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How do you know that Muslims wouldn't do it if there was a longer tradition of free speech and more religions present in the society?

Free speech is often abused, and cannot be policed. After all, who would be suitable to judge what could be said and what couldn't be? If there is no free speech, how can people express themselves on the important issues and have an open dialogue with the goal of effecting change? The bad must be taken with the good.

I think the publishing of the cartoons was very inappropriate, but I hold the newspaper editor and the people involved in creating the cartoons responsible for this crisis. They were the ones with the poor taste and obvious lack of respect, and they are the ones who should apologise and be held accountable.

Many citizens of nations that have a long tradition of free speech are used to it being used for shock value and can easily ignore what they don't like to see, and they do complain as well. This can partially explain why the average Dane probably doesn't see the cartoon issue as being that important.

Anyone here who thinks that the Danish people were at home thinking, "Yeah, the cartoons were great, to hell with all Muslims!" is seriously mislead and devoid of reason.

kanelli wrote:
I think the publishing of the cartoons was very inappropriate, but I hold the newspaper editor and the people involved in creating the cartoons responsible for this crisis. They were the ones with the poor taste and obvious lack of respect, and they are the ones who should apologise and be held accountable.
.

see we are all agreeing in one thing though ... the main reson that there was a spark on this conversatin is if you re-track ... you will find that there really was some insulting attack from your side (one of your debater) which actually tries to link this along side the Terrorist attack which we really believe is off the topic because Terrorist are condemnd in ALL ARAB COUNTRIES .. Even Bin Laden was thrown out of his ouwn country by his own family ... while the newspaper is diff. because the GOv. is not only defending the paper but its actually saying that they apologiz because they have to not because they know its wrong ...


or is it really hard for western to sometimes admitt that they are wrong ??? you might be diff kenelli but please do read the whole thread then you will know and find out why this has been like this ... it started as a god thread ...

kanelli wrote:How do you know that Muslims wouldn't do it if there was a longer tradition of free speech and more religions present in the society?

Free speech is often abused, and cannot be policed. After all, who would be suitable to judge what could be said and what couldn't be? If there is no free speech, how can people express themselves on the important issues and have an open dialogue with the goal of effecting change? The bad must be taken with the good.

I think the publishing of the cartoons was very inappropriate, but I hold the newspaper editor and the people involved in creating the cartoons responsible for this crisis. They were the ones with the poor taste and obvious lack of respect, and they are the ones who should apologise and be held accountable.

Many citizens of nations that have a long tradition of free speech are used to it being used for shock value and can easily ignore what they don't like to see, and they do complain as well. This can partially explain why the average Dane probably doesn't see the cartoon issue as being that important.

Anyone here who thinks that the Danish people were at home thinking, "Yeah, the cartoons were great, to hell with all Muslims!" is seriously mislead and devoid of reason.

Kenelli with all do respect but that reasoning belongs to the other thread and i beilive its already dead ... this is a thread of US meeting up and having a BBQ .. so pls say you in and send info to me liban or constantine ... well if you dont wish to come then just dont post and start a debate ... pls ...

but we would like you to come too with all honestly ... its just a forums so please lets be matured ..

Liban wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:According to news wires this morning the Danish offices of the newspaper were evacuated last night due to a bomb threat - great so now another fantastic image for you to think about! This does nothing to undo the image that many muslims when faced with something they don't like, are violent and aggressive!

Once again - well done!

They deserve a fate much worse than a simple bomb threat....

For someone so anti freedom of speech, you might be interested to learn that this comment puts you seriously in breach of UAE anti-terrorism laws.

Anyway, Vive La France!

Guess y'all better start boycotting Geant and Carrefour now.

mAJOR pAIN wrote:

kanelli wrote:
I think the publishing of the cartoons was very inappropriate, but I hold the newspaper editor and the people involved in creating the cartoons responsible for this crisis. They were the ones with the poor taste and obvious lack of respect, and they are the ones who should apologise and be held accountable.
.

see we are all agreeing in one thing though ... the main reson that there was a spark on this conversatin is if you re-track ... you will find that there really was some insulting attack from your side (one of your debater) which actually tries to link this along side the Terrorist attack which we really believe is off the topic because Terrorist are condemnd in ALL ARAB COUNTRIES .. Even Bin Laden was thrown out of his ouwn country by his own family ... while the newspaper is diff. because the GOv. is not only defending the paper but its actually saying that they apologiz because they have to not because they know its wrong ...


or is it really hard for western to sometimes admitt that they are wrong ??? you might be diff kenelli but please do read the whole thread then you will know and find out why this has been like this ... it started as a god thread ...

Well that's very nice of you to say MP and a nice sentiment, but a whole other ball game when Liban condons bomb threats against the paper!

