The Cartoons - UK Press Comment (yes, Another Thread!)

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The Cartoons - UK press comment (yes, another thread!) Feb 06, 2006
In the Evening Standard (London) of 6 Feb 05, the following article by Peter Oborne on the editorial page struck me of worthy of reproduction:

Here is an extract

"I do not think that a great issue of free speech is at stake here. Even if I did, I wouuld never want to die in a ditch to defend the right to abuse a great religious leader.

Those who defend the right to publish the cartoon on the basis that we have have free speech in modern Western societies are wrong. There are all kinds of things we cannot say, and for very admirable reasons. We cannot insult minority groups. We cannot say that slavery was right. We cannot say that the Holocaust was a good thing.

If you made those claims in certain parts of London you could rely on a very violent response indeed, and very few observers would feel that was unreasonable. It seems natural for Muslims to ask that we do not insult the man they regard as the exemplar of all human goodness, and quite right for us to agree.

This row over the cartoons is about a misunderstanding between two great cultures. There are vocal and important minorities on both sides who want to widen the rift between the Muslim world and the liberal West into an abyss.

But most people, Muslims and liberals alike, hope we can live together in a tolerant way."

Food for thought?

Wasalaam,
Shafique


p.s. The main gist of his article was that the Labour - i.e. government - stance is right and that of the opposition Tory party is wrong.

p.p.s. I'm organising a muslim boycott of Danish bacon :lol:

shafique
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Feb 07, 2006
I think that he are right in his point of view, in some way. It is fair that you don't print things that abuse other people.

But in the same time, he dont understand the reason of why these cartoons were printed. It was to create a debate, because a writer wanted to make a danish children book about Islam. The writer could get anyone to draw some pictures, because muslims in Denmark made threats against anyone who would draw some pictures to this book.

When the newspapers make a debate in Denmark there are often drawings as jokes, so it gives another view in the debate. and thats how simpel it can get.

People could say that: "I think Holocaust was a good thing", or "I think it never happened", and they wouldn't be punished for that.
Thats the same with Jyllands Posten, we can say it was stupid, but we cannot do more. (called free press)

I think we in Denmark have learned something in this case, but the system will and cannot change anything.
We cannot apologize, because it is not illegal, and will never be.


By the way:
i'm from the most famous country in the world right now, (think you have guessed) and i have joined this forum to learn more about what the common muslim thinks of this debate.
Danishguy
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Feb 07, 2006
DanishGuy welcome to the forum, its good to hear your prespective on this. There are multiple threads on the issue so feel free to contribute :)
MaaaD
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Feb 07, 2006
Shaf

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo please

not Danish Bacon pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Anything else OK no probs
arniegang
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Feb 07, 2006
To the Dane.... Denying the holocaust is forbidden and a crime in many countries.

Keep in mind that the holocaust is extremly minor and petty compared to attacking Islam. Thats the power of zionism.
Liban
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Feb 07, 2006
Holocaust - minor? Yeah OK tell that to the millions that died and still suffer!

By the way there is a news story today about an Iranian newspaper holding a cartoon drawin competition to do with the Holocaust.
Chocoholic
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Feb 07, 2006
Gee, Liban! That is insulting-think before you type!!
GAB
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Feb 07, 2006
Compared to Islam, the holocaust is a like a wart on a hippo.
Liban
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Feb 07, 2006
Got to wonder if you actually live in the real world. :roll: Some days you actually make sense then you make half-arsed insulting comments the next. Shameful and disrespectful!
GAB
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Feb 07, 2006
Not even all humanity dying off is worse than insulting God's choices for His Prophets.

Nothing. I don't blame you for not understanding me and thinking I am full of it... You do not beleive in God Allmighty.
Liban
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Feb 07, 2006
Your mind reading powers are supreme! :roll:
Seriously though, I honestly don't think you realise how insulting you are. You are infact being two faced. I find it abhorent that you can poke fun at something as serious as the Holocaust and deem it insignificant. If you expect people to respect your views at least present them in a respectable manner. To demean attrocities is uncharacteristic of an ethical person and certainly by one who claims to be religious. My morality, respect and compassion for others obviously outweighs yours. Your comments are intentionally hurtful and lack the compassion of any decent human being. Your comments are also racist and show a lack of intellect. You need to grow up.
GAB
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Feb 07, 2006
GAB, Liban is a lost cause. Sorry to say it, but after all these weeks of discussion he hasn't showed any understanding. He chooses to believe propaganda and to view the world with blinders on - and that is his choice, though we don't have to respect him for it.

