such as Khalid bin Waleed, a companion of prophet Muhammad who was nicknamed 'the sword of Allah' by the prophet himself and who massacred thousands of POWs by beheading as a fulfillment he made to Allah if he won a battle or Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who was motivated by the commands in the Koran and examples in the prophetic sunnah to behead his victims - which is something he later acknowledged to justify his actions.

Thanks, I've made clear what I base my belief on - the web sites of the supporters of Baruch Goldstein and all the news reports of the time which detail that the religious American Doctor and Israeli citizen committed his actions in the name of Judaism.

I see that you continue to refuse to condemn him as a religious terrorist.

Can you perhaps just confirm whether you are one of those who venerate his actions?

Cheers,
Shafique

It's unfortunate that there are many terrorist attacks carried out in the middle east.

It is fascinating to see your continual to refuse to condemn this white Jewish terrorist who killed in the name of religion.

You even now refuse to confirm whether you are one of those who celebrate his actions.

(They also argue that it is 'unfortunate' he had to kill the muslim worshippers - as they should leave occupied Palestine).

Cheers,
Shafique

It's unfortunate that people in the Middle East have suffered so much from Middle Eastern terrorists/religious warriors.

So you continue to refuse to condemn a white American Jewish terrorist who killed in the name of the Bible.

Is it because you think only Muslims or Arabs can be terrorists, or are you just one who celebrates when Muslims are killed by people who believe in Goldstein's view of the Bible?

Cheers,
Shafique

Have no problem condemning terrorists who carry out acts of violence because of the perpetual commands to do so in their holy scriptures.

Why do you find it so hard to denounce Goldstein as a Western religious terrorist who killed because of his Biblical beliefs?

(That was rhetorical - we know the reason you side with those who venerate him and similarly refuse to denounce him)

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon wrote:False analogies can be fun, but Moses is not considered an exemplar for all humanity, Muhammad is.

Anyway, still waiting for you to tell me if destroying crops to force civilians to surrender is collective punishment.

I have stopped answering people about Islam when I feel they are just people who have nothing to do and in fact seem to have issues with their own beliefs. It is pretty lame discussing some else's faith when you have no idea who you are. However, I do wish to comment on your above comment. "Moses is not considered an exemplar for all humanity". Where exactly did u get this from? What is the difference between being an exemplar for the so called "chosen nation" and being an exemplar for all humanity.

If you are Jewish then he is the founder of your faith and the teacher of your life's belief. If you are Christian then he is the bringer of your first testament and the man whose life is painfully detailed in holy scripture. Muslims view him as a messenger of God and therefore an exemplary figure. So if he is not considered an exemplar for humanity then who is? You? Or my neighbor the cross-eyed camel-p<3n producer?

You make some good points.

I had to start this thread when eh refused to condemn Goldstein as a religious terrorist who based his actions on the Bible - and yet insisted that Muslim terrorists are basing their actions on his misinterpretations of the Quran.

What most grown up debaters realise is that all scripture has been misused to justify acts not condoned by the founders of their religions - with Goldstein being just one example.

The grown ups don't hesitate in recognising this fact and condemn Goldstein as just another example of religious terrorists.

What is fascinating is why eh refuses to condemn this white guy who killed Muslims and based his actions on the Bible.

Cheers,
Shafique

I have no problem condemning middle eastern terrorists who actually kill unbelievers based on the texts and teachings of their religion.

Khalid ibn Walid, a war criminal who executed thousands of POWs by beheading, is one example of a terrorist that I am more than happy to condemn (and a Muslim that others have chosen to apologize for).

I understand you don't have problems condemning bombings carried out by Middle Easterners - it appears only the killings carried out by White Jewish people that you can't condemn.

Any other traits you'd like to share with us?

Anyway, what Goldstein shows is that the Bible can be used to justify the killings of innocents and that these acts are celebrated and venerated by some (it appears that you are among these people who refuse to condemn him).

Therefore we can conclude that the Bible is used by people like you to celebrate the killings of innocent worshippers, but that it would be stupid of people to condemn the whole of Judaism or Christianity because of the actions of Goldstein and his supporters and those like you who refuse to condemn him.

It is as stupid as those who think the Quran condones the killings of all Jews and Christians.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon wrote:I have no problem condemning middle eastern terrorists who actually kill unbelievers based on the texts and teachings of their religion.

Khalid ibn Walid, a war criminal who executed thousands of POWs by beheading, is one example of a terrorist that I am more than happy to condemn (and a Muslim that others have chosen to apologize for).

I really want to understand something. As far as I know Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc etc are not some modern cults with 2000 followers. They are thousands of years old and have millions if not billions of followers. Now, since you; forgive me but; an absolute unknown in human history have made it your personal mission to post absolutely everything on this forum that you can think of to undermine one of these religions, do you believe that you are cleverer than all those "fools" that follow such religions. These religions have had followers that went on to do great things to advance human history. Who are you to state that they are all following a regime of 1- murderers or 2- morons. You don't seem to acknowledge that out of the thousands of faiths that emerged, these few survived and gathered such huge followings because there were and are strong elements of truth in them. How can that not make you a little apprehensive about the way you are constantly attacking them?

I really hope that I can one day comprehend this line of thinking. To openly and incessantly condemn such an obvious aspect of a faith you must be so convinced of your opinion that you do not see in that belief anything worthwhile. So are you collectively smarter than those billions? If you are, you might want to work on your posts because they are really masking your apparently almost god-like IQ level.

bump for eh - who now says that Israel does commit war crimes and that the crimes they commit resemble those committed by Biblical prophets like Moses (who is reported to have slaughtered women, babies and animals of towns captured by the Israelites).


Cheers,
Shafique

I'm happy to condemn Muhammad's war crimes and any imagined war crimes you believe Israel has committed.

I'm clear that you condemn war crimes when committed by Muslims (even imagined ones). This thread was about whether you are just Islamophobic or whether you are humanist when it comes to condemning acts of terrorism.

I'm just emphasising that you refuse to condemn this white American/Jewish terrorist who killed in the name of the Bible.

Cheers,
Shafique

Today eh-oh says he's happy to condemn Israeli war crimes.

So, it appears only Jewish Terrorists who are white and use the Bible to justify their killings are not condemned by eh-oh.

Oh dear.

Cheers,
Shafique

Another one of those threads which eh probably now has time to reply to, perhaps?

I have no problem condemning middle eastern terrorists.

Sigh.

Why don't you also condemn the white American Jewish terrorist holding Israeli passports then?

Cheers,
Shafique

A bump for the new year. Perhaps eh has a new year resolution to answer outstanding questions?

shafique wrote:A bump for the new year. Perhaps eh has a new year resolution to answer outstanding questions?

I have no problem condemning Middle Eastern terrorists who massacred (by beheading) unarmed villagers.

Won't you also join me in condemning these terrorists?