Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai General Chat

So you've lost your job, you have a reasonable debt and you now have 30 days to leave the country. In what situation is it better to stay rather than just go, and what are you options re: paying off your debt?

I've thought about this whole 'freezing the bank account' thing and I assume that this is just so that you go and talk to the bank rather than some permanent situation of never being able to get your money.

Does anyone have experience with this? Is the idea to work out some kind of payment plan with the bank, and if so how would they 'enforce' this if you're allowed to leave?

Basically, what I'm asking is why wouldn't you just run? Being blacklisted in a country I will never visit again is infinitely preferable to spending even one day in jail here.

PS: This is not my situation, but a lot of friends are potentially facing this.

How come no 1 has insurance? On their debts?

Misery Called Life wrote:How come no 1 has insurance? On their debts?

Fair point. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone here mention income insurance. Is it available here?

Captain Australia wrote:Basically, what I'm asking is why wouldn't you just run?

You have good ideas on how, don't you Captain?

Do tell us...

WhiteJade wrote:You have good ideas on how, don't you Captain?

Do tell us...

Not sure if I understand you correctly. 'How' to run is not the problem, you just go to the airport and get a ticket home. Why not to run is the issue.

There could possibly be some legal mechanism whereby the banks can inform the authorities that you have a debt and should not be able to leave the country, but 1) you're not running out on the debt until you fail to make a repayment, 2) it would take some time (if it were even possible) to get you on the dont-leave list so you could be long gone by then.

Captain Australia wrote:Not sure if I understand you correctly. 'How' to run is not the problem, you just go to the airport and get a ticket home. Why not to run is the issue.

There could possibly be some legal mechanism whereby the banks can inform the authorities that you have a debt and should not be able to leave the country, but 1) you're not running out on the debt until you fail to make a repayment, 2) it would take some time (if it were even possible) to get you on the dont-leave list so you could be long gone by then.

If it were that easy, many would have done it. But why didn't they?

And 1) If a failure of repayment is foreseeable, many would've run away before jailed; 2) Still possible they are faster than you.

Captain Australia wrote:

WhiteJade wrote:You have good ideas on how, don't you Captain?

Do tell us...

Not sure if I understand you correctly. 'How' to run is not the problem, you just go to the airport and get a ticket home. Why not to run is the issue.

There could possibly be some legal mechanism whereby the banks can inform the authorities that you have a debt and should not be able to leave the country, but 1) you're not running out on the debt until you fail to make a repayment, 2) it would take some time (if it were even possible) to get you on the dont-leave list so you could be long gone by then.

Once the Company informs the Bank that you are no longer working for them they can then inform the Authorities. If a person takes any kind of loan one of the conditions that the Company is supposed to fulfill is to inform the Bank upon the Employee's termination of employment.

sage & onion wrote:Once the Company informs the Bank that you are no longer working for them they can then inform the Authorities. If a person takes any kind of loan one of the conditions that the Company is supposed to fulfill is to inform the Bank upon the Employee's termination of employment.

Ok, so what does that actually mean? I'm not asking that sarcastically, I'm just trying to understand things.

Are you automatically assumed to be a criminal if you have a debt and have lost your job. i.e. Will they actually stop you from leaving the country?

I know that the company will/should inform the bank that you have lost your job, but if the bank tells the authorities does that automatically make you a criminal who can't leave the country? What if you have lots of cash and fully intend to pay back your debts but need to leave the country for business for example? I would assume that any action by the bank regarding the police would only occur when you have defaulted on a repayment.

Has anyone heard of anyone they know being actually detained at the airport?

Captain Australia wrote:

sage & onion wrote:Once the Company informs the Bank that you are no longer working for them they can then inform the Authorities. If a person takes any kind of loan one of the conditions that the Company is supposed to fulfill is to inform the Bank upon the Employee's termination of employment.

Ok, so what does that actually mean? I'm not asking that sarcastically, I'm just trying to understand things.

Are you automatically assumed to be a criminal if you have a debt and have lost your job. i.e. Will they actually stop you from leaving the country?

I know that the company will/should inform the bank that you have lost your job, but if the bank tells the authorities does that automatically make you a criminal who can't leave the country? What if you have lots of cash and fully intend to pay back your debts but need to leave the country for business for example? I would assume that any action by the bank regarding the police would only occur when you have defaulted on a repayment.

Has anyone heard of anyone they know being actually detained at the airport?

I think as long as your making payments it doesn't matter if you lost your job. Visit dubaidog's blog, I remember he has been in this situation.