Liban, your cliched rhetoric is getting really boring and has lost its shock value. We know exactly what kind of two-faced comments to expect from you.
kanelli
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Feb 07, 2006
Because this holocaust thing is blown out of proportion. Take a look at all the massacres in history and then you will see that this is minor...

I mean, recent history is an example:

Millions killed in Burundi and Rwanda in 1994. Does the West even bat an eyelid. Heh... Why is it because those poor souls were Black African? YEP YEP YEP... UN Major General Romeo Dallaire (Canadian peacekeeper) pleaded with Belgium (former Belgian colonies) and the West for help in preventing the millions of deaths. The West did nothing...

The zionist lobby is very effective in clouding people....
Liban
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Feb 07, 2006
Hmmm....there in lies the problem. I believe ALL atrocities against humanity are appalling. Why compare them? You really have a whole race issue "thing" going!! You are trying to make one thing more important than the other. Violence is senseless. I'd hope we'd agree on that! :shock: Killing is senseless. I'd hope we'd agree on that! :shock: Racism is senseless! I'd hope we'd agree on that! :shock: To compare something as atrocious as the holocaust to a wart on a hippo's bum is just ridiculing that seneseless chapter in history. Ridcule is something you said you were against, but you seem to have gotten it down to a fine art when it suits your agenda which by the way is derisive. You seem to think all Westerners hate Muslims -the Muslim faith embodies followers of so many racial backgrounds for a start that they would actually be hating themselves. Such a ludicrous thing to think. Your circle of friends must be of one race and one faith.

Truly you must be the nicest person on Earth but you are so bored shitless you like to antagonise every man and his dog. Try eating chocolate-you need it! :wink:
GAB
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Feb 07, 2006
GAB wrote:you like to antagonise every man and his dog. Try eating chocolate-you need it! :wink:


Dogs are disgusting and are instruments of satan in hell.

Chocolate is fattening.
Liban
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Feb 07, 2006
:lol: C'est drôle ça! :lol: I was going to suggest a walk with my dog, a chat, a cafe latte and some chocolate. Life is full of disappointments! :cry: I am truly heartbroken! :lol:
GAB
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Feb 07, 2006
GAB wrote::lol: C'est drôle ça! :lol: I was going to suggest a walk with my dog, a chat, a cafe latte and some chocolate. Life is full of disappointments! :cry: I am truly heartbroken! :lol:


Je suis tres content que tu trouves ca drole... Oh yes!!
Liban
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Feb 07, 2006
Liban

You need to get out more and expand your social life.

Some of your disgraceful comments are not worthy of a response.
arniegang
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Feb 07, 2006
arniegang wrote:Liban

You need to get out more and expand your social life.

Some of your disgraceful comments are not worthy of a response.


Coming from a 48 year old stuck on his computer till 4am at times, I do not give your comments much credance.
Liban
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Feb 07, 2006
Some of us do not have to work

:P :P :P
arniegang
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Feb 07, 2006
Must be a boring pitiful life...
Liban
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Feb 07, 2006
Liban- since you speak French I now see you in a whole different light!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Je suis tres content que tu trouves ca drole... Oh yes!!



I am so pleased to have made a positive impact on your day. May it be everlasting!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
GAB
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Feb 07, 2006
I thought the first clue of my speaking French would be calling myself Liban... :roll:
Liban
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Feb 07, 2006
Remember, honey, I am blonde!! :lol:
GAB
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Feb 07, 2006
:D
Liban
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Feb 07, 2006
Oh, I made you smile again! Nothing like the kindness and humour of an old woman to bring out the best in one! :lol:
GAB
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Feb 07, 2006
GAB wrote:Oh, I made you smile again! Nothing like the kindness and humour of an old woman to bring out the best in one! :lol:


Awwww.... :oops:
Liban
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Feb 07, 2006
I have this inkling you maybe being sarcastic! :shock: Damn this blonde hair-always a let down when you really have to think!
GAB
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Feb 07, 2006
No sarcasm involved... You'll know when I am being sarcastic :wink:
Liban
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Feb 07, 2006
Liban wrote:Must be a boring pitiful life...


Not boring at all Liban - i spend all my time doing the things i enjoy, and have the money to do so

:P :P
arniegang
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