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Tell Bora not to worry about puking, it's the other end that you need to keep a tight rein on....

damn, did we just trash ANOTHER thread....? oh, no, it was chocs that started talking about cabin crew being evil.......

Better the thread than me. You can get away with that only once!!!

Bora Bora wrote:Better the thread than me. You can get away with that only once!!!

Sorry if you stood in my way.

Bora Bora wrote:Better the thread than me. You can get away with that only once!!!

I took the 'queue here' sign down already...it's you that's missing out hun...

RobbyG wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:Better the thread than me. You can get away with that only once!!!

Sorry if you stood in my way.

Well next time I'll let you take the lead.

Bora Bora wrote:

RobbyG wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:Better the thread than me. You can get away with that only once!!!

Sorry if you stood in my way.

Well next time I'll let you take the lead.

With blood coming out my back end... Only if you realllly want to hon

RobbyG wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:

RobbyG wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:Better the thread than me. You can get away with that only once!!!

Sorry if you stood in my way.

Well next time I'll let you take the lead.

With blood coming out my back end... Only if you realllly want to hon

Wear your adult nappies.

Only if the stewardesses keep drippin' my coffee. Then I'll think about wearing my nappies.

I love Emirates, planning to fly with them out to Dubai. Business Class Can't wait.

Speedhump wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:Better the thread than me. You can get away with that only once!!!

I took the 'queue here' sign down already...it's you that's missing out hun...

Riiiiiiight!!!! Are you holding it over your head now???

Chocoholic wrote:The two ops pilots, who look after take off and landing, got their weight figures wrong, so obviously as they're going down the runway, the plane is alot heavier than they calculated.

How could they make a huge discrepancy? This hypothesis is Ok for a freighter where payload could differ very much case to case but it's a passenger aircraft...

Red Chief wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:The two ops pilots, who look after take off and landing, got their weight figures wrong, so obviously as they're going down the runway, the plane is alot heavier than they calculated.

How could they make a huge discrepancy? This hypothesis is Ok for a freighter where payload could differ very much case to case but it's a passenger aircraft...

Nooooo, absolutely unacceptable Chief.

As you might know, I myself am aeronautical engineer and worked with combi and full freighters for DHL. Every pallet and cargo container is measured (weight and volume) and put in a computer system that provides the cargo planning department with all data for determining the best load configuration for that particular aircraft type.
The system keeps in account the limits of the aircraft flight envelope for save operational performance and stability in all weather circumstances. This results in a load sheet that is signed by the responsible ground engineer/authority and passed on to the captain for his final check for approval.

The weight and balance systems of today always indicate whether are load configuration is acceptable for that aircraft. These systems don't accept wrong planning unless you select the wrong aircraft type for planning!

But the captain remains the one that has the final decision and check of fuel load, taxi fuel load, cargo payload, passenger load, etc. etc. They have the final responsibility for a safe departure. A technical failure however is not their responsibility. Thats why technicians and engineers are just as important for a company as its pilots. Unfortunately not always (financially) recognised of their importance. The engineers have the signoff capability for technical flight safety. Both parties can be hold accountable for neglect or irresponsible behaviour under law. Thats why they get paid the reasonable amount of money to stay awake while doing their jobs. There are lives at stake.

Having said that. Flying is the safest way of travel because of the rules and regulations involved for safety. If something happens its either a human error (most common) or bad engineering (design/maintenance error).

People (human factor) remain the weakest link in most cases.

So, what is your point for passenger aircraft where load is much more stable? Even you and me can estimate the weight with error of measurement 10%...

Red Chief wrote:So, what is your point for passenger aircraft where load is much more stable? Even you and me can estimate the weight with error of measurement 10%...

10 percent error is the difference between life and dead Chief!
If you have 40 pallet positions on a B747, with an average weight of 3 tons, thats 120 tons of cargo. If you plan that 10% (12 tons) in the nose of that aircraft type (B747-400) then you have a real balance problem relatively to the CG (centre of gravity) on the wing position. It can result in an uncontrollable aicraft or a nose that doesn't wanna come up while rotating!

That probably didn't happen here, since it was able to take off and land again without crashing, but it might be of a lesser error that influence the flight characteristics of the A340 aircraft type.

Its all speculation until the investigation (internal, since it was no accident) is completed. And we will never know about the cause of it, unless Chocs family tell us on this forum what the conclusions were, eventually.

edit: to answer your question;
Passenger aircraft have slightly more margins since the weight of the passenger is not measured. They take an average of your body weight. That gives an error, but can be handled by modern load planning systems. They spread the baggageload and the belly ld3 containers near the wing positions (CG) and a few obese people more or less is normally not an issue. But if you put 100 obese all next to eachother in the back of an aircraft, you also can induce a tailslide

Bora Bora wrote:

RobbyG wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:

RobbyG wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:Better the thread than me. You can get away with that only once!!!

Sorry if you stood in my way.

Well next time I'll let you take the lead.

With blood coming out my back end... Only if you realllly want to hon

Wear your adult nappies.

Cannot hold myself... Well BB..

Anosh wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:

RobbyG wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:

RobbyG wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:Better the thread than me. You can get away with that only once!!!

Sorry if you stood in my way.

Well next time I'll let you take the lead.

With blood coming out my back end... Only if you realllly want to hon

Wear your adult nappies.

Cannot hold myself... Well BB..

Anosh, know your place newbie. You are at the end of the line and its all coming at YOU!!!

Bora Bora wrote:

Anosh wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:

RobbyG wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:

RobbyG wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:Better the thread than me. You can get away with that only once!!!

