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Del wrote:

Speedhump wrote:It was an equitable comparison. Illegal 'taxing' is criminal wherever it occurs. I know it's hard but try to keep up, you did start this thread....

You're starting to get personal mate. The only thing hard around here is that excited little knob in your trousers.

You're a bit pathetic now. you said 'Don't use words such as logic mate' That was quite personal. I asked you to try to keep up with the thread (personal?). Now you're talking about my manhood like a playground child would! I think that says it all.

Illegal taxing, brought about by illegal dumping. Is illegal dumping OK then?.

I said before but you really don't get it, two wrongs don't make a right, except maybe in your world?

Robby,

I should have said, your comments mostly make sense, as usual.

(edit:)Except 'Other way around, its good for those pirates to make their point and get their country back in the media, since all of this would otherwise be ignored, and now its TOP news around the globe. Talking about the good use of media, again!!!'

Use of violence (ETA, IRA, 7/11, etc) is valid to get media attention? They now are threatening to kill US civilians. Surely that shows their true colours to you now?
(/edit)

I wasn't attacking you mate, you know that. But it drives me crazy the way that people say that Hari is an objective journalist. He is the exact opposite. Even valid topics take the tone of a fanatical rant when he has pen in hand, and he often damages the subjects he touches. But he gets his spotlight which is what he really wants more than anything.

Speedhump wrote: I said before but you really don't get it, two wrongs don't make a right, except maybe in your world?

I agree two wrongs don't make a right.

Speedhump wrote:Robby,

I should have said, your comments mostly make sense, as usual.

(edit:)Except 'Other way around, its good for those pirates to make their point and get their country back in the media, since all of this would otherwise be ignored, and now its TOP news around the globe. Talking about the good use of media, again!!!'

Use of violence (ETA, IRA, 7/11, etc) is valid to get media attention? They now are threatening to kill US civilians. Surely that shows their true colours to you now?
(/edit)

I wasn't attacking you mate, you know that. But it drives me crazy the way that people say that Hari is an objective journalist. He is the exact opposite. Even valid topics take the tone of a fanatical rant when he has pen in hand, and he often damages the subjects he touches. But he gets his spotlight which is what he really wants more than anything.

I understand what your saying. Like I said before, I recently discovered Hari's reporting and I find the facts he mentiones, not made up at all. Its covered by other broadcasters as well and undercover video in Dubai. Plausible.

The way he 'amuses' us with his style of writing, is something that is his 'marketing' approach. I read between that kind of amusement. Doesn't add to my facts that I know off. I won't buy anything a journalists says without me reading some additional sources.

Having said that, I still find Hari's articles worth the read. They read easily, based on facts with a little drama to it that you must separate. But it gets you going and that is what this reporter is about. He's not writing a dull article just to bore everyone now is he? He wants to touch feelings. He expresses his opinion. You don't have to agree! I don't agree either perhaps in some articles. But overall, I find this guy really good.

I'm not going to argument about all those different articles you sent me. I did scan them, but I don't know the facts behind it. I just judge what I know about this stuff he writes recently and share you my opinion in that. Perhaps I clobber his ass in the future when he makes another mistake like supporting the war in Iraq.

You and I make mistakes don't we? I say, he's human too. But one hell of a writer.

RobbyG wrote:

Speedhump wrote:Robby,

I should have said, your comments mostly make sense, as usual.

(edit:)Except 'Other way around, its good for those pirates to make their point and get their country back in the media, since all of this would otherwise be ignored, and now its TOP news around the globe. Talking about the good use of media, again!!!'

Use of violence (ETA, IRA, 7/11, etc) is valid to get media attention? They now are threatening to kill US civilians. Surely that shows their true colours to you now?
(/edit)

I wasn't attacking you mate, you know that. But it drives me crazy the way that people say that Hari is an objective journalist. He is the exact opposite. Even valid topics take the tone of a fanatical rant when he has pen in hand, and he often damages the subjects he touches. But he gets his spotlight which is what he really wants more than anything.

I understand what your saying. Like I said before, I recently discovered Hari's reporting and I find the facts he mentiones, not made up at all. Its covered by other broadcasters as well and undercover video in Dubai. Plausible.

The way he 'amuses' us with his style of writing, is something that is his 'marketing' approach. I read between that kind of amusement. Doesn't add to my facts that I know off. I won't buy anything a journalists says without me reading some additional sources.

Having said that, I still find Hari's articles worth the read. They read easily, based on facts with a little drama to it that you must separate. But it gets you going and that is what this reporter is about. He's not writing a dull article just to bore everyone now is he? He wants to touch feelings. He expresses his opinion. You don't have to agree! I don't agree either perhaps in some articles. But overall, I find this guy really good.