Yshimy - sorry but you are totally narrow minded, you believe everything is a fabrication and against you which is not true, you like Liban have been listening to the wicked little whispers in your ears when you should have been ignoring them and you'll learn the error of that soon enough, although it'll be too late by then.

mAJOR pAIN wrote:

kanelli wrote:
I think the publishing of the cartoons was very inappropriate, but I hold the newspaper editor and the people involved in creating the cartoons responsible for this crisis. They were the ones with the poor taste and obvious lack of respect, and they are the ones who should apologise and be held accountable.
.

see we are all agreeing in one thing though ... the main reson that there was a spark on this conversatin is if you re-track ... you will find that there really was some insulting attack from your side (one of your debater) which actually tries to link this along side the Terrorist attack which we really believe is off the topic because Terrorist are condemnd in ALL ARAB COUNTRIES .. Even Bin Laden was thrown out of his ouwn country by his own family ... while the newspaper is diff. because the GOv. is not only defending the paper but its actually saying that they apologiz because they have to not because they know its wrong ...


or is it really hard for western to sometimes admitt that they are wrong ??? you might be diff kenelli but please do read the whole thread then you will know and find out why this has been like this ... it started as a god thread ...

I said nothing about terrorism in relation to this topic.

mAJOR pAIN wrote:

kanelli wrote:How do you know that Muslims wouldn't do it if there was a longer tradition of free speech and more religions present in the society?

Free speech is often abused, and cannot be policed. After all, who would be suitable to judge what could be said and what couldn't be? If there is no free speech, how can people express themselves on the important issues and have an open dialogue with the goal of effecting change? The bad must be taken with the good.

I think the publishing of the cartoons was very inappropriate, but I hold the newspaper editor and the people involved in creating the cartoons responsible for this crisis. They were the ones with the poor taste and obvious lack of respect, and they are the ones who should apologise and be held accountable.

Many citizens of nations that have a long tradition of free speech are used to it being used for shock value and can easily ignore what they don't like to see, and they do complain as well. This can partially explain why the average Dane probably doesn't see the cartoon issue as being that important.

Anyone here who thinks that the Danish people were at home thinking, "Yeah, the cartoons were great, to hell with all Muslims!" is seriously mislead and devoid of reason.

Kenelli with all do respect but that reasoning belongs to the other thread and i beilive its already dead ... this is a thread of US meeting up and having a BBQ .. so pls say you in and send info to me liban or constantine ... well if you dont wish to come then just dont post and start a debate ... pls ...

but we would like you to come too with all honestly ... its just a forums so please lets be matured ..

You are in the wrong thread Major Pain No worries.

Major Pain, what is "my side"? I am not Danish and I did not make the cartoons.

So no one cares to comment on the fact that it really might be the case that free speech is what is being defended, not offensive cartoons to Muslims? Again, the Danish people are not in some anti-Muslim conspiracy!

Some Muslims on this board refuse to listen to any contrary evidence or cultural explanations - they just want to believe in conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy!

whoa! I guess HP, LIBAN, YSHIMY have covered almost every single bit to this issue & I agree with them. If others fails to understand, no point in extending this. Christian or no Christian. Western or no Western. Its not about this.

Kenelli, nothing like Muslims are watching the fur fly.. Liban can be aggressive in puting his word...otherwise I support him and his views on this, totally.

We Muslims feel insulted, we chose to take action by bycotting as a personal choice... simple. This topic is not for Non muslims anyway cause they are not the one affected.

No point giving you guys example of susbstituting Jesus or the Bible in the place of Quran, and Prophet Mohd. (PBUH) cause I see that your not sensitive enough towards your religion, your not religious. (no offence) The same if was done about someone you really Loved... was accused of something that theyre not, you'd just wana kill that person...like Arnie- MP case... Arnie is pissed.

So please now, Leave us Alone and dont make it worst.

easternjewel wrote:whoa! I guess HP, LIBAN, YSHIMY have covered almost every single bit to this issue & I agree with them. If others fails to understand, no point in extending this. Christian or no Christian. Western or no Western. Its not about this.

Kenelli, nothing like Muslims are watching the fur fly.. Liban can be aggressive in puting his word...otherwise I support him and his views on this, totally.

We Muslims feel insulted, we chose to take action by bycotting as a personal choice... simple. This topic is not for Non muslims anyway cause they are not the one affected.

No point giving you guys example of susbstituting Jesus or the Bible in the place of Quran, and Prophet Mohd. (PBUH) cause I see that your not sensitive enough towards your religion, your not religious. (no offence) The same if was done about someone you really Loved... was accused of something that theyre not, you'd just wana kill that person...like Arnie- MP case... Arnie is pissed.

So please now, Leave us Alone and dont make it worst.

Sorry EJ

I beg to differ. The difference being that although i think MP and some others on here are mentally mixed up, i do not wish them dead or speak ill of the dead.

Religious or not, i can stand tall and say i do not have the hatred inside me, that some on here clearly do.

And there is a huge difference regarding being sensitive to one's religion and being totally obsessed to the point of pure hatred.

Who the hell are you or anyone else to judge, how close any of us is to our given or religion? Speak for yourself and keep your opinions to yourself. You know nothing about me or the vast majority on here or anywhere else.

