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Google has rude awakening in China

China’s authoritarian government, caught up in a trial of strength with internet users over censorship, has opened a witch hunt on Google China

On Thursday, it accused the search engine of “severely endangering China’s youth” by linking to pornographic content – a search for the word “son” in Chinese would curiously turn up some results referring to incestuous sexual relationships.
Observers said the crackdown was likely to be a mixture of the government’s recent hard-line approach on censorship and increasingly bitter rivalry with Baidu, Google’s domestic Chinese rival, which holds 59 per cent market share. Although authorities accused Google of allowing links to lurid content, similar material could be found on Baidu.

Beijing has ordered Google to stop users of its Chinese-language service accessing overseas websites in the biggest blow to the world’s leading search engine in China since it started operating there four years ago.

The action comes amid a storm of outrage among Chinese internet users over Beijing’s order that every new PC sold in the country be equipped with censorship software, ostensibly to block pornography. One senior US internet figure said the move against Google appeared to be an attempt to deflect attention away from the domestic censorship uproar by redirecting concerns about pornography against a foreign company.

Before Google obtained a local internet licence in 2005, China’s internet censors frequently blocked its global website. After Google decided to tackle what could one day become the world’s largest internet market from within, it has had to adjust to China’s rules. As all other internet portals, news websites and search engines in China, it is required to censor the content on its site.

If a user searches on Google.cn for Falun Gong, the sect Beijing views as an evil cult, the website will display an additional sentence on the page saying: “According to local laws, regulations and policies, some search results could not be displayed.”

The company was “not in the game for making money” in the short-term, he said. Now such a goal could become even more remote. Google China took its first serious blow this year when Beijing blocked YouTube in March over videos related to dissent in Tibet, one of its main political taboos, causing the site to lose scores of Chinese web users to local competitors such as youku.

I'm sure if the Chinese government was so concerned about virtue, there's a lot else they should be doing.

This could be the new superpower of the world. Some say the Yen will be the most traded currency. Hah an artificially maintained currency.

What I fail to understand is that countries like India and China are simply achieving growth rates today because of their humongous population (which is gonna be a huge detriment in the long run) and high poverty levels.
So if America or Australia or Canada had a population of a billion, they too would still be growing.
This is one of the biggest drawbacks of the modern day economic system!

Misery Called Life wrote:I'm sure if the Chinese government was so concerned about virtue, there's a lot else they should be doing.

This could be the new superpower of the world. Some say the Yen will be the most traded currency. Hah an artificially maintained currency.

What I fail to understand is that countries like India and China are simply achieving growth rates today because of their humongous population (which is gonna be a huge detriment in the long run) and high poverty levels.
So if America or Australia or Canada had a population of a billion, they too would still be growing.
This is one of the biggest drawbacks of the modern day economic system!

Don’t compare PRC and India. There is nothing in common both in growth rate and their achievements. It’s 30 years distance between them and the gap has being increased year to year.
According to your theory India should have higher rate than China because India has been starting from zero level recently but it’s absolutely wrong.
PRC is doing well as soon as its government does right things. PRC most certainly will be a super power soon, but India will never be. So envy and keep silent.

I don't envy China nor India. As long as both can make me a fortune I'll be fine. I like small countries anyways.
Comparison between the two? There was none.

Subroto Bagchi
I do not think India should try to "grow as rapidly as China." Growth is not just an economic issue. Growth has to be aimed within a relevant country context. India has its own unique past, a very different present, and will chart her own version of the future. In that future, the most crtical component is to keep democracy safe.

The average Indian has, over the last almost 50 years, learned to value freedom. That requires India to socialize many actions before they get taken -- this has its own effect on speed. In matters of growth, one has to take a long view of time, and I see India making overall wholesome progress over time. Will that match China's current rate of growth? Probably not. Does not have to. There is a price to everything. We got to be aware of that.

Eat That RC!

Misery Called Life wrote:I don't envy China nor India. As long as both can make me a fortune I'll be fine. I like small countries anyways.
Comparison between the two? There was none.

Subroto Bagchi
I do not think India should try to "grow as rapidly as China." Growth is not just an economic issue. Growth has to be aimed within a relevant country context. India has its own unique past, a very different present, and will chart her own version of the future. In that future, the most crtical component is to keep democracy safe.

The average Indian has, over the last almost 50 years, learned to value freedom. That requires India to socialize many actions before they get taken -- this has its own effect on speed. In matters of growth, one has to take a long view of time, and I see India making overall wholesome progress over time. Will that match China's current rate of growth? Probably not. Does not have to. There is a price to everything. We got to be aware of that.

Eat That RC!