I'm not going to argument about all those different articles you sent me. I did scan them, but I don't know the facts behind it. I just judge what I know about this stuff he writes recently and share you my opinion in that. Perhaps I clobber his a#s in the future when he makes another mistake like supporting the war in Iraq.

You and I make mistakes don't we? I say, he's human too. But one hell of a writer.

Well supposedly serious political journalists shouldn't be in the marketing business they should be in the truth business (and not the HALF truth business).

Anyway, we have to agree to differ!

Del wrote:In 1991, the government of Somalia collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since – and the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas.

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.

No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters but did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our toxic waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome?

This is the context in which the "pirates" have emerged. Somalian fishermen took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least levy a "tax" on them.


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 25817.html

So are you justifying the actions being taken by the pirates?

sage & onion wrote:

Del wrote:In 1991, the government of Somalia collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since – and the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas.

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.

No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters but did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our toxic waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome?

This is the context in which the "pirates" have emerged. Somalian fishermen took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least levy a "tax" on them.


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 25817.html

So are you justifying the actions being taken by the pirates?

The pirates? Definitely not.
The fishermen and other locals who want something done about their polluted coastline, yes.

Del wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

Del wrote:In 1991, the government of Somalia collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since – and the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas.

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.

No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters but did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our toxic waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome?

This is the context in which the "pirates" have emerged. Somalian fishermen took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least levy a "tax" on them.


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 25817.html

So are you justifying the actions being taken by the pirates?

The pirates? Definitely not.
The fishermen and other locals who want something done about their polluted coastline, yes.

I would imagine it is far more complicated than you are stating, the fishermen probably sold the area.

sage & onion wrote:

Del wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

Del wrote:In 1991, the government of Somalia collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since – and the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas.

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.

No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters but did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our toxic waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome?

This is the context in which the "pirates" have emerged. Somalian fishermen took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least levy a "tax" on them.


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 25817.html

So are you justifying the actions being taken by the pirates?

The pirates? Definitely not.
The fishermen and other locals who want something done about their polluted coastline, yes.

I would imagine it is far more complicated than you are stating, the fishermen probably sold the area.

More likely 'government' bods who have since moved on.

Del wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

Del wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

Del wrote:In 1991, the government of Somalia collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since – and the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas.

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.

No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters but did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our toxic waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome?

This is the context in which the "pirates" have emerged. Somalian fishermen took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least levy a "tax" on them.


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 25817.html

So are you justifying the actions being taken by the pirates?

The pirates? Definitely not.
The fishermen and other locals who want something done about their polluted coastline, yes.

I would imagine it is far more complicated than you are stating, the fishermen probably sold the area.

More likely 'government' bods who have since moved on.

Possibly, but Somalian Government Bods for sure.

sage & onion wrote:

Del wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

Del wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

Del wrote:In 1991, the government of Somalia collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since – and the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas.

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.

No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters but did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our toxic waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome?

This is the context in which the "pirates" have emerged. Somalian fishermen took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least levy a "tax" on them.


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 25817.html

So are you justifying the actions being taken by the pirates?

The pirates? Definitely not.
The fishermen and other locals who want something done about their polluted coastline, yes.

I would imagine it is far more complicated than you are stating, the fishermen probably sold the area.

More likely 'government' bods who have since moved on.

Possibly, but Somalian Government Bods for sure.

OK.

Bearing in mind corrupt bastards feel at home with likeminded individuals, do you think the Italian Mafia-connected toxic waste dumpers admitted to the Somalian money-grabbing 'officials' that some of the barrels are radioactive?
Or do you think they told them something like, 'it's harmless vegetation, nothing to worry about, here's some money'?

Why is the text so black. My eyes hurt

RobbyG wrote:Why is the text so black. My eyes hurt

Edited for your optical comfort.

Del wrote:

RobbyG wrote:Why is the text so black. My eyes hurt

Edited for your optical comfort.

Such a cooperative lady.

Del wrote:
OK.

Bearing in mind corrupt bastards feel at home with likeminded individuals, do you think the Italian Mafia-connected toxic waste dumpers admitted to the Somalian money-grabbing 'officials' that some of the barrels are radioactive?
Or do you think they told them something like, 'it's harmless vegetation, nothing to worry about, here's some money'?

Well, personally now all I hear is 'blah blah...do you think...what if....maybe...it might be that....'.

In other words you're just prolonging this discussion that started about facts, by waffling about what you think might have been said by someone to someone else, and what they might have said back, etc. etc., without any reason at all to surmise it.

Now THAT's a waste of breath; more than anything else that has been said so far by any of us including me, and is a bloody good reason to close this thread about 'lies that were never told 'right now so funny...

Del wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

Del wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

Del wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

Del wrote:In 1991, the government of Somalia collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since – and the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas.

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.

No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters but did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our toxic waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome?