If being true to one's religion means, that one goes through life with that much hatred inside, then i truely feel deep sympathy for them.

and EJ

No we wont leave things alone, this is a Public Forum. If people dont want to be openly challenged, then they had best keep their insular opinions to themselves.

arniegang wrote:and EJ

No we wont leave things alone, this is a Public Forum. If people dont want to be openly challenged, then they had best keep their insular opinions to themselves.

Sorry I mentioned it. Ofcurse it is a public forum & I thot everybody was pretty much done with this subject... so now what are you gona do bout it force us your views..

easternjewel wrote:

arniegang wrote:and EJ

No we wont leave things alone, this is a Public Forum. If people dont want to be openly challenged, then they had best keep their insular opinions to themselves.

Sorry I mentioned it. Ofcurse it is a public forum & I thot everybody was pretty much done with this subject... so now what are you gona do bout it force us your views..

No in the west we refer to it as "a right to reply". This is something a lot of you have no concept of sadly.

Are you high? What is up with you?? what is this 'west west west' arguement for?? what is this division for? I know you don’t care, but sadly, your turning out to be less wise then I presumed.

easternjewel wrote:Are you high? What is up with you?? what is this 'west west west' arguement for?? what is this division for? I know you don’t care, but sadly, your turning out to be less wise then I presumed.

Ask Liban and Co. EJ, they are the authority on "division".

And it wasn't written in respect of an arguement. It was a factual statement. Most of the middle east is not democratic, the "right to reply" is therefore usually more often than not "supressed".

It is the very reason why papers like the Kaleej Times and Gulf News are subject to restrictions on what or how they can report. For example the subject surrounding "child Jockeys" is never mentioned. However it is freely reported in our press.

It is a quincential and pivotel agrguement within the topic at hand. Things have been posted here on a topic, and we have a right to reply.

........ and EJ

You are wrong a lot of us do care. I for one agree that it was most dis-respectful what the Danes put in the paper.

Just because some of us disagree with certain periphery issues that have since come up in here, doesnt mean we "dont care".

Having an alternative viewpoint or opinion, doesnt mean that that i/we do not care.

arniegang, it doesn't matter that many of us said the cartoons were really distasteful and shouldn't have been published. It doesn't matter that we tried to explain the importance of free speech in our cultures, no matter if it is abused or not. No one cares what we say!

NO LISTENS OR CARES BECAUSE WE ARE WESTERNERS AND AUTOMATICALLY EVIL.

Totally agree K.

I find it interesting that they, in all probability, truly do believe that the likes of you and i, Choc etc dont care.

In many respects, this is very sad indeed. I believe there is an element of "indoctrination", that doesnt permit or has allowed them to see all issues with a balanced viewpoint. It takes away their ability to be "rational" and to have nothing other than a tightly focused perspective.

EJ whom i like very much, is fairly representative of this and is at the thin end of the scale, as opposed to the likes of Liban and co, who are at the extreme end.

EJ in particular took my post out of context purely because i referred to the situation in "the west" allowing our ability to a right of reply.

Sadly for the lovely people like EJ, because they are not aware of reporting restrictions for example the UAE, they see this as a form of crtisism, when it comes up in conversation. Sadly they take it personally.

Eastern Jewel, just give up my sister. These people are too narrow minded and set in their ways... I doubt its possible for them to see the light.

I know its frustrating but just recite the Shahada or Fatiha to yourself and you will feel much better.

Liban wrote:Eastern Jewel, just give up my sister. These people are too narrow minded and set in their ways... I doubt its possible for them to see the light.

I know its frustrating but just recite the Shahada or Fatiha to yourself and you will feel much better.

There ya go K

My case rests

we all never like the cartoons ... period .. EJ is right .... and EJ FYI I WAS ON YOUR SIDE ever since...


and

kanelli heheheheehehe yes i know i was in the wrong thread hahahaahah how embarrasssing heheheeh sorry

arniegang wrote:

Liban wrote:Eastern Jewel, just give up my sister. These people are too narrow minded and set in their ways... I doubt its possible for them to see the light.

I know its frustrating but just recite the Shahada or Fatiha to yourself and you will feel much better.

There ya go K

My case rests

Yes your case and proof of stubborness rests. Congrats!!

We will just have to agree to disagree Liban. In any case i will let the silent majority form their own conclusions.

Religion really does brainwash, doesn't it? Such a shame.

arniegang wrote:We will just have to agree to disagree Liban. In any case i will let the silent majority form their own conclusions.

In that case I would hide my head like an osterich if I was you....

kanelli wrote:Religion really does brainwash, doesn't it? Such a shame.

Spoken like a true kaffir.... Sad how your soul is damned...

Liban, if there is a god, you will be the first to burn in hell for how you judge others like you are more important than god. Leave the judging to god as it says in most religious texts, and keep your mouth shut if you are truly a faithful person.

kanelli wrote:Liban, if there is a god, you will be the first to burn in hell for how you judge others like you are more important than god. Leave the judging to god as it says in most religious texts, and keep your mouth shut if you are truly a faithful person.

Thats funny how you say I will burn in hell and at the same time say I cannot pass judgement on others...

LOL



Idiot.

Read a book on emotional intelligence, and spend a little less time in your brainwashing chamber.