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I know that latterly some Rabbis have said these passages should be ingnored (a recurring theme with the Bible, it seems) - but you asked what teachings the Quran corrected. I see you don't like admitting when your questions are answered!

So you've studied (read) the Talmud now? Interesting.

Still ignoring the inconvenient facts about the comparative teachings I see.

No surprises there then.

All I did was ask you whether you agreed that the Quranic teachings in relation to not killing those who studied scripture was an improvement - you seem reluctant to concede this point. Pretty much just like your inability to condemn Jewish Terrorists who kill in the name of the Bible.... speaks volumes!

Cheers,
Shafique

All I did was ask you whether you agreed that the Quranic teachings in relation to not killing those who studied scripture was an improvement

Once again, it would be difficult to believe the Talmud actually teaches this (as opposed to taking the teachings of the Talmud out of context) when I can easily point out that Rabbinic Judaism has more or less abolished the death penalty.

So, have you actually read (studied) the Talmud or are you pontificating on its teachings based off of one line you read on some website?

It was a simple question - a comparison of the Quranic injuctions on religious freedom with the entries in the Talmud which say non-Jews should be killed if they study the Torah.

Arguing that later Jewish scholars dis-owned these instructions merely shows that they came round to the Quran's way of reasoning.

But then again, I fully understand why eh would rather not compare the Quranic instructions with instructions in the Bible and Talmud, but rather compare them against interpretations and edited opinions of later scholars (who rightly say we should disregard many instructions in the Bible - as well as this Talmudic injunction to kill non-Jews for reading scripture).

I note that there is no dispute that the Bible contains the violent verses posted earlier, nor the violent instructions in the Talmud. I'm not arguing that Christians follow these - on the contrary I've applauded the fact that these are now effectively recognised as man-made fabrications, or at least as injunctions that should not be followed.

Cheers,
Shafique

Arguing that later Jewish scholars dis-owned these instructions merely shows that they came round to the Quran's way of reasoning.

"A Sanhedrin that puts one person to death once in seven years is called destructive. Rabbi Eliezer ben Azariah says: Or even once in seventy years. Rabbi Tarfon and Rabbi Akiba say: Had we been the Sanhedrin, none would ever have been put to death." Mishnah Makkot, 1:10 (2nd Century, C.E.)

Sure, if the Koran was revealed at around the time of Jesus. Oh, let me guess, you're pontificating once more on a topic you have no basic understanding or knowledge of.

Please, share some more pearls of wisdom, oh wise one.

(Oh, and I still have not seen your answer to my question, have you read the Talmud?)

So Rabbi Eliezer disowns what is in Sanhendrin - I applaud that, and you are right, there were some enlightened Rabbis before the rise of Islam. Thanks for the reminder.

It does not change the fact that it is written in the San. verse quoted that non-Jews should be killed for reading the Torah.

And it also does not change the fact that to this day some Jews disagree with Rabbi Eliezer and venerate the actions of Jewish Terrorists such as Baruch Goldstein - who killed because of his interpretation of Judaic law.

Given your refusal to condemn Goldstein as a Jewish terrorist - one could assume you also disagree with Rabbi Eliezer's opinion that the Sanhedrin verses are wrong?

Cheers,
Shafique

So Rabbi Eliezer disowns what is in Sanhendrin

You've never studied up on the Sanhedrin, it's obvious.

It does not change the fact that it is written in the San. verse quoted that non-Jews should be killed for reading the Torah.

The what verses? (The passage was taken from the Mishnah, not the Sanhedrin - the Sanhedrin was simply a court of law, lol)

who killed because of his interpretation of Judaic law.

That's doubtful.

Given your refusal to condemn Goldstein as a Jewish terrorist - one could assume you also disagree with Rabbi Eliezer's opinion that the Sanhedrin verses are wrong?

Oh dear, I really should not have confused you and brought up the Sanhedrin.

I guess that answers my question if you've read the Talmud.

Indeed - I haven't read the Talmud, only the Bible proper and the quote given above which states that non-Jews should be killed for studying scripture.

I've noted that you don't dispute this is an accurate quote, only that it is also a teaching that some Jews believe shouldn't be followed.

Fair enough.

As I've said, Goldstein killed in the name of religion and you refuse to condemn him for this - therefore it is reasonable to assume you don't agree with the Rabbi you quoted who says killing is wrong.

And we keep coming back to the fact that the Quran and Bible's teachings have been presented on warfare, and the Bible is much more violent!

Cheers,
Shafique

Indeed - I haven't read the Talmud

'nuff said.

Indeed - 'nuff said about the Talmud. An undisputed quote that non-Jews should be killed if they read the Torah is sufficient for this thread.

So, can we get back to the main issue of the Quran's superior teachings on warfare etc when compared with the Bible?


Cheers,
Shafique

Well, I'm not sure general commands in the Koran to wage warfare against unbelievers until the world is under the domain of Islam is a superior teaching (if you're a non-Muslim or reject offensive jihad warfare).

But I see that you're still pontificating on a text you've never read a page of.

As I said, 'nuf said.

There are clearly quite a number of topics that you are, indeed, 'not sure of'. We'll just chalk up the inability to compare the various teachings of the Bible on warfare with those of the Quran as one of these.

Indeed, 'nuff said.

Cheers,
Shafique

It seems that you're more interested in reading your own posts than actually possessing any type of knowledge on a particular subject. But hey, perhaps I'm wrong and you're actually well versed on the Talmud (since you seem to draw conclusions on its teachings) even though you have already acknowledged you have not read one page from its texts. Once again, thanks for the laughs.

You are quite welcome.

As I said, the intial posts comparing the Biblical with Quranic injunctions are there for all to read and digest (albeit they are lengthy).

I'm sure it hasn't escaped everyone's notice that you are trying to change the subject... but hey, I foresaw that!

Cheers,
Shafique