This is the context in which the "pirates" have emerged. Somalian fishermen took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least levy a "tax" on them.


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 25817.html

So are you justifying the actions being taken by the pirates?

The pirates? Definitely not.
The fishermen and other locals who want something done about their polluted coastline, yes.

I would imagine it is far more complicated than you are stating, the fishermen probably sold the area.

More likely 'government' bods who have since moved on.

Possibly, but Somalian Government Bods for sure.

OK.

Bearing in mind corrupt bastards feel at home with likeminded individuals, do you think the Italian Mafia-connected toxic waste dumpers admitted to the Somalian money-grabbing 'officials' that some of the barrels are radioactive?
Or do you think they told them something like, 'it's harmless vegetation, nothing to worry about, here's some money'?

I would suggest that they could care less as long as they got money.

this report was written four years ago by the UN but nothing was done all this time....as usual.
Can you really blame them for turning into pirates???

UN: Nuclear Waste Being Released on Somalia's Shores After Tsunami

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Cathy Majtenyi

VOA News
Feb 23, 2005


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


NAIROBI - A United Nations report released this week says nuclear and hazardous wastes dumped on Somalia's shores had been scattered by the recent Asian tsunami and are now infecting Somalis in coastal areas.
A spokesman for the United Nations Environment Program (UNEP), Nick Nuttall, told VOA that for the past 15 years or so, European companies and others have used Somalia as a dumping ground for a wide array of nuclear and hazardous wastes.

"There's uranium radioactive waste, there's leads, there's heavy metals like cadmium and mercury, there's industrial wastes, and there's hospital wastes, chemical wastes, you name it,” he said. “It's not rocket science to know why they're doing it because of the instability there."

Mr. Nuttall said, on average, it cost European companies $2.50 per ton to dump the wastes on Somalia's beaches rather than $250 a ton to dispose of the wastes in Europe.

He said the Asian tsunami dislodged and smashed open the drums, barrels, and other containers, spreading the contaminants as far away as 10 or more kilometers inland.

Mr. Nuttall said it is impossible to know the exact tonnage or number of containers of wastes on Somalia's shores, but that the problem, in his words, "is very serious."

The results of the contamination on coastal populations, Mr. Nuttall says, have been disastrous.

"These problems range from acute respiratory infections to dry, heavy coughing, mouth bleedings, abdominal hemorrhages, what they described as unusual skin chemical reactions,” he noted. “So there's a whole variety of ailments that people are reporting from these villages where we had a chance to look. We need to go much further and farther in finding out the real scale of this problem."

The tsunami's effects on Somalia were detailed in a report the United Nations Environment Program released this week at its governing council meeting in the Kenyan capital Nairobi.

The report described the effects of the late-December tsunami, which killed up to 300,000 people in 11 countries. It says the massive waves dislodged hazardous materials in countries throughout the region and recommended that governments preserve natural resources and restrict or ban development in vulnerable areas.

According to the report, hazardous wastes in Somalia have also contaminated some groundwater areas there.

The dumping of hazardous and nuclear wastes onto Somalia's coastline is a long-running concern. In a media report last year, Somali fisherman said they saw foreign vessels dropping containers onto the beach and pollution into the waters.

Somali officials said the country was vulnerable to illegal dumping, as Africa's longest coastline is not patrolled and the country has no coast guards, or health officials and facilities to test whatever is inside the containers.

Until late last year, Somalia had been without an effective central government since 1991, when then-leader Siad Barre was ousted. The new transitional government is in the process of moving to the capital Mogadishu from its current base in Kenya.

It is a disgrace for sure. The U.N. are toothless.

Anyway, it seems that the world media (including the Times as Del pointed out) has been advising us of this for years. But it seems none of us has bothered to get steamed up about it until Somalis started taking illegal action.

However under international law anyone that boards a ship illegally (including being in contravention of their OWN government) with a vew to taking it is a pirate. It's pure and simple and there's no argument. It happens all over the world, Nigeria and Malaysia are good examples of hotspots. Piracy is rife!

Sickhump, stop acting cute you're not a girl.

I'm not a girl, well done. Explain yourself?

I don't need to explain myself. Your trash post is self-explanatory.

a trash post? you really are mental.

Speedhump wrote:a trash post? you really are mental.

SH, you are probably following those same guidelines

I don't get half as stroppy as you can kiddo

At least I got my facts straight

well..says you

well..says you

Stop the lagging and the nagging.

You don't have facts, thats why you have a Camel and a hump to hold on to everyday

shut up Robby you like your facts Johann Hari style, either false or exaggerated, but in big screaming pink letters so you can read them easily

Speedhump wrote:shut up Robby you like your facts Johann Hari style, either false or exaggerated, but in big screaming pink letters so you can read them easily

Now you start offending me by having Hari style?

I have my own style son. Its beating your a$$ pretty hard I feel from your replies