Here's what I think

Once an employee is terminated he is entitled to some gratuity, which the company witholds or pays to the bank. I think your final salary is also withheld by the bank.
I'm sure when a bank issues huge loans it must keep some form of collateral, that may ensure that people who lose their jobs do not run away.... I really don't think that people have been detained at airports just because of a job loss, but they may be held back in the country by the bank indirectly.
Besides I don't think the system is that sophisticated.They are still in the process of formulating the first credit ratings agency for individuals...So it highly improbable that the immigration authorities at the airports have access to an individuals bank records, unless specifically given to them by a bank.
Another possibility is that once an employee is terminated, the bank is informed, and the bank then directly transfers the case to the debt recovering agencies, who then do the needful.

I had come across an article that mentioned insurance on loans, credit cards etc. I'll try and source out that article....

Captain Australia wrote:

sage & onion wrote:Once the Company informs the Bank that you are no longer working for them they can then inform the Authorities. If a person takes any kind of loan one of the conditions that the Company is supposed to fulfill is to inform the Bank upon the Employee's termination of employment.

Ok, so what does that actually mean? I'm not asking that sarcastically, I'm just trying to understand things.

Are you automatically assumed to be a criminal if you have a debt and have lost your job. i.e. Will they actually stop you from leaving the country?

I know that the company will/should inform the bank that you have lost your job, but if the bank tells the authorities does that automatically make you a criminal who can't leave the country? What if you have lots of cash and fully intend to pay back your debts but need to leave the country for business for example? I would assume that any action by the bank regarding the police would only occur when you have defaulted on a repayment.

Has anyone heard of anyone they know being actually detained at the airport?

If you are completely debt free, that means loan, mortgage, credit card, outstanding post dated cheques, the issue is easily resolved with the bank where you can then transfer the balance of you monies and close the account. The problem is always coming from the people that do run and leave debts behind them, this is what makes it bad for the rest of us.

Yes, many people have run and left the country with huge debts. And then you wonder why comapnies hold passports, to stop this kind of thing happening.

But yes, what are you supposed to do if you find yourself unemployed and unable to repay the debts?

I've also never seen any form of payment insurance being offered on loans, mortgages here, certainly it is common practice in many other countries.

Chocoholic wrote:Yes, many people have run and left the country with huge debts. And then you wonder why comapnies hold passports, to stop this kind of thing happening.

But yes, what are you supposed to do if you find yourself unemployed and unable to repay the debts?

I've also never seen any form of payment insurance being offered on loans, mortgages here, certainly it is common practice in many other countries.

It's a good one to discuss, but surely one has to be responsible for ones actions, if you make a bad decision sometimes it hurts but you have to take the consequences. To simply cut and run as many are doing certainly does make it difficult for those of us who are trying to do things properly.

sage & onion wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:Yes, many people have run and left the country with huge debts. And then you wonder why comapnies hold passports, to stop this kind of thing happening.

But yes, what are you supposed to do if you find yourself unemployed and unable to repay the debts?

I've also never seen any form of payment insurance being offered on loans, mortgages here, certainly it is common practice in many other countries.

It's a good one to discuss, but surely one has to be responsible for ones actions, if you make a bad decision sometimes it hurts but you have to take the consequences. To simply cut and run as many are doing certainly does make it difficult for those of us who are trying to do things properly.

Explain it to me Sage, how does it make it difficult for you who is "trying to do things properly"? There is no room for negotiations, you either pay your loan or go to jail. I had credit card balances and paid in full, still waiting for my final paycheck. I'll transfer the money and close my accounts.

K-Dog wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:Yes, many people have run and left the country with huge debts. And then you wonder why comapnies hold passports, to stop this kind of thing happening.

But yes, what are you supposed to do if you find yourself unemployed and unable to repay the debts?

I've also never seen any form of payment insurance being offered on loans, mortgages here, certainly it is common practice in many other countries.

It's a good one to discuss, but surely one has to be responsible for ones actions, if you make a bad decision sometimes it hurts but you have to take the consequences. To simply cut and run as many are doing certainly does make it difficult for those of us who are trying to do things properly.

Explain it to me Sage, how does it make it difficult for you who is "trying to do things properly"? There is no room for negotiations, you either pay your loan or go to jail. I had credit card balances and paid in full, still waiting for my final paycheck. I'll transfer the money and close my accounts.

The more that people cut and run leaving debts behind the more the banks and the authorities will tighten the screws on us that are trying to do things the right way, this so often happens in life and this is surely no different.

S. Onion,
K-dog is right and you didn't reply his question.

Imagine a situation: some guy were redundant from some UAE firm but found another good job in his own country. He had an outstanding loan and were ready to continue paying on monthly basis as he had done before redundancy. Do you know what would happen then?

