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Yaa I totally agree with Gertrude, even Herve is making merry and writing a bestseller while he's at it. Everyone knows where he is, why is he not arrested?

Hey Chocs haven't you heard of college students in the US accumulating huge credi card debts and then doing a runner? No one goes after them....

Here's what happens, should you default on ur debt in North America and Europe, then the first one's to catch up with you would be credit rating agencies, do a runner and they'll instantly give you a bad rating.

Now if ur in The States and to evade paying off ur debts you do a runner, collection agencies then track you down in Europe(lets say Paris), in such a situation the US law has something called Long Arm Statute, where basically the US embassy will fight the case on behalf of the collection agency and try and retrieve the debt. So the short answer is Yes you can be pursued, but the reality is that it depends on which country ur in.Some countries may allow a U.S. court to obtain jurisdiction through their court system. Now at this point… I’m thinking you must have owed this creditor a truck load of money because the price tag for your harassment is getting expensive! Does this mean if your new country cooperates with the U.S. court you may be arrested until court is held? Maybe,but the best solution would be to select a country which is favorable to debtors. European and North American countries are favorable to creditors…. not debtors.

Does Dubai have such reach? I don't think so. C'mon there is'nt even a credit rating agency here.
I mean countries like UK, USA, EU, India etc these countries have their own laws, and you simply can't walk in to these countries and arrest someone for debt piled up somewhere else, when in those countries itself unpaid loans is only a civil suit and not a criminal offense.

But I will agree with Chocs on one thing it's best to just pay off the debts via electronic transfer or something, just pay it off! Cos it could someday come back to haunt you.
I hear in the GCC there are plans for a common extradition treaty, so before long for this DJ the GCC will be out of bounds. And from there who know what next. Best option just pay off ur debts, period.

WHAT Interpol can't arrest me ????? Say it ain't so.

I applied to join on the basis of their cool yellow uniforms, yellow Nike running shoes (for catching the bad bad bad guys) and those OH Soooo cute berets. Imagine just going to any country you want and arresting all the naughty people and flying away (first class of course) !

"Ah ha, 'tis you Mr. Badman. You short changed Abdul in the coffee shop in Jumeriah 18 years ago. A irrest yo un ze nam of d' leiu" (Its how they say it, you see they are all from Lyon in France).

Is this what you think Interpol does ? Sorry poppet - you are wrong, incorrect, misinformed and out of your depth. If I had the time money and motivation, I would buy an island, declare independance, gain recognition by the UN and join interpol (well my mum would cos she's chief of police) and take everyone that ever ripped me of to court and have the Judge (my dad) find them guilty then post their ugly mugs up on the Interpol list. (see if you can guess who would feature large !)

I have to say I totally agree with Gertrude and Capsicum for once spot on, although the current figures for the UAE stands at 200 red notices issued - apparently one was for US$ 44 some Indian dude "allegedly" defrauded from a local lady.

Don't notice too many of the local developers making headlines on there though !

Interpol is a self serving bureaucracy with no actual power or jurisdiction to arrest anyone, they are "represented" on the ground by the local plod, who as arnie correctly pointed out, will only act if the alleged crime is actually a criminal act on their own patch, and last time I looked, running up a credit card was more a national sport (hopefully in the Olympics 2020 Dubai yeeeah) than a criminal offence.

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Be prepared, dib dib dub dub

Hey MCL

You seem well versed in the US and debt management - lend me $6.5bn, I'll pay you back, honest, here's some bond papers I printed at home on my HP Bubble Jet