Sorry if you stood in my way.

Well next time I'll let you take the lead.

With blood coming out my back end... Only if you realllly want to hon

Wear your adult nappies.

Cannot hold myself... Well BB..

Anosh, know your place newbie. You are at the end of the line and its all coming at YOU!!!

You have a good mind.

So an Emirates plane nearly crashed ?
The tail hit the ground....which it bashed!!
The weight was much more,
So the tail hit the floor,
Now the pilots' careers are just dashed!!

Well nice to see a bit of Aircraft Banter... Also nice to know a lot of people exchange info like this.. Emirates would not be happy seein the details of this leaked out as I think theyve been quite tight lipped about it. A340-500 reg A6-ERG.. pics are all over the net chk out PPRUNE.ORG
Its sad though cos Ive certified that aircraft after quite a few checks .... remains to see whats profitable repair and risk a crash 15 years from now or claim insurance and get rid of one plane. I think logically theyd prefer the insurance cos theyve got brand new planes comin in every month and theyve cut lots of flights now..courtesy recession ..

erm you think?

They've already grounded two of the A380's due to low passenger loads, and they have another 50 or so on order.

Abu Dhabi has had to bail out Emirates, they'll tell you that AD took a 51% share, but really it's now 100% owned by Abu Dhabi. They refuse to reduce the rates to be competitive, I wonder how long it can last.

Chocoholic wrote:erm you think?

They've already grounded two of the A380's due to low passenger loads, and they have another 50 or so on order.

Abu Dhabi has had to bail out Emirates, they'll tell you that AD took a 51% share, but really it's now 100% owned by Abu Dhabi. They refuse to reduce the rates to be competitive, I wonder how long it can last.

Chocs, whats the deal with not wanting to lower their rates to be competitive?

That wouldn't be a faceloss in Dubai, or would it?

RobbyG wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:erm you think?

They've already grounded two of the A380's due to low passenger loads, and they have another 50 or so on order.

Abu Dhabi has had to bail out Emirates, they'll tell you that AD took a 51% share, but really it's now 100% owned by Abu Dhabi. They refuse to reduce the rates to be competitive, I wonder how long it can last.

Chocs, whats the deal with not wanting to lower their rates to be competitive?

That wouldn't be a faceloss in Dubai, or would it?

Schools still say they have waiting lists, health/leisure clubs still say they have waiting lists. Their prices are all higher this year too. Luxury cars also seem not to have come down.

Either not so many people are leaving as the panic suggested, or Dubai is still in massive denial, or the Gulf isn't in the bad state it has been said....

Place your bets, the wheel will stop spinning soon.....

Speedhump wrote:

RobbyG wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:erm you think?

They've already grounded two of the A380's due to low passenger loads, and they have another 50 or so on order.

Abu Dhabi has had to bail out Emirates, they'll tell you that AD took a 51% share, but really it's now 100% owned by Abu Dhabi. They refuse to reduce the rates to be competitive, I wonder how long it can last.

Chocs, whats the deal with not wanting to lower their rates to be competitive?

That wouldn't be a faceloss in Dubai, or would it?

Schools still say they have waiting lists, health/leisure clubs still say they have waiting lists. Their prices are all higher this year too. Luxury cars also seem not to have come down.

Either not so many people are leaving as the panic suggested, or Dubai is still in massive denial, or the Gulf isn't in the bad state it has been said....

Place your bets, the wheel will stop spinning soon.....

Dubai cargo statistics were up this first quarter in comparison with first quarter of 2008. So its seems nothing is wrong...

Where our Sjarjah airport guy!?

RobbyG wrote:Dubai cargo statistics were up this first quarter in comparison with first quarter of 2008. So its seems nothing is wrong...

Where our Sjarjah airport guy!?

That's been my opinion. Which is why, when anyone has been asking me 'should I stay or should I go', I've been saying if you have 6 months living expenses in the bank and can still afford to bail after that, hang on and see.

If the mood lifts in Q3 of this year the people who stayed will be the ones to benefit.

Speedhump wrote:

RobbyG wrote:Dubai cargo statistics were up this first quarter in comparison with first quarter of 2008. So its seems nothing is wrong...

Where our Sjarjah airport guy!?

That's been my opinion. Which is why, when anyone has been asking me 'should I stay or should I go', I've been saying if you have 6 months living expenses in the bank and can still afford to bail after that, hang on and see.

If the mood lifts in Q3 of this year the people who stayed will be the ones to benefit.

Was it you that worked in the cargo industry at Sjarjah Airport?

I must be getting senile....

haha noooo.....

my income for the last 3 months is back to 2007 levels, which let's face it, isn't too bad. last year was an incredible year. I thought it was too good to last!!

Speedhump wrote:haha noooo.....

my income for the last 3 months is back to 2007 levels, which let's face it, isn't too bad. last year was an incredible year. I thought it was too good to last!!

Are you self employed SH>? Cause why is your income variable?

Is that outgoing or incoming cargo though?

Chocoholic wrote:Is that outgoing or incoming cargo though?

total throughput. Both import and export.

RobbyG wrote:

Speedhump wrote:haha noooo.....

my income for the last 3 months is back to 2007 levels, which let's face it, isn't too bad. last year was an incredible year. I thought it was too good to last!!

Are you self employed SH>? Cause why is your income variable?

Practically. I do have an umbrella organization over me but I'm gone upriver like Colonel Kurtz (Apocalypse Now), they just leave me alone and I send the money