Is any suddenly fired guy with an outstanding loan a criminal?

Once your fired/ resigned the company informs the bank where your salary txfr takes place. They are the ones who then freeze your account in case you have a debt ie credit card, loan etc. Having said that if you are terminated I dont really see that as the persons fault .... unless your caught shagging the bosses wife!
This is the land of credit an easy money... anyone unfamiliar will get trapped in the credit card trap. Numerous articles have come up reg the same and also a very interesting article regarding credit sheild. All credit cards usually have some sort of insurance but you have read the fine print and then into the micro film to figure out the clauses. As far as I know mashreq and citi cover job loss hence you have to be really careful.
But how do you expect someone whoose just landed and enjoying a brand new car, duplex villa and the notorious dubai nightlife to be aware of such things.. Its a no win situation and I supose if forums like this educate a few of those unfortunate souls then thats a job well done

There is so much talk these days about outstanding credit responsibilities because so many people were caught up in the redundency.

When coming to Dubai people had to go into debt to find housing and pay rent/agent's fee; purchase furniture; pay school fees and most needed a car to get around (purchase rather than rent). Many of those caught in that position were recent arrivals. People who had to acquire all of the above went into serious debt. Then you had those who had that debt and added to it by purchasing property. When the economy in the States was starting to shake no one took that as a signal. Even as the economy of other nations started to unravel no one saw that as a sign. There wasn't a person here who thought it would hit the UAE. As the economy was collapsing banks were still calling and offering higher credit, additional credit cards, personal and housing loans. The banks acted irresponsible then and they continue to do so by lowering required salaries for loans and purchasing cars.

Bora Bora wrote:The banks acted irresponsible then and they continue to do so by lowering required salaries for loans and purchasing cars.

As a confirmation I've just received on my mobile:

Own your favorite Nissan with 0% Down Payment and low interest rate 4,5%. Call...

At the other hand many banks has reduced required salary from 10K back to 4K recently.

It looks like as the crisis is over...

Red Chief wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:The banks acted irresponsible then and they continue to do so by lowering required salaries for loans and purchasing cars.

As a confirmation I've just received on my mobile:

Own your favorite Nissan with 0% Down Payment and low interest rate 4,5%. Call...

At the other hand many banks has reduced required salary from 10K back to 4K recently.

It looks like as the crisis is over...

Nah, I think its sucking more people into the crisis. And some people can't resist a good deal!! When everyone is cutting back the banks just want to get into peoples wallets.

If I received that text I would ask: What's wrong with the mobile I already have. Its paid for. I can receive and make calls. What more do I need? Mobiles and cars are two of the greatest weaknesses of people in Dubai. Need the latest this, need the latest that.

I thought looking at the sms how either stupid or smart-arse all those bank are, offering 0% downpayment after facing bad debts.

As for me I have not taken any loan due to an illegal signed blank cheque, required by some banks for "security purpose".

I think I've been a little hard on other expats here in the past when talking about debt and the like but I've changed my tune. I used to think it was just greedy expats living above their means that got into trouble, but not I see that it's potentially everyone here that could have ended up in the situation I described in the original post.

You HAVE to go into debt to move somewhere like here. Bora Bora and others above me have said it but when you first move here there is really no other option. If that makes you 'irresponsible' like Sage has said then almost all of us are irresponsible. I would like to know how she acted in her first year here.

The gains here are obviously higher, but the losses are higher too. There is no way I would even consider (let alone be able to) pay almost $50K aussie for a rental place, yet here it is commonplace. How the hell would I pay that back if I lost my job? No way in hell, unless I had been working here for a few years.

I have known some people who wanted to do an airport run when they got terminated but unfortunately can't do it as their passport they say is now being held by the police or the bank, don't know the truth which is which really.

Some of them got imprisoned for a few days but then still can't get out as they still have more debts from other banks, I tell you, these people have at least 9 credit cards! and that's aside from their personal loans. So I asked them, isn't it supposed to be once you got in prison the debt is wiped out, yes they say but only for that bank who filed a case against him but the other banks don't want him in prison anymore, they're just holding on to his passport so he can't leave.

Most are desperate to leave since they say they can't find a job here anymore or the salaries offered were too low that even if they take it, nothing will be left even for food.

I'm wondering though if it is true what they're saying since they are still eating as I've noticed.

Captain Australia wrote: I used to think it was just greedy expats living above their means that got into trouble, but not I see that it's potentially everyone here that could have ended up in the situation I described in the original post.