True MCL! Dubai has issued a red notice against me with Interpol, I am wanted. Brrrrrrrr! Does it make any difference? NO. Because I could challenge it in a US Court, and extradition is a long process where the defendant has rights, unlike in Dubai. Anyways, I sued Dubai World, in Florida, for fraud, defamation, abuse of process and false emprisonment, and everybody knows where I am, I am not hiding.
In reaction of my lawsuit, and only then, Dubai World sued me here, was not the other way around, and I immediately countersued them adding breach of contract claim. I just dont have the media power to innondate the press like they do, but little by little my truth makes it its way.
Remember? in the court papers in Dubai, they ignored the fact that Sultan Bin Sulayem visited me twice in Florida, now he is admitting it in US court.
I welcome these court proceedings as unlike in Dubai, I will be able to challenge my accusers and the truth will come out, for the world to know.
I will also dispute, the red notice, truthfully, I cannot understand why such recognized agency as Interpol can put any legitimacy in Dubai's warrants requests and give credit to a trial in absentia, which are not even recognized in international court. I have been convicted, I was not even there, not even represented by a lawyer, and I would never have been able to challenge the accusation.
And...... next week, my book comes out, worldwide, at last! then everyone will know everything! Though I doubt Dubai Media Council will allow it at Mc Gruddy's
So Chochocholic , come down from your cloud, and leave gertrude alone, nobody will ever chase anybody outside the UAE for a credit card debt or a default car loan in dubai, and no one will have an international travel ban. so stop claiming otherwise .....Look at me , Dubai is painting me almost like a war criminal with a $4million fine but I am a free man, with every rights to drag these people to court and claim my innocence.

Whatever, you guys can go live in la la land. All I know is that it HAS happened to several people I know, so yes they can and do come after you, it might not be a quick thing, it could take years, but eventually it will catch up with you. So don't sit there and tell me it doesn't!

I have asked the question several times, if you say it doesn't happen then how come it IS to a few people I know! One guy fled to Ireland and now has a European, Middle East and American travel ban - right so it's all a figment of my imagination is it? Just because it hasn't happen to you or people YOU know, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Come on people think outside the box for once!

Oh and it's alright for GertRUDE to have a go at me is it? Yet I can't get my point of view across? Bunch of hypocrits!

End of.

The banks have been totally irresponsible if they gave him credit based on his freelance income. The good thing is that now they are getting a taste of their own recipe...

viking-warrior wrote: and last time I looked, running up a credit card was more a national sport (hopefully in the Olympics 2020 Dubai yeeeah) than a criminal offence.

Love IT!

Anyhoozles...not to pick on Chocs, but I think the folks here have it pretty much bang-on. Let us not forget those of us that come from "free" countries are entitled to certain civil liberties. One of which is most certainly not having a "travel ban" placed due to claims by an archaic judicial system. In fact, in Canada (and I am sure other places) a passport and free passage is a RIGHT and not a privledge(sp?). The Canadian government can only with hold a passport or deny one based on a person being accused of serious crimes (murder, violent crime, serious drug offences). Pretty sure (although no proof) in our constitution that there is no clause stating "Passports will be with held and a travel ban imposed at the request of NBD, RAK Bank or any other UAE depository". Just saying.

Oh, and speaking from personal experience...when the poop hit the fan for me, NBD sent me a text saying they would place a travel ban. Sadly, just idle threats. Only the gov't can do this AFTER you have a case against you filed by the bank. Being late on a credit card payment is not a crim offense here. Bouncing the guarantee check is. Oh, and the added bonus when they sent me the threat, the mis-spelled "Emirates Bank".See below link from March:
http://tinyurl.com/yk9yq56

Methinks another one of the great Dubai myths. I'm sure Chris is very safe in the UK. He certainly looks well fed.

"Passport Canada recognizes that the denial of passport services is a significant sanction and therefore exercises its authority to refuse issuance of a passport only where there is sufficient reliable information available to justify the action."
Link to Canadian travel ban:
http://www.ppt.gc.ca/articles/20080213a.aspx?lang=eng

Thta's all very well and good DD, but still not one of you has given me a reasonable and logical explaination as to why someone I know has received travel bans!

Chocoholic wrote:Thta's all very well and good DD, but still not one of you has given me a reasonable and logical explaination as to why someone I know has received travel bans!

Hey Chocs. Not pooping on you. But I am guessing:

1. They are lying
2. They are actually charged with another crime and not telling you
3. They "think" they have a travel ban due to threats.
4. They have been "warned" by the UK gov't and perceive that as a ban.