Eat your vomit (that India really is) yourself. It’s virtue of Chinese government and diligence of their citizens, not poverty. By the way there has been no poverty in PRC like in Mumbai’s (and another Indian cities) slum.
On the other hand there are so many beggars like India, Indonesia, Pakistan and the Philippines around. Why PRC?
There is no any connection between value of freedom (explain it to the kids in Indian slums, not me) and real quality of life.
All Asian tigers (Taiwan, South Korea) had a dictatorship at the beginning.

You can choose to look at the glass half full or half empty. You seem to choose whichever is convenient.

I don't wanna argue about poverty levels in India. It exists. But to say there is no poverty in China??? Ha that's a joke right.

Your bone of contention was slums. There's more to a slum than meets the eye.It's really politics more than poverty. Many slum dwellers actually own flats, which they prefer to rent. Slum mentality.
Besides these slums are little industries in their own rights.

Freedom? That's one thing an Indian has. And they really don't have to be rich to experience quality life.

Your line was hilarious. It's not poverty but virtue and diligence. This is not a kung fu movie. The Chinese government has tied a leash to it's citizens and locked them in a cage. If that's virtue to you than it's simply sad.

Why do you keep deviating from the topic? It's abut google and the Keynesian cross, which both China and India have used and will continue to use with success.
And I'm not emotional about this subject just being objective! Why don't you try to do the same?

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Red Chief wrote:

Misery Called Life wrote:I don't envy China nor India. As long as both can make me a fortune I'll be fine. I like small countries anyways.
Comparison between the two? There was none.

Subroto Bagchi
I do not think India should try to "grow as rapidly as China." Growth is not just an economic issue. Growth has to be aimed within a relevant country context. India has its own unique past, a very different present, and will chart her own version of the future. In that future, the most crtical component is to keep democracy safe.

The average Indian has, over the last almost 50 years, learned to value freedom. That requires India to socialize many actions before they get taken -- this has its own effect on speed. In matters of growth, one has to take a long view of time, and I see India making overall wholesome progress over time. Will that match China's current rate of growth? Probably not. Does not have to. There is a price to everything. We got to be aware of that.

Eat That RC!

Eat your vomit (that India really is) yourself. It’s virtue of Chinese government and diligence of their citizens, not poverty. By the way there has been no poverty in PRC like in Mumbai’s (and another Indian cities) slum.
On the other hand there are so many beggars like India, Indonesia, Pakistan and the Philippines around. Why PRC?
There is no any connection between value of freedom (explain it to the kids in Indian slums, not me) and real quality of life.
All Asian tigers (Taiwan, South Korea) had a dictatorship at the beginning.

yes india has slum and the citys are becomming messy because of the influx and migration from the rural areas into the urban metropolitan cities like Bangalore, Bombay (MUmbai), Delhi, etc. thousands of people migrate daily to metro citys.

we dont want any visa to migrate from rural areas to big citys like china, what they have system of Hukou !! and it is illegal in China to migrate from rural China to the Chinese cities like Shanghai, Beijing etc.

where is Freedom ?

and these how Chinese big cities are so well maintained, and keep the citys to the international standards, by denaying its own people rights.
forgeten these ?
like these on June 4, 1989, Tiananmen Square Massacre

What the freedom are you both talking about? It's a freedom to live in slums for most people. First time in my life I see such definition of freedom... Freedom in your opinions means strugle for surviving in slums, something opposite to freedom in its classic meaning...

INHO it doesn't matter who is on duty democracy or Communist party as soon as it does right thing. Communist party in China does right thing as soon as the country together with most citizens are getting wealthy but Indian goverment does absolutely nothing among regular votes.

The things they do including limitation of google and massacre are absolutely logical and true. It's not easy for the West desorganize one more great country. Thanks got they don't have their own freak Gorby.

Poverty has existed and still does. Slums do exist too. But the children of today have the freedom to pursue education, including university practically free of charge. If one is willing to work opportunities exist. That is freedom.
You seem quite gung ho about slums. Funny as it may sound there is no direct link between poverty and slums. Slums exist primarily because of politics.

The Indian government is doing a lot to alleviate poverty. There is something called the planning commission, which is the center of it all. Yet there is corruption, vote bank politics etc etc And there is the bureaucracy, so results are not as quick. But there is definitely considerable progress.

I don't particularly care how China fares via a vis India. Both countries have their fault lines and both countries are rather different. So comparison is out of the question.
And I have repeatedly stated that this is not a China v/s India thread.

You mentioned censorship of google was logical? How so?