It's actually impossible to separate greedy ppl. from another ones in the UAE. The problem is that cheap credits sometimes without downpayment pushed not only ppl. but whole nations (like Baltic countries) make unreasonable spending.

DDS wrote:I have known some people who wanted to do an airport run when they got terminated but unfortunately can't do it as their passport they say is now being held by the police or the bank, don't know the truth which is which really.

Some of them got imprisoned for a few days but then still can't get out as they still have more debts from other banks, I tell you, these people have at least 9 credit cards! and that's aside from their personal loans. So I asked them, isn't it supposed to be once you got in prison the debt is wiped out, yes they say but only for that bank who filed a case against him but the other banks don't want him in prison anymore, they're just holding on to his passport so he can't leave.

Most are desperate to leave since they say they can't find a job here anymore or the salaries offered were too low that even if they take it, nothing will be left even for food.

I'm wondering though if it is true what they're saying since they are still eating as I've noticed.

More than likely maxing out their credit cards and think it won't/can't happen to them, and if it does happen, they will do a runner.

Bora Bora wrote:

DDS wrote:I have known some people who wanted to do an airport run when they got terminated but unfortunately can't do it as their passport they say is now being held by the police or the bank, don't know the truth which is which really.

Some of them got imprisoned for a few days but then still can't get out as they still have more debts from other banks, I tell you, these people have at least 9 credit cards! and that's aside from their personal loans. So I asked them, isn't it supposed to be once you got in prison the debt is wiped out, yes they say but only for that bank who filed a case against him but the other banks don't want him in prison anymore, they're just holding on to his passport so he can't leave.

Most are desperate to leave since they say they can't find a job here anymore or the salaries offered were too low that even if they take it, nothing will be left even for food.

I'm wondering though if it is true what they're saying since they are still eating as I've noticed.

More than likely maxing out their credit cards and think it won't/can't happen to them, and if it does happen, they will do a runner.

Yes, they maxed out their cards most of them but what i'm wondering about is that they're not holding their passports. They say it's with the bank or the police, i mean how could it be with the bank but if it's with the police then, i'm sure there are still cases filed against them.

That's why some of them were willing to serve time in prison just so their passport gets returned and they can go home but they say the banks won't let them go to prison anymore. I mean how'd the banks do that, archive the cases or keep postponing the hearing so the case drags on?

It was just recently that i've heard of this scenario where banks will not let you go to prison since they can't collect anymore once you serve time. I think this would be good as then you'll have the chance to make a clean break once you find a job. That is if you can find a job that pays.

Red Chief wrote:

Captain Australia wrote: I used to think it was just greedy expats living above their means that got into trouble, but not I see that it's potentially everyone here that could have ended up in the situation I described in the original post.

It's actually impossible to separate greedy ppl. from another ones in the UAE. The problem is that cheap credits sometimes without downpayment pushed not only ppl. but whole nations (like Baltic countries) make unreasonable spending.

Impossible to seperate?

I think its pretty easy really. If I was in my own country and on my own, I would RENT EVERYTHING until I saved enough cash to buy them. Greed = taking unreasonable risks.

A greedy thought process would be:
*gay pansy voice*
Gee, I spend all this money on renting a car, let me just take a 0% down loan and use the car allowance from work to finance my purchase!! What a great idea!... Because you know, the economy is so great I will be able to live here forever! Yay!
Then, I can borrow even more money and invest in a 2 square foot property for 1 million Dhs, because the prices will forever be going up because the economy is forever going to be great and I will be able to live here forever, it's a no brainer. Double Yay!!
*gay pansy voice off*

Get real. There are some who got suckered into the mess they are in. My heart goes out to them.
The rest of the speculators (read: greedy bastards) can rot in hell.

dresden wrote:I think its pretty easy really. If I was in my own country and on my own, I would RENT EVERYTHING until I saved enough cash to buy them.

As soon as I'm not in my country I will RENT EVERYTHING and send earned money to my HOME. No loans - no problems.

So there is no much difference between us, Mr. Bosch.

I was talking about the situation that described by Ms. BB.

Red Chief wrote:

dresden wrote:I think its pretty easy really. If I was in my own country and on my own, I would RENT EVERYTHING until I saved enough cash to buy them.

As soon as I'm not in my country I will RENT EVERYTHING and send earned money to my HOME. No loans - no problems.

So there is no much difference between us, Mr. Bosch.

I was talking about the situation that described by Ms. BB.

Ahh
My previous statement wasn't directed at you per se, but at the generalization of people being greedy in the UAE.

By the way which country were you talking about? Sachsen? I listen that Dresden was totally destroyed by allies.