Did they surrender their passport? That is the only way to impose a ban from your country of residence. You can either travel, or not. Yes, select countries may ban YOU from entering, but when a ban is placed where you hold citizenship, it is a global ban to prevent people fleeing.

I've not heard it from the person themselves, but I heard it from their sponsor because he is a good friend of mine, and that is what the loan company said they were going to seek.

Chocoholic wrote:I've not heard it from the person themselves, but I heard it from their sponsor because he is a good friend of mine, and that is what the loan company said they were going to seek.

So essentially a 3-4 combo as per my previous post. I would not sweat it, seriously. If the person is out of the country, not even H.H. can do squat about it. The loan company can "seek" what they like, but at the end of the day, they are just a financial institution and have no clout in the UK or abroad. Of course I am not endorsing running or blowing it off, but if I were in their shoes, I would certainly GTFO.

I honestly don't know how people can do it! I understand if you're in real trouble, but morally it's wrong. It's a shame that people end up getting themselves in these situations in the first place.

is it morally wrong to buy a car with a loan, then lose your job, have your visa cancelled and no longer being able to pay the monthly payments?

Don't put words in my mouth! Of course not! But that's the problem, there are no coverage laws or insurance to cover such things in this country, therefore it needs to be looked at so things like this don't happen.

I agree Chocs that it needs to be sorted. I was astounded when I got here and essentially had people coming to my office to sell me credit cards, loans, you name it. As a new arrival in a country, this was crazy to me. I had borrowed my year's rent in advance via personal loan (with additional flash money), bought a 4X4 with an auto loan, and then the bank took the liberty of issuing me a credit card with the limit being 75K. I always thought it was a little crazy to have the ability to borrow a year's+ worth of salary the first week in town. This all hinged on simply getting my salary deposited in their account? Nuts.

Any other normal country has a credit bureau or runs checks, etc. The banks don't even talk to each other here. Now they are tightening up, but only to a sub-standard level. I am pretty certain I could roll into a number of banks and start collecting credit cards based on a salary certificate (worthless).

When I lost my gig, CSI informed the bank via email, yet I still have the truck, still pay off the loans (almost done thank god) and some of you here know I had a few lean months. Credit is something that needs to be earned over time. Funny how the banks dole out credit like it is going out of style, yet some people need to take 40 driving lessons and 10 tests to be able to drive a car in the UAE. How are they paying for it? Credit cards!

Chocoholic wrote:Don't put words in my mouth! Of course not! But that's the problem, there are no coverage laws or insurance to cover such things in this country, therefore it needs to be looked at so things like this don't happen.

it is not an insurance issue in this country , it s law and cultural issue. default is a crime here, there is no insurance to cover a crime, any crimes.

This very true. However, take for example the UK, the take out a car loan/mortgage/credit cards etc then every month you also pay a small insurance policy, so that if you become unemployed, the bank covers the payments for you, until you can start the repayments again.

It's shocking that a bounced cheque can land you in prison here. It's shocking that people ask for pre-dated cheques, which in itself it illegal the world over.

Chocoholic wrote:This very true. However, take for example the UK, the take out a car loan/mortgage/credit cards etc then every month you also pay a small insurance policy, so that if you become unemployed, the bank covers the payments for you, until you can start the repayments again.

that's what i said, not only in UK, but also here. take a look on your credit card bills and find out on "credit shield" (insurance). was it suppose to cover the debt? then how come it's not used?

like DD said.

at least he looks well fed

Just don't ask him for advice on when to buy and when to sell property.

Chocoholic wrote:Whatever, you guys can go live in la la land. All I know is that it HAS happened to several people I know, so yes they can and do come after you, it might not be a quick thing, it could take years, but eventually it will catch up with you. So don't sit there and tell me it doesn't!

I have asked the question several times, if you say it doesn't happen then how come it IS to a few people I know! One guy fled to Ireland and now has a European, Middle East and American travel ban - right so it's all a figment of my imagination is it? Just because it hasn't happen to you or people YOU know, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Come on people think outside the box for once!

Oh and it's alright for GertRUDE to have a go at me is it? Yet I can't get my point of view across? Bunch of hypocrits!

End of.

Chocs I don't think Interpol spends years and years tracking down people who have left DEBT behind. Possibly your friend is wanted for embezzlement or money laundering or some major crime that calls for Interpol to get involved in and he just failed to mention it to you. Interpol is not a collection agency. Leaving debt behind is NOT a crime in most countries. If it was, half the population in the US and UK would be in jail. Yes in Dubai incurring debt and skipping is a crime, but not an international crime as recognized under Interpol.

Britannica Precise Encyclopedia:

International organization whose purpose is to fight international crime. Interpol promotes the widest possible mutual assistance between the criminal police authorities of affiliated countries and seeks to establish and develop all institutions likely to contribute effectively to the prevention and suppression of ordinary crime. The organization traces its history to 1914, when a congress of international criminal police, attended by delegates from 14 countries, was held in Monaco. Interpol was formally founded in Austria in 1923 with 20 member countries; after World War II its headquarters moved to Paris and, in 1989, to Lyon, France. By the early 21st century, its membership exceeded 180 countries. Interpol pursues criminals who operate in more than one country (e.g., smugglers), those who stay in one country but whose crimes affect other countries (e.g., counterfeiters of foreign currency), and those who commit a crime in one country and flee to another.

Columbia Encyclopedia:

Interpol, acronym for the International Criminal Police Organization, a worldwide clearinghouse for police information. Conceived in 1914, Interpol was formally established in 1923 with headquarters at Vienna. In 1938, it was effectively disbanded by Hitler's Anschluss of Austria. After World War II, the agency was reconstituted (1946) with headquarters in Paris. Its principal services are to provide its 184 member nations with information on the whereabouts of international criminals, to organize seminars on scientific crime detection, and to facilitate the apprehension of criminals, although it does not apprehend criminals directly. The organization claims to avoid those crimes that deal with political, military, religious, or racial matters. Interpol has been most successful with regard to counterfeiting, forgery, smuggling, and the narcotics trade.

Intelligence Encyclopeida:

Interpol is an international organization based in Lyon, France, that fosters global police cooperation by sharing intelligence about cross-border criminal activities among its 181 member nations. Despite popular misconception, the organization maintains no police force of its own. Each member nation maintains and staffs a National Central Bureau to direct Interpol intelligence, while local authorities investigate and prosecute criminals according to national laws. Interpol's actions are limited to receiving requests for assistance; analyzing criminal activities that are not of a political, military, religious, or racial character; and disseminating notices published in four languages (English, French, Spanish, and Arabic) to its members. It currently focuses upon public safety and terrorism, organized crime, illegal drug production and smuggling, weapons dealing, trafficking in human beings, money laundering, and financial and high technology wrongdoing.

Nowhere does it say anything about going after people who incur debt and go on the run. Incurring debt is a matter for the company to handle and if things can't be worked out then it can go to court. Rarely has anyone gone to jail for non payment of debt - of course I'm talking about in being in the "real" world, not Dubai.

All those people who you know that are being "hunted down" by Interpol are telling tall tales or not telling the truth.

viking-warrior wrote:Don't notice too many of the local developers making headlines on there though !

Red notices on Interpol are for people wanted for "Check Fraud", not debts per se. Having a debt doesn't get you jailed, bouncing a check does. Credit card debtors get in trouble because the bank presents the security check, which bounces and then becomes a criminal offence.

At least one developer I know of is in jail - the Khoie Properties CEO in RAK, for a bounced cheque.

Banks can play on their customer's fears and make all the threats they like but a bank cannot travel ban anyone, arrest anyone, or jail anyone. A bank can make a complaint to the police who can arrest someone. The court can jail someone. The immigration department can refuse allow entry to someone, or detain someone when they enter or exit a country. But I doubt very much that the British immigration department (or any other immigration department - even the UAE) follows instructions from a UAE bank.

I expect immigration departments of various countries can look at the Interpol website and decide whether or not to allow entry to those people. But I doubt any Commonwealth country would refuse entry to a British citizen because they had bounced a check in the UAE for example.

xty wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:This very true. However, take for example the UK, the take out a car loan/mortgage/credit cards etc then every month you also pay a small insurance policy, so that if you become unemployed, the bank covers the payments for you, until you can start the repayments again.

that's what i said, not only in UK, but also here. take a look on your credit card bills and find out on "credit shield" (insurance). was it suppose to cover the debt? then how come it's not used?

