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the vote in iran was completey fair ,the people are very happy living in a great democracy .

Is that irany (sic) or sarcasm?

No-one knows the true result of the ballot, probably never will.

BUT you forget that still not everyone wants to live in a democracy. For example there are a lot of inhabitants of the ex USSR that would like to have their old jobs guarding escalators back (I'm not making a joke). Countries where the state previously provided for everyone (with either a lot or a little) have a lot of people who are lost and without bearings when democracy is suddenly thrown in their path. Freedom to vote and free markets aren't just a birthday present everyone can unwrap and enoy. A lot of people sink.

I agree. Contaray to popular and american belief nor is democary the only way or wanted by everyone.

I could only imagine if this place was a democracy ! it would still be in the dark ages instead of moving forward everybody would be fighting to get hold of power and use and abuse those petro dollars.

Look at Nigeria has vast reserves of oil but with all the corrupt fighting for power going on the country is suffering.

If you have a one man show things can move at a rapid pace, without the hassle red tape of going through parliments and comitees. Something along the lines of let it be written let it be done.

Although this method can also fail if some corrupt indivdual comes into power.

Speedhump wrote:Is that irany (sic) or sarcasm?

No-one knows the true result of the ballot, probably never will.

BUT you forget that still not everyone wants to live in a democracy. For example there are a lot of inhabitants of the ex USSR that would like to have their old jobs guarding escalators back (I'm not making a joke). Countries where the state previously provided for everyone (with either a lot or a little) have a lot of people who are lost and without bearings when democracy is suddenly thrown in their path. Freedom to vote and free markets aren't just a birthday present everyone can unwrap and enoy. A lot of people sink.

Why don’t you leave former USSR alone and bother about bright future of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the topic, you are more familiar with?
On the other hand the only two “democracies” on the post Soviet space (Ukraine and Georgia) definitely show the worst results in economic and social developments. I don’t know whether it’s a coincident or a consequence of a simple human desire of some private persons to shorten a long way from rags to riches using the sudden power. Probably more elections mean more people is getting wealthy.

Red Chief wrote:

Speedhump wrote:Is that irany (sic) or sarcasm?

No-one knows the true result of the ballot, probably never will.

BUT you forget that still not everyone wants to live in a democracy. For example there are a lot of inhabitants of the ex USSR that would like to have their old jobs guarding escalators back (I'm not making a joke). Countries where the state previously provided for everyone (with either a lot or a little) have a lot of people who are lost and without bearings when democracy is suddenly thrown in their path. Freedom to vote and free markets aren't just a birthday present everyone can unwrap and enoy. A lot of people sink.

Why don’t you leave former USSR alone and bother about bright future of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the topic, you are more familiar with?
On the other hand the only two “democracies” on the post Soviet space (Ukraine and Georgia) definitely show the worst results in economic and social developments. I don’t know whether it’s a coincident or a consequence of a simple human desire of some private persons to shorten a long way from rags to riches using the sudden power. Probably more elections mean more people is getting wealthy.

I wasn't speaking badly about former USSR. It is just a fact that when people have been promised to be looked after from cradle to grave, if they are the thrown into a free market system they will not all be able to cope. I'm not criticising.

Just one more question. Do you think Georgians will ever really feel part of Russia? They seem all down the years to have been a different mentality of people. It was no coincidence that Stalin was Georgian; strong minded but charismatic, people who met him admired and simply wanted to follow him.

Speedhump wrote:Just one more question. Do you think Georgians will ever really feel part of Russia? They seem all down the years to have been a different mentality of people. It was no coincidence that Stalin was Georgian; strong minded but charismatic, people who met him admired and simply wanted to follow him.

Does it matter for a parasite the feelings of animal it is bloodsucking? Russia had a strong ability in reaching agreements with any tribe on its territory instead of killing them all as USA or Australia did in their short histories. At the beginning Georgian (they are Christian Orthodox) were threatened by Wild Turks. The thread was very real looking back at the fate of Armenians (also Christians) in the Ottoman Empire. So they asked Russia for protection and eventually joined Russia absolutely voluntary. For Russia it was absolutely useless territory. They even couldn’t feed a Russian garrison in Tbilisi. Moreover we got involved into 200 years bloody war with highland nomadic tribes, which happened to be between Russia and Georgia.
By the way Georgians have always been the most criminalized nation on the space of former Soviet Union. Even the best friend of Georgia, Ukrainian president Yuschenco, suggested launching visas for Georgians due to frequent burglaries in Kiev.

Maybe it's the gypsy blood

I can see how Georgia was a battleground for hundreds of years between Mongol, Ottoman, Persian, all making grabs at them. It must make for a certain type of character I guess. Maybe not so civilised as Russians I'm sure.

I don't know much about the Ottoman wars in Eastern Europe (yet). But I do believe that although their invasions were bloody and barbaric, once they had subjugated the people they were then quite tolerant rulers.

I could happily retire and read world history for the rest of my life.

Speedhump wrote:Maybe it's the gypsy blood

I can see how Georgia was a battleground for hundreds of years between Mongol, Ottoman, Persian, all making grabs at them. It must make for a certain type of character I guess. Maybe not so civilised as Russians I'm sure.

I don't know much about the Ottoman wars in Eastern Europe (yet). But I do believe that although their invasions were bloody and barbaric, once they had subjugated the people they were then quite tolerant rulers.

I could happily retire and read world history for the rest of my life.

Well, you have never listened about the massacre of Armenians in 1915. It's a big issue both in US and EU now.

Sorry, I was thinking much further back. Medieval history. You are right about more recent times.