Why continue to call the Tiananmen protests a pro-democracy movement when it clearly wasn’t? The protests were triggered by economic reasons when inflation reached 30% in major cities after state owned enterprises laid of millions of workers. People were frustrated that only officials were gaining from the move into capitalism while corruption and cronyism was rampant so they came out in droves to protest the situation calling for change and greater liberlization. To be sure pro-democracy protesters joined in calling for change but the bulk of the million plus protesters weren’t calling for democracy. By labeling Tiananman solely as a pro-democracy movement it distorts the reasons of what was really happening. It seems counter productive to call for press freedom and freedom if you can’t even accurately portray one of the most pivotal events of the 20th century.

edit

Misery Called Life wrote:Why continue to call the Tiananmen protests a pro-democracy movement when it clearly wasn’t? The protests were triggered by economic reasons when inflation reached 30% in major cities after state owned enterprises laid of millions of workers. People were frustrated that only officials were gaining from the move into capitalism while corruption and cronyism was rampant so they came out in droves to protest the situation calling for change and greater liberlization. To be sure pro-democracy protesters joined in calling for change but the bulk of the million plus protesters weren’t calling for democracy. By labeling Tiananman solely as a pro-democracy movement it distorts the reasons of what was really happening. It seems counter productive to call for press freedom and freedom if you can’t even accurately portray one of the most pivotal events of the 20th century.

You tell ME about that who was as young as you now at that time. That student’s protest had nothing in common with situation in economy. It was inspired by expected arrival of bloody Gorby to China only. Last one totally destroyed economy of SU, surrendered to US but dumped a lot of $hit to his predecessors to hide own failure.
Of course Chinese Communist party was not able to allow such scenario. The thread of sliding to chaos in face of external factors has been very real during all time of reforms. “Export of democracy” has destroyed a lot of countries for last 30 years.

You forgot about the most fundamental freedom. It’s a freedom to have 12 kids in time when you cannot feed yourself. This freedom will not allow India to clear slums for at least 50 years.

Red Chief wrote:You forgot about the most fundamental freedom. It’s a freedom to have 12 kids in time when you cannot feed yourself. This freedom will not allow India to clear slums for at least 50 years.

You're absolutely right. The population will eventually turn into a huge burden. Right now the government is blinded by it's so called softpower status.
You see India is not really concerned about clearing slums, or welfare of the people. It's politicians above the country.

Misery Called Life wrote:

Red Chief wrote:You forgot about the most fundamental freedom. It’s a freedom to have 12 kids in time when you cannot feed yourself. This freedom will not allow India to clear slums for at least 50 years.

You're absolutely right. The population will eventually turn into a huge burden. Right now the government is blinded by it's so called softpower status.
You see India is not really concerned about clearing slums, or welfare of the people. It's politicians above the country.

No Mcl, India is doing every thing for its development and welfare of the people, only the problem is every thing is in slow phase....
for example In China to build a flyover or a building all it takes is an order by the communist government.. no questions asked.. people have to give up their land immediately without any resistance....bcs its not democracy.
Indian democracy is a bit slow because of the democratic process involved in the whole operation… No law gets passed in India overnight, unlike China..

and regarding the population our poppulation is young poppulation, in the sense Indian population is relatively young with over 70% being below the age of 30... not unlike china...so i think it will never be burden

and regarding the clearing of slums, our goverment is tacking all steps to give afordable housing to all slums peoples...

Government dreams slum-free India with scheme for 62 mn people (Lead)
June 4th, 2009 - 6:49 pm ICT by IANS -
New Delhi, June 4 (IANS) If the Manmohan Singh government’s ambitious plan for a “slum free” India, as announced by President Pratibha Patil in parliament Thursday, becomes a reality some 62 million-plus people living in the country’s urban shanties will have a home of their own.
Called the Rajiv Awas Yojana, the special housing scheme for the urban poor and slum dwellers will be on the lines of Indira Awas Yojana for the rural areas.

Addressing the traditional joint session of parliament after the formation of a government following the elections, the president said: “My government’s effort would be to create a slum free India in five years through the Rajiv Awas Yojana.”

According to the Planning Commission of India, nearly 62 million people - out of a total population of 1.2 billion - lived in urban slums in India in 2001. Data with the National Sample Survey organisation predict there will be a shortage of around 25 million houses for them in the next four years.

Improving the conditions of the urban poor was on the agenda of the previous Manmohan Singh government too, which in July 2008 launched a nationwide survey about the status of slums in India.

The survey report covering nearly 15,000 villages and blocks in urban centres is expected October this year.

President Patil Thursday said the Rajiv Awas Yojana envisages to extend financial support under the Jawaharlal Nehru National Urban Renewal Mission (JNNURM) to states “that are willing to assign property rights” to people living in slums.

He said the existing schemes for affordable housing, including interest subsidy offer, would be dovetailed into the Rajiv Awas Yojana to make it a pilot project on affordable housing for urban poor.