Credit shield through Emirates NBD is insurance for death or dismemberment. Nothing to do with job loss.

dubaidog wrote:

xty wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:This very true. However, take for example the UK, the take out a car loan/mortgage/credit cards etc then every month you also pay a small insurance policy, so that if you become unemployed, the bank covers the payments for you, until you can start the repayments again.

that's what i said, not only in UK, but also here. take a look on your credit card bills and find out on "credit shield" (insurance). was it suppose to cover the debt? then how come it's not used?

Credit shield through Emirates NBD is insurance for death or dismemberment. Nothing to do with job loss.

Problem Solved then.

All those owing banks/credit cards money in DXB should therefore clear all their debts before leaving the Emirate by kiling themselves.


simples

arniegang wrote:

dubaidog wrote:

xty wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:This very true. However, take for example the UK, the take out a car loan/mortgage/credit cards etc then every month you also pay a small insurance policy, so that if you become unemployed, the bank covers the payments for you, until you can start the repayments again.

that's what i said, not only in UK, but also here. take a look on your credit card bills and find out on "credit shield" (insurance). was it suppose to cover the debt? then how come it's not used?

Credit shield through Emirates NBD is insurance for death or dismemberment. Nothing to do with job loss.

Problem Solved then.

All those owing banks/credit cards money in DXB should therefore clear all their debts before leaving the Emirate by kiling themselves.


simples

Mr Arnie, you have solved the financial crisis

The answer was there all the time mate and such a simple solution, i'm amazed no one else thought of it

So spread the word

There appears to be a barrage of misguided information on this issue, which no doubt has emanated from UAE banks themselves.

Firstly, every loan, credit card etc issued by a UAE bank MUST be secured with a security cheque, many people make the error of thinking that they did not PROVIDE a cheque, however when they sign the credit card application the issuing bank will have produced there own cheque with your name on it that you definately signed.

I built a (once) successful construction related business in Dubai. We required lending facilities from banks (which are government owned) and we did major works for government related companies (almost 70% of Dubai's economy is government related) when the government ran out of cash and stopped paying (i.e Nakheel) I couldnt pay my debts to the banks, unfortunately recourse to take government companies is very difficult yet when I couldnt pay the banks they want to put me in Jail..

So I made the hard decision to walk away - I skipped.

I would advise anyone who has lost their jobs and in a debt problem to depart Dubai as soon as possible as it will bite you.. and Im afraid that in jail you will not have the ability to pay back any debts and spiral into more problems.

1) Civilised societies recognise that their are two parties to a loan, the lender and borrower. The lender is required to ensure that the borrower is in a position to repay the loan.

2) In civilised developed societies one is as a last recourse able to declare bankruptcy to start to rebuild their lives.

Interpol has been mentioned many times on this blog and I can tell you there are TWO tests as to whether or not Interpol will accept a claim.

1) Is the filed claim an illegal activity in the country which the borrower is entering or residing now (for example ) - in the UK for example it is not illegal to borrow money and not pay it back, one would be declared bankrupt so immediately this would fail.

2) IF the said criminal or in this case borrower was found guilty in court of the country in which he is now in (in this case the UK) would he spend more than one year in prison (yes/no) - in the UK's case the answer is no.

So Interpol would not even take the claim on.

So I would suggest taht anyone who has or is considering skipping due to being made redundant or company collapsed, then do it.

When you are back at your country of residence and safe you can then contact the UAE banks (if you wish) and negotiate a satisfactory settlement.. The banks know they cannot get you so you can negotiate hard.. start at 10% of the debt value and go from there.. before paying a single Dirham, Dollar or Pound make sure you obtain a clearnace letter so that you are sure you can once again re-enter the UAE..

Lastly dont feel guilty.. as these guys would shaft you in a heartbeat!!

Best of luck

Bankrupt Millionaire