Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk

SH - Its not that I do not trust Sheikh Mo's governance, any doffing of the cap to that topic is better than none, its more fundemental than that; in the rapid move from town to city (20 years is quick) the control mechanism that held everything together from a social perspective got lost is the stampede and as can be shown in any country - you don't know what you had till you lose it (and subsequently need it again).

I can not see nor have I heard of any mechanism to replace or supplement the Diwan system (a radio show ? - just flick the switch, problem solved) and until some form of representation is implemented Dubai will remain an autocratic dictatorship.

I agree with your sentiments - I too wish that western countries played on a slightly more skewed pitch and looked after their own a bit better, but having said that - we did 500 years ago but found that those that wielded unlimited power usually did so to ultimately benefit themselves and their lineage, and as the wheel turned, political power was removed from them.

Thanks for the clarification, a distillation of your point

Misery Called Life wrote:You've addressed the issues quite eloquently UAEkid, although you did stumble on the freedom bit. Ur analogy is quite simple, the government here provides for it's citizens and that's all that matters. And around the world not too many other governments can compete on those grounds.

So far one could say that the UAE has had a glorious past, but what about the future UAEkid? How do you see the system panning out let's say 10-15 yrs from now?

Over to Viking, he can afford to throw caution into the wind and speak his heart out.

well I'm not sure what part of the future you mean but in over all, there will be no more spoiling for the locals, the more effort you'll make the more gain you'll get, regarding politics, I really can't see much locals interested and I'll leave the assumption to you guys, I can not analysis it.

Kid - do you agree that the active role of the Diwan has been diminished or do you think it is the same as it was 25-30 years ago ?

If diminished, what do you think the locals need ? Is it local councils whose representative are chosen/elected every 3-4-5 years ?

I can't believe it is nothing - that just makes no sense

shafique wrote:I like a good fight - and whilst I tend to favour underdogs, I think I'll put my money on my countryman on this one (sorry kid, when you're in a hole it's usually best to stop digging).

I see that one fanboy couldn't resist looking - and is either trying to be funny or is saying that Hamas has academics who speak out against its excesses. I suspect it is the former

Cheers,
Shafique

In the future, perhaps you should specify who you mean by fanboy?

I thought you meant for Hamas fanboys to look away:

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... google.com

Anyways, I'm always happy to condemn Hamas warcrimes and welcome any Muslims who join in their condemnation of Hamas.

^I never hesitate to condemn any terrorist acts - doesn't matter who carries out the killings. I don't automatically accept Fox News stories as true though - but when anyone kills civilians, I condemn it.

You ask how I define fanboy - well, one definition would those posters who resolutely refuse to acknowledge that Baruch Goldstein was a religously motivated terrorist who massacred worshippers in cold blood whilst he was in his Army uniform, and using IDF weapons. He was not mad/raving etc - and his actions are venerated by a worrying proportion of Israelis, but condemned by most.

Those that condemn him, aren't fanboys and are among those who criticise Israel for its crimes.

rats - let me know if you still have any other questions.

Cheers,
Shafique

viking-warrior wrote:Kid - do you agree that the active role of the Diwan has been diminished or do you think it is the same as it was 25-30 years ago ?

If diminished, what do you think the locals need ? Is it local councils whose representative are chosen/elected every 3-4-5 years ?

I can't believe it is nothing - that just makes no sense

it's not like in before I'll give you that, and to be honest not every one will get the chance to meet the shack it's not like or as easy as it use to be since they the shacks got more obligations that they use too but will be able to submit his needs in a letter..... representative?? aaahh if I know the locals attitude I would say they would rather get their needs from a shack and no one but the a shack.. they just don't trust this representative method and would rather do it them selves.

In AD for example the diwan opened other channels to get your need from diwan like submitting your needs on a website going throw the municipalities and doing it electronically but you still see the shack diwan packed with ppl who wants see him when it's a meeting day ( twice a week ) .

viking-warrior wrote: Today whilst your leaders are still making popular decisions you are happy to go along with the herd, but what if tomorrow "they" decide to impose an income tax, or ban women from the workplace or something that is not by and large generally popular (my personal view is that the introduction of a Singaporean style tax on cars would be fun to watch!!) - Where do you go ? Diwan, the Courts, the Municipality ? You will have no voice.

You waltzed around here taking little jibes at uaekid; your pompous as.s should already know the answer to that rhetoric question being quoted above. And if you dont know the answer (and yet you know enough to bring up Dr. Alroken as an example of limited freedoms) then i suggest you look at the history of the Ruling families in the UAE and how each branch of the current rulers got to their position. Also look at what happened in Qatar in '95 and you will see a trend: when someone is making unpopular decisions, that someone becomes a 'no-one', and quickly.

Oh and by the way, I would like to mention one more thing: democracy is not the holy grail of political rule as you try to make it out to be. In fact, democracy was mentioned as the WORST form of rule (after Anarchy) by the Ancient greeks (who introduced 'democracy' to us) because it gives an equal voice to everyone (including those who could care less about things and those who are medically insane, and so on).

Most importantly, however, is that democracy in its formation (And even till today) applies only to CITIZENS: the Ancient Greeks excluded women,slaves and young boys because they were not considered citizens of Athens from the democratic process. Therefore, when you speak about Democracy and how there are many problems here in the UAE that are not being spoken about; tell me: how many of those problems affect expats, and how many affect citizens? Anything that has to do with expats should not even be mentioned because expats by design are here for a temporary period of time, they have no right in any decision making and they can simply leave if they dont like it (and yes, they CAN be replaced). To say that UAE laws must cater to expats is ridiculous; in Canada and the US and most other western countries, a non-citizen and non-immigrant cant even get a driving license or go to school without a list of documents, nevermind getting the right to actually vote on things.

So that leaves us with citizens, who barely number a million and should continue to adhere to traditional ways of rule: if someone (such as Dr. Al Roken) has a problem with the system in place, they - as citizens and members of the tribes making up the base of the UAE's ruling system) must go to the proper area (ex: a diwan) and discuss their problem, NOT go to the media and publicize things. You seem to know enough about the local and culture here to know that 'saving face' is VERY important: break that rule and you're simply causing trouble for yourself.

Either way, while the topic at hand is interesting, your pompousness and absurd attitude makes this topic one that is